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Full text of "Bolshevik propaganda. Hearings before a subcommittee of the Committee on the judiciary, United States Senate, Sixty-fifth Congress, third session and thereafter, pursuant to S. Res. 439 and 469. February 11, 1919, to March 10, 1919"

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Bolshevik propaganda. 


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S. RES. 439 AND 469 

FEBRUARY 11, 1919, TO MARCH 10, 1919 

Printed for the use of the Committee oh the Judiciary 

:!JI i'! 






CHAELES A. CULBERSON, Texas, dmirman. 
LEE S. OVERMAN, North Carolina. KNUTE NELSON, Minnesota. 


JAMES A. REED, Missouri. FRANK B. BRANDEGEE, Connecticut. 




HOKE SMITH, Georgia. LeBARON B. COLT, Rhode Island. 



C. W. JUKNEY, Clerk. 

F. C. Edwaeds, Assistant Clerk. 


Mr. OVERMAN, Chair-man. 




Text of resolution authorizing hearings 6 

Excerpts from testimony of Thomas J. Tunney in German propaganda 

hearings 6 

Excerpts from testimony of Arclilbald E. Stevenson in German prop- 
aganda hearings 11 

Testimony of William Chapin Huntington 36, 67 

Testimony of Samuel N. Harper 88 

Testimony of George A. Simons 109, 141 

Testimony of E. B. Dennis 163 

Testimony of Robert F. Leonard 194, 199 

^Testimony of Robert M. Storey 229 

Testimony in executive session 235 

Testimony of Mrs. Catherine Breshkovskaya 241 

Testimony of Rogers Smith 252 

Testimony of 'William W. Welsh 264, 267 

Testimony of Roger E. Simmons 293, 308, 339 

Letter from Louis Marshall, president American Jewish Committee 378 

Statement by Simon AVolf 381 

Testimony of Herman Bernstein 383 

Testimony of Theodor Kryshtofovich 417 

Testimony of Col. Y. S. Hurbau 434, 447 

Testimony of Carl W. Ackerman 462 

Testimony of Louise Bryant (Mrs. John Reed) . 466 

Testimony of John Reed 561 

Testimony of Albert Rhys Williams 603, 649 

Text of resolution extending hearings 693 

Testimony of Bessie Beatty B93 

Testimony of Frank Keddie 723 

Testimony of Raymond Robins 763, 857, 1007 

Testimony of Gregor A. Martiuszlne 896 

Testimony of Frederick H. Hatzel 922 

Statement of Col. V. S. Hurban 921 

Testimony of Oliver M. Sayler 933 

Testimony of David R. Francis 935 

Letter and statement from Catherine Breshkovskaya 1032 

Matters submitted by Edwin Lowry Humes 1034 

Documents submitted l)y Senator Sterling 1101 

Matters submitted by the Postmaster General 1110 

Excerpt from " The German-Bolshevik Conspiracy " 1125 

Text of Bolshevik constitution of July 10, 1918 1159 

Appendix, translation of Bolshevik laws 1169 



TUESDAY, rEBBtlABT 11, 1919. 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee of the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington, D. C. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to the call of the chairman, at 
10.30 o'clock a. m., in room No. 226, Senate Office Building, Senator 
Lee S. Overman presiding. 

Present': Senators Overman (chairman). King, Wolcott, Nelson, 
and Sterling. 

The subcommittee had on February 11, 1919, concluded hearings, 
held under Senate resolution 307, on the subjects of pro-German 
propaganda and activities of the United States -Brevpers' Association 
and its allied interests' in the liquor business,, which were published in 
two volumes (2,975 pages) entitled "Brewing and Liquor Interests 
and German Propaganda." Senate resolution 307 was passed by the 
Senate on September 19, 1918, and is as follows : 

Whereas Honorable A. Mitchell Palmer, Custodian of Allen Property, on or about 
September fourteenth made the following statement : 

" The facts will soon ajipear which will conclusively show that twelve or 
fifteen German brewers of America, in association with the United States 
Brewers' Association, furnished the money, amounting to several hundred 
thousand dollars, to buy a great newspaper in one of the chief cities of the, 
ISTation ; and its publisher, without disclosing whose money had bought that 
organ of public opinion, in the very Capital of the Nation, in the shadow of 
the Capitol itself, has been fighting the battle of the liquor traffic. 

" When the traffic, doomed though it is, undertakes and seeks by these secret 
methods to control party nominations, party machinery, whole political 
parties, and thereby control the government of State and Nation, it is time the 
people know the truth. 

" The organized liquor traffic of the country is a vicious interest because 
it has been unpatriotic, because it has been pro-German in its sympathies and 
Its conduct. Around these great brewery organizations owned by rich men, 
almost all of them are of German birth and sympathy, at least before we 
entered the war, has grown up the societies, all the organizations of this 
country intended to keep young German immigrants from becoming real 
American citizens. 

" It is around the sangerfests and sangerbunds and organizations of that 
kind, generally financed by the rich brewers, that the young Germans who 
come to America are taught to remember, first, the fatherland, and second, 
America " ; 

Whereas it has been publicly and repeatedly charged against the United States 
Brewers' Association and allied brewing companies and interests that there 
is in the Department of Justice and in the office of a certain United States 
district attorney evidence showing: 

That, the said United States Brewers' Association, brewing companies, and 
allied interests have in recent years made contributions to political cam- 
paigns on a scale without precedent in the political history of the country 
and in violation of the laws of the land; 

That, in order to control legislation in State and Nation they have exacted 
pledges from candidates to office, including Congressmen and United States 
Senators, before election, such pledges being on file ; 



That, in order to influence public opinion to their ends they have heavily- 
subsidized the public press and stipulated when contracting for advertising 
space with the newspapers that a certain amount be editorial space, the 
literary material for the space being provided from the brewers' central 
office in New York ; 

That, in order to suppress expressions of opinion hostile to their trade and 
political interests, they have set in operation an extensive system of boycot- 
ting of American manufacturers, merchants, railroads, and other interests ; 

That, for the furthering of their political enterprises, they have erected a 
political organization to carry out their purposes ; 

That they were allied to powerful suborganizations, among them the 
German-American Alliance, whose charter was revoked by the unanimous 
vote of Congress ; the National Association of Commerce and Labor ; and the 
JIanufacturers and Dealers' Associations, and that tliey ha^e their ramifica- 
tions in other organizations apparently neutral in character ; 

That they have on file political surveys of States, counties, and districts 
tabulating the men and forces for and against them, and that they have 
paid large sums of money to citizens of the United States to advocate their 
cause and interests, including some in the Government employ ; 

That they have defrauded the Federal Government by applying to their 
political corruption funds money which should have gone to the Federal 
Treasury in taxes ; 

That they are attempting to build up in the country through the control of 
such organizations as the United States societies and by the manipulation of 
the foreign language press, a political influence which can be turned to one 
or the other party, thus controlling electoral results ; 

That they, or some of their organizations, have pleaded nolo contendere to 
charges filed against them and have paid fines aggregating large sums of 
money : Therefore, be it 

Resolved, That the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate, or any subcom- 
mittee thereof, is hereby authorized and directed to call upon the Honorable 
A. Mitchell Palmer, Alien Property Custodian, and the Department of Justice 
and its United States district attorneys to produce the evidence and documents 
relating to the eharses herein mentioned, and to subpoena any witnesses or 
documents relating thereto that it may find necessary, and to make a report of 
the results of such investigation and what is shown thereby to the Senate of the 
United States as promptly as possible. 

The present hearings are held under the following resolution 
(S. Ees. 439) passed by the Senate on February 4, 1919 : 

Resolved, That the authority of the Committee on the Judiciary conferred by 
S. Res. 307 be, and the same hereby is, extended so as to include the power and 
duty to inquire concerning any efforts being made to propagate in this country 
the principles of any party exercising or claiming to exercise authority in 
Russia, whether such efforts originate in this country or are incited or financed 
from abroad, and, further, to inquire into any effort to incite the overthrow of 
the Government of this country or all government by force, or by the destruc- 
tion of life or property, or the general cessation of industry. 

Maj. Edwin Lowry Humes, of the Judge Advocate General's 
Department, United States Army, detailed by the "War Department 
to assist the subcommittee in the hearings held under Senate resolu- 
tion 307, appeared as counsel for the subcommittee in the present 

(The following excerpts from the testimony of Mr. Thomas J. 
Tunney, an inspector of police, police department New York City, 
before this subcommittee on Tuesday, January 21, 1919, pages 2679- 
2681 and 2684-2687 of Volume II of the hearings entitled " Brewing 
and Liquor Interests and German Propaganda," were ordered in- 
serted in this record at this point :) 

Mr. TuNNET. * * * We apprehended and secured evidence against Emma 
Goldman and Alexander Berkman, and they were subsequently convicted for 
trying to defeat the selective-draft act. 


Senator Overman. Did you find a list of those people? . 

Mr. TuNNEY. Yes; we found this original letter that was used in the testi- 
mony in the Hindu case in San Francisco, and was also used against Emma 
Goldman and Alexander Berkman in the trial in New York. 

Senator Oveeman. Where is Emma Goldman now? 

Mr. TuNNET. She is in prison at Jefferson City, Mo. 

Senator Nelson. In a safe place? 

Mr. TuNNEY. Yes. She was ordered by the trial judge to be deported after 
her term expires — both she and Berkman. 

Senator Overman. What Is her native country? 

Mr. TuNNEY. I think she is a native of Russia. 

Senator Overman. She is ordered by the court to be deported after her term 
is up? 

Mr. TuNNEY. Yes; that was ordered by the trial judge with regard to both 
Emma Goldman and Alexander Berkman. There was some doubt as to whether 
she was married to an American citizen or not. 

Senator Overman. What age woman is she? 

Mr. TuNNEY. She is a woman about 46 years of age ; a very able and Intelli- 
gent woman and a very fine speaker. 

Senator Overman. I know something about her, of course. How long has 
she been in this country? 

Mr. TuNNEY. Nearly 30 years. 

Senator Overman. She is a fine speaker, you say? 

Mr. TuNNEY. Yes ; she is a very fine speaker. 

Senator Nelson. She speaks good English? 

Jlr. TuNNEY. She speaks English very fluently. In fact, I have heard news- 
paper men say that she is a master of the English language. She and Berkman 
defended themselves on their trial, and they put in a very able defense, and 
their cross-examination of the prospective jurors was particularly noticeable. 

Senator Overman. Is she a handsome woman? 

Mr. TuNNEY. No ; she is not. I would not call her a very homely looking 
woman, either. She was a rather good-looking woman when she was young. 
She is a very stout woman. 

Leon Trotsky, before he left New York, was a great associate of Emma Gold- 
man and Alexander Berkman. 

Senator Overman. That is the Russian leader? 

Mr. TuNNEY. Yes. 

He called a meeting of the German socialists and Russians at the Harlem 
River Park Casino, at One hundred and twenty-second Street and Second 
Avenue, on the night of March 26, 1917, after the breaking oJ¥ of the diplomatic 
relations between the United States and Germany, and he spoke in both German 
and Russian that night, and this was the substance of his speech. 

Senator Sterling. Who is that? 

Mr. TuNNEY. Leon Trotsky. 

Senator Overman. The foreign minister of the Bolsheviki. 

Mr. Tunney. He said : " I am going back to Russia " — he was going the next 
morning with about 35 or 40 of his associates, the names of whom, I believe, 
the Military Intelligence has. There was a report submitted to Gen. Churchill, 
and previous to that to Col. Van Deman. He said : 

" I am going back to Russia to overthrow the provisional government and 
stop the war with Germany and allow no Interference from any outside govern- 

And he said : 

" I want you people here to organize and keep on organizing until you are 
able to overthrow this damned, rotten, capitalistic Government of this country." 

He did leave the next morning, with his followers, on the Norwegian- 
American Line ; and from that date until June 1 about 450 Russians left, with 
various leaders, and they also went back there to roast the American commis- 
sion that was over there at that time. 

Two of the men who are now in the government over there were connected 
with newspaper publications in New York. One of them was named William 
Schatoff, and is commissioner of railroads. 

Senator Nelson. Commissioner of railroads where? 

Mr. Tunney. In Russia, now. Also, I understand, he is the new executioner 
there in the place of Uritski, who was assassinated by a woman some time ago 
in St. Petersburg. 


There were some American boys coming out of St. Petersburg, and one of 
them told me that he came up to them and spoke English to them, and said to 
give his regards to Broadway, and had the train go back to St. Petersburg, 
and kept them there until the next morning. 

The other fellow, Wallen, was connected with the publications Novymlr and 
Golatruda, Russian publications. 

Senator NELS0^^ Russian publications in this country? 

Mr. TuNNET. Yes. 

Senator Sterling. Who else, may I ask. Inspector, accompanied Trotsky at 
this time? 

Mr. TuNNEY, I can not tell you the names. Senator, but the Military Intelli- 
gence has a complete list of them, or a copy of them. I can get a copy if they 
have not, from New York. 

Senator Steeling. Did Lincoln Steffens accompany them? 

Mr. TuNNET. No ; no Americans accompanied them at that time. They were 
all Russians, but they were well-known anarchists, well known to some of my 

Senator Overman. I wish you would repeat the statement that Trotsky made 
to them before lie left this country. 

Mr. Tunnet. He said to keep on their organization here and they would 
overthrow the Government of this country. 

Senator Nelson. And knock out the capitalists? 

Mr. TuNNEY. Yes. He called It the " damned, rotten, capitalistic Govern- 
ment.'' Those are the words that he used. 

Senator Overman. Capitalistic Government? 

Mr. TuNNEY. Yes. 

Senator Ovekman. Do you know whether they followed his ad\ice, or whether 
they are going on with that work? 

Mr. TuNNEY^. Yes. I would not say that it is very effective, but that is Ihe 
talk amongst a lot of the same folloAvers now, sometimes in public and some- 
times in secret conferences that they have. 

Senator Nelson. You have a nest of those anarchists yet in New York, have 
you not? 

Sir. TuNNEY. Yes, Senator ; there are a lot of them there yet. I might say 
that five of them were, subsequent to the conviction of Emma Goldman and 
Alexander Berkman, apprehended for abusing the President and the Govern- 
ment of the United States, and in .Tune they were convicted of violating the 
espionage act ; and they were followers of Emma Goldman and were sentenced 
to 20 years apiece. That was .lust a few months ago. 

Senator Overman. What was Trotsky doing in this country before? 

Mr. TuNNEY. He was ahvays talking to the Russians on organization. He 
was connected with that ne^^•spape^ publication, the Novymir, and was very 
ofteH delivering lectures both to Russians and Germans on anarchy while he 
was here — radical socialism. He believed in the overthrow of all governments. 

Senator Nelson. He spoke German as well as Russian? 

Mr. TuNNEY. Yes; very fluently. 

Senator Nelson. What was his nationality? 

Mr. TuNNEY. He is a Russian. 

Senator Nelson. AVas he a Slav or a German? 

Mr. TuNNEY'. He is a Russian. 

Senator Nelson. A Russian? 

Mr. TuNNEY'. A Russian .Tew ; but they do not believe in any religion, of 
course. They are just as much opposed to the Jewish religion as any other. 
They call themselves " Internationalists." 

Senator Overman. Did he speak English as well as Russian and German? 

Mr. TuNNEY. He spoke very little English. 

Maj. Humes. You say that these followers of Emma Goldman and Alexander 
Berkman were convicted and sentenced to 20 years? 

Mr. TuNNEY. Yes. 

Maj. Humes. Do you remember what the sentence was that was imposed on 
Emnta Goldman and Berkman? 

Mr. TuNNEY. They were sentenced to two years each, which was the maxi- 
mum sentence under the law at that time, the espionage act not being at that 
time in effect. 

I also remember that the sentence imposed on the bomb plotters was a year 
and a half each, which was the maximum sentence under the law at that time ; 
and then it was a subterfuge to get to try them under that, because it was never 


intended for criminals, but for legitimate shippers of explosives — in other words, 
that they should notify the common carriers that they were shipping explosises 
and comply with the Federal laws on that subject. 

It * « 4; 3(( 4: * 

Maj. Humes. What do you know about activities, since the armistice, on the 
part of these people, the anarchists and others? 

Mr. TUNNEY. They are very active. They hold secret meetings and they plan 
to organize and disseminate propaganda by means of newspapers, small 
pamphlets, and letters, and later on adopt other methods, which they have not 
decided on up to the present time. 

Senator Stealing. Is there evidence of renewed activity ou the part of these 
anarchists, Mr. Tunney, since the armistice was signed? 

Mr. Tunney. There is. Senator ; there is evidence, but hardly sufficient to 
proceed against them up to the present time, with the right kind of witnesses. 
You sometimes get this information direct from a secret agent that you can not 
get him to testify to, because it takes years to get on the inside to find out cer- 
tain things. You destroy his evidence after you use it in one case, and probably 
jeopardize his life. Sometimes people think a man's life does not amount to 
much if he accomplishes a whole lot of good ; that is, a man is willing to give 
up his life for the cause of his country. 

Maj. Humes. Do you know anything about the activities of Lenine in this 

Mr. Tunney. No ; I never found any of Lenine's connection here, never ; but 
I do know about Trotsky and the other people. 

Senator Nelson. How old a man was Trotsky? 

Mr. TUiXNEY. I should judge Trotsky was a man, when he left here, of about 
35 years of age. 

Senator Nelson. What was his appearance? 

Mr. Tunney. He was a typical Russian ; black, bushy, curly hair, and very 
radical looking in appearance as well as in speech. 

Senator Nelson. 'Was he a tall man or a short man? 

Mr. Tunney. No ; he was of medium height. I should judge he was about 
5 feet 6 or 5 feet 7. 

Senator Overman. Was he employed In the hotels? 

Mr. Tunney. No. I have heard that story. He used to write articles and 
probably did take on different jobs. I think he used to write articles for various 
Russian newspapers here. 

Senator Overman. Did he have any other employment? 

Mr. Tunney. Not that I know of. 

Senator Overman. How long was he in this country? 

Mr. Tunney. He was only in New York for a few months before he left. 
He had traveled somewhat through the United States. What he did in the 
other cities I do not know. I know only what he did in New York. 

Senator Steeling. Did your activities lead you to investigate any newspapers 
in New York or anywhere else? 

Mr. Tunney. No ; no direct investigation. From time to time those foreign 
newspaper investigations were turned over to men who understood the language. 

Senator Nelson. Did you ever do anything in connection with Viereck's 
" Fatherland" ? 

Mr. Tunney. No ; I did not. 

Senator Overman. Who owns the paper now that Trotsky was connected 

Mr. Tunney. Weinstein is one of the editors, and a fellow by the name of 

Senator Overman. Really the same man thrt owned it when Trotsky 

Mr. Tunney. Weinstein was associated with Trotsky in running it at the 
time Trotsky was here. 

Senator Overman. And he is now running it? 

Mr. Tunney. Yes ; he is now running that paper. 

Senator Sterling. Did you at that time seize or take into j'our possession, Mr. 
Tunney, any material at newspaper offices which was meant for publication in 
newspapers of an anarchistic nature? 

Mr. Tunney. You mean in the American newspapers, Senator? 

Senator Sterling. Yes. 

Mr. Tunney. No ; I did not, with the exception of Emma Goldman's " Blother 
Earth," and tlie " Blast," which were published in-Englrnd — two anarchistic pub- 


lications. In fact, I never found any of the American or the English papers 
connected with this movement at all. 

Senator Nelson. Did Trotsky appear to be a man of education or ability? 
Mr. TuNNEY. That was his reputation among the Russian people who speak, that he was a man of ability among his own people, and quite a leader 
of men. 

Senator Steeling. Did you ever hear him speak, yourself? 
Mr. TUNNEY. I did not. Senator. I saw him, though. But this information, 
that I am testifying to, was by one of my o^^•n men, not a stool pigeon, but a 
policeman who secured this information that I have testified to, and upon 
which he based his reports at that time. That was turned over at that time 
to the Military Intelligence, shortly after he made his speech, and I think they 
turned it over to the State Department. That is on information, however. I do 
know Trotsky was taken nff the steamer at Halifax and detained for a couple 
of weeks. And while he was detained there people in New Y(]rk held a protest 
meeting and demanded his release, and I think they sent a telegram to the 
State Department in Washington at that time — some of the other radicals did — 
and some time subsequent to that he was released. 

Senator Overman. AVhat was the size of the meeting, do you remember, that 
made the protest ? 

Mr. TuNNEY. There were about 400 or 500 present. It was in a place called 
the Lyceum. 64 East Fourth Street. New York. It was in April, 1917. after the 
declaration of war. But there were over 1,000 present at the meeting the night 
before he sailed from New York, at the Harlem River Park Casino. Emma 
Goldman and Berkman were also present that nit;lit and listened to him speak, 
f'apt. Lester. Do yon know how long Trotsky was in this country altogether? 
Mr. Tt'NNEY. No : I know he was in New York only a few months. I do not 
know how long he was in this country altogether. 

Senator ()vee:man. Do you know who presided over that big meeting in which 
he made a speech? 

I\Ir. TUNNEY. ^Vho was the chairman, do you mean? 
Senator Ovekman. Yes. 

Mr. TuNNEY. I really do not know, but I think it was a man named Abra- 
hams, who was subsequently convicted and sentenced to prison for 20 years for 
violation of the espionage act. But I can find that out, I can get the names 
of those A^ho were there. 

Senator Overman. Did you have occasion to investigate the I. W. W. any? 
Mr. TuNKEY. Yes ; in the early part of the European war they were making 
a bomb to kill a couple of men here in the United States — three of the I. W. W's. 
who were also associated with the anarchistic movement. Those men were 
Carron. Berg, and Hanson. While making this bomb it prematurely exploded 
and killed themselves, in an apartment house. One hundred and fourth Street. 
It blew the front out of the building and killed the three of them, and killed 
a woman up on the next floor. I might add that this fellovir Berg had a sister 
known as Louise Berg, also referred to as " Dynamite Louise," who went back 
shortly after Trotsky, with one or the other Russian bunch, to blow up some 
of the officials in Russia. 

Senatoi- Overman. Berg was one of the three conspirators engaged in the 
manufactui-e of bombs? 

Mr. TuNNEY. Yes. There was a conspiracy to kill three prominent men in 
this country at one time, and as many thereafter as they could. 

Senator (Overman. Do you know who were the prominent men they had in 

Mr. TuNNEY. I do. 
Senator Overman. Who were they? 

Mr. TuNNEY. John D. Rockefeller, sr., and John D. Rockefeller, jr. It was 
also discussed amongst them at that time that in order to wipe out families 
there was no good in killing one or two in the family, that they should kill 
them all, even to the children, and they used to talk from that time that the 
best way to do it was to get servants in the employ of the households of these 
prominent men, so as to get a line exactly on what the family was composed 
of and what it consisted of. 

Senator Overman. Have you noticed the carrying of the red flag in New, 


Mr. TuNNEY. No ; they stopped carrying that. They passed a local ordinance 
prohibiting its being carried. They used to carry it at all meetings. 

Senator Overman. What effect does that red flag have on a crowd? 


Mr. TuNNEY. It has the effect of creating a feeling on the part of Americans 
that they would like to assassinate everybody carrying the red flag; or at 
least, a large number of them feel that way. 

Senator Overman. What effect does it have on the people who are in sym- 
pathy with carrying the red flag? 

Mr. Ttjnney. It simply enthuses them, and they indulge in cheering and , 
waviug it in the air. 

Senator Ovebman. It inflames them? 

Mr. TuNNEY. Yes; and all those who are in sympathy with (hem. As soon 
as the carrying of the red flag was stopped they started in to \Aear red neckties 
and sometimes red flowers in their button holes. 

Senator Nelson. Do you not think that the carrying of the red flag tends to 
promote breaches of the p'.>ace? 

Mr. TuNNEY. It does ; because it antagonizes Americans who are opposed to 
them, and naturally there is a conflict right away. Americans claim they only 
want one flag here, and th it is the Stars and Stripes. 

Seantor Steeling. The red flag is usually understood to be the emblem of 
anarchy ? 

Mr. TuNNEY. Yes ; it is the emblem of anarchy. They sometimes call it 
Internationalism. There are some modern Socialists who do not believe in the 
red flag. The radical Socialists do not believe in any form of government at 
all ; their motto is, " Do as you like," and everybody do the same ; they have no 
regard for law, and they do not believe in law. 

Senator Overman. One of their creeds is " Down with capital " ? 

Mr. TuNNEY. " Down with capital and Government." They claim capital is 
responsible for all government. They blame the churches for standing in their 
way. They sometimes say they would like to destroy the churches. I met a 
man one night some time ago who claimed the only way to destroy every build- 
ing was to blow it down with dynamite. There was another man present who 
said he did not believe in destroying buildings of ai't and science and where 
literature vras kept, but all other buildings he would destroy. He differed to 
that extent from the other fellow.. 

Senator Nelson. How many of those anarchists and those radicals, I. W. W.'s 
and anarchists, have you in New York? As nearly as you can tell, how many 
are there? 

Mr. Tunney. Do you mean. Senator, who belong to organizations or associ- 

Senator Nelson. No ; I mean that belong to such organizations or believe 
in that gospel. 

Senator Overman. Who sympathize with them. 

Senator Nelson. Yes ; who sympathize with them. 

Mr. Tunney. I believe there are 12,000 or 15,000 in New York. I mean those 
who sympathize with the real radical movement. I should say we probably 
have 50,000 who more or less sympathize with them. 

Senator Nelson. They are mostly foreigners, are they not? 

Mr. Tunney. Mostly foreigners. 

Senator Nelson. From what part of the old country? 

Mr. Tunney. The three principal nationalities that they represent are Rus- 
sians, Spaniards — I am talking now about the anarchist group — and the Italians, 
mixed up with some Germans. There are a few radical Irishmen and English- 
men and a few Americans. There are very few of these English-speaking people 
with the exception of — well, there is a very small percentage of them that mix 
up with the real anarchistic groups. 

Senator Nelson. Are there many Americans mixed up with them? 

Mr. Tunney. Very few. 

(The following excerpts from the testimony of Mr. Archibald E. 
Stevenson, in Volume II of the hearings before the same subcommit- 
tee entitled "Brewing and Liquor Interests and German Propa- 
ganda," were ordered inserted in this record:) 

[From testimony taken on Wednesaay, January 22, 1919, pages 2715, 2716, 2717, and 

Mr. Stevenson. * * * With the declaration of war by the United States 
the raison d'§tre for the Emergency Peace Federation and the American Neutral 
Conference CJommittee ceased to exist, and they became defunct. 

12 BOLSHEVIK pkopaga:sda. 

However, the movement continued to become more radical, and on August 
4, 1917, the I'eoplt's Council of America for Democracy and Peace was organ- 
ized, with offices at 2 AVest Thirteenth Street, New York City. 

Among the officers and executive committee are found Louis P. Lochner, 
Leila Faye Secor, Rebecca Shelley, Scott Xearing, Jacob Panken — who, by the 
way, is an extremely radical speaker, and a judge of the municipal court in New 
York City ; Aigern in Lee. socialist alderman, New York City ; 5Iax Eastman ; 
Emily Greene BaU h ; Judah L. Magnes ; Morris Hillquit ; Eugene V. Debs, who 
is now serving a sentence for violation of the espionage act ; Irving St. John 
Tucker, who was just convicted with Victor Berger for violation of the same 
act ; and the treasurer of tliis organization is David Starr Jordan. 

The advent of organization was hailed with enthusiasm by the German 
propagandists, and wide publicity was given to it in the German organs, such 
as Issues and Events, The Fatherland, etc. 

The object, of course, was to discourage the military activities of the 
United States and to bring about peace. 

In a telegram which was sent by Leila Faye Secor to President Wilson they 
stated that their membership is 1,800,000. 

Senator Nelson. Evidently these organizations were all in opposition to 
Gen. Pershing's organization over in France? 

Mr. Ste\tsxson. That is certainly the impression that one might get, 

This telegram to President Wilson states : 

" The organizing committee of the Peojile's Council of America, now repre- 
senting 1,800,000 consituents, believe that a combination of world events makes 
it Imperative that Congress speak in no uncertain terms on the question of 
peace and war." 

Senator Wolcott. What is the date of that telegram? 

Mr. Steve>:son. This was in August, 1917. 

Senator Nelsox. After we entered the war? 

Senator Wolcott. After Congress had spoken. 

Senator Nelson. Yes ; we spoke in April, did we not? 

Senator Wolcott. Yes. 

Mr. Stevenson (continuing reading) : 

" The eminent position of our country among the Allies and the democratic 
members of our Government, and the lives and the future happiness of the 
young manhood of our Nation all demand that Congress should no longer re- 
main silent and inactive on what is now the supreme interest of mankind, 
how to bring a just and lasting peace into the world. * * * 

" The Russian people are united for peace, based on the formula which is 
gaining acceptance everywhere : No forcible annexations, no punitive indem- 
nities, and free development for all nationalities. * * * " 

Senator Wolcott. They might also have added : "And victory for Ger- 
many "? 

Mr. Stevenson (continuing reading) : 

" Thus we have the representative assemblies of Russia, Germany, and Eng- 
land debating peace terms while only the American Congress remains sijent 
in this fateful war. 

" Forward-looking men and women throughout the world are looking expect- 
antly to Congress. Democracy is shamed by your silence." 

That was a telegram addressed by this organization to President Wilson 
personally. This organization is still in operation, and they held a dinner last 
Monday evening in New York City, at which Scott Nearing presided, and they 
determined to flood the country with handbill propaganda, because their litera- 
ture has been denied the use of the mails. 

Senator Wolcott. What have they in mind now? What is the nature of 
their propaganda now? 

Mr. Stevenson. They are taking up the league of nations. They are seeking 
the amnesty of all political prisoners. They do not want any military estab- 
lishment here. It is a very mixed type of propaganda. I do not know exactly 
what they are doing. 

Senator King. It is practically the overthrow of our republican form of 
government, and the establishment of a^ 

Senator Nelson. Bolshevik government? 


Senator King. Yes. 

Mr. Stevenson. There are a large number of persons connected with tlils 
organization that sympathize with the Bolshevik and Soviet form of govern- 

Senator King. Class government is what they want. 

Mr. Stevenson. I think we shall have to wait until we see their propaganda 
before we know exactly what they are doing. 

Senator Wolcott. There's no telling what they are going to do? 

Mr. Stevenson. I do not think so. 

The outgrowth of this People's Council was the Liberty Defense Union, with 
offices at 138 West Thirteenth Street, New York City, in which there is a 
curious mixture of intelligentsia and anarchists, radical socialists and- 

Senator Wolcott. What do you men by "intelligentsia" — intellectuals? 

Mr. Stevenson. Intellectuals. 

Senator Nelson. Senator, it means those anarchists who confine their opera- 
tions to brain storms and not to physical force. 

Mr. Stevenson. Among the members of this organization were the Rev. John 
Haynes Holmes ; Scott Nearing ; Elizabeth Gurley Flinn, who is well known as 
an I. W. W. ; Max Eastman ; Kate Richards O'Hare — and, by the way, there is 
an extremely interesting connection. Kate Richards O'Hare is now serving a 
sentence for violation of the espionage act, but she was an associate of Nicho- 
las Lenine in the International Bureau, the People's House, in Brussels before 
the war, in 1914. 

Senator Wolcott. This question has been running through my mind, Mr. 
Stevenson : Is it not a fact that these people, after all their efforts and agitation 
and the expenditure of a great deal of labor and emotional energy, after all 
did not make any kind of an impression at all on the plain, common-sense Amer- 
ican people — speaking by and large, I mean ; they did not make any dents, did 

Mr. Stevenson. I think if you really mean the American people, I should 
say no. Senator. 

Senator Wolcott. That is what I mean. I mean the ordinary American 

Mr. Stevenson. But it is a fact that 

Senator Wolcott. Of course, they can make some trouble here and there in 
spots ; but, taking the great body of the American people, were they not too 
level headed to be influenced by this outfit? 

Mr. Stevenson. We must remember. Senator, that the American people — - 
and by that I mean really American people — are not present in very large num- 
bers in our industrial centers. They have made a very great impression on the 
foreign element, which we will develop in the progress of the radical movement. 

I have brought in this pacifist movement in this way because of its direct 
connection with the subsequent radical movement, which is the thing which is 
of most importance before the country to-day. 

In connection with this Liberty Defense Union, Amos Pinchot was also a 
member ; Eugene V. Debs ; Henry Wadsworth Dana, a late professor of Colum- 
bia University ; David Starr Jordan ; Abram Shiplacoff, a Socialist assembly- 
man in New York ; James H. Maurer, of the Pennsylvania Federation of Labor ; 
and a large number of other persons of similar character. 

The result of the Ford peace mission was the establishment of an interna- 
tional committee of women for permanent peace, which was organized at The 
Hague in 1915. They organized a special branch for the United States and that 
branch had a subsidiary in New York City, which is now known as the Women's 
International League. 

It is rather interesting to note that at a meeting held on the 28th of November 
in New York City by this league, among the other literature which was dis- 
seminated was a pamphlet by a man known as Louis T. Fraina, entitled " Bol- 
shevism Conquers," and the meeting resulted in a riot by some unattached sol- 
diers that did not like the general tenor of the meeting. 

Senator Nelson. They broke it up? 

Mr. Stevenson. Mrs. Henry Villard, the mother of Oswald Garrison VlUard, 
was the honorary chairman ; Crystal Eastman was the chairman ; and Prof. 
Emily Greene Balch was also a member of that organization. 


Before going into the radical movement, I think it might be wise to define the 
three principal kinds of radical thought which go to make up the radical move- 


ment and which are merging in the development of Bolshevism. If you would 
care for me to give a brief theoretical analysis, I will do so. 

Senator Nelsox. Yes ; but be brief. 
. Senator King. Tes ; I was just asliing a member of the committee here 
whether that would be relevant to the issues which we were to investigate. 
Would the radical movement now have anything to do with the German propa- 
ganda or the investigation of the activities of the brewers? 

Senator Nelson. I think so. I think they are still carrying on that propa- 
ganda now. 

Senator King. If that is traceable, of course, to the German propaganda, or 
is a part of the Germ^an propaganda, I think that would be relevant. Other- 
wise, I do not see its relevancy. 

Let me ask you, Mr. Stevenson, is it your contention that this is a part of 
the German propaganda? 

Jlr. Stevensox. I think it is a result of the German propaganda. I call your 
attention to these numbers of Issues and Events, which is a ijropaganda maga- 
zine. They begin to sive publicity to Leon Trotsky here. [Indicating.] There 
is a history of Leon Trotsky in this magazine. 

IFrom testimony taken on Wednesday, January 22, 1919, pages 2729, 2737, 2738, 2739, 

and 2740 :] 

Mr. Stevenson. The corollary of the propaganda which was mentioned this 
morning, and in which a large number of tlie persons engaged in the pacifist 
organizations have taken part and now take part, is what may be generally 
classified as the radical movement, which is developing sympathy for the Bol- 
sheviki movement, and which in many quarters constitutes a revolutionary 
movement among the radical element in this country. 

Senator King.. Your contention is that this is the result of German propa- 
ganda, had its origin in Germany, and therefore would be properly investigated 
under the resolution of this committee? 

Mr. Stevenson. Yes. The Bolsheviki movement is a branch of the revolu- 
tionary socialism of Germany. It had its origin in tbe philosophy of Marx 
and its leaders were Germans. 

Senator King. And is this German socialism of this country and BoLshevism 
of this country the product of or taught by these organizations to which you 
referred this morning, in part? 

Mr. Stevenson. The membership of those organizations was in large part 
made up of persons either members of the Socialist Party or in sympathy 
with it. 

Senator Nelson. You mean that the German socialism was imported into 
this country by these men? 

Jlr. Stevenson. By some of these men. 

Senator Nelson. That is what I mean. 

Mr. Stevenson. Yes. 

A A * :^ V * * 

Senator Overman. Here is an exhibit that you put in, Mr. Stevenson, called 
the California Defense Bulletin, tbe issue of December 2. 1918. It says : 


" Great things are about to happen. In fact something has happened that 
has sent a thrill of joy through the heart of every true internationalist. 

" Germany has followed the example set by Russia ; the Kaiser and his mili- 
tarist gang have been pulled down from their high horses, and the workmen 
and soldiers have taken over the reins of the government. 

" The inspiring news was flashed through the world that the soldiers and 
sailors had joined the revolution, thus avoiding a bloody and long-drawn civil 
war. It is apparent that the Russian Bolsheviki had carried on an agitation 
among the German soldiers as well as among the civilian population, and the 
results are such that we feel inclined to tip our hats to the Bolsheviki and 
excJaim : ' Well done, brave soldiers of the class war.' 

" But Bolshevism is contagious. It is now reported that a revolution is brew- 
ing in Holland. There have been strikes and riots in Switzerland, and In 
Copenhagen, Denmark. In Sweden there has been a manifesto issued calling 
the workers and soldiers to unite and organize along the same line as in Russia. 


, "The writer is acquainted with conditions, and is aware of the sentiment 
among those opposing the Swedish Army, and it is safe to predict that the 
transformation, or rather the revolution will be accomplished without much 
bloodshed. Our Swedish fellow workers have for years carried on a systematic 
agitation against militarism, and have gone into the barracks and training 
camps distributing literature — and that they have been successful nobody who 
knows the real state of affairs can deny. It is only a question of time, and 
it may be nearer than we can realize when the Swedes will , straighten up and 
throw the profiteers and militarists oflf their backs. They are slow in starting, 
but when they set out to do anything, they usually do a perfect job. 

" Let the ' patriotic profiteers' howl and shout tJiemselves hoarse. Let -tliem 
summon all their stony-faced judges and their hypocritic pulpiteers — it will be 
to no avail. They can not stop the onward march of labor. The day of indus- 
trial freedom is drawing near. Get ready and do your part to speed the day." 
Does that indicate, taken in connection with what you have referred to in 
these other publications, that there is an organization In this country, now, to 
bring about a Bolsheviki revolution? 

Mr. Stevenson. I believe that is the desire of a number of the leaders. I 
would not want to say it as definitely proved. 
Senator Overman. These papers indicate that that is going on now? 
Mr. Stevenson. All of these papers seem to indicate that. 
The other publications of the Socialist Labor Party are the following news- 
papers: Arbetaren (Swedish), Volksfreund und Arbelter-Zeitung (German), 
Proletareets (Lettish), A Munkas (Hungarian), Radnucka Borba (South 

I believe they are also planning to have a Jewish paper. 
Senator Nelson. They are carrying on this propaganda? 
Mr. Stevenson. Yes. 

Senator Oveeman. So that it looks as if it were nearly world-wido — this so- 
cialism and Bolshevism and syndicalism. This appears to show that this propa- 
ganda is prevalent throughout the whole -world, advocating a revolution in 
every country in the world— even in Sweden and Switzerland? 
Mr. Stevenson. Yes. 

The prosecution of the I. W. W. enlisted the sympathy and support of the 

Socialist Party of America. This was shown by an interesting leaflet printed in 

Yiddish, which was picked up in the I. W. W. hall, 74 St. Mark's Place, New 

■ York, in the middle of December last year. The translation of it is as follows: 

" Socialists attention : 

" The National Executive Committee of the Socialist Party not long a'go de- 
clared at a session that the socialist party repeat the declaration of support of 
all the economic organizations of the working class and declares that listings, 
deportations and persecutions of the I. W. W. constitute an attack upon evei-y 
American working man. 

" And we call attention to the fact that the charges against the I. W. W. on 
the ground that they burnt crops and forests and destroyed a lot of property 
having been submitted to a legal test turned out to be all lies. 

" The socialist party has always lent its material and moral support to or- 
ganized labor everywhere, and whenever attacked by the capitalistic class, 
.whatever was the character of the organizations. We therefore pledge our- 
selves to support the I. W. AV.'s who are to be tried at Chicago and other places, 
asking for a fair trial and without prejudice, and we ask our members to do 
everything in their power to help the I. W. W. by informing the public of the 
true facts, and also to refute the falsehoods and misinformation wherewith the 
capitalist press poisons and prejudices public sentiment against these workers 
who are chosen for destruction just as other workmen and leaders have been 
repeatedly doomed to destruction by the same capitalists. 
" Socialists collect funds and send to the I. W. W. 

" Bring the matter up in your local organizations and branch meetings and 
ask them to send two delegates to the I. W. W. Defense Committee that meets 
every Sunday at 3 p. m. 74 St. Mark's Place, New York. 

"All contributions are sent by the above mentioned address to the general 
office at Chicago. . . 

" I W W. Defense Committee, 1001 West Madison St., Chicago, 111. 

"All checks to be made payable to W. D. Haywood, general secretary 

" Greetings of the I. W. W. Defense Committee of New York." 


That centers attention on the Socialist Party in America and on socialism in 

I should like to point out that socialism may be divided roughly into two 
principal kinds, one of which is the conservative evolutionary branch, which is 
sometimes known as the opportunist or possibilist, which desires to bring about 
its purpose throufjh parlianieutiiry action and tlie power of the ballot. The 
second branch, which is the revolutionary socialism, otherwise called impossl- 
bilist, is the official German socialism, and is the father of the Bolsheviki move- 
ment in Russia, and consequently the radical movement which we have in this 
country to-day has its origin in Germany. 

Senator Nelso>;. Is that a part of their kultur? 

Mr. Stevenson. It was one of the manifestations of their kultur, I believe. 

Senator Overman. You used the word " impossibilist." Why do they call it 

Mr. Stevenson. Because they found it impossible to cooperate with existing 
forms of government. 

Senator Overman. And they wanted to tear down the existing form of gov- 

Jlr. Stevenson. Yes. 

The capture of the Socialist Party in America in April, 1917, by the revolu- 
tionary socialist element is of particular interest because the members of the 
committee which brought in the majority report, the committee on war and 
militarism of that convention, had for its leader Kate Richards O'Hare, and 
Mr. Victor Berger was a member of that committee. Both of these persons 
were delegates from the United States to the International Socialist Bureau 
at Brussels, which carried out its world-wide propaganda from the People's 
House in Brussels. Representatives from other countries were Nicholas Lenine, 
the leader of Russian Bolshevism, and Rosa Luxemburg. 

Senator Nelson. Lately deceased? 

Mr. Steve>'son. Lately deceased ; who was one of the leaders of the German 
Bolshevist element known as the Spartacus group, and Karl Liebknecht. 

Senator Overman. He is also deceased? 

Mr. Stevenson. Yes ; he is also deceased. 

Senator Overman. Was Berger in the same convention with Liebknecht and 
Rosa Luxemburg? 

Mr. Stevenson. Yes ; he was a delegate to the same bureau, and represented 
the United States. 

Senator Nelson. Oh, he belonged to the same group. 

Senator Overman. I know he did ; but I did not know that he had attended 
the convention over there with them. 

Mr. Stevenson. The adoption of the majority report of the committee on 
war and militarism at that convention resulted in the withdrawal from the 
party of the conservative element, of the evolutionary socialists, such as 
Charles Edward Russell and .John Spargo, who have since done valuable service- 
to the Government in the prosecution of the war. 

Senator Overman. AVhere was that convention held? 

Mr. Stevenson. At St. Louis. 

Senator Overman. When? 

Mr. Stevenson. April 7 to 14, 1917. 

Senator Overman. Messrs. Russell and Spargo quit when they adopted those 

Mr. Stevenson. Yes. 

Senator Overman. And did valuable service for the Government? 

Mr. Stevenson. Yes. 

At this convention the following resolution was adopted : 

" Now, therefore, be it resolved, that the socialist party being the political 
arm of the working class in its fight for industrial freedom, and its power rest- 
ing mainly in its clear-cut, specific declaration of political and economic prin- 
ciples, rather than in the number of votes passed for party candidates, and the- 
purpose of the socialist movement being the emancipation of the working class 
from economic servitude, rather than the election to office of candidates, it is,, 
therefore, declared to be the sense of this convention that all state organiza- 
tions facing the solution of this question be urged to remember that to fuse- 
or to compromise is to be swallowed up and utterly destroyed; that they be 
urged to maintain the revolutionary position of the socialist party and main,- 
tain in the utmost possible vigor the propaganda of socialism, unadulterated by 


association of office seekers, to tlie end that the solidarity of the working class, 
the principles of international socialism may continue to lav the foundations 
for the social revolution. 

" The social revolution, not political office, is the end and aim of the socialist 
party. No compromLse, no political tradins." 

* * * * * * * 

(From testimony taken on Thursday, January 23, 1919, pages 2751, 2752, 2753-2772. 

and 2776-2779:] 

Maj. Humes. Mr. Stevenson, will you now resume, please, where you left off 
last night? 

Mr. Stevenson. If I remember correctly, I was just giving an illustration of 
the socialist expressions from the Radical Review of Tuly, 1918. 

Senator Overman. Where is that magazine published? 

Mr. Stevenson. It is published in New York, Senator, by the Radical Review 
Publishing Association, 202 East Seventeenth Street, New York City. 

Senator Overman. Has it a large circulation? 

Mr. Stevenson. I do not know what the circulation of it is. It is gotten up 
in very good style and has no advertisements. It is circulated at all of the 
radical meetings. At any of the meetings you attend you will pick up a copy 
of this magazine. ■ 

Senator Overman. Do you know who is financing all of these associations of 
the Bolsheviki, the Socialists, and so on? 

Mr. Stevenson. I was coming to that with regard to the Bolsheviki, Senator. 

Senator Overman. All right ; do not let me anticipate, then. Just go ahead. 

Mr. Stevenson (reading) : 

" True to the dictate of necessity, it flies the red flag of international social- 
ism "— 

This is referring to the Socialist Party — ■ 
" proclaiming the identity of the workers' interests the world over, recognizing 
only one enemy, the International bourgeoisie, and substituting the national 
particularism of an obsolete competitive capitalism with the international soli- 
darity of socialism." 

Senator Overman. It seems that they have a common flag, and that is the red 
flag. That is the I. W. W. and the socialists ; have they aU a common flag? 

Mr. Stevenson. They have. 

Senator Overman. And that is the red flag? 

Mr. Stevenson. That is the red flag. 

Senator Overman. Each one of these organizations carries the red flag? 

Mr. Stevenson. All of them. 

And here is the epitome of the whole thing : 

" The red flag of the Industrial Republic is expressive of all the slumbering 
and vital forces in society making for progress and true civilization ; it is a 
banner proclaiming and symbolizing the noble Ideal of social fraternity and 
industrial equality. The ultimate triumph of the proletarian armies fighting 
under the re(} flag, therefore, marks the dawn of the universal brotherhood and 
of the cooperative commonwealth." 

^ ^ il; * * Hi * 

Mr Stevenson. The Anarchist element in this country has always been a 
small one, but a very active and violent group. 

Thev came into prominence again with the declaration of war by the United 
States" and participated in the pacifist movement. 

They organized the No Conscription League, with headquarters at 20 East 
One hundred and tweuty-flftl) Street, Nev,- York City, and from that league 
thev issued the most violent propaganda opposed to conscription. I should like 
to submit one or two of their leaflets in the record. 

A large number of anonymous leaflets were distributed, which were signed 
"Anarchist," and by the underground pass. Among the assistints of Emma 
Goldman and Berkman were M. Elinore Fitzgerald, Carl Newlander, Walter 
Merchant, and W. P. Bales. 

I might say that the official publication of the Anarchist was Mother Earth. 

Senator Overman. Where was that published? 

Mr Stevenson. In New York City. 

Senator Nelson. What is the title of that— Mother Earth? 

85723—19 2 


Mr. Ste\'enson. Mother Earth. 

Senator Ovkkman. Who is the editor of that magazine? 

Mr. Stevenson'. Emma Goldman. It is still being published, although it is 
not coming out now in regular issues. She is conflned in prison for the viola- 
tion of the espionage act, I believe. 

Senator Overman. Was she tried under the espionage act after she was tried 
under the conspiracy act? 

Mr. Stevenson. Yes, sir. 

The anarchists have organized a school, known as the Ferrer Modern School, 
with headquarters at Stelton, N. J., but they have branches in most of the 
cities of the United States. 

In connection with this school, I must call attention to the organization of a 
school for children now being conducted. The head of this movement is Mr. 
Leonard D. Abbott. 

On the trial of Emma Goldman and Berkman, Mr. Abbott was called to 
testify as to the character of Emma Goldman and Berkman, and in the course 
of the examination he was asked : 

" Q. Does the Ferrer School teach children to disobey the laws of the 

To which he replied: 

"It teaches them to criticize all laws, and to prepare themselves for a free 

" Q. When you speak of criticizing laws, do you include the laws of this gov- 

"A. Yes." 

Senator Overman. \A'hat is the extent of th<jse schools? 

Mr. Stevenson. They are carrying on these schools in a great many centers. 

Senator Oveeman. Are they night schools? 

Mr. Ste\tsnson. No: I hat particular school Is a colony, to which these 
children go. 

Senator Overman. I understand they have other schools? 

Mr. Stevenson. They have courses of lectures. 

One New York branch of the Ferrer School has its headquarters at Pythian 
Hall, 1914 Madison Avenue, New Y'ork City. 

Senator Nelson. I suppose they have night schools for adults? 

Mr. Stevenson. Yes ; the school is a regular school for teaching anarchy to 
children as well as adults. 

Senator Nelson. I mean, they have night schools for adults in that line? 

Mr. Stevenson. I am not sure whether the Ferrer School has. I am sorry 
to say that I can not enlighten you on that point, but they give a series of 

It might be of interest to give you a few of the titles : 

On November 17, 1918, Elizabeth Gurley Flynn lectures on " Economic recon- 
.struction." She is an I. W. W., as well as a sympathizer of the "Anarchist." 

On Sunday, November 24, " The spirit of the mob, a factor in revolution," 
by J. Edward Morgan. 

December 1, " The anarchist's relation to the law," by Lola Ridge ; and 
similar lectures are carried on in New York. 

Senator Overiian. Are any of these people educated people? 

Mr. Stevenson. One of the lecturers here is Hutchins Hapgood, who is a 
brother of Norman Hapgood. 

Senator Nelson. He is <ine of their lecturers? 

Mr. Stevenson. Yes. 

The interesting feature of the anarchist movement is that it was originally 
associated with Karl Marx in the First International; that was the Interna- 
tional Working Men's Association, which was the first attempt to gather the 
radicals of all countries into one party which would direct the movement in 
foreign nations and which would attempt to bring about the results sought. 

The anarchists were admitted to that movement. As time went on, however, 
the socialists rather got away from the radical thought of the German official 
socialism, and finally the anarchists were expelled, in 1872. 

An interesting feature of the International, however, at the present time, 
is that when the war broke out in 1914 the International AVorking Men's 
Association broke up, because a number of the socialist groups in their respec- 
tive countries supported their governments, notably the German socialists ; 
and. for a time, it appeared that the socialist movement had received its death 
blow. But the length of the war, the extraordinary sacrifices of the peoples, and 


the economic burdens that have been imposed, have revived socialist luovements, 
and consequently we find the Bolshevik! of Russia setting for tlieniselves the 
task of reconstructing the International. 

The Bolsheviki are simply the modern manifestation of official German 
socialism, to which has been added some of the principles and tactics of 

Senator Ovebman. And they carry the red flag? 

Mr. Stevenson, And they carry the red flag. 

The interest of Russia to the United States is the fact that they have deter- 
mined to revive the International, and that means that they are sending their 
missionaries into all parts of the w^orld. 

It vcas through their influence that the German Spartacus group, headed by 
Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg, got their start. 

Their activities in Argentine have been prominent in the daily papers. 

It is particularly Interesting to note, also, that a very large area in Mexico 
is now in control of the Bolsheviki — a matter which, I think, has not been gen- 
erally known — and that the propaganda of the Industrial Union of North and 
South America, which it is called, is being circulated in New York City and in 
other cities of the United States, printed in Russian for the benefit of the Rus- 
sian immigrants and Russian Jewish immigrants to this country. 

I have a translation of this. It is written by John Sennzott. It sounds rather 
German to me, but I do not know anything about him. 

Senator Overman. Yes ; it sounds German rather than Russian. 

Mr. Stevenson. Yes. 

Maj. Humes. What parts of Mexico do you refer to, Mr. Stevenson? 

Mr. Stevenson. Yucatan and the adjoining States. 

Just to illustrate what they are telling these people in this country, I quote : 

"When a man wants a house, he goes to the Building Committee. Possibly 
he is told there is an empty house at such and such a place. If he does not 
like it, he is registered, and when his turn comes, he is built a house according 
to his wishes." 

In other words, they do not use any money, and everything is done on a co- 
operative basis. 

Senator Nelson. By the government? 

Mr. Stevenson. By the Soviet government. 

Senator Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Stevenson. The interesting feature of the Bolsheviki movement is that 
every one of these currents that we have spoken of is now cooperating with the 
Bolsheviki emissaries. We have several avowed agents of the Bolsheviki gov- 
ernment here — avowed propagandists. 

Senator Nelson. In this country; operating here? 

Mr. Stevenson. In this country ; operating to-day. 

Senator Nelson. Can you give us the names of them? 

Mr. Stevenson. Yes. Two of them are American citizens. One is John Reed, 
a graduate of Harvard University. 

Senator Nelson. You don't say? 

Mr. Stevenson. And, by the way, he is a descendant of Patrick Henry. He is 
now under indictment, but has not yet been tried, for violation of the espion- 
age act. 

I will read from some of his speeches to give you an illustration of the type 
of propaganda which he Is spreading. 

Senator Overman. Are these people financed by the Russian Bolsheviki? 

Mr. Stevenson. I might say that we have found money coming into this coun- 
try from Russia. Money has come into this country to the head of the Finnish 
branch of Bolsheviki movement in this country, Sanitori Nourotava ; and there 
is reason to believe that money has come in from other sources. Some of these 
matters are now being investigated, and it would not be wise to make the names 
of the people or the matter public. 

Senator Overman. You said there were two Americans; one is Reed, who is 
the other? 

Mr. Stevenson. One is Reed and the other is Albert Rhys Williams. 

Senator Overman. Where is he from? 

Mr. Stevenson. He is from New York, I think. I do not know where he came 
from; he is an American citizen, I know. He was a newspaper man. I be- 
lieve he was a correspondent in Russia before we entered the war. I offer, as 
an illustration, a book or pamphlet published by The Rand School of Social 


Science, by Albert Rhys Williams, entitled "The Bolsheviks and the Soviets." 
That is an exposition of the spendid conditions in Russia under the Soviet form 
of government. 

The Russian Bolsheviki have flooded America with propaganda literature, of 
which an example is "A letter to American working men from the Socialist 
Soviet Republic of Russia, by Nikolai Lenin," published by The Socialist Publi- 
cation Society, 431 Pulaski Street, Brooklyn, N. Y., in December, 1918. It is 
an appeal to the American working men to straighten up and throw off the 
incubus of cnpital and to join the ranks of the Soviet government. The Rand 
School of Social Science has published — and these are in English — articles by 
Nikolai Lenin, entitled " The Soviets at Work." They are very extremely inter- 
esting documents and very appealing. 

A large number of documents are printed in Russian, Yiddish, Finnish, and 
the various other languages which are spoken by large groups of our foreign im- 
migrants in this country ; and besides all this, we find that the Socialist papers, 
almost without exception, encourage and support this movement. 

Senator Ovebman. Would it be difficult for us to get a list of all such papers 
and pamphlets published, and have it put in the record? 

Mr. Stevenson. It would be quite a difficult task. In the first place, the 
means of the Government for collecting these papers, books, pamphlets, etc., 
are rather limited at the present time. They are scattered all over the United 

Senator O^-eeiian. Is any of this propaganda going through the South? 

Mr. Stevenson. Why, not so much ; at least, not so much has come to our 
nttention. I might call attention to the New England Leader, published in 
Boston and Fitchburg, Mass., for November 23, 1918, which has an interesting 
article on the first page, entitled " Capitalism fast tottering to fall — Smug capi- 
talists of this Nation will lose their crowns as soon as the spirit of the prole- 
tariat of Germany is contracted by the American workers." and the heading is 
" The people's hour has arrived." 

Senator Overman. Where Is that from? 

Mr. Stevenson. That is from Boston and Fitchburg, Mass. I am sorry that I 
can not call your attention to all the interesting articles in these various papers. 

Senator Nelson. Have you got any Finnish paper there? 

Mr. STE^'ENSON. I have. Here is a Finnish paper [exhibiting]. 

Senator Nelson. Where is it published? 

Mr. Stevenson. Published in Astoria, Oreg. It is a very prosperous-looking 
paper, published in three sections, and the name is Toverl. It has in English 
in the upper right-hand corner " The circulation of the Toverl is greater than 
the combined circulation of all other newspapers printed in Astoria." It is a 
very substantial sheet. 

Senator Overman. Is it printed in English? 

Mr. Stevenson. No ; that is Finnish. I submit now copies of various 
Socialistic newspapers from various parts of the country. You might be inter- 
ested to look some of those over. Now, here is a paper in English, entitled 
International Weekly, with a subheading " Organ of the social revolution." 
That is published in Seattle, Wash. Another one is entitled " Seattle Daily 
Call. To carry truth to the people." 

Senator Overman. Is that in English? 

Mr. Stevenson. Yes; that is in English. I am only bringing these to your 
attention as scattered illustrations of the type of publications printed. 

Senator Nelson. Can you give us any information about the activities of 
these extreme radicals in this country ; where they have operated, and what 
they have done, or \indertaken to do? 

Mr. Steatinson. Up to the present time, so far as actual proof is concerned, 
their activities are largely propaganda, the holding of large numbers of meet- 
ings, and the distribution of radical literature. 

Senator Overman. Pamphlets and newspapers? 

Mr. Stevenson. Pamphlets, newspapers, books, and hand bills. For instance, 
one of the methods was to print a leaflet calculated to disturb the mind of 
the reader, which was put into the mail boxes of a very large number of 
tenement houses — stuffed in the various mail boxes — entitled " Why you should 
be a socialist," by Theresa S. Malkiel, who, by the way, was a member of 
several of the pacifist societies that we spoke of yesterday. 

Immediately after the signing of the armistice there was a tremendous out- 
cropping of this propaganda. The number of meetings doubled, and one of 
the first meetings of interest was held on November 15, 1918, by the Yorkville 


agitation committee (Yorkville being a part of New York City). Comrade 
Patrick Quinlan, wlio is known for liis connection with tlie I. W. W., and wlio 
has served a sentence for his activities with the I. W. Vf. in Paterson, N. J., 
made a speech tliat night, in which he said : 

" Do not allow the capitalists to keep the Army in Europe for the purpose 
of shooting down your fellow laboring men in Germany and Russia. Do not 
trust Lloyd George any more than you trust the Professor. The red flag is 
flying over nearly all of Europe ; it will soon fly in France, and spread across 
the English Channel, an.. e\eiitually will fly over this city and the White House, 
when the Republic of i t the World is proclaimed." 

At a meeting held on January 10, 1919, at the Labor Lyceum, 949 Willoughby 
Avenue, Brooklyn, N. Y., Mr. John Reed, who is the 

Senator Overman. The Harvard graduate? 

Mr. Stevenson. Yes ; the Harvard graduate, and wlio is in this country as 
the consul general of the Soviet Republic, stated, among other things 

Senator Overman. That is not recognized, though? 

Mr. Stevenson. No ; not recognized. He says : 

" My family came to this country, botli branches, in 1607 ; one of my ancestors 
was Patrick Henry, who signed the Declaration of Independence; another of my 
ancestors was a general under George Washington ; and another a colonel on the 
northern side in the Civil War. I have a brother, a major in the Aviation 
Corps, now in France, and I am a voter and a citizen of the United States; and 
1 claim the right to criticise the government as much as I please. I criticise the 
form of it because I claim that it is not a democratic enough government for me. 
I want a more democratic government. I consider the Soviet government in 
Russia a more democratic government at tlie present time than our own gov- 

He goes on in a very long speech, the tenor of which is to justify the position 
and the activities of the Soviet government, and expressing the highest praise 
for it. He goes on further to say : 

"Now, this war, which is supposed to have been finished up now, was sup- 
posed to be a conflict between two ideas — democracy and autocracy. Well, the 
war is finished, comrades, and where in Hell is the democracy? Now, in New 
York City free speecii is suppressed ; Socialists are not allowed to meet ; the • 
red flag is banned ; periodicals are barred from the mails, and all the evidences 
of Prussianism appear." 

I might point out another dangerous feature of this thing. 

Maj. Htjmbs. It would suggest that tlie whole speech be put into the record. 
I have glanced over it myself. It has only been referred to, but I believe it 
is an interesting outline of the whole plan of their activities. 

Senator Overman. Let it go in. 

Mr. Stevenson. The thing that I was going to mention is that a lot of edu- 
cated people, particularly a number of educated and cultured women, who 
have taken an interest in what is known as " liberal ideas," have, as a form 
of entertainment, the inviting of John Reed and others to come and address 
them on afternoons. 

SeJiator Overman. That is the man who made this speech? 

Mr. STE^■ENS0N. Yes. 

(The speech referred to is here printed in the record, as follows:) 

Comrades and friends : I am just told that there is an order from the police 
that we are not to criticise at this meeting the United States Government or the 
Allies. Now I was arrested and indicted some two months ago for criticizing 
the intervention of the Allies in Russia. Since that time not socialist papers 
but bourgeois papers, the Nation, the Dial, the Public, and the New Republic, 
the Evening Post, Jane Addams, Senator Hiram .Johnson, Senator Borah, and 
other members of Congress have said a damned sight worse things than I 
have, and nobody dared either arrest or indict them. I am obliged to conclude 
from that that" these persecutions are directed against socialism. Now it 
evidently has not come to the attention of the gentleman who gave that request 
from the police that according to my information the Attorney General of the 
United States has ruled that criticism of the allies does not come under the 
Espionage Act, for the simple reason that we have no treaties of alliance with 
any European power at the present moment, and the foreign nations, we can 
criticise them all we please. 

Now, I am an American, and my family has been here a good deal longer 
than the families of any police. My family came to this country, both branches, 
in 1607. One of my ancesters was Patrick Henry, who signed the Declaration 


of Independence. Another of my ancestors was a General under George Wash- 
ington, and another a Colonel on the Northern side In the Civil War, now In 
France, and I am a voter and a citizen of the United States, and I ilaini the 
right to criticise the government as much as I please, 

I criticise the form of it. I criticise the form of it because I claim that it) 
is not a democratic enough government for me. I want a more democratic 
government. I consider the Soviet Government of Russia a more democratic 
government at the present time than our own government, and Col. William 
Royce Thompson, who is a millionaire, said the same thing three months ago, 
and nobody dared touch him. Now I charge agencies of our goxernment witli 
keeping from the people of the United States the truth about Russia, and 
Senator Hiram Johnson said the same thing the other day in Congress. We 
have also agencies of our government which have not only kept the truth from 
our people, but they have given out information about Russia which is not 
true, and I refer here to the Sisson documents particularly, proving that Lenine 
and Trotzky received German gold, and I tell the people In this hall assembled, 
and the people of the United States, and the Senate of the United States, that 
proof will be offered in Congress within ten days, and it is there now, that proof 
will be offered that the Sisson documents are largely forgeries. I claim that 
the statement of our government, which was given by Chairman Hitchcock to 
the United States Senate, to the effect that our troops were welcomed by the 
people at Archangel and Vladivostok is false, and the agents of our goverimient 
know that it is false. We were not welcome in either Archangel or Vladivostok 
and I don't mean only our own troops but all the Allies, and I say here that the 
Allied troops, British, French, and Japanese, when they landed at Vladivostok 
they shot In the streets hundreds of Soviet troops, blew down buildings, put the 
Soviet government in jail ; that when it was over a funeral procession of the 
working people, 20,000 strong, went through the streets carrying the coffins con- 
taining their dead, which they laid down in front of the British Consulate, 
from which machine guns had played on the people. They made speeches say- 
ing they would never forget their dead, and there, surrounded by machine .guns 
and artillery, they were about to leave. 

There were American cruisers in the harbor. It was the 4th of July, and 
the American cruisers flew the American flag. One fif the speakers said to the 
people : " See ; to-day America celebrates the anniversitry of her independence. 
Let us go and appeal to America so that the Americans on this, their day of 
independence, will recognize that «e are struggling for freedom." And they 
carried those coflins up the hill and laid them down on the sidewalk in front 
of the American Consulate, and asked that we say a word for them. And five 
days later the United States Marines landed and three weeks later they were 
shooting down Russians without a Declaration of War. 

I want to point out another thing, and charge, as Johnson has charged in the 
Senate of the United States — as Senator Hiram Johnson has charged in the 
Senate of the United States — and the Dial, the Nation, the Public, the New 
Republic, and the Evening Post have charged the same thing, that our govern- 
ment in sending troops to Russia without a declaration of war has violated the 
Constitution of the United States and has committed an illegal act, and I 
charge that same thing here tonight. 

Now I want to point out to you what is being done in the Baltic provinces bj 
the Allies, particularly by the English. The English have taken under their 
protection the so-called governments of the Baltic provinces. Those govern- 
ments which were set up by who? By the people of the Baltic Provinces? No. 
By the officials of Kaiser Wilhelm ; and those are the governments that the 
British government is taking under its protection. 

I also want to call your attention to the despatches which have been coming 
through and which have not been denied, that the Brlti'sh authorities have 
told the Germans to resist the onward march of the Bolshevikl, the Lettish, 
the Esthonian, and the Lithuanian people who are trying to win back their own 
country from the tyranny of German barons who have terrorized the Baltic 
provinces for centuries. There is a very Important thing for you to remember, 
and that is that what the AUies are doing at the present time in the Baltld 
provinces — and I don't say our own government, because our government has 
nothing to do with this — but what the Germans, the English, and the French are 
doing is carrying out the provisions of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk which the 
Germans imposed upon the Russian Baltic provinces — a treaty at which the 
whole allied world, including us here in America, threw up its hands in horror, 
such were the conditions imposed upon the Baltic provinces. And now the 


allies, wlthont any further delay at all, are imposing these same conditions, or 
trying to Impose them, iipon the Baltic provinces, and the only reason they can- 
hot do so is that there is an international red army of Esthonians, Letts, 
Lithuanians, and Russians, who are resisting them to the last. 

Now this war, which is supposed to have been finished by now, was sup- 
posed to be a conflict between two ideals, democracy and autocracy. Well, the 
war is finished, comrades, and where in hell is the democracy? Now in New 
York City free speech is suppressed. Socialists are not allowed to meet, the 
red flag is banned, periodicals are barred from the mails, and all the evidences 
of Prussianlsm appear. I want to ask yon, if ypu know anything about imperial 
Oermany, If you had ever been to a meeting in Germany, a political meeting? 
Absolutely the same phenomenon is here. The Chief of Police comes to tell you 
you can't talk about so-and-so, and 100 cops in the hall ! Is that so? 

Now the war Is ended, but a new war is begun, and this time it IS a war 
between two ideas for the first time in history. Those two ideas are these : 
There are two parties. On one side is private property and nationalism, and on 
the other side is property for the people and internationalism. Now the system 
of civilization, comrades, under which we live, is bankrupt at the present time. 
It hasn't got a leg to stand on. It doesn't dare to permit democracy, because 
if it did it would be voted out of existence. It rests, of course upon words 
which do no mean what they say, and upon force. 

Now In this connection I want to call your attention to a statement of 
Nieholai Lenine's, which he spoke in the third congress of Soviets, after the 
disposal of the Constituent Assembly, when the other members were accusing the 
BolshevikI of using force. Lenine stood on the platform and said, " We are 
accused of using force. We admit it. All government is merely organized force 
in the hands of one class against another; but now, for the first time in history, 
this organized force is being used by the working class against the capitalist 

On the night of second Congress of Soviets in Petrograd, when the Bolshevik! 
insurrection broke out and the Provisional Government fell, the Bolsheviki 
were In session in a great hall like this one, the Smolny Institute. Throu,<Jh 
the windows came the sound of cannon fire, and as the evening wore and the 
success of the Bolsheviki Insurrection became apparent, all the other political 
parties in that convention began to walk out. One after another the leaders 
walked out and their delegates followed the leaders. And Trotzky, who 
noticed that among the Bolsheviki delegates who ware In the great majority, 
there were a number of delegates who seemed uneasy and uncertain to see all 
the other parties leaving, went to the front platform and said, " Let the com- 
promisers go ; they are just so much garbage which will be swept Into the 
rubbish-heap of history." 

But what I want to tell you most of all is this, that when these compromising 
parties walked out of the Congress of the Soviets and left the balance, the 
Bolsheviki, greatly reduced, here and there a man would stand up. One said, 
" I am for the Esthonian Social Democracy ; I demand a place on that platform." 
Another said, " I am from the Lettish Social Democracy ; I demand a place on 
that platform." A third said, " I am from the Lithuanian Social Democracy ; I 
demand a place on that platform." And so it finally came to pass that represen- 
tatives of the working class from all over Russia came and joined hands with 
them, and that was the beginning of the Russian international, which was the 
beginning of the third international of the world's workers. 

I was In the Lettish country just after the (all of Rega. I was at the front 
and saw the Lettish soldiers, who alone of all the 12th Army stood against the 
Germans, and stood against the Germans until they were cut down, one regi- 
ment 3000 to 18, and the reason they stood against the Germans was not because 
they didn't like the Germans, but because they were revolutionists, and they 
saw Immediately that the Germans were the representatives of a militant capi- 
talism advancing on Russia. The i-eason I know that was why they stood 
against the Germans is that when the Allies landed at Archangel and Vladivostok 
the Corps of the two revolutionary armies sent against the Allies was composed 
of Letts, which race had already sacrificed their lives so bravely. 

On the 10th of November the Bolsheviki controlled the City of Petrograd. 
Their headquarters was in Smolny Institute, and they were organizing the 
defence of the. City against Kerensky's cossack army which was coming up 
from the South. . They were cut ofC from communication with the rest of the 
country. The reactionary central committee of the postal telegraph union, 
the telephone workers, and the railroad workers had declared against them 


and the Bolsheviki iu the Smolny Institute were cut ott from all communication 
with the rest of Russia and the world. They didn't know how the army would 
go. Of course they knew the condition of mind of the ai-my. They knew they 
had the masses of Russian people with them, but didn't know how the thing was 
actually working out, and couldn't get any information. 

In the Duma — on the Xevsky Prospect the Duma was forming what they 
called a Committee for the Salvation of Country and Revolution. It was com- 
posed of the anti-Bolshevik forces and included the compromising socialist 
party. This Committee for Salvation was in communication with Kerensky 
and with the rest of Russia and was trying to rouse it against the Bolsheviki. 
I ^yas in the Duma that afternoon. I left the Smolny about noon. There one 
man was doing the work of ten, and people were falling down from fatigue, 
sleeping three or four hours, getting up again and working, and everyone was 
gloomy and depressed. When I got to the Duma everybody was feeling fine; 
they thought the Bolsheviki would only last about three hours. We sat there 
for a while and suddenly I looked out the window down the Nevsky ProsiDect, 
and saw coming up a double file of soldiers on bicycles, and I said to myself, 
" Here is the army, the loyal regiments coming in to crush the Bolsheviki," and 
I went down. All the town had come out. The soldiers stopped and lined up 
for a moment's rest in front of the Duma, and after a while people began to 
ask questions, "What are you?" "Oh, we are the Lettish sharp-shooters." 
"Where do you come from?" "We come from the front." "What are you 
going to do here, capture the Smolny Institute and kick out the Bolsheviki?" 
One Lett said, " Hell, no, we are here to support the Soviet ; you go back to the 
Duma if you want to." 

Mr. Stevenson. An extremely interesting bit of propaganda, and one which 
has been used by all of the Bolsheviki newspapers, is a letter addressed to 
President Wilson from the Rus.sian Soviet Government, and signed by the 
" People's Commissary of Foreign Affairs, Tchictherin," which was delivered 
through the Norwegian Embassy to President AYilson October 24, 1918. 

Senator Nelson. Is it a long letter? 

Mr. Stevenson. It is a very long thing, but it is a matter of great interest. 
It is an extremely well-written document, and extremely insidious, and for that 
reason it has been used by the Bolsheviki in this country. It was designed, 
when sent, to be used as propaganda, and it is interesting that the first English 
publication of it was in the Nation, which is owned and edited by Oswald 
Garrison Villard. It was not given out by the Government of the United 
States. I do not know whether you would like to have that go into the record 
or not. 

Maj. Humes. It is a matter which I think should go into the record. It gives 
their view of our form of government, and outlines what they concede to be 
their plan of government. 

Senator Oveem.nn. Contrasting theirs with ours? 

Maj. Hxtmes. Yes, sir. 

Senator Ovekman. Put it in the record. 

(The letter referred to is printed in the record as follows :) 

To the President of the United States of North America, Mr. Woodrow Wilson. 

Mr. Pkesident: In your message nf January 8th to the Congress of the United 
States of North America, in the sixth point, you spoke of your profound sym- 
pathy for Russia, which was then conducting, single handed, negotiations with 
the mighty German imperialism. Your program, you declared demands the 
evacuation of all Russian territory and such a settlement of all questions 
affecting Russia as will secure the best and freest cooperation of the other 
nations of the world in obtaining for her unhampered and unembarrassed 
opportunity for the independent determination of her political development and 
national policy, and assure her a sincere welcome into the society of free 
nations under institutions of her own choosing; and, more than a welcome, 
assistance of every kind that she may need and may herself desire. And you 
added that " the treatment accorded to her by her sister nations in the months 
to come will be the acid test of their good-will, of their comprehension of her 
needs as distinguished from their own interests, of their intelligent and un- 
selfish sympathy." 

The desperate struggle which we were waging at Brest-Litovsk against Ger- 
man imperialism apparently only intensified your sympathy for Soviet Russia, 
for you sent greetings to the Congress of the Soviets, which under the threat of 


a German ofEensive ratified the Brest peace of violence — greetings and assur- 
ances that Soviet Russia might count upon American help. 

Six months have passed since thep, and the Russian people have had suffi- 
cient time to get actual tests of your Government's and your Allies' good-will, 
of their comprehension of the needs of the Russian people, of their intelligent 
unselfish sympathy. This attitude of your Government and of your Allies was 
shown first of all in the conspiracy which was organized on Russian territory 
with the financial assistance of your French Allies and with the diplomatic 
co-operation of your Government as well — the conspiracy of the Czecho-Slovaks 
to whom your Government is furnishing every kind of assistance. 

For some time attempts had been made to create a pretext for a war between 
Russia and the United States of North America by spreading false stories to 
the eifect that German war prisoners had seized the Siberian railway, but your 
own officers and after them Colonel Robbins, the head of your Red Cross 
Mission, had been convinced that these allegations were absolutely false. The 
Czecho-Slovak conspiracj' was organized under the slogan that unless these 
misled unfortunate people be protected, they would be surrendered to Germany 
and Austria ; but you may find out, among other sources, from the open letter 
of Captain Sadoul, of the French Military Mission, how unfounded this charge 
is. Tlie Czecho-Slovaks would have left Russia in the beginning of the year, 
had the French Government provided ships for them. For several months we 
have waited in vain that your Allies should provide the opportunity for the 
Czecho-Slovaks to leave. Evidently these Governments have very much pre- 
ferred the presence of the Czecho-Slovaks in Russia — the results show for what 
object — to their departure for France and their participation in the fighting 
on the French frontier. Tlie best proof of the real object of the Czecho-Slovak 
rebellion is tlie fact that although in control of the Siberian railway, the 
Czecho-Slovaks have not taken advantage of this to le£tve Russia, but by the 
order of the Entente Governments, whose directions they follow, have re- 
mained in Russia to become the mainstay of the Russian counter-revolution. 
Their counter-revolutionary mutiny which made impossible the transportation 
of grain and petroleum on the Volga, which cut off the Russian workers and 
peasants from the Siberian stores of grain and other materials and condemned 
them to starvation — this was the first experience of the workers and peasants 
of Russia with your Government and with your Allies after your promises of 
the beginning of the year. And then came another experience : an attack on 
North Russia by Allied troops, including American troops, their invasion of 
Russian territory without any cause and without a declaration of war, the 
occupation of Russian cities and villages, executions of Soviet officials and 
other acts of violence against the peaceful population of Russia. 

You have promised, Mr. President, to co-operate with Russia' in order to 
obtain for her an unhampered and unembarrassed opportunity for the inde- 
pendent determination of her political development and her national policy. 
Actually this co-operation took the form of an attempt of the Czecho-Slovak 
troops and later, in Archangel, Murmansk and the Far East, of your own and 
your Allies' troops, t() force the Russia:} people to submit to the rule of the 
oppressing and exploiting classes, whose dominion was overthrown by the 
workers and peasants of Russia in October, 1917. The revival of the Russian 
counter-revolution which has already become a corpse, attempts to restore by 
force its bloody domination over the Russian people — ^^such was the experience 
of the Russian people, instead of co-operation for the unembarrassed expres- 
sion of their will which you promised them, Mr. President, in your declara- 

You have also, air. President, promised to the Russian people to assist them 
in their struggle for independence. Actually this is what has occurred : while 
the Russian people were fighting on the Southern front against the counter- 
revolution, which has betrayed them to German imperialism and was threaten- 
ing their independence, while they were using all their energy to organize the 
defense of their territory against Germany at their Western frontiers, they 
were forced to move their troops to the East to oppose the Czecho Slovaks who 
were bringing them slavery and oppression, and to the North — against your 
allies and your own troops which had invaded their territory, and against 
the counter-revolutions organized by these troops. 

Mr. President, the acid test of the relations between the United States and 
Russia gave quite different results from those that might have been expected 
from your message to the Congress. But we have reason not to be altogether 
dissatisfied with even these results, since the outrages of the counter-revolution 


In the East and Xortli have shown the \\orkers and peasants of Russia the 
aims of the Russian counter-revolution, and of its foreign supporters, thereby 
creating among the Russian people an Iron will to defend their liberty and 
the conquests of the revolution to defend the land that it has given to the 
peasants and the factories that it has given to the workers. The fall of Kazan, 
Symbyrsk, Syzran, and Samara should make it clear to you, Mr. President, 
what were the consequence for us of the actions which followed your promises 
of January 8th. Our trials helped to create a strongly united and disciplined 
Red Army, which is daily growing stronger and more powerful and which Is 
learning to defend the revolution. The attitude toward us, which was actually 
displayed by your Government and by your Allies could not destroy us ; on the 
contrary, we are now strcmger than we were a few months ago, and your 
present proposal of international negotiations for a general peace finds us alive 
and strong and in a position to give in the name of Russia our consent to join 
the negotiations. In your note to Germany you demand the evacuation of 
occupied territories as a condition which must precede the armistice during 
which peace negotiations shall begin, ^^■e are ready. Mr. President, to conclude 
an armistice on these conditions, and we ask you to notify us when you, Mr. 
President, and your Allies intend to remove troops from Murmansk, Archangel 
and Siberia. You refuse to conclude an armistice, unless Germany will stop 
the outrages, pillaging, etc., during the evacuation of occupied territories. We 
allow ourselves therefore to draw the conclusion that you and your allies will 
order the Czecho-Slovaks to return the part of our gold reserve fund which 
they seized in Kazan, that you will forbid them to continue as heretofore their 
acts of pillaging and outrage against the workers and peasants during their 
forced departure (for we will encourage their speedy departure, without waiting 
for your order). 

Witli regard to other peace terms, namely, that the Governments which 
would conclude peace must express the will of their people, you are aware that 
our Government fully satisfies this condition, our Government expresses the 
will of the Councils of Workmen's, Peasants' and Red Army Deputies, represent- 
ing at least eighty per cent of the Russian people. This cannot, Mr. President, 
be said about your Government. But for the sake of humanity and peace we 
do not demand as a prerequisite of geiieral peace negotiations that all nations 
participating In the negotiations shall be represented by Councils of People's 
Commissaries elected at a Congress of Councils of Workmen's, Peasants' and 
Soldiers' Deputies. We know that this form of Government will soon be the 
general form, and that precisely a general peace, when nations will no more 
be threatened with defeat, will leave them free to put an end to the system 
and the clique that forced upon mankind this universal slaughter, and which 
will, in spite of themselves, surely lead the tortured peoples to create Soviet 
Governments, which give exact expression to their will. 

Agreeing to participate at present in negotiations with even sucli Govern- 
ments as do not yet express the will of the people, we W(5uld like on our part 
to find out from you, Mr. President, in detail what is your conception of the 
League of Nations, which you propose as the crowning work of peace. You de- 
mand the independence of Poland, Serbia, P)elglum and freedom for the peoples 
of Austria-Hungary. You probably mean by this that the masses of the people 
must everywhere first become the masters of their own fate in order to unite 
afterwards in a league of free nations. But strangely enough, we do not find 
among your demands the liberation of Ireland, Egypt, or India, nor even the 
liberation of the Philippines, and we would be very sorry to learn that these 
people should be denied the opportunity to participate together with us, through 
their freely elected representatives, in the organization of the League of Nations. 

We would also, Mr. President, very much like to know, before the negotia- 
tions with regard to the formation of a League of Nations have begun, what 
is your conception of the solution of many economic questions which are essen- 
tial for the cause of future peace. You do not mention the war expenditures — 
this unbearable Imrden, wliich the masses would have to carry, unless the league 
of nations should renounce payments on the loans to the capitalists of all coun- 
tries. You know as well as we, Mr. President, that this war is the outcome of 
the policies of all capitalistic nations, that the governments of all countries 
were continually piling up armaments, that the ruling groups of all civilized 
nations pursued a policy of annexations, and that it would, therefore, be ex- 
tremely unjust if the masses, having paid for these policies with millions of 
lives and with economic ruin, should vet pay to those who are really responsible 


for tbe war a tribute for their policies ^vliicli resulted in all these couutles8 

We propose therefore, Mr. President, the annulment of the war loans as the 
basis of the League of Nations. As to the restoration of the countries that 
were laid waste by the war, we believe it is only just that all nations, should 
aid for this purpose, the unfortunate Belgium, Poland, and Servia, and however 
poor and ruined Russia seems to be, she is ready on her part to do evei-ything 
she can to help these victims of the war, and she expects that American capital, 
which has not at all suffered from this war and has even made many billions in 
profits out of it, will do its part to help tliese peoples. 

But the League of Nations should not only liquidate the present war, but also 
make impossible any wars in the future. You must be aware, Mr. President, 
that the capitalists of your country are planning to apply in the future the same 
policies of encroachment and of super profits in China and in Siberia, and that, 
fearing competition from Japanese capitalists, they are preparing a military 
force to overcome the resistance which they may meet from Japan. You are no 
doubt aware of similar plans of the capitalists ruling circles of other countries 
with regard to other territories and other peoples. Knowing this, you will 
have to agree with us that the factories, mines and banks must not be left in 
the hands of private persons, who have always made use of the vast means of 
production created by the masses pt the people to export products and capital to 
foreign countries in order to reap super profits in return for the benefits forced 
on them, their struggle for spoils resulting in imperialistic wars. We propose, 
therefore, Mr. President, that the League of Nations be based on the expro- 
priation of the capitalists of all countries. In your country, Mr. President, 
the banks and the Industries are In the hands of such a small group of capi- 
talists that, as your personal friend. Colonel Ilobbins, assured us, the arrest of 
twenty heads of capitalistic cliques and the transfer of the control, which by 
characteristic capitalistic methods they have come to possess, into the hands of 
the masses of the people is all that would be required to destroy the principal 
source of new wars. 

If you will agree to this, Mr. President — if the source of future wars will 
thus be destroyed, then there can be no doubt that it would be easy to remove 
all economic barriers and that all peoples, controlling their means of produc- 
tion, will be vitally Interested in exchanging the things they do not need for 
the things they need. It will then be a question of an exchange of products 
between nations, each of which produces what It can best produce, and the 
League of Nations will be a league- of mutual aid of the toiling masses. It 
will then be easy to reduce the armed forces to the limit necessary for the 
maintenance of Internal safety. 

We know very well that the selfish capitalist class will attempt to create 
this internal menace, just as the Russian landlords and capitalists are now 
attempting with the aid of American, English, and French armed forces to take 
the factories from the workers and the land from the peasants. But, if the 
American workers. Inspired by your Idea of a League of Nations, will crush 
the I'esistance of the American capitalists as we have crushed the resistance 
of the Russian capitalists, then neither the German nor any other capitalists 
will be a serious menace to the victorious working class, and it will then suf- 
fice, if every member of the commonwealth, working six hours in the factory, 
spends two hoiirs daily for several months in learning the use of arms, so that 
the whole people will know how to overcome the internal menace. 

And so, Mr. President, though we have had experience with your promises, 
we nevertheless, accept as a basis your proposals about peace and about a 
League of Nations. We have tried to develop them in order to avoid results 
which would contradict your promises, as was the case with your promise of 
assistance to Russia. We have tried to formulate with precision your pro- 
posals on the League of Nations in order that the League of Nations should 
not turn out to be a league of capitalists against the nations. Should you not 
agree with us, we have no objection to an " open discussion of your peac-e 
terms," as your first point of your peace program demands. If you will accept 
our proposals as a basis, we will easily agree on the details. 

But there is another possibility. We have had dealings with the President 
of the Archangel attack and the Siberian invasion and we have also had deal- 
ings with the President of the League of Nations Peace Program. Is not the 
first of these — the real President actually directing the policies of the American 
capitalist government? Is not the American Government rather a Government 


of the American corporations, of the American industrial, commercial and rail' 
road trusts, of the American banks — in short, a (Jovernment of the American 
capitalists? And Is it not possible that the proposals of this Government about 
the creation of a League of Nations will result in new clialns for the peoples. 
In the organization of an International trust for the exploitation of the workers 
and the suppression of weak nations? In this latter case, Mr. President, you 
will not be in a iwsition to reply to our questions, and we will say to the 
workers of all countries : Beware ! Millions of your brothers, thrown at each 
others throats by the bourgeoisie of all countries are still perishing on the 
battlefields and the capitalists leaders are already trying to come to an under- 
standing for the purpose of suppressing with united forces those that remain 
alive, when they call to account the criminals who caused the war ! 

However, Mr. President, since we do not at all desire to wage war against the 
United States, even though your Government has not yet been replaced by a 
Council of People's Commissaries and your post is not yet taken by Eugene 
Debs, whom you have imprisoned ; since we do not at all desire to wage war 
against England, even though the cabinet of Mr. Lloyd-George has not yet 
been replaced by a Council of People's Commissaries with MacLean at its 
head ; since we have no desire to wage war against B>ance, even tliough the 
capitalist Government of Gleraenceau has not yet been replaced by a workmen's 
Government of Merheim, just as we have concluded peace with the imperialist 
government of Germany, with Emperor AYilhelm at its head, whom you, Mr. 
President, hold in no greater esteem than we, the ^\'ln•kmen's and Peasant's 
Revolutionary Government hold you, we finally propose to you, Mr. President, 
that you take up with your Allies the following questions and give us- precise 
and business-like rejilies: Do the governments of the United States, England 
and France intend to cease demanding the blood of tlie Russian people and 
lives of Russian citizens, if the Russian people will agree to pay them a ransom, 
such as a man who has been suddenly attacked pays to the one who attacked 
him? If so, just what tribute do the governments of the United States, Eng- 
land and France demand of the Russian people? Do they demand concessions, 
that the railways, mines, gold deposits, etc., shall be handed over to them on 
certain conditions, or do they demand territorial concessions, stome part of 
Siberia or Caucasia, or ])eriiaps the Murmansk coast? 

We expect from you, Mr. President, that you will definitely state what you 
and your Allies demand, and also whether the allowance between your govern- 
ment and the governments of the other entente powers is in the nature of 
a combination which could be compared with a corporation for drawing divi- 
dends from Russia, or does your government and the other governments of the 
entante powers have each separate and special demands, and what are they? 
Particularly are we interested to know the demands of your French Allies 
with regard to the three billions of rubles which the Paris banlrers loaned to 
the Government of the Czar — the oppressor of Russia and the enemy of his 
own people? And you, Mr. President, as well as your French Allies surely 
know that even if you and your allies should succeed in enslaving and covering 
with blood the whole territory of Russia — which will not be allowed by our 
heroic revolutionary Red Army — that even in that case the Russian people, 
worn out by the war and not having sufficient time to take advantage of the 
beneljts of the Soviet rule to elevate their national economy, will be unable to 
pay to the French bankers the full tribute for the billions that were used by 
the Government of the Czar for puiiaoses Injurious to the people. Do your 
French allies demand that a part of this tribute be paid in installments, and 
if so. what part, and do they anticipate that their claims will result In similar 
claims by other creditors of the infamous Government of the Czar which has 
been overthrown by the Russian people? We can hardly think that your Gov- 
eernment and your allies are without a ready answer, when your and their 
troops are trying to advance on our territory with the evident object of seizing 
and enslaving our country. 

The Rus.slan people through the People's Red Army, are guarding their 
territory and are bravely fighting against your Invasion and against the attack 
of your Allies. But your Government and the Governments of the other powers 
of the Entente undoubtedly have well prepared plans, for the sake of which you 
are shedding the blood of your soldiers. We expect that you will state your 
demands very clearly and definitely. Should we, however, be disappointed, 
should you fall to reply to our quite definite and precise questions, we wIU 
draw the only possible conclusion — that we ari' justified in the assumption 


that your Government and the Governments of your Allies desire to get from 
the Russian people a tribute both in money and in natural resources of Russia, 
and territorial concessions as well. We vdll tell this to the Russian people as 
well as to the tolling masses of other countries, and the absence of a reply 
from you will serve for us as a silent reply. The Russian people will then 
understand that the demands of your Government and of the Governments 
of your Allies are so severe and vast that you do not even want to communi- 
cate them to the Russian Government. 

People's Commissary of Foreign Affairs, 


Mr. Stevenson. The principal publications of the Bolshevikl in New York 
City are the Novy Mir 

Senator Nelson. In what language is that? 

Mr. STEVENSON'. Russian. The Workman and Peasant. 

Senator Overman. What does "Novy Mir" mean? 

Mr. Stevenson. The New Era or New Life. These are the accredited official 
organs in this country of the Bolsheviki government. 

The Bolsheviki have organized in this country Soviets. Each industrial cen- 
ter in the United States now has its soviet. 

Senator Nelson. Is that so? 

Mr. Stevenson. And, of course, the plan of the propagandists is to extend 
their influence until they can take on the functions of government. 

Senator Nelson. What is their system of organization in each case? 

Mr. Stex^enson. It is merely the election of delegates to a central committee. 
That is what the soviet is. 

Senator Nelson. Have they not local organizations? Have they not a local 

Mr. Stevenson. The central committee is the governing committee; it acts 
as the government. 

Senator Nelson. Consisting of delegates from these various points? 

Mr. Stevenson. Yes. 

Senator O^-ekman. The idea, then, is to form a government within this Gtov- 

Mr. Stevenson. Precisely. 

Senator Overman. And to overthrow this Government? 

Mr. Stevenson. Precisely. I think that the record should contain a copy 
of the constitution of the Russian Socialist Federated Soviet Republic. 

Senator Overman. Will you give us the names of some of the heads of this 
soviet government? 

Mr. Stevenson. In this country? 

Senator Overman. Yes. 

Mr. Stevenson. Those are largely foreign^-s. They are largely Russians 
over here now. 

Senator Nelson. That constitution ought to go in, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Overman. Let me see that. 

Mr. Stevenson (handing paper to the chairman). You will find some extraor- 
dinarily interesting matter there. The disfranchisement of all persons who 
employ anybody or pay anyone any wages ; anyone who does that can not vote 
in the Soviet government. You will find some very interesting political ideas 

Senator Nelson. I think that would be a good thing to go into the record. 

Senator Overman. Yes; this will go in. 

(The constitution referred to is printed in the record, as follows:) 

[Outside of front cover.] 

Since intelligent judgment on the complex problems of Russia requires some 
knowledge of the purpose and methods of the Soviet Government (which is one 
of those rare things — a new event in history), we believe that our readers will 
be glad to have this opportunity to study critically an English translation 
(taken from a recent issue of the New York Tribune) of the constitution of 
the Soviets. It has been generally reco^ized in America that so much progress 
has been made in Russia in working out this new conception of the state and 


its government. Even if the present Soviet Government should fall, or should 
learn by experience to modify some of its methods, the ideas embodied In this 
document are from henceforth a mighty force to be reckoned with in the world; 
and the document itself may well come to rank with the great declarations of 
history. 1918. 

[Inside of front cover.]' 

Read the following books: 

The Soviets at Work, by Nicolai Lenin. 

Political Parties in Russia, Nicolai Lenin. 

Our Revolution, Leon Trotzky. 

On Behalf of Russia, Arthur Ransom. 

The Soul of the Russian Revolution, by M. Olgin. 


The Soviet Constitution and Declabation or Rights and Duties. 



[Approved by the Commission of the Central Committee for Drafting the Constitution of 

the Soviets.] 

We, the laboring people of Russia, workmen, peasants, cossacks, soldiers and 
sailors, united in the councils of the Workmen's, Soldiers', Peasants' and Cos- 
sacks' delegates, declare in the persons of our plenipotentiary representatives, 
who have assembled at the Pan-Russian Congress of Soviets, the following rights 
and duties of the working and despoiled people: 

The economic subjection of the laboring classes by the possessors of the 
means and instruments of production, of the soil, machines, factories, railways, 
and raw materials — those basic sources of life — appears as the cause of all sorts 
of political oppression, economic spoliation, intellectual and moral enslavement 
of the laboring masses. 

The economic liberation of the working classes from the yoke of capitalism 
represents, therefore, the greatest task of our time, and must be accomplished 
at all costs. 

The liberation of the working classes must and can be the work of those 
classes themselves, who must unite for that purpose in the Soviets of the Work- 
men's, Soldiers', Peasants', and Cossacks' delegates. 

In order to put an end to every ill that oppresses humanity and in order to 
secure to labor all the rights belonging to it, we recognize that it is necessary 
to destroy the existing social structure, which rests upon private property in 
the soil and the means of production, in the spoliation and oppression of the 
laboring masses, and to substitute for it a Socialist structure. Then the whole 
earth, its surface and its depth, and all the means and instruments of produc- 
tion, created by the toll of the laboring classes, will belong by right of common 
property to the whole people, who are united in a fraternal association of 

Only by giving society a Socialist structure can the division of it into hostile 
classes be destroyed, only so can we put an end to the spoliation and oppression 
of men by men, of class by class ; and all men — ^placed upon an equality as to 
rights and duties — will contribute to the welfare of society according to their 
strength and capacities, and will receive from society according to their require- 

The complete liberation of the laboring classes from spoliation and oppres- 
sion appears as a problem, not locally or nationally limited, but as a world 

^NoTE BY Majoe Humes at time of submitting this excerpt for inclusion in 
RECORD OF " Bolshevik Propaganda." — " The above form of constitution is apparently a 
preliminary draft of that instrument. The final draft was adopted on July 10, 1918, 
and appears in the present volume immediately preceding the Appendix at the end. 


problem and it can be carried out to Its end only through the united exertions 
of workingmen of all lands. Therefore, the sacred duty rests upon the working 
class of every country to come to the assistance of the workingmen of other 
countries who have risen against the capitalistic structure of society. 

A Dictatorship of the Proletariat. 

The working class of Russia, true to the legacy of the Internationale, over- 
threw their bourgeoisie in October, 1917, and, with the help of the poorest 
peasantry, seized the powers of government. In establishing a dictatorship of 
the proletariat and the poorest peasantry, the working class resolved to wrest 
capital from the hands of the bourgeoisie, to unite all the means of produc- 
tion in the hands of the Socialist state and thus to increase as rapidly as 
possible the mass of productive forces. 

The first steps in that direction were: 

Abolition of property in land, declaration of the entire soil to be national 
property, and the distribution of it to the workmen without purchase money, 
upon the principle of equality in utilizing it. 

Declaration as national property of all forests, treasures of the earth and 
waters of general public utility, and all the belongings, whether animals or 
things, of the model farms and agricultural undertakings. 

Introduction of a law for the control of workmen and for the nationalization 
of a number of branches of industry. , 

Nationalization of the banks, which heretofore were one of the mightiest in- 
struments for the spoliation of society by capital. 

Repudiation of the loans which were contracted by the czar's government 
upon the account of the Russian people. 

Arming of the laborers and peasants and disarming of the propertied classes. 

Besides all this, the introduction of a universal obligation to work, for the 
purpose of eliminating the parasitic strata of society, is planned. 

As soon as production shall have been consolidated in the hands of the work- 
ing masses, united in a gigantic association, in which the development of every 
single Individual will appear as the condition for the development of all 
men ; as soon as the old bourgeois state with its classes and class hatred, is 
definitely superseded by a firmly established Socialist society which rests upon 
universal labor, upon the application and distribution of all productive forcea 
according to plan, and upon the solidarity of all its members, then, along with 
the disappearance of class differences, will disappear also the necessity for the 
dictatorship of the working classes and for state power as the instrument of 
class domination. 

These are the immediate internal problems of the Soviet republic. 

Tlw Tnternntional Policies of the fioviet Republic. 

In its relation to other nations the Soviet republic stands upon the principles 
of the first Internationale, which recognized truth, justice and morality as the 
foundation of its relations to all humanity, independent of race, religion, or 

The Socialist Soviet republic recognizes that wherever one member of the 
fiimily of humanity is oppressed all humanity is oppressed, and for that reason 
it proclaims and defends to the utmost the right of all nations to self- 
determination and thereby to the free choice of their destiny. 

It accords that right to all nations without exception, even to the hundreds 
of millions of laborers in Asia, Africa, in all colonies and the small countries 
who, down to the present day, have been oppressed and despoiled without pity 
by the ruling classes, by the so-called civilized nations. 

The Soviet republic has transformed into deeds the principles proclaimed 
before its existence. The right of Poland to self-determination having been 
recognized in the first days of the March revolution, after the overturn in 
October the Soviet republic proclaimed the full independence, of Finland and 
the right of the Ukraine, of Armenia, of all the people populating the territory 
of the former Russian empire, to their full self-determination. 

In its efforts to create a league — free and voluntary, and for that reason all 
the more complete and secure — of the working classes of all the peoples of 
Russia, the Soviet republic declared Itself a federal republic and offered to the 
laborers and peasants of every nation the opportunity to enter as members with 


equal rights into tlie fraternal family of the Republic of Soviets (through action 
taken) independently in the plenipotentiary sessions of their Soviets, to any 
extent and in whatever form they might wish. 

The Soviet RcpuWc's Basis of Peace. 

The Soviet republic has declared war upon war, not only in words, but also 
in deeds ; and in doing so it formally, and in the name of the working masses 
of Russia, announced its complete renunciation of all efforts at conquest and 
annexation, as well as all thought of oppressing small nations. At the same 
time, the Soviet republic, to prove the sincerity of the purposes, broke openly 
with the policy of secret diplomacy and secret treaties, and it proposed to all 
belligerent nations to conclude a general democratic peace without annexations 
or indemnities, upon the basis of the free self-determination of peoples. That 
standpoint is still firmly adhered to be the Soviet republic. 

Compelled by the policy of violence practised by the imperialisms of all the 
world, the Soviet republic is marshalling its forces for resistance against the 
growing demands of the robber packs of international capital, and it looks to 
the inevitable rebellion of the working classes for the solution of the question 
of how the nations can live peacefully together. The international Socialist 
rebellion alone, in which the laboring people of each state overthrow their own 
imperialists, puts an end to war once for all, and creates the conditions for the 
full realization of the solidarity of the working people of the entire world. 

The Rights and Duties of the Workers. 

Taking its stand upon the principles of the Internationale, the Soviet republic 
recognizes that there can be no rights without duties, and no duties without 
rights, and, therefore, proclaims at the same time, with the rights of the working 
classes in a rejuvenated society, the following outline of their duties : 

To fight everywhere and without sparing their strength for the complete 
power of the working classes, and to stamp out all attempts to restore the 
dominion of the despoilers and oppressors. 

To assist with all their strength in overcoming the depression caused by the 
war and the opposition of the bourgeoisie, and to cooperate in bringing about 
as speedy a recovery as possible of production in all branches of economy. 

To subordinate their personal and group interests to the Interests of all the 
working people of Russia and the whole world. 

To defend the republic of the Soviets, the only Socialist bulwark in the 
capitalistic world, from the attacks of international imperialism without spar- 
ing their own strength and even their own lives. 

To keep in mind always and everywhere the sacred duty of liberating labor 
from the domination of capital, and to strive for the establishment of a world- 
embracing fraternal league of working people. 

In proclaiming these rights and duties the Russian Socialist Republic of the 
Soviets calls upon the working classes of the entire world to accomplish their 
task to the very end, and in the faith that the Socialist ideal will soon be 
achieved to write upon their flags the old battle cry of the working people. 
Proletarians of all lands unite 
I/ong live the Socialist world revolution ! 




The fundamental problem of the constitution of the Russian Socialist Federal 
republic involves, in view of the present transition period, the establishment 
of a dictatorship of the urban and rural proletariat and the poorest peasantry, 
the power of the pan-Russian Soviet authority, the crushing of the bourgeoisie, 
the abolition of the spoliation of men by men and the introduction of Socialism 
in which there will be neither a division into classes nor a state authority. 

The Russian republic is the free Socialist society of all the working people 
of Russia, united in the urban and rural Soviets. 

The Soviets of those regions which diiferentiate themselves by a special form 
of existence and national character will be united into autonomous regional 


associations ruled by tlie sessioDS of the Soviets of tliose regions and their own 
executive organs. 

Tlie Soviet associations of the regions participate in the Russian Socialist 
republic upon the basis of federation, at tlie head of whch stands the pan- 
Eussian session of the Soviets and, in periods between the sessions, the pan- 
Knssian central executive committee. 



The right to vote and to be elected to the Soviets is enjoyed by the following 
•citizens of the Russian Socialists Soviet republic of both sexes who shall have 
completed their eighteenth year by the day of election : 

All who have acquired the means of living through labor that is productive 
and useful to society and are members of the trades associations, namely : 

(a) Laborers and employees of classes who are employed in industry, trade 
and agriculture. 

(b) Peasants and Cossack agricultural laborers who hire no labor. 

(c) Employees and laborers In the offices of the Soviet government. 

(d) Soldiers of the army and navy of the Soviets. 

(e) Citizens of the two previous categories who have to any degree lost 
their capacity to work. 

The following pei-pons enjoy neithei- the right to vote nor to be voted for, 
even though they belong to one of the categories enumerated above, namely : 

Persons who employ hired labor in order to obtain from it an increase of 
profits ; 

Persons who have an income without doing any work, such as interest from 
■capital, receipts from property, and so on. 

Private merchants, trade and commercial agents ; 

Employes of communities for religious worship ; 

Employes and agents of the former police, the gendarmerie corps and the 
Ochrana ; also members of the dynasty that formerly ruled Russia ; 

Persons who have in legal form been declared demented or mentally deficient 
and also deaf and dumb persons ; 

Persons who have been punished for selfish or dishonorable misdemeanors. 



The government is based upon the smallest settlements (villages and ham- 
lets), the inhabitants of which may elect one representative to each 100 

The rural Soviets are under the authority of the Soviets of the Wolosts (dis- 
tricts), and these latter under the Soviets of the TJjesd (larger regions). 

The urban and Ujesd Soviets elect delegates to .sessions of the government 
•of Oblast Soviets. Each of these bodies chooses independently its own execu- 
tive committee. 



The Pan-Russian Congress of Soviets consists of representatives of the urban 
Soviets (one delegate for each 25,000 voters) and representatives of the gov- 
•ernment congresses (one delegate for each 125,000 voters). 

The Pan-Russian Congress of Soviets will be called together by the Pan- 
Russian central executive committee at least twice a year. 

The extraordinary Pan-Russian Congress will be called together by the Pan- 
Russian central executive committee upon its own initiative or upon the demand 
of the Soviets of districts embracing at least one-third of the entire population 
•of the republic. 

The Pan-Russian Congress of Soviets elects the central executive committee 
of not more than 200 members. 

The Pan-Russian executive committee Is responsible to the Pan-Russian 
Congress of Soviets. 

85723—19 3 


The Pan-Russian Congress of Soviets is the highest power in the republic. 
In the period between its sessions that power is represented by the Pan-Russian 
central executive committee. 

Eleven Administrative Departments. 

It is further provided that the central executive committee shall be divided 
Into 11 colleges for administrative functions. There are : 

Foreign policies. 

Defense of the country (army and nav.y). 

Social order and security (militia), census of the people, registration of so- 
cieties and associations, fire department, insurance, organization of the Soviets. 


Public economy (with subsections for agriculture. Industry, and trade, 
finances, railways, food supply, state property and construction). 

Labor and social welfare. 

Education and enlightenment of the people. 

Public health. 

Post, telegraph and telephone. 

Federal and national affairs. 

Control and auditing. 

Mr. Stevenson. One could continue to give illustrations of the speeches made, 
and illustrations of the character of the propaganda ; but I hardly think It 
will be necessary to cumber the record with repetition. 

Senator Nelson. So far, with the exception of a few cases, they are all 
confined to foreigners, are they not? 

Mr. Stevenson. Except that the Socialists approve of that form of govern- 
ment in a great many instances. 

Senator Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Stevenson. And express sympathy for it in their publications, and are 
cooperating with the Bolsheviki. A casual glance at some of the Socialist 
papers will satisfy anyone that that is the case. 

Senator Nelson. There is a. community of interest? 

Mr. Stevenson. Distinctly. I think that the interesting point about the 
Bolsheviki, which might be brought out, is that prior to their propaganda we 
had these difCerent branches of radical thought, having somewhat conflicting 
principles so that they could not cooperate. 

Senator Nelson. Do you mean by that that instead of having all these organ- 
izations of various kind.s that we have had in this country, the Bolsheviki in 
Russia have succeeded in concentrating all the lye, one might say, into one 

Mr. Stevenson. Precisely, and for this reason, that all of the radical people 
believe that everyone should belong to the proletariat. 

Senator Nelsox. Yes. 

Jlr. Stevenson. The Bolsheviki say "Everything should belong to the prole- 
tariat ; the proletariat should take control now, and we will work out our theory 
afterwards." That makes a common platform for all of these radical groups 
to stand on, because the anarchist feels that if the proletariat gets control he 
can effect his theory, and the same is true of the various other groups of 
radical thinkers. 

Senator Nelson. Then they have really rendered a service to the various 
classes of reformers and progressives that we have here in this country, have 
they not? 

Mr. Stevenson. Apparently. 

Senator Nelson. In concentrating their doctrines into one formula? 

Mr. Stevenson. They have. 
* * * * * * * 

Maj. Humes. You have outlined In a general way the activities of the radical 
groups in this country, and from your study of the cause advocated by the 
radical groups in this country that you have referred to and what they are 
contending for, and your knowledge of the Soviet government In Russia and the 
activities in Russia, is It or is It not a fact that the elements that you have 
referred to In this country are the same elements that are now at war with and 
fighting In the field against American soldiers in Russia? 

Mr. Stevenson. They are the same element. 


Senator Nelson. They are not exactly the same crowd, but they have the 
same gospel? 

Mr. Stevenson. They are even the same crowd, Senator, because John Reed 
is the accredited representative of that government. 

Senator Nht-son. In this country? 

Mr. Stevenson. In this country ; and Albert Rhys Williams admits that he 
is a propagandist for that government in this country. 

Senator Nelson. Is Reed the official representative here? 

Mr. Stevenson. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Has !ie knocked at the door of the State Department? 

Mr. Ste\'enson. I believe that he tried to. I am not sure. I know that among 
his effects, however, he had the official forms supplied by the Soviet govern- 
ment for Soviet marriages and divorces, and all that sort of thing. 

Maj. Humes. What are the forms and the requirements for marriages and^ 
divorces under the Soviet government in Russia? 

Mr. Stevenson. Simply a statement before the proper commissary that they^ 
want to be married or that they want to be divorced. 

Senator Overman. Do they have as many wives as they want? 

Mr. Stevenson. In rotation. 

Maj. Humes. Polygamy is recognized, is it? 

Mr. Stevenson. I do not know about polygamy. I have not gone into the 
study of their social order quite as fully as that. 

Senator Nelson. That is, a man can marry and then get a divorce when he 
gets tired, and get another wife? 

Mr. Stevenson. Precisely. 

Senator Nelson. And keep up the operation? 

Mr. Stevenson. Yes. 

Senator Overman. Do you know whether they teach free love? 

Mr. Stevenson. They do. 

Ma.i. Humes. Can a divorce be secured upon the application of one party to 
the marriage, or has it to be by agreement? 

Mr. Stevenson. I think by one party. 

Maj. Humes. By either party? 

Mr. Stevenson. By either party. 

Maj. Humes. They can renounce the marital bond at will? 

Mr. Stevenson. Precisely. 

Maj. Humes. Do you know whether or not the element that is active in this 
country is advocating the same thing here in their public speeches, or their 

Mr. Stevenson. In considerable of the literature some of the element has 
done so. I will not say that all have. 

Maj. Humes. The committee asked you yesterday to rearrange the "Who's 
Who." Has that work been completed so that it can be submitted to the com- 

Mr. Stevenson. It has been practically completed, Major. 

Maj. Humes. You have not fully completed it? 

Mr. Stevenson. We will have it completed very shortly. It is more of a task 
than I realized at first. 

Maj. Humes. But it will be completed for submission for the -record later in 
the day? 

Mr. Stevenson. Yes. 

Maj. Humes. I think that Is all I have to ask, unless the committee has 
something further. 

Senator Overman. You think this movement is growing constantly in this 
Mr. Stevenson. I think so. 

Senator Overman. Rapidly or slowly? 

Mr. Stevenson. I think it is growing rather rapidly, if we can gauge it by the 
amount of literature that is distributed and the number of meetings held. It is 
a very indefinite sort of thing. It Is extremely difficult to state how effective 
these sheets are. 

Senator Overman. You have not discovered that it is growing among the 
American population; it is more among the foreigners, is it not? 

Mr. Stevenson. Well, the Rand School of Social Science publishes all of these 
works, like the Letters from Lenin, and that sort of thing, and that is made up 
very largely of American citizens, such as Charles Andrew Beard, Henry Wads- 
worth Dana, Algernon Lee, and Scott Nearing. 


Senator Kklsox. Do you reRarrl this propaganda as a menace to our country? 

Mr. Ste\'enson'. Decidedly. I conceive it to be the gravest menace to the 
country to-day. 

Senator Oveeman. Tour idea is that these people are conducting In tlii.s coun- 
try an organization within this country for the overthrow of its Government, 
carrying the red flag, and with the cry "Down with capitalists" as the prin- 
cipal teaching? 

Blr. Stevenson. That is true. 

Senator Nelson. You have given us a good diagnosis. Now, can you give us 
any remedy or suggest any remedy for It? 

Mr. STE^fENsoN. It strikes me, Senator, that there are several things which 
might be done. 

In the first place, I think that the foreign agitators should be deported. I 
think the bars should be put up to exclude seditious literature from the country. 
There is practically no way now to stop this material from coming in. 

I think that American citizens who advocate revolution should be punished 
under a law drawn for that purpose. 

Senator Overman. Then you will hear somebody in the Senate talking about 
freedom of speech, will you not? 

Mr. Stevenson. Yes ; but revolution is somewhat different from freedom of 

I think, however, that that would not be sufficient. I think that one of the 
things that must be carried on is a counter-propaganda campaign. 

Senator Nelson. An educational campaign? 

Mr. Stevenson. A campaign of education. I think that you must employ the 
same weapons that they employ. 

The thing that has impressed me more than anything else is that you see all 
of these papers, all of these documents, and you hear of all of these speeches 
and meetings, and you do not see a scratch of the pen that reaches these people, 
hardly, to disprove the arguments which are put forth by these papers. 

Senator Nelson. But do you find much in our public press, the daily press, 
the weekly press, or our monthlies, that calls the attention of the American 
people to these things and points out the danger of them? 

Mr. Stevenson. Not until very recently. Senator. We have seen this move- 
merit grow up for the last year and a half in the foreign-language press, and 
now it has extended to all these other papers. It seems to me that our teachers 
in the public schools should be trained to combat this thing; and still further, 
I think if you go back into history you will find a very Interesting parallel in 
the United States to the condition which we find here now. You will remember 
that in about 1791 or 1792 or 1793, somewhere along there, we had the great 
whisky rebellion in western Pennsylvania. That whisky rebellion was brought 
about through the agitation of civil liberties bureaus, which were the reflex of 
the Jacobean clubs in France, and In the Life of Washington by John Marshall, 
he makes a very interesting observation on the fact that as soon as Eobespiere 
was guillotined In France, and the Jacobean clubs lost their power. Immediately 
in the United States there came the dissolution of these democratic societies. 
And it seemed to be that there was a lesson for us to-day In that : That so long 
as the Bolsheviki control and dominate the millions of Europe, so long that is 
going to be a constant menace and encouragement to the radical and dissatisfied 
elements In this country. 

* * K: ^i- * ,( 4: 

Thereupon the subcommittee proceeded to take testimony. 


(The witness was sworn by the chairman.) 
Maj. Humes. Doctor, where do you reside? 
Mr. HtTNTiNGTON. With my parents in Elizabeth, A". J. 
Maj. Humes. Are you connected with any department of the Gov- 
ernment ? 

Mr. Huntington. With the Department of Commerce. 

Senator WoLCOTT. May I interrupt ? Doctor, what is your degree? 

Mr. Huntington. Doctor of engineering. 


Maj. Humes. From what institution? 

Mr. Huntington. From the Royal Technical College, Aix la 
Chappelle, in Ehenish Prussia. 

Ma]. Humes. Have you a degree from any institution in this 
country ? 

Mr. Huntington. From the Columbia University; mechanical 

Senator Wolcott. Your degree from the foreign institution was a 
postgraduate degree? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes, sir; a postgraduate degree. 

Senator Wolcott. What is your degree from Columbia ? 

Mr. Huntington. Mechanical engineer. 

Senator Wolcott. And your foreign degree is doctor of engineer- 

Mr. Huntington. Engineering. 

Maj. HuJiEs. Were you attached to the American Embassy in Pet- 
rograd at any time? 

Mr. Huntington. I was designated to the embassy as the commer- 
cial attache of the Department of Commerce. 

Maj. Humes. During what period of time were you serving in 
that capacity? 

Mr. Huntington. From June, 1916, until September, 1918. 

Maj. Humes. Were you in Russia during all that time? 

Mr. Huntington. During the entire period. 

Maj. Humes. In what parts of Russia were you during that period? 

Mr. Huntington. I began my work in Petrograd. Subsequently, 
following instructions of my department, I traveled over, in the 
summer of 1916, very nearly the whole of European Russia, that is 
from Archangel as far south as Tiflis in the Caucasus, and as far 
west as Finland, and down the Volga. 

Senator Nelson. Were you in the Ukraine? 

Mr. Huntington. At that period, yes, sir ; in 1916. 

Senator Nelson. And in Little Russia ? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes, that is practically the same thing. 

Senator Nelson. And in Great Russia ? 

Mr. Huntington. In Great Russia, yes. That is the part which 
contains Petrograd and Moscow. 

Senator Overman. Go ahead. 

Mr. Huntington. Following that trip about Russia, which con- 
sumed something over two months at that* time, I remained in Petro- 
grad, only visiting Moscow for a period of time ; and then in February 
of 1918, when the allied embassies all left Petrograd, I was sent out 
by Mr. Francis, the American ambassador, to Siberia. So that in the 
months of March and April, 1918, 1 lived in Siberia. 

I returned again, on instructions of the ambassador, from Siberia 
to Moscow, arriving there about the 1st of May, 1918, and remained 
in Moscow until the 26th of August, when the American consulate 
general, the Italian consulate general, the military mission, with 
certain exceptions, one man in each case, and the IBelgians, repre- 
sented, as it finally happened, by one man, their consul general, were 
permitted to leave, with the American civilians, the confines of Rus- 

Senator Nelson. Wliere did you go in Siberia? 


Mr. HuNTixGTOx. Primarily to Irkutsk, which is the capital of 

Eastern Siberia. 

Senator Nelson. That is in the eastern part of Siberia, on the west 
side of Lake Baikal ? 

Mr. Huntington. Irkutsk, yes. I have also been around the lake 
once, and I also went to Verkhne Udinsk. 

Senator Nelson. Were you at Kiakhata ? 

Mr. Huntington. I have never been there. 

Senator Nelson. Were you down the river at all ? 

Mr. Huntington. Although I have been on the river on a boat, I 
ha\-e never been on it to go for any distance. 

Senator Nelson. Were you down as far as the station at the mouth 
of the Usuri River? 

Mr. Huntington. No, sir. 

Maj. Humes. Will you state what the conditions were as you ob- 
served and found them during your stay in Russia, and especially 
outline and give the committee any facts that you have in reference 
to the actual application of the Soviet government after the revolu- 
tion. Outline the conditions just as you found them from time to 
time at the various points you are familiar with. 

Senator Wolcott. Before you proceed to answer that question: 
You say that jou left Moscow along with members of the Italian 
consulate and others? 

Mr. Huntington. There was a special train made up on that occa- 
sion, composed of the staff of the American consulate general, of 
American citizens who comprised chiefly, but not all, the employees 
of the Y. M. C. A. and of the employees of the National City Bank, 
which had a considerable staff, and a few others; the Italian repre- 
sentatives, chiefly the Italian military mission, with their wives, and 
the Belgians. * 

As a matter of fact, only one Belgian, the consul general, came. 
They had not a very large representation in the country at that time. 
They were the three nationalities to go on that train. 

Senator Wolcott. You used the expression that you were permit- 
ted to leave. Were these various officials required to leave, in any 
wise ? Were they requested to leave, or was the desire on their part 
to leave, and was it that they got the permission to get this train 
and thus get out? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes; the last is the case. They had arrived at 
a sort of impasse where they were no longer able to perform their 
functions; so they requested, through the neutral powers — that is, 
each one of the allied Governments was at that time under the pro- 
tection of a neutral power, and they requested — permission to leave 
the country. I say " finally allowed to leave," because there were 
some negotiations on the subject, and the leaving was made con- 
tingent upon certain counter concessions to the representatives of 
the Bolsheviki government in other countries. This is a chapter of 
the political history which, unless you care to have me, I will not go 

Senator King. The fact is that they murdered — the Bolsheviki 
murdered — the British representative, and they made the lives of 
the representatives of the other nations, including our own ambassa- 
dor, so intolerable, and there was such a constant menace over them, 


that they were compelled to leave? Is not that a fact, that they mur- 
dered the British officer? I will ask you that first. I had several 
questions in one. 

Mr. Htjntington. Rather than to answer that directly, I should 
say that a party of the Bolsheviki Eed Guard, under a commissar, 
came to the British Embassy and eame into the embassy, which of 
course is always recognized as the ground, in every part of the civil- 
ized world, of the power at home — that is, the British Embassy or 
the American Embassy is a piece of British soil or of America, as 
the case may be, in the foreign country — they came in with arms, 
intent on making a raid on the embassy, whereupon the British naval 
officer in question, who was there, warned them to leave. They came 
on and he opened fire on them, defending his own embassy. 

Senator Nelson. Were you there, and did you see that? 

Mr. Huntington. No, sir. At that time I was some miles from 
Petrograd, a very short distance away, in a border town at the Fin- 
nish border, the name of which in English is White Island. It is 
about a half an hour distant from Petrograd. The news was brought 
to us at that point. 

Senator King. The officer was killed? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes. 
. Senator King. You did not state that fact. 

Mr. Huntington. Yes; of course he was killed. 

Senator King. Our ambassador is not there, in Petrograd or in 
Moscow ? 

Mr. Huntington. At this moment? 

Senator King. Yes. 

Mr. Huntington. Oh, no sir. 

Senator King. He and others were driven out, or conditions were 
so intolerable that they left, many, many months ago ? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes; the conditions were made such that they 
could not remain. 

Senator King. And one of our representatives now is in jail, or 
imprisoned by the Soviet, or by the Bolsheviki ? 

Mr. Huntington. I understand that the former United States 
consul in Petrograd is in prison in Turkestan. 

Senator Nelson. Did you meet Mr. Leonard, of Minnesota, who was 
attached to the service over there? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes ; on a number of occasions. 

Senator Steeling. Is Ambassador Francis in Russia still? 

Mr. Huntington. No, sir ; he has been in London, and was called, 
so the newspapers stated, to Paris for a conference with our repre- 
sentatives there. Whether he has returned to London I am not cer- 
tain. I know no more of his movements there than what the news- 
papers have told us. 

Senator Steeling. He remained there some time after the other 
legations had left ? 

Mr. Huntington. In Russia ? 

Senator Steeling. In Russia; not at Petrograd, but in Russia? 

Mr. Huntington. I should explain that, sir, by saying that the 
allied ambassadors and ministers in council had agreed at one time 
to leave Petrograd, and had about agreed to leave the country ; that 
some of them took steps to do so; that Ambassador Francis finally 


decided not to leave Kussian soil, but transferred his embassy to a 
town about 360 or 360 miles east of Petrograd, called Vologda. 

Senator Nelson. That is at the railroad junction on the route from 
Archangel to East Siberia? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes, it is at the junction between the north and 
south route to Archangel and the east and west route to Siberia. 
There he was joined by the other allied representatives. 

Senator Nelson. How far east of Petrograd is that point? 

Mr. Huntington. My memory tells me it is 360 mUes. I think 
I am nearly right. 

Senator Nelson. Yes; and it is about due south from Archangel? 

Mr. Huntington. Very nearly due south. 

Senator Nelson. What is the distance from Archangel ? 

Mr. Huntington. It is very nearly the same ; perhaps a little more. 
The total distance to Archangel is 760 miles, so that I should say it 
was about 400 miles from Archangel to Vologda. 

Senator Sterling. Do you know whether any of the other repre- 
sentatives were intercepted in their attempts to get out of the country, 
or delaj'ed by the Bolsheviki ? 

Mr. Huntington. In February, do you mean, or do you mean later 
on in the last time ; in the last of August, when I described the de- 
parture of the Americans, Italians, and Belgians ? 

Senator Steeling. On either occasion were they delayed or pre- 

Mr. Huntington. About the time in February I can not state in 
detail, or from direct personal knowledge, since I left on the train 
which took most of the American representatives out east, and was 
sent subsequently with that train by the ambassador to Siberia. 

Senator Overman. Why did the American representatives leave? 

Mr. Huntington. At that time, sir? 

Senator Overman. Yes ; at any time. Why did they leave Kussia ? 

Mr. Huntington. There were two situations existing, if I may be- 
allowed to say, at those times. 

Senator Overman. Yes; that is what I want to know. Why did 
they leave there ? We were at peace with them. 

Mr. Huntington. So far as February was concerned, the immedi- 
ate cause of leaving Petrograd was the feared German advance on 
the town. The Germans were very near by in the Baltic Provinces,, 
and the advices were such as to cause very great fear that they 
would come to Petrograd. That was shared more or less by all, and 
it was the cause also of the removal of the Bolshevik government 
from Moscow at the same period. 

Senator King. Senator Overman wants to know why our repre- 
sentatives and the representatives of other nations finally left Eussia. 

Mr. Huntington. Why they left Petrograd at that time? 

Senator King. No ; why did the representatives leave Russia at all ? 
Why are not the representatives of foreign Governments there now ? 

Mr. Huntington. Simply because their treatment of the foreign 
Governments is such as to make functioning as a Government repre- 
sentative there at this moment impossible. 

Senator Nelson. Were they not actually ordered out of the coun- 
try, finally? Now, is not this the situation, that when they were 
threatened with the German advance to Petrograd, the Bolshevik 


government and the foreign representatives all retired to Moscow 
and remained there for a while, and finally the foreign representatives 
were compelled to leave Moscow ? 

Mr. Huntington. Not quite so, Senator. In February, when the 
German advance was expected, the American Embassy divided into 
two parts, a larger part and a smaller part, the smaller part con- 
taining the ambassador and one or two officers who stayed with him, 
and the larger part, containing some of the citizens — the conditions 
in Eussia having become very anarchical at that time, so that it was 
thought very dangerous for the average person who had not official 
business there to remain — we sent east in trains thatv passed out finally 
through Siberia. The remaining, smaller section of the embassy 
staff, composed of the ambassador and two or three of his secretaries, 
proceeded after a day or two — those dates could be supplied — to the 
town of "Vologda and remained there until, I should say — I should 
wish to check this date absolutely ; it will be on file here in the appro- 
priate department — I think until July, when the ambassador and the 
allied embassies and legations left Vologda for Archangel. 

Senator Nelson. Vologda is northeast of Moscow, is it not? 

Mr. HtTNTiNGTON. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. About how far? 

Mr. Huntington. About 250 miles. 

Senator Nelson. So that our people retired from Moscow up to 
that railroad junction? 

Mr. Huntington. No, sir; our embassy at that time did not go to 
Moscow. Our embassy, what was left of it,- was directed to Vologda. 
The representatives that we had in Moscow were those of the Ameri- 
can consulate general always stationed at that place and who did not 
change their station. 

Senator Nelson. Among them was Mr. Leonard? 

Mr. Huntington. Mr. Leonard was a vice consul on the staff of 
the American consul general. 

Senator Overman. Were you there when Mr. Summers died? 

Mr. Huntington. Mr. Summers died while I was en route to join 
him. I learned of his death while passing through Vologda, on the 
way to Moscow. 

Senator King. Would you prefer, Doctor, to proceed in your own 
way, giving a narrative and your testimony chronologically, or to 
submit to these rather irregular interruptions, which must disturb 
the chronological sequence of it? 

Mr. Huntington. I had thought, if it was agreeable to you, to 
make a brief chronological record and then submit to any cross- 

Senator King. I suggest, Mr. Chairman, that he go on in that way. 

Senator Overman. Proceed in that way, Mr. Huntington. 

Mr. Huntington. As I understand it, what I am asked to appear 
here and do is to tell as honestly and truthfully as I may what I know 
of the theory aiid practice of the so-called Bolsheviki government in 

I was sent to Eussia in 1916 as a commercial attache of the Depart- 
ment of Commerce, accredited to the American Embassy. That 
means that I was sent there as a Government employee. I had been 
previously for two years in the Government employ in similar work. 


I was sent to Russia to do my part in developing Russian- American 
trade relations. 

I took, up my quarters in the American Embassy, where my office 
was situated, and was in constant touch with the ambassador and the 
embassy's staff, so that I had rather unusual opportunities to observe 
and study. 

I spent eight months under the so-called regime — that is, under 
the regime of the Czar Nicolas, from June, 1916, to March, 1917. On 
the Russian New Year's Day, 1917, I was presented, with the other 
members of the staff, to the Emperor. 

In March the same Emperor had abdicated, and a very nearly 
bloodless revolution took place, after which, first, the provisional gov- 
ernment of Russia was formed. I then lived under this government 
and its successors from March until November of 1917. 

In November of 1917 came, after long preparation, the coup d'etat 
of the so-called Bolshevik party, and this coup d'etat was successful ; 
and I then lived under the Bolshevik regime from November of 1917 
until September 1, to be accurate, of 1918. 

Senator Nelson. Was it not the Kerensky government that suc- 
ceeded the Czar's government in March, until November ? 

Mr. Huntington. It is most often called the Kerensky government 
because of the fact that Kerensky's name was the outstanding name. 
Kerensky was npt the premier of the first provisional government, 
but sat in it as the minister of justice, and his star was a rising one. 
His influence grew, or the influence which was attributed to him, so 
that in the succeeding combinations 

Senator Nelson. I do not want to interrupt you, only my under- 
standing is, and I want to bring that before you, that the real 
Bolshevik government did not succeed until in the fall of 1917. 

Mr. Huntington. That is very clear, sir. They did not come in — 
were not able to gain the power — until eight months after the Rus- 
sian revolution in March, 1917. 

Beginning with June of 1916, and from that time onward, I had, 
first, upwards of two months in Petrograd, and then over two months 
traveling. The country was at war. At that period we were not, so 
that the contrast was especially sharp to me who had come from a 
peace country. 

The transportation system was hopelessly overloaded. Russia is 
weakly economically developed for her size, anyhow, being chiefly a 
peasant country, a farming country, although some phases of indus- 
try are strongly developed. But in general the economic and busi- 
ness apparatus is a weak one. 

The transportation was overloaded, which caused food difficulty. 

In manufacturing, munition manufacturing was going on as best 
they could, but still not enough. There was profiteering ; there was 
corruption ; there were reports widely circulated of German intrigue 
in high circles. The country at large was hard at work at war. Or- 
dinary society as we know it was very much disturbed, mothers and 
daughters of families being in the hospitals, and the fathers and 
sons being at the front. 

The losses were very great, and there were all the attendant conse- 
quences of war. 


Senator Wolcott. May I interject a question here? From your 
observation do you think you are prepared to express an opinion as 
to the wholeheartedness oi the Russian people who came under your 
observation, in support of the war at that time ? 
. Mr. Huntington. Those with whom I came in contact in the 
towns, yes. The Russian peasant with whom I had contact as time 
went on was, as the Russian peasant is, as a man, a local man, a man 
with a very narrow vision, a man who has never had any oppor- 
tunity, and as far as that permitted he was interested in the war. It 
was always pointed out, universally, that the war as compared to 
the very disastrous Japanese war, was a popular war, a people's war. 

Senator Wolcott. So that you think the statement that before the 
Czar abdicated the Russian people were as enthusiastic in favor of 
the war as could be, to be a just statement, do you ? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes. 

Senator Overman. Proceed with your story. 

Mr. Huntington. At that time I traveled throughout Russia, and 
in going through the provincial towns was able to go into many shops 
and stores as a commercial traveler, so to speak, and to see the absence 
of goods; was able to see the building operations held up, large 
buildings in various parts of Russia, in the large towns, with scaffold- 
ing about them, that could not go on for lack of material and labor; 
was able to see how overloaded the railroads were ; was able to see the 
graft which was used to get shipments made ; was able to see the work 
which the Zemstvo organizations were doing, and without which the 
war would not have gone on — they and the war industry committees 
were in helping the Government ; was able to see how hard hit, under 
the surface, Russia was, as a weakly organized economic and manu- 
facturing country, having to put into the field the millions of soldiers 
which she did. 

Senator Nelson. You speak and understand the Russian language? 

Mr. Huntington. For ordinary conversational purposes, and for 
reading the newspapers, yes. For reading economic books, yes. To 
gain a perfect knowledge of the language several years would be 
required, and I do not claim to have a perfect knowledge of the lan- 

Senator Steeling. I would like to have you at some time — you may 
have it in mind to do so later — describe the Zemstvo and the authority 
of the Zemstvo, and how it is constituted. 

Mr. Huntington. I think that could be brought out later. I 
should prefer, myself, to have documents to explain that. 

Senator Steeling. Very well. 

Senator Oveeman. Go on with your story. 

Mr- Huntington. This situation which I have described, the bad 
transportation, and the heavy load of the war, failure on the front 
due to the lack of materiel, the soldiers not being provided with arms 
and elementary things which they needed, went on. As the winter 
drew on, the effect of this grew every day. I lived in an apartment, 
and was able, through my servants, who taught me my first Russian, 
to find out what difficulties they had in getting food in the shops. 

Finally, in February and March the situation got to a head. A 
general strike broke out of the workmen. 

Senator Wolcott. This was in 1917? 


Mr. HiTNTiNGTON. 1917. They could not quell it. The food ques- 
tion was too acute. There was a universal feeling amongst the masses 
that there was corruption; that nothing was being done. I had that 
at that time from the servants, from the common people of the em- 
bassy and my house, with whom I had come in contact. It was 
talked about in stores and shops, and on the streets, that there was 
corruption, and that the Germans were keeping food from the 
people, and that sort of thing. There were parades in these strikes, 
and Cossack soldiers were ordered out to stop those parades. For- 
merly, in years gone by, they would have drawn their weapons and 
would have fired, if necessary. At this time they did neither. They 
rode up onto the sidewalks very gently and pushed people off without 
hurting anybody. If they gathered too much they grinned. They 
did not hurt anyone. It was freely stated to me by the people, by my 
servants, that they would not fire, and it was known that they would 
not fire; and before any of us who had not been through similar 
things before, knew it, there was mutiny in the regiments at Petro- 
grad followed by some street fighting. Then came the fighting with 
the police, the old police, which was the hardest fighting of all, with 
machine guns. They fought from the housetops. 

In a few days it was all over, and ,the first provisional government 
was formed from a committee of the Duma, which was the only i-ep- 
resentative organization that they had. 

Alongside of this provisional government there was immediately 
formed the organization of the Soviets, so-called — " soviet " being the 
Russian word for " council " — of workmen and soldiers, on the model 
and pattern of the Soviets of 1905. These were primarily a move- 
ment of the so-called social democrats, primarily socialistic and not 
Bolshevistic, at that time. They aspirecl to put through policies and 
exercise an influence on the government. They did not aspire, at that 
period, to have members in the government, so far as I know, except- 
ing their member, Kerensky, who served as a link between them and 
the provisional government, sitting in both organizations. 

Senator Nelson. Tell us what the Soviets were. You have not 
done that yet. 

Mr. Huntington. The word soviet is merely the Eussian word for 
council. The Soviets were a form of group organizations which came 
about first in the revolution of 1905, at the time of the Russo-Japa- 
nese War, and which was not successful. 

In the revolution of 1917 the Soviets were by men who were inter- 
ested in this movement, formed, and immediately put one of their 
number, Kerensky, into the provisional government which was 
formed at the same time. They were not themselves the govern- 
ment, nor did they at that time aspire to be, but they aspired, as a 
political outer organization, to influence the government. 

Senator Nelson. It seems to me that your description, right here, 
is a little wrong. The situation is this, that the Russian peasants 
settled in villages and communities, called mirs, and those Soviets are 
organizations of those local communities. They constitute the Soviets. 
Those organizations of these local communities constitute the soviet, 
and these local communities send the representatives to the general 
soviet at the headquarters. Now, is not that the case ? 


Mr. Huntington. Yes; that grew to be somewhat the case except 
that, if only because of the very hugeness of the country and the 
ignorance of the peasants, it was never possible to organize them 
well, in fact. 

Senator Nelson. But your explanation did not cover that. 

Mr. Huntington. I did not intend, primarily, Senator, to go into 
this, because I did not care to specialize on this point, because I 
wanted to speak more on the economic side. 

Senator Nelson. Well 

Mr. Huntington. The soviet organizations began in the great 
cities ; began chiefly in Petrograd, which is the political center. They 
subsequently extended throughout the country. The trained leaders 
of the movement were in the towns, not in the country. 

The movement at first did not even include the peasants ; not even 
in its title. It was called " The Soviet of the Workmen and Soldiers.'' 
Of course, very many soldiers were peasants. Subsequently the titles 
of many local Soviets were changed to include the word " peasants." 

Presently the word " Cossack " was also used, but at that time in 
Petrograd the organization was not as developed as it subsequently 
became. There had not been time to extend it. 

Now, the new provisional government which came into power at 
that time found itself faced by the conditions which I have recited 
to you as having been seen by me from the time of my arrival in 1916, 
conditions of economic breakdown, breakdown of transportation and 
business and manufacturing, in a country weakly economically devel- 
oped, and at that time carrying on the greatest war in its history, 
with millions of men in the field, and unable to back those men up 
with arms, railway cars, and equipment. There was also the further 
difficulty of the so-called dual authority, that is of a government, but 
at the same time, along beside that government, the organization of 
the Soviets which aspired to control it and had their central executive 
committee in Petrograd, their local Soviets, as you say, in the prov- 
inces ; that was a political conflict which went on and which resulted 
in the changes from one government to the next which I would pre- 
fer not to discuss, since there are political students who can do that 
better than I, and resulted in the changing of the composition of the 
first government, resulted in their resignation and their replacement 
by other men. and resulted in the prominence, for a time, of Keren- 
sky, and finally resulted in the Bolshevik coup d'etat of November. 

in July of 1917 the situation had already, with the economic con- 
ditions growing constantly worse, become so tense that the Bolshe- 
viks, as the slang phras'e goes, tried their movement on, and there 
was for several days, in Petrograd, anarchy. That is, the government 
went into hiding, could not be found during that period, and troops, 
the local garrison, marched in the streets, groups of irresponsible 
men went around in motor trucks with machine guns, men were 
up in the top floors of houses, shooting out of the windows, etc. 

The only result of that was 16 dead horses, which I counted in the 
so-called Liteiny Prospect, one of the principal streets, and a Cos- 
sack funeral, the Cossacks having been sent out to bring kbout order. 

The Bolshevik group was active always in the soviet organization. 
The soviet, as I explained to you, was a movement primarily of 
workmen of the cities, later expanded to the peasants, and it was 


predominantly Menshevik — that is, the opposite of Bolshevik. The 
Bolsheviki were represented in' the soviet, took part in the debates, 
stood for certain principles, were outvoted and were a minority party 
in the soviet. 

Senator King. There were some bourgeois in the original soviet? 

Mr. Huntington. In the original Soviets there were verj' few. I 
do not know of any so-called bourgeois except for some intellectuals 
like Kerensky, if you like, and men of that type. 

I should qualify that, and say if you mean by bourgeois, the edu- 
cated men who have had greater opportunities in life, yes; there 
were several of those. 

Senator Nelson. Can you tell us how the Bolshevik revolution 
broke out in November, 1917? Can you tell us anything about that? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes, sir; I think so. I was present the entire 

After the " try-on " in July, which failed because the spirit was not 
worked up sufficienth', yet, to make it win, thej' were quiet for a 
time, and we went through further changes in the structure of the 
nominal government. 

Senator Nelson. By that, you mean the provisional government? 

Mr. Huntington. I mean the provisional government headed by 

Senator Nelson. Now, you have skipped an interregnum there, 
my friend. Under the Kerensky government they continued to make 
further war on German}' and to keep on, until finally the army of 
soldiers refused to fight and became demoralized. That was before 
the revolution of November, 1917. Now, is not that a fact? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes, sir; that is a fact. The changes in Petro- 
grad, the changes in the central government, had not been without 
influence on the army, very naturally, since war was the chief prob- 
lem before the government at that time, aside from being fed, and 
the change from the old regime, the change of discipline, the taking 
away of the former command, and the introduction into the army, by 
idealists like Kerensky, of untried principles of discipline, all con- 
spired to bring about disintegration and lack of interest. That was 
backed up constantly by the Bolshevik propaganda. The Bolshe- 
viki were working in the city of Petrograd principally, which was, 
of course, also the political head of Russia, and at the front, to 
break down the spirit of war, the spirit of carrying on the war, with 

Senator King. Pardon me, right there. Kerensky, Rodzianko, 
and Prince Lvoff, those who were controlling the provisional gov- 
ernment, were strong allies of France and England, and the op- 
ponents of the central powers, and anxious for Russia to do her part 
in the great struggle for the defeat of the central powers ? 

Mr. Huntington. There is no question about that. 

Senator King. And Germany had spies and agents in Russia, and 
they conspired with traitors in Russia for the purpose of disorganiz- 
ing the army, undermining the morale of the Russian people and 
finally compelling the withdrawal of Russia from participation in 
the war ? 

Mr. Huntington. That is correct, sir. 


Senator King. And the Bolsheviks were there leading the treason 
against their own government and against the allies ? 

Mr. Huntington. The Bolsheviks are internationalists, and they 
were not interested in the particular national ideals of Russia. 

Senator Overman. What was the nature of the propaganda? 
Can you tell us what that was? 

Mr. Huntington. Sending agitators, so called, and pamphlets, 
to the troops in the army throughout the campaign, telling them if 
they were to keep on fighting, they were fighting for imperialistic 
and selfish aims of world power by the allies, who were practically 
just as selfish in their aims as Germany was in hers. Also advising 
peasant soldiers to go home so as not to lose their share of the land 
which, they said, was being divided up. 

Senator King. Including the United States? 

Mr. Huntington. Including the United States. 

Senator King. They made as bitter an attack upon our Government 
as they did upon England and France ? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes. 

Senator King. And their object was to destroy us as it was to de- 
stroy the other allied Governments? 

Mr. HuNTiNGTON; Yes. 

Senator Oveeman. Can you tell us anything about their pamphlets 
and speeches? 

Senator King. Just one question. 

Senator Overman. Ygs. 

Senator Nelson. Their aim was to commit treason against the 
cause of the allied Governments, and in favor of Germany and 
Austria ; that is, to help Germany and Austria win the fight. 

Mr. Huntington. That would have to be stated differently, Sena- 
tor. Their aim was an aim of a group of fanatics who have their 
own game to play. They are perfectly willing to accept aid from 
Germany in playing that game. Germany had at all times had Russia 
honeycornbed with spies. Germany knew Russia better than any 
otlier country. Germany had more people within her borders and 
out who spoke Russian, and had studied Russia and had been in 
business in Russia, than any other country. 

The Bolsheviks were a party who believed in so-called interna- 
tionalism, who believed in the abolishment of war, who believed in 
the immediate establishment, in the bringing about, of the socialistic 
state, and were against this war because, as they say, they believed it 
to be a war of capitalists. They expected German money to win 
their cause, which was to stop the war. Germany used them as a 
military instrument to break down the military power in the east, 
and when she had broken it down, promptly threw her soldiers over 
to the west against us. 

Senator King. The Bolsheviks, then, were really allies of Germany 
and Austria? 

Mr. Huntington. They were, for practical purposes; from a 
military point of view, practically our point of view. 

Senator King. The Bolsheviks got the Russians to commit treason 
against their own Government and against the cause of the allies? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes; because they did not believe in the cause. 

Senator King. Yes. 


Mr. Huntington. Xeither did tlu'y wish the German cause to win, 
as such, because Germany to tliem is an imperialistic government, or 
was, and they were quite as anxious to destroy that government as to 
destroy' ours. They are a third party in the triangle of opinion, if 
you like, but as they themselves admit, they are quite unscrupulous 
in the means they take to gain their end ; so they were willing to take 
the German money and to use it for their own principles. 

Germany is a crook, who, as we have proven, is perfectly unscrupu- 
lous in the use of any means that offer, to gain her end ; and they, as 
equally good croolcs, or I think a little bit better, were using Ger- 
many to gain their end; so that we have the spectacle of these two 
using each other to gain their ends. 

Senator Overman. What was their statement about our country? 
What is their objection to our Government? 

Mr. Huntington. What is their objection to the Government? 

Senator Overman. Yes; to our Government. 

Mr. Huntington. Their objection is twofold. In the first place, 
we had joined in the war, and they were against the war. 

In the second place, we are not a socialistic Government, and they 
do not approve of us for that reason. 

Senator King. Is it not a fact that Trotsky and a number of other 
men who were in this country, undesirables, bad in every way, went 
back to Russia and did all they could to prejudice the Russian people 
against our country; that they denounced our country — Trotsky 
and others — as an imperialistic Government? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes; they did. 

Senator King. And they are just as bitterly opposed to the United 
States, to our representative form of government, and would destroy 
it just as quickly as tliej' would destroy that of any other country 
in the world? 

Mr. Huntington. Exactly. 

Senator King. And their purpose now is our destruction, as it is 
the destruction of all orderly governments through the world? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Is not this a fact — I want to bring it to your 
attention — that after the Kerensky government — I call it that for 
short — came into power temporarily they issued a general pardon for 
all offenders, especially those that had been sent to Siberia, and that 
Lenine was one of the men that was pardoned, and that he came 
back by way of Switzerland and was given a passport by the German 
authorities to come back to Russia? Do you know anything about 
that, or have you heard anything about it ? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes, sir; I have heard, and I remember per- 
fectly well when Mr. Lenine first began to come into Petrograd 
and speak on the streets. 

Senator Nelson. Did you not know that he was one of the men 
pardoned who Avns in Siberia, and that he came back by way of 
Switzerland ? 

Mr. Huntington. I do not believe Lenine was at this period in 
Siberia. He returned to Russia from Switzerland. 

Senator Nelson. And got a passport from the German authorities? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes ; he came into Petrograd. I can not remem 
ber the time when he began to come. He met, of course, at that time 
with gi-eat resistance. 


Senator Nelson. Did you ever see him? 

Mr. HrrNTiNGTON. Yes; for once, in the constituent assembly 
-which tried to meet and was dismissed. 
Senator Nelson. By him and Trotsky ? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes ; by Lenine and Trotsky. I sat at that time 
in the press gallery and looked down on him, not farther from him 
than you are this moment from me. 

Senator Nelson. Those two are the ringleaders of the Bolshevik 
movement, are they not? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes, they are the brains of the movement. 
Maj. Humes. Is it not a fact that Lenine in going from Switzer- 
land to Russia went through Germany? 
Mr. Huntington. Yes. , 

Maj. Humes. He was permitted td tf aver through Germany for 
the purpose of reaching Russia ? 
Mr. Huntington. Yes. 

Senator Overman. Did you hear him speak on the street? 
Ml-. Huntington. No ; t have never heard Lenine speak. I have 
heard Trotsky speak, on the street and in meetings of th6 Soviet. 

Senator Wolcott. Doctor, would this be a correct statement or 
way of summing up the purposes of this Bolshevik group as they 
existed at the time you have just been speaking of, namely,'that they 
were the enemies of all governments organized along lines other than 
those that met with their own fantastic notions ; and therefore they 
were the enemies of the United States or of the allied Govern- 
ments, and of Germany — enemies, I mean, to those forms of govern- 
ment ; that they found in their own country a people who were sym- 
pathetic with the allies, and in order to break that sympathy they 
accepted money from Germany, whose form of government they 
did not like, for the purpose of getting the Russian people in line 
with their socialistic notions; that they hoped to break down the 
allied sympathies in Russia, and then weld the Russians together into 
a Bolshevik government, expressing' the Bolshevik idea, in the hope 
that then they would have such strength as to carry their principles 
throughout the world and overthrow all established governments? 
Mr. Huntington. Yes ; that is true. I would like, if I could here, 
to read some statements of the Bolshevik government from this [in- 
dicating paper]. 

Senator Nelson. No, but, Mr. Chairman, if you will allow me; 
instead of getting this by piecemeal, if you can tell us — we can not 
stay here always — what the doctrines, and creed, and principles of 
government of the Bolshevik government are, that is what we would 
like to know, not these mere scattering quotations. 

Mr. Huntington. I can do that, sir. I would like, however, to 
read to you exactly what they say their own doctrines are. 

Senator Wolcott. It seems to me that is better than the doctor's 
interpretation of them. 

Mr. Huntington. In the first place, I have a circular here which 
I read at the time it came, which is an open circular. There is noth- 
ing secret about it. It is not diplomatic correspondence. It was 
sent to every embassy and legation in Petrograd. 
Senator Wolcott. Sent by whom? 

85723—19 i 


Mr. Huntington. The Bolshevik government then located in 
Petrograd. The matter at issue was the matter of diplomatic 

Senator Wolcott. What is the date of that ? 

Mr. Huntington. December 15, 1917. [Eeading:] 

From the people's commissariat of foreign afCairs. For the information of 
the allied and neutral embassies and legations. * * * The fact that the 
Soviet Government considers necessary diplomatic relations not only with the 
governments hut also with the revolutionary Socialist parties, which are stiiv- 
ing -for the overthrow of the existing governments, is not suflBcient ground for 
statements to the effect that " an unrecognized government " can not have 
diplomatic couriers. * * * 

This is their own statement in a circular letter. 

Senator Sterling. Who issued that letter? 

Mr. Huntington. The commissar for foreign affaits. 

Senator Steeling. Lenine and Trotsky were then at the head of 
the Bolshevik rule or government? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes. 

Senator Steeling. That was during their regime? 

Mr. Huntington. Oh, yes ; that was within a month of their com- 
ing into power. 

Senator Steeling. At that time Trotsky was the commissar for 
foreign affairs? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. The meat of that circular is simply this, that even 
if they had not been technically recognized as a de jure government,, 
they were in fact the government, and as such their couriers ought 
to have recognition. Is not that the substance of it ? 

Mr. Huntington. No, sir ; I beg your pardon. I think the meat 
of it is that they considered it necessary to have relations., and claimed 
the right to have relations, not only with established governments in 
our country and in other countries, but with the revolutionary so- 
cialist parties seeking to overthrow these governments. 

Senator Nelson. And did they not put it on the ground that they 
are a de facto government ? 

Mr. Huntington. I do not understand you, sir. 

Senator Nelson. Do you not understand a little law Latin ? 

Mr. Huntington. I have forgotten, mostly, what I knew. 

Senator Nelson. Do you know the difference between a de facto 
government and a de jure government? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes, sir; but the important thing for us is, in 
that statement, sir 

Senator Nelson. Go ahead ; go ahead. 

Senator Oveeman. Their purpose, then, was to overthrow all gov- 

Mr. Huntington. They say so. 

Senator Wolcott. That circular shows plainly their intention to 
overthrow all governments, and they wanted to establish relations with 
all revolutionary^ parties under these governments from which they 
were seeking vises for their couriers. That is the purpose of that, 
very clearly, to my mind. They did not pay any attention to the 
established governments. 

Mr. HuifTiNGTON. Again, from a statement from "their own lips: 
Sometime ago there was published in a paper called One Year of the 


Eevolutlon, published in this country, some diplomatic correspond- 
ence. I have tested this diplomatic correspondence to see whether 
it took place, and it did, and it is correctly given here. In the course 
of the reply of Mr. Tchitcherin, of which I have the date here in 
my notes, he said this [reading] : 

To the neutral legations who protested against the cruelties of the Bolshevik 
regime Mr. Tchitcherin, the commissar for foreign affairs, says : 

" We are convinced that the masses in all countries who are writhing under 
the oppression of a small group of exploiters will understand that in Russia, 
force is being used only in the holy cause of the liberation of the people, that 
they will not only understand us, but will follow our example." 

Senator Overman. What is that document you read from? 

Mr. Huntington. That is a letter written by Mr. George Tchit- 
cherin, commissar- of foreign affairs of the Bolshevik govermnent, 
to the neutral legations in Russia who protested against the cruel- 
ties of the Bolshevik regime. It is addressed in care of the Swiss 
minister, dated September 5. That is only one sentence in it. 

Senator Overman. But the document itself, was that printed in 
this country? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes ; it has been printed in this country. How 
it got through here I do not know, but it has escaped the censor- 
ship and been printed in this country, although a diplomatic docu- 

Senator Overman. What is the red flag on the back of that 

Mr. Huntington. That is the illustration on the cover. 

Senator Sterling. Have you that passage marked there, which you 

Mr. Huntington. Yes, sir. 

Maj. Humes. It was just after or about the time of the writing 
of that letter that all the representatives of the neutral Governments 
were compelled to leave Russia, 

Mr. Huntington. That was September 5 when that letter was 
written. We had just gone. The others followed us within a short 

Senator Overman. Were you compelled to leave, or did you leave 
from fear, or were you ordered to leave? 

Mr. Huntington. We left, sir, because we were unable to perform 
our functions. I mean by that that the diplomatic and consular 
officers could not longer treat with the de facto government; that 
they found it impossible to protect American citizens, which was a 
part of their function ; that they could not correspond with our Gov- 
ernment because it was forbidden. We were the only consulate gen- 
eral in Moscow allowed to send even a wireless, and we have found 
out since that most of the wireless messages we sent were not al- 
lowed to pass through. We have also found out that most of the 
wireless messages which were sent to us, which are serially numbered, 
never reached us. Being unable to communicate with our Govern- 
ments ; being treated with discourtesy ; being unable to protect the 
lives and property of our citizens resident there, we were scarcely in 
a position to render any service any more. The danger, as such, 
played no" part in the transaction at all, except for those who had 


no work to do. For us who had work to do, had we been able to con- 
tinue that work, the danger would have had nothing to do with it. 

Senator Overman. You were not threatened? 

Mr. Huntington. As a matter of fact, it was dangerous, of coui'se. 
The British Embassy representatives were put under ai'rest. The 
Americans were never, until the time we left, arrested, with the ex- 
ception of one man who was arrested in the town of Vologda and 
kept under arrest some 10 days before we knew of it. They never 
informed us. We found it out by accident. 

The British and French, however, including the consular officers, 
were arrested, both civilians and officials. It was in the manifest 
impossibility of doing any work, of accomplishing anything, of being 
allowed to communicate with our Government at home, being 

Senator Overman. Can you state to us the character of those cruel- 
ties and what was going on while j'ou were there — ^the extent of it ? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes ; I can to a considerable extent ; and in order 
to make you understand it, perhaps I could read again from the 
official proclamations of the Bolshevik government. Reading from 
the official newspapers of the Bolshevik government under date of 
September 2, there is the following — this was the day after we passed 
the border. 

Senator Nelson. September 2 of what year? 

Mr. Huntington. 1918. [Reading:] 

Murder of Volodarski and Urkitski — 

Urkitski was one of the terrorist commissars who, while our train 
was lying on the side track in the Finland Station, was shot by a 
young student who came into his office. [Continuing reading :] 

Murder of Volodarski and Urkitski, attempt on Lenin and shooting of masses 
of our comrades in Finland, Ukrania, the Don and Tshecko-Slovia, continual 
discovery of conspiracies in our rear, open acknowledgement of right social 
revolutionists party and other counter-revolutionary rascals of their part in 
these conspiracies, together with insignificant extent of serious repressions and 
shooting of masses of White Guard and bourgeoisie on the part of the Soviets, 
all these things show that notwithstanding frequent pronouncements urging 
mass terror against the social revolutionists. White Guards and bourgeoisie, no 
real terror exists. 

Such a situation should decidedly be stopped. End should be put to weakness 
arid softness. All right social revolutionists known to local Soviets should be 
arrested immediately. Numerous hostages should be taken from the bourgeois 
and officer classes. At the slightest attempt to resist or the slightest movement 
among the White Guards, shootings of masses of hostages should be begun 
without fail. Initiative in this matter rests especially with the local executive 

Through the militia and extraordinary commissions, all branches of govern- 
ment must take measures to seek out' and arrest persons hiding under false 
names and shoot without fail anybody conected with the work of the White 

All above measure should be put immediately into execution. Indecisive 
action on the part of local Soviets must be immediately reported to peoples 
commissar for home afiairs. Not the slightest hesitation or the slightest 
indecisiveness in using mass terror. 

That is an order from the commissar for home affairs to the 

Senator Overman. Explain who the White Guard are. 

Mr. Huntington. The White Guard are everybody except the 
lied Guard. The Eed Guard are nominally the loyal army, gathered 


around the Bolshevik government to fight the so-called class struggle 
for the social revolution. 

Senator Wolcott. The Eed Guard are the Bolsheviks and the 
White Guard are everybody else? 

Mr. Huntington. Practically speaking, that is it. " If you are not 
with us, you are against us." 

Senator Overman. Then that order was to shoot down everybody 
who was not with them ? 

Mr. Huntington. And to shoot hostages if anything happened to 
any of their people. 

On the 11th of September, about 10 days after our departure from 
Eussia, the following letter was received by Maj. Allen Wardwell, 
commanding the American Red Cross in Eussia. Because of the 
shooting of a large number of people in Petrograd, Maj. Wardwell 
had written a letter as a Eed Cross officer to the Bolshevik govern- 
ment, namely to the commissar for home affairs, Mr. Tchitcherin, 
protesting in the name of humanity against the killings, which did 
not take place in field fighting, but were shootings of people against 
brick walls. 

Senator Wolcott. Massacres ; murders ? 

Mr. Huntington: Yes. This letter is as follows: 

[Republique Russe Federative (Jps Soviets Commissariat du Peupie pour Les Affaires 
etrangeres Le 11 Septeml>re, 1918, Moscow.] 

Mr. Allen Waedwell, 

Major Commanding the American Red Cross. 

Deae Sib : It is only because the body which you represent is not a political 
organization that I can find it compatible with my position not to repudiate 
ofE hand your intervention as a displaced immixtion in the affairs of a for- 
eign state, but to enter in the friendly spirit corresponding to the character 
of your organization into a discussion of the matter involved. Tou affirm 
that your organization did not hesitate to condemn acts of barbarity on the 
part of our adversaries. Where are these utterances of condemnation? When 
and in vehat form did the American Red Cross protest \yhen the streets 
of Samars were filled with corpses of young workers shot in batches by 
America's allies or when the prisons' of Omsk were filled with tens of 
thousands of the flower of the working class and the best of them executed 
without trial or when just now in Novorossiisk the troops of England's 
mercenary AlexejefE murdered in cold blood seven thousand wounded who were 
left behind by our retreating army, or when the oossacks of the same Alexejeff 
murdered without distinction the young men of their own race in whom they 
see a revolutionary vanguard? I would be very glad to learn what the 
American Red Cross has done in order to publicly brand these untold atrocities, 
the everyflay work of our enemies, everywliere iiracticed liy them upon our 
friends when they have the power to do it. But are these the only atrocities 
around us? 

In a wider field, at the present period when the oligarchies who are the 
rulers of the world drench the earth with streams of blood, cover it with 
heaps of corpses and whole armies of maimed and fill the whole world with 
unspeakable sufferings, why do you turn your indignation against those who, 
rising against this whole system of violence, oppression, and murdei' that 
bears as If for the sake of mockery the name of civilization, those I repeat 
who in their desperate struggle against the ruling system of the present 
world are compelled by their very position in the furnace of a civil war to 
strike the class foes with whom the life and struggle is raging? And in a 
still wider field are not the sacrifices still greater, still more innumerable, 
which are exacted every day on the battlefield of labor by the ruling system 
of exploitation which grinds youth and life force and happiness of the multi- 
tude for the sake of the profits of the few? How can I characterize the 
humanity of the American Red Cross which is dumb to the system of every- 
day murder and turns against those who have dared to rise against It and 


surrounded by mortal enemies from all sides are compelled to strike? 
Against these fighters who have thrust themselves Into the flre of battle for 
a whole new system of human society you are not even able to be otherwise 
than unjust. Our adversaries are not executed as you affirm for holding 
other political views than ourselves, but for taking part in the most terrible 
of battles, in which no weapon is left untouched against us, no crime is left 
aside and no atrocities are considered too great when the power belongs to 
them. Is it not known to you that by the decree of September 3rd the death 
sentences are applied only for distinct crimes, and besides Randitism and 
ordinary crimes they are to be applied for participation in the white guard 
movement, that is the movement which helps to surround us everywhere 
with death snares, which unceasingly attacks us with fire and sword and 
every possible misfortune and wishes to prepare for us, if only it had the 
power to do so, complete extermination? 

You speak of execution of 500 persons in Petrograd as of one particularly 
striking instance of acts of like character. As for the number it is the only one. 
Among these 500, 200 were executed on the ground of the decision of the local 
organization to whom they were very well known as most active and danger- 
ous counter-revolutionaries nnd 300 had been selected already sometime ago as 
belonging to the vanguard of the counter-revolutionary movement. In the pas- 
sion of the struggle tearing our whole people, do you not see the sufferings, 
untold during generations, of all the unknown millions who were dumb during 
centuries, and whose concentrated despair and rage have at last burst into the 
open, passionately longing for a new life, for the sake of which they have the 
whole existing fabric to remove? In the great battles of mankind hatred and 
fury are even so unavoidable as in every battle and in every struggle. Do you 
not see the beauties of the heroism of the working class, trampled under the feet 
of everybody who were above them until now, and now rising in fury and pas- 
sionate devotion and enthusiasm to re-create the whole world and the whole life 
of mankind? Why are you blind to all this in the same way as you are dumb 
to the system of atrocities against which this working class has risen? It is 
only natural, then, if you are unjust against those whom you light-heartedly con- 
demn, if you distort even the facts of the case, if you see wanton vengeance 
against persons of other views there, where in reality there is the most terrible, 
the most passionate, the most furious battle of one world against the other, 
in which our enemies with deadly weapons are lurking behind every street 
corner, and in which the executions of which you speak, executions of real and 
deadly enemies, are insignificant in comparison with the horrors which these 
enemies try to prepare for us, and in comparison with the immeasurable horrors 
of the whole system with which we are at present at grips in a life and death 

I remain. 

Yours, truly, 

(Signed) G. Tchitchkbin. 

I think that is probably as good a statement as you could have of 
the point of view and the aims of the Bolshevik government. 

Senator Overman. Did you observe any of their cruelties? Did 
you see any of it yourself? 

Mr. Huntington. I have seen many arrests. I have been in 
prisons. I was never personally arrested. I have not been present at 
shootings. I have known of people being led out to be shot. Very 
few people are present at shootings. Satisfactory evidence had it 
that most of them were performed at night and in cellars, and, it was 
said, with Maxim silencers on the muzzles of the rifles, to muffle the 
sound. Friends of mine have been in prisons and have seen people 
daily led out for shooting, who have never come back. I have seen 
deportations of whole trainloads of people, herded in freight cars, 
taken away from their homes. 

Senator Overman. Women and children also? 

Mr. HtTNTiNGTON. Men, women, and children. 

Senator Overman. Was there a reign of terror there ? 


Mr. Huntington. Very decidedly, sir; and there is no denial of 
it, but a justification of it, in that letter and in the other letters. If 
you will recall the words which I read from the same Mr. Tchitcherin 
to the neutral legations, you will recall that he says that the masses 
of the world will understand what they are doing as violence neces- 
sary to attain a certain end, and will not only understand it but adopt 
it themselves in their respective countries. 

If yOu have nothing more, sir, I would like to take up the economic 

Senator Nelson. I would like to hear, if you will tell us, what their 
plan and scheme of government is— this Bolshevik government — and 
what they expect to accomplish. That is more important. I would 
like to know what sort of a government they are seeking to establish 
there, and upon what principles? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes, sir ; I will tell you the best I know. I have 
been present there throughout the whole time, and I am able to read 
the papers, and I read them daily. There are no other papers in 
Russia now, and have not been for many months, but the Bolshevik 
papers. Long ago they suspended the papers of all parties opposed 
to them, saying that freedom of the press must unfortunately be 
sacrificed to the good of their movement. 

Maj. Humes. Then there is no freedom of the press in Russia under 
the Bolshevist government? 

Mr. Huntington. There is no pretense of freedom of the press, sir. 

Maj. Humes. Is it not a fact that the constitution of the soviet 
republic provides expressly for depriving people of the rights of 
free press and free speech, and any other rights that may be exer- 
cised to the detriment of the revolutionary party ? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes, sir; that is a part of the principle. In an- 
swer to your question. Senator, do I make myself plain? 

Senator Nelson. Well, you have not got at it yet. [Applause.] 

Senator Overman. What does that mean, that cheering back there? 
Bring an officer in here, Mr. Clerk. 

Senator Nelson. I want to know, in short, what their scheme and 
plan of government is that they are inaugurating, and propose to 

Mr. Huntington. Yes,. sir; I will tell you that, the best I can. 

Senator Nelson. And the methods they intend to pursue in in- 
augurating that government. , That is what we are anxious to know. 

Mr. Huntington. Briefly, this: The present state of the world is 
unsatisfactory. We have war. We have injustice to the gi'eat masses 
of the people, so they say. These are great evils. The present state 
of the constitution of society, which is known as the capitalist state, 
has outlived its usefulness ; has shown itself unable to cope with these 
great injustices, war, and unequal distribution of wealth. The capi- 
talist state of society must, therefore, go. To get rid of the capitalist 
state of society, which is a long habit with human nature, is a very 
difficult task. It is faced primarily by the difficulty that those who 
have property part with it unwillingly. Now, in order to get rid of 
this capitalist state of society we are going to have the socialist state 
of society, loosely, because the definitions of various people differ, 
but in general, a state of society whereby the government, the state, 
owns all the means of production, factories, farms, railroads, in- 


dustries, steamship lines, etc., ^Yhereby there is no property ex- 
cept — I do not know about personal property; that depends on the 
views of the individual persons — but there is no great property, no 
industrial property, no fartiing property, in private ownership, but 
only that of the state ; that by removing from the capitalist class the 
temptation of money g'etting, by the fact that they can no longer ac- 
cumulate wealth but become govex-nment servants, like those of us 
who are to-day in the employ of the government, by removing those 
temptations, war and injustice are obviated. 

Senator Nelson. One part of their creed, then, is to divest private 
ownership of all property and property rights, and confer it upon 
the state or the government? 
Mr. Huntington. Very definitely; yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. That is one of the primary articles of faith. 
Then, after they have done that, after they have taken, for instance, 
the land from the private owners, what do they provide as to the 
utilization of the land after that ? 

Mr. Huntington. That is to come later. If 1 may go on, I would 
like to answer that in a moment. 
Senator Nelson. Go on; yes. 

Mr. Huntington. To realize this is very difficult. They have 
found, naturally, there is great opposition on the part of those who 
own the property. Their aims, they say, are the aims of the socialist 
movement throughout the world for many years, but the socialist 
movement throughout the world, which is opposed to them to-day, , 
has been unsuccessful because it has tried to work in the parliamen- 
tary manner, by convincing people, sending representatives to par- 
liament and voting their measures through. They therefore have to 
resort to compulsion. To compel, they divest those who have prop- 
erty of that property by force. Should they resist, they may even 
kill them, as you have seen, and justify that. 

Senator Nelson. In short, they propose to divest the ownei-s of 
their property, by violence, if need be ? 
Mr. Huntington. If need be. 
Senator NEL'iON. And without any compensation? 
Mr. Huntington. Without any compensation. In the interim 
when their new state is being prepared — an interim of indefinite 
length — they provide for the so-called dictatorate of the proletariat; 
that is, to take and arbitrarily divide all mankind into so-called 
bourgeois, that is the capitalists — and in that they include everj^one 
from those who own the smallest houses, right through to a million- 
aire. They arbitrarily divide all mankind into that class — and, on the 
other hand, the proletariat, who ha^-e no property holdings. They 
want to push out of the way the upper class. They do not con- 
template the participation of this class in the government. They 
contemplate the participation only of the proletariat in the govern- 
ment, and that is why, on this question of a dictature of the prole- 
tariat—that is, when they have finished their revolution in Eussiaj 
not the original revolution but their revolution— they intend to keep 
the formerly propertied classes from voting in the new government 
whichi they will have established. 

The dictature of the proletariat is fraught with difficulty because, 
especially in a countiy like Eussia, where due to the tyranny and 


laziness of the olcl regime, the proletariat had very few chances, the 
proletariat are not educated. So they need leaders, a,nd Mr. Lenine 
and Mr. Trotsky and their associates put themselves forward as the 
leaders. ' The" result is that whereas there is on paper a complete 
system of voting, of representation, the central executive committee 
of all. the Soviets — which, as you have rightly stated, are placed 
throughout the country wherever their power extends — is dominated 
by a few brainy men, fanatics like Lenine and Trotskj\ The for- 
merly propertied classes — and of course in their division they make 
it arbitrarj', as they like — could not participate in this council, nor 
is it expected that they will. At some distant date, when this prelimi- 
nary ground work is carried out, it is contemplated to permit these 
people who, by that time, perhaps have had a change of heart, or to 
permit their children, to participate in the new social state which has 
then been reached.- ■ This is an interregnum in which the proletariat 
conducts the didtature. 

Senator Nelson. In that term " proletariat " you include not 
only workmen but others — peasants? 

Mr. HtJNTiNGTON.' Yes; that term originally included workmen 
only, but was exfehded to peasants; but they came from the party of 
worlarien in the ''eifies in former times, and not the peasants. 

Senator Nelson. What has become of the old nihilist element? 
Are they mixed into this new scheme ? 

Mr. Huntington. I am not competent to pass on that. 
Maj. Hx;mes.>' Is there nOt a distinction, in their ■ application of 
their laws and -their administration, between peasants and what they 
term the " poor " peasants ? 

Mr. HtJNTiiiGTON. Gn that comes again the question. I told you 
that they divided; mankind arbitrarily into two classes; the bour- 
geois, as they sayj-thatis those who have Capital, and the proletariat. 
Of course, they make the division, they make the distinction, and they 
put in "their divi^si'dns whom they like, because it is an arbitrary 
matter. In Russia there are',' in most peasant communities, peasants 
who have, under the systems which have been provided, bought 
lands of their ovifri'."- There are certain ones, who, as it happens in 
every community, are better provided with the good things of life, 
the harder workers of more energetic, and they are systematically 
excluded by the Bolsheviks and placed opposite, in the community, 
to the so-called poor peiasants; those who have little property, who 
in the old vodka days had been addicted to drunkenness, or who 
econoiriically. have inade poor progress in life. In the villages those 
two groups of men are set against each other. 

Senator Nelson. Is hot this true, when you come back to the 
peasantry and all, farmers, that the ownership of land is in what 
they- call the mir^ the village community; that they are settled in 
villages, in communities, and the title of the land is in the mir or 
in the community— in the municipality, as we call it here^-and 
that they from year to year apportion parts of the land to be used 
by cerfein peasant^*? In other words, the peasants are not cdm- 
plete'.-owners, iri:the- sense in which our farmers are owners, but 
the ownership of theiand is in the community, the mir, and the mir 
distributes the • usfe of the land among the peasants ? Is not that 
the condition? ' - 


Mr. Huntington. That is true, Senator, for about 80 per cent of 
the country. 

Senator Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Huntington. The remaining one-fifth, we will say, of the 
lands are in private ownership. 

Senator Nelson. In large estates? 

Mr. Huntington. No; I do not speak of those now. I leave 
those quite out of account. I am speaking of the peasants, the 
20 per cent ; and that varies according to the portion of the country. 
Private peasant ownership is more in the south and west than in the 
north. They are not only sometimes the holders of the mir, in 
which they have a part, but they own land of their own, which it 
was permitted them to buy or arranged for them to buj' under cer- 
tain reforms introduced by the old imperial government. 

Senator Nelson. That is mostly in southern Russia ? 

Mr. Huntington. The majority of it is southern Russia and 
western Russia. 

Senator Nelson. In what we call the Ukraine ? 

Mr. Huntington. The Ukraine is the heart of South Russia. 

Senator Overman. Now, having got this property, taken from 
the people who owned it, into the State, what do they propose to do 
with it? 

Mr. Huntington. Just the same as the ideal socialists. I sup- 
pose you are speaking of the fact 

Senator Overman. What do they propose to accomplish? What 
is the end? When they get all this property in the State, what 
do they propose to do with it ? 

Mr. Huntington. It is proposed that life should go on very 
much as it does now, except very much better ; that we should have 
food, and clothing, and transportation, and all those things under 
the State instead of in private ownership; that all of us will be 
employees of the State and not employees of private concerns. 

Senator Overman. All government officers? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes. 

Senator Overman. Everybody will be a government officer? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. How do they propose to handle the manufactur- 
ing industries under the new regime ? How do they propose to oper- 
ate them ? Now, we will say that the workmen take possession of a 
big industrial plant under this system, what do they propose to do 
after they have taken possession, and how do they propose to operate? 

Mr. Huntington. What happened, sir, was this : In the beginning 
of their administration they immediately provided for the so-called 
control of production of the factories by the workmen, and this went 
into effect; and workmen's committees did actually take over most 

Senator Nelson. In other words, they were to be run by the work- 
men themselves? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes, sir. In the original legislation, as I remem- 
ber it, the proprietor would be in a manner engaged as an expert 
assistant. Indeed, it was first provided, I believe, that he should 
receive a rental for his work, and he would participate in the man- 
agement. They would get the benefit of his experience. 


Senator Nelson. They went so far, however, in their program as 
to recognize the fact that they needed experts who belonged to the 
capitalist class, who were termed intellectuals, and to say that they 
would employ some of them in the first instance to assist them in 
running the factories ; was not that true ? 

Mr. Huntington. They took over the factories with a great deal of 
enthusiasm, but very shortly, in most cases, came to grie£ That is, a 
variety of things happened; either the grief remamed or in some 
cases tactful employers made an arrangement with their men whereby 
really their brains were used in the production, and there was a 
modus operandi worked out between them and the factory and the 
factory was enabled to go on. 

Where that did not take place the factory came to grief, as most 
of them did. 

Even where that did take place, under the very unusual circum- 
stances the operation of the factory was hardly an operation of nor- 
mal times, where an income has to be earned on the investment. 

Senator Nelson. Of course they expected to operate all the rail- 
roads — this government ? 

Mr. Huntington. Seventy per cent of the total mileage has 
always been operated by the govermnent in Russia. 

Senator Nelson. They have been operated by the government, so 
that the transition was not so great ? 

Mr. Huntington. No, sir. 

. Senator Nelson. But what did they propose to do after they had 
seized the lands and taken possession of them? How did they pro- 
pose to utilize those lands, and what show did they propose to give 
the peasants ? 

' Mr. Huntington. In the first place, they nationalized the land. 
It became the property of the state ; and whereas there has not been 
time in such an enormous place as Russia to work all these things 
out, in general they gave immediate order to the peasants to take the 
land of the contiguous estates of the landholders. There was not 
much order about that, and that has resulted in difficulty; but they 
were going on this simple plan, to take the land and then divide it 
up amongst themselves. 

Senator Nelson. When the peasants divided the land up, were they 
to get title to their little patches of land ? 

Mr. Huntington. Oh, no, sir; because the land is nationalized. 
It belongs to the state. 

Senator Nelson. They were simply to cultivate it as a species of 
tenants ? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes, sir. 

Maj. Humes. In that connection, a paragraph from the Soviet Re- 
public constitution might be of interest as to its provisions on that 
subject. [Reading:] 

For the purpose of realizing the principle of the socialization of land, private 
ownership in land is abolished and the entire land fund is declared the property 
of the people and Is turned over to the toilers without any indemnity upon the 
I>rinciple of equalization of Innd-allotments. 

And again: 

All forests, mineral wealth, water power and waterways of public importance, 
as well as all live stock and agricultural implements, all model landed estates 
and agricultural enterprises are declared national property. 


As a first step to the complete transfer of factories, mills, miues, railroads 
and other means of production and transportation into property of the Workers' 
and Pensants' Soviet Republic, the law ((iiicoTiiini; the workers' control and 
concerning the Supreme Council for National Economy, which aims at securing 
the power of the tollers over the exploiters, is hereby confirmed. 

Senator Xelsox. That is ^erv good. That ought to go into the 
record, if it is not in already. 

Maj. HyjiEs. There are just two or three more sentences covering 
that subject. [Continuing reading:] 

The 3rd Convention of the Soviets considers tlie Soviet law concerning the 
annulling (repudiation) of loans contracted by the governments of the Tzar, 
the landlords and the capitalists, as the first blow at international banking 
and financial capital and expresses the conviction that the Soviet government 
will advance steadfastly along this path until complete vieti>ry of the interna- 
tional workers against the yoke of capitalism is secured. 

The principle of the transfer of all banks to the property of the workers' and 
peasants' state, as one of the conditions of emancipation of the toiling masses 
from the yoke of capital, is hereby reaffirmed. 

For the purpose of doing away with parasitical elements in society and of 
organizing the economic affairs of the country, universal obligatory labor 
service is established. 

In order to secure full power for the toiling masses and to. remove every 
opportunity for reestablishin'g the government of the exploiters, the principle 
of arming the toilers, of forming a Socialist Red Army of the workers and 
peasants, and of completely dLsarming the ijroperty-holdiug classes is hereby 

Senator Oveemax. Proceed, Doctor. 

Mr. HuxTiNGTON. Eeturning to the Senator's question about the 
factories, I would like to complete that by saying that whereas the 
first phase was the workmen's control, wliereby a committee was 
formed in each factory to take charge of that factory, the second 
phase was later introduced by nationalizing of the factories, just in 
the same manner as the land has been nationalized. In other words, 
whereas in the first place theoretically the factory was not imme- 
diately taken out of the hands of the owner, but was to be turned 
over to the control of his workmen, by the decree of nationalization 
the factory passed from the ownership of the former owner into th« 
ownership of the State. 

Senator Nelson. To be operated by the workmen? 

Mr. Huntington. To be operated under what was called the Su- 
preme Council of National Economy. That introduced practical 
difficulties again, since that factory was then to be operated theoreti- 
cally as one of a chain, one of a system, and that produced friction 
and quarrels between separate factories, practically, for the reason, 
of course, that some factories were better provided with the raw ma- 
terials than others, and in a system of distribution whereby each was 
to receive a fair part would have to give up, if they were better 
provided, perhaps, some of the materials which they had, which 
would stop their production earlier. The great fact in all the in- 
dustry there is, of course, that it is not running at the present time, 
unless you want to say that a few machines, or one isolated factory, 
or something of that kind, is running; but it is, on the whole,, not 
running, for the very good reason that there are no raw materials 
present to work on, neither iron, coal, petroleum, nor cotton; and 
cotton spinning and cotton weaving is the chief industry in Russia, 
the biggest one in Russia aside frm farming. 


Senator Nelson. Here is a matter that occurs to me. After the^ 
have succeeded in nationalizing all the land and all the industries, 
in other words, taking it over by the Government and operating it 
by the Government, what is their scheme of taxation for securing 
revenue to run the Government, and who is to pay the tayxes? 

Mr. Huntington. That is not clear to me in theory, and in practice 
there was no system of taxation put through. The only taxation that 
I have seen was in the matter of contributions levied on the capi- 
talist class. Take this instance. In the newspapers of Omsk, in 
Siberia, which I have seen, and of which I have copies, there ap- 
peared a list of the men or firms in the town who were to pay 25,000 
or 50,000 or 100,000 roubles, or whatever it may be. The agency of 
the International Harvester Co., when our train passed through 
Novo-Nikolaevsk (in Siberia) in March had just been called upon to 
pay a fine, I think, of 35,000 rubles, and I Avas asked, as an em- 
bassy representative, at that time to send a telegram to the local 
soviet pointing out that this was an American concern and should 
not be asked to pay this fine. 

Apart from the contributions, their revenue system is chiefly the 
printing press. 

Senator Nelson. You mean printing bills and bonds? 

Mr. Huntington. Printing paper money, yes; and when the ob- 
jection is raised to that that they have long since passed any gold 
reserve, the answer is simply that since the land is now nationalized, 
all of Russia belongs to the Russian Government, and all of Russia is 
certainly worth all the paper that has been issued up to this time. 

Senator Nelson. Yes; but you spoke about collecting the taxes. 
After they have been divested of all their property, and it has all 
been condemned and taken over by the State, there are no more 
capitalists. There can not be any more taxes, can there? 

Mr. Huntington. There will not be now; but there were at that 
time. At that time they did not take a man's bank account from him. 
They forbade him access to his bank account, but his account re- 
mained on the books, supposedly, of the bank. They could force 
him to sign a check against that account. They could also force 
people who had no bank account to dig up cash. I personally lived 
in Siberia, in Irkutsk, with a former merchant who had such a con- 
tribution levied on him, and who borrowed the money from his 
friends to pay it. He did so against the advice of many Russians, 
and against our advice, because we thought that he would be asked 
for a second contribution — that he would be askecl a second time ; but 
he actually went out and borrowed the money from his friends who 
had it put away in chimneypieces and stockings, or under mattresses — 
who had been able to save it, in other words — in order to avoid 
being sent to prison, which was the alternative. 

Senator Wolcott. You say that in defense of their printing-press 
money they say that the State owns the land and that Russia is worth 
as miich money as has been issued. That is their answer ? 

Mr. Huntington. That is one of their answers. 

Senator Wolcott. Do you know whether anjj^body eVer suggested 
to them that that is rather insecure, because if the paper money is 
issued and is in sight to be collected, the fellow that gets the land 
will have it taken away from him again? Is there any answer to 
that, that you have heard ? 


Mr. Huntington. Oh, they have an answer for almost anything. 

Senator WoLCOTT. It would be a curious one, to that. 

Mr. Huntington. Most of the answers are curious, from a normal 
man's view. The thought, processes of those people are not in the 
usual grooves. 

About conditions, may I speak as to conditions as they exist there 
now, as I saw them before I left 

Senator Overman. That is what we want to hear. 

Mr. Huntington (continuing). And what they have become since. 
I beg permission to read here, because I have been so often asked 
whether there has been starvation in the cities of Russia, three letters 
written by a woman who was formerly a clerk, a translator in the 
American Embassy, and written to a friend of her's in this country. 
The letters are dated September 16, 20, and 23. 

Senator Wolcott. Of what year ? 

Mr. Huntington. Nineteen eighteen. That is, they are only a 
few months old. The first letter I will quote from is as follows. The 
original is in the hands of the young man to whom it was written. 
It is dated September 16, 1918. "^[Reading:] 

I am glad you are not here just now; living conditions are awfully hard. 
Have you ever seen people dying on the street? I did, three times, twice it was 
men, workmen apparently, once an old woman. One man fell down in the 
Furshtadtskaya, the other on the Liteinye, when I walked home from the office 
last Sunday. Maybe it was from cholera, maybe from starvation. The woman 
died on the Ussacheff Pereoulck. She was sitting quite a while on the pave- 
ment, then quietly laid down. Nobody paid any attention to her. Later on a 
Red Cross car carried her away. But horses are not removed, when they die 
on the streets they just lie there for weeks, and hungry dogs tear their bodies 
to pieces. 

I don't think the people died from cholera, they were not sick, just horribly 
thin and pale. It's awfully hard ; I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen 
it myself. These three cases Illustrate to you the conditions of Petrograd better 
than descriptions. People are dying quietly, horribly quietly, without any groan 
or curse, poor helpless creatures, slaves of the terrible rgglme of to-day. I 
think that's really the only thing the Russian people can do well. 

Altogether Petrograd is a dead town now. People are very, very few, nearly 
no " eats." Trams are half empty, half of the shops are closed. Heaps of 
offices opened, " Commission offices " as they call themselves, buying and selling 
furniture, tableware, linen, articles of luxury, etc., of people who leave the 
country or who just sell everything they possess so as not to starve. Most 
precious, vulgar, or intimate things of housekeeping are sold publicly. It's 
sometimes comical, most times most sad and shocking. There seems to be 
nothing precious any more in families, everything is to be bought. 

You cannot imagine what is going on in this country. Everything what is 
cultured, wealthy, accomplished or educated is being prosecuted and systemati- 
cally destroyed. But you know it all through papers, don't you? We all here 
live under a perpetual strain under fear of arrest and execution. Yesterday 
bulletins appeared on corners of all streets announcing that the allies and the 
bourgeoisie have spread cholera and hunger all over Russia and calling to open 
slaughter of the latter. 

Do you remember the little market on the Basseinaja where they used to sell 
food stufE? It is now transferred into a place where people of society sell all 
their belongings, overcoats, furs, shoes, kitchenware, table and bed linen, etc. ; 
they sell everything right on the streets. The food question is terribly acute. 
Petrograd lives on herrings and apples. Yes, also on " vobla." That is fish, 
dried in the sun. The size of it is about the same as of a small herring's, and 
it smells horribly. But it can be eaten when properly soaked and boiled. We 
always used to know " vobla " as a swearword. But now I know that it is a 
flsh, and eatable. 

You know, Stranger, people here are starving in accordance with four cater 
gories. The first category (workmen) get i pound of bread every two -days. 


i. e., J of a pound a day, and two herrings ; 2 category workmen who do easy 
work, get i pound of bread every two days, and two herrings. The tliird cate- 
gory, people who " drink other people's blood and exploit other people's work," 
i. e., people who live on mental work, (sic!) get two herrings every two days, 
and no bread, and the fourth category (not mentioned on the inclosed slip) 
also people who " drink, etc." get nothing at all, sometimes two herrings. I in- 
Close a slip from our official paper, which mentions these four categories. The 
paper is called " Severanaja Communa " (The Northern Commune). People 
may, of course buy food besides the food they get from cooperative stores, 
mentioned above, and which is at a reasonable price (if a herring a day and 
iw lb. of bread can be. called food) but the prices are enormous. One lb. of 
black bread costs Rs. 15. 

I should say we get more rubles for a dollar in Kussia than you 
can get in New York. We paid 10 cents for a ruble up to the time 
of leaving, which was therefore 10 rubles to the dollar, and I shall 
divide the ruble prices and give you the prices immediately in gold. 
[Continuing reading:] 

One lb. of black bread costs $1.50, 1 lb. of white flour Rs. 17 to 20, black 
flour $1.10 to $1.20. Potatoes cost 32 to 38 cents a lb., butter $2, and so on 
Do you remember the big store on the corner of Snamenskaja and Kirochnaja, 
where soldiers used to live and where there were once on the windows heaps ot 
rotten potatoes? The shop is now occupied by a commissioner's office, who 
sells everything in the world, and on the corner there is quite a little market, 
consisting of ladies and children of society, who sell lumps of sugar at Rs. 1.20 
apiece and thin slices of black bread, I don't know at what price. 

I, myself, have seen this, on August 28, 1918. [Continuing read- 

And this year Russia has unusually good crops ! People who have a little 
bit of money left, run away from Russia. They sell everything they possess 
and just run. They go mainly to the Baltic provinces and to Ukrainia. And 
you know, its the German consulate there who helps them to get permits and 
"tickets. I don't know how the Germans manage to do it, but I know for sure 
that they do. They do it also very willingly if people get them good money 
in exchange of their Kerenki, which they have heaps. 

That is, the money of the old regime, of the Czar, in exchange for 
the kerenki. Kerenki is the little money that was brought out at 
the time of the Kerensky government, in denominations of 20 and 40 
rubles, and which is about the size of my finger, and which is not 
pretty, and which is often looked down upon by the people ; and they 
prefer the fine looking bills of the former day. 

Here is another letter. [Reading:] 

We have four new decrees now. The first concerns the loding question ; the 
second, forced hard labor for the bourgeoisie; the third, requisition of warm 
clothes for the Bed Army, and the fourth concerns distribution of food. 

First about lodgings. Comrade ZinoviefE, little Jew Apfelbaum, on a meet- 
ing of the Soldiers' and Workmen's deputies said, that "the bourgeoisie has 
not been enough ' reduced to beggary ' yet ; that they still have to give back 
what they have acquired by way of exploiting of oppressions, by way of blood 
and sweat of the workman. They have now to give their comfortable lodgings 
and furniture. The war has temporarily diverted the attention of the Soviet 
power from this point, which can as well be pressed on the bourgeoisie. They 
still have much. The best houses, the best apartments and shops belong to 
them. It is time to put an end to it. The workmen, in spite of the decree, still 
show fear, indecisiveness. Socialism is not carried through in this way. 
Further, the speaker refers to Engles and other Socialists and Paris com- 
muneers who discussed the lodging question. "The workmen must come up 
from their caves into the upper floors. Half measures must not be tolerated. 
The workmen must take the initiative themselves, they must abandon their 
psychology of slaves, that in rich houses, not filled up by workmen they will 
feel uncomfortable. We do not want Nevsky, this street of prostitutes, we want 


Kamenoostrovsky, Vassily, Ostroff, etc. Workmen had enough courage, to go on 
the barricades, to stand against imperialistic bayonets, to .break down the im- 
perialistic power, but to put their own lives and the lives" of tlieir J;amilies in 
better conditions they are iifraid. If they will need money or means of 
transportation they will get them. If a milliard will }}e needed — the Soviet 
will give it. The lack of courage still proves that a little of a counterrevolu- 
tioneer still sticks in our souls and shows resistance. Wdrljmen still .consider 
themselves the fourth class, while they are the first now since a long time. And 
soon the time will come now, that they will be the first in the whole world." 

Referring to reasons why workmen themselves hesitate to'' socialize the 
lodgings. Comrade Zinovieff gives one of them as fear of, workmen families 
to be sent back to their old lodgings by the " White Guard," i. e., allies, bour- 
geoisie, etc. " But the proletariat should be quiet in this" respect," he says, 
" if the White Guard comes. They will send away hundreds of thousands, a 
whole million, maybe, but not to their former lodgings, but to the other world. 
But this will never be. Their hands are too short. It is nearly a wjiole year 
now since the proletariat holds the power in its hands, and this power grows ; 
gets more and more strong. The women of the working class- must kno>>?' that 
during the French revolution laundry women understood that they had the 
right to travel in royal carriages. They took them and travelled. The diffi- 
culties are now behind us. We are the ruling class. We will" show the bour- 
geoisie that the revolution has been carried through for the sake of realistic 
advantages, and everything that formerly belonged to the class of the oppressors 
will now be taken by the people." 

He further refers to the example given by the Red Giiard. They showed 
that they knew how to treat the belongings of the tyrants and oppressors. 
"After Nikolai Romanoff has been executed," he continues, " about 600 suits of 
linen have been taken by the Red Guard. And they proved that they could 
wear them not any worse than their former owner." 

Maj. HuJiES. Doctor, you have had attention called in that letter 
to people dying in the streets of Petrograd. What, of your own 
knowledge, do you know about the actual conditions, the living condi- 
tions and the terrorism in Russia, and the means that are used by 
the Government to maintain itself? 

Mr. HuNTixGTON. Of my own knowledge I know the conditions 
in Moscow during the last few months, where I lived in the consulate 
general, and I not only had my own observation, but was at the 
center, where all the representatives of the consulates placed in dif- 
ferent parts of the country sent their reports. 

I have been on two visits to Petrograd, one in June and another 
when we passed out in August. I have been over the entire trans- 
Siberian line from Petrograd to Irkutsk, east. I have lived in 
Irkutsk for two months, and participated in the life of the town as 
much as anyone would who came into the town. I have dealt with and 
seen people in the town, school-teachers, merchants.; dealt with the 
Soviets in business matters, on cases of American goods; have been 
at the railway stations and have seen the Austro-BLxingarian armed 
guards, who were armed to fight also for the social revolution, and 
had been made citizens of this soviet republic ; I have talked to rail- 
road men, to station masters, to self-made men, to farmers, to peas- 
ants; I have been in the 

Maj. HujiES. '\'\Tiat have you seen in all this experience with 
reference to terrorism and the conduct and practical application of 
the policies of the Bolshevist regime? 

Mr. Huntington. I have seen the complete overturn of all we 
know in our present life, and absolute chaos in all htiman relations. 

Maj. Httmes. How is the control maintained? Is it maintained 
because the people are with the Bolshevist government, or is it main- 


tained through terrorizing the people, or in what mani. ^^^|o they 
maintain themselves? 

Mr. Huntington. It is maintained absolutely by terror. They 
gained that power by a sudden coup d'etat in Petrograd and Moscow, 
by promises to a people who had been duly prepared by eight months 
of propaganda, for which Germany had contributed large sums. 
They were able to produce the coup d'etat bj'^ the use of soldiers in 
the capital, and by promising to the crowds peace, land, and bread. 
They maintain their power by owning the machine guns and the 
arms, and getting control of those which they did not have in the 
beginning; by the use of terror; by the use of taking hostages; by 
the use of any unsci-upulous methods which, as you have seen by what 
I have read, they do not denj^, but justify, and by the help of mer- 
cenaries like the Letts from the Baltic Provinces, and Chinese 
soldiers, such as they embrace out in Siberia, and out in Siberia in 
one case where they interested Austro-Hungarian soldiers, as in the 
case of the trainload armed, which I saw, and which were being sent 
out to fight. 

Their present armj^ to-day consists of a corps of Lettish merce- 
naries and Chinese mercenaries, to which they have added, by i 
threats — threats perS'onally as to themselves and as to their wives and 
children — citizens who no doubt serve only because of fear of what 
will be done by the Bolshevik government to their families, and also 
because by serving they secure food and clothing. 

Their present armies are formed in this way. They are not formed 
of enthusiastic people fighting for a great cause, but they are formed 
of desperate people who hope by service in the army to be clothed 
and fed. 

Maj. Humes. You have referred to this government as a social- 
istic state. Are we to understand from that that the Government, as 
now constituted, represents the socialist movement of the socialist 
elements of Russia, or does it simply represent one party or one ele- 
ment of the socialist movement in Russia? 

Mr. Huntington. It represents only one group of the socialists 
of Russia ; and to show that, I need only say that in the constituent 
assembly which was finally held in Petrograd and sat — 'at least pre- 
pared one day and sat for a second day — and where I was present, 
by having been allowed in there by sailor guards who were posted at 
the street corners, in that assembly they had a large majority against 
them, and they disbanded the assembly because of that fact, and the 
large majority of that whole gathering were socialists, socialists 
by conviction, chiefly of the so-called social revolutionary party, the 
party of the peasant socialists. I think that that constituent _as- 
semblv, which so far as I know is the last really democratic meeting 
that has been held in Russia, is a sufficient answer to that question. 

I can also cite, however, the treatment of such great groups of 
socialists — although these are not political groups — as the coopera- 
tive societies who are formed chiefly of socialists. These societies 
find themselves in strong oppostion to the Bolshevik power, but are 
forced to o-o on with it. For a long time the Bolshevik power feared 
to touch their organization, because it was democratic, and reaches 
the hearts and pocketbooks of the people pretty closely ; but lately 
they have gained courage in that regard, and they have put a com- 
85723—19 5 


missarf?t^°Jie organization of the largest cooperative in central Rus- 
sia and they have also taken over the bank of the cooperative socie- 
ties — the stockholders of which are peasants — and have their mem- 
bers among the directors of that bank. 

Maj. Humes. Have you any idea what portion of the socialist 
movement in Russia is represented in the present government 'i 

Mr. Huntington. When the Bolshevik movement began, because 
of the economic disintegration, because of the anarchy of mind of 
a people held in political oppression, and with no education, because 
of the sins of the old regime, they had a considerable vogue, without 
question, in Petrograd and Moscow, and extended a sort of power — 
not perfect power, but a sort of power — even out into Siberia. I have 
seen that. But as time went on and they did not fulfill their prom- 
ises, they did not get peace and did not get bread, and the distribu- 
tion of land only caused trouble and friction among the peasants. I 
have seen late advices from the land, not from the state owners, that 
peasants in many parts of the country are now wishing to pay for 
the land, and hesitating to plow the land which they took, because 
they feel they would like to pay for it, because they have lots of 
paper money and would like to pay for it and clear the title. 

When they promised peace, land and bread, and did not get 
any of them, they began to lose adherents; and they lost, first, the 
peasants, because the peasants in Russia, who form 85 per cent of 
that great population, who are not nationally minded, whose education 
and form of environment have been very local, and who did not 
take a lively interest as a mass in any movement whose chief motive 
was to get land — when those peasants had got the land, as they 
thought, they were out of the game. 

They were further driven out of the game by the requisitions of 
food by the Bolsheviks. When our train was lying at one point in 
eastern Russia in February, 1918, where we lay for several days, the 
Red Guards arrived with machine guns and sent telegrams through 
the telegraph office in the station, and I was able to read these tele- 
grams. Through these telegrams the leader of these Red Guards 
reported that he had sent his command out into the country among 
the peasants and that he had been defeated, and he asked in one of 
his telegrams for reinforcements. Further, while certain of our party 
were drinking tea in the house of a prosperous peasant, the house was 
surrounded by Red Guards composed of the riffraff of the village. It 
is this " peasant poor " that Lenine incited to civil war against their 
better-off brother peasants. 

I cite that merely as a case in point, showing how they have sent 
squads into the country demanding food, and the peasants ask them to 
give in exchange for the food manufactured articles instead of money, 
of which they have plenty, and which is useless to them; they ask 
for shoes and cloth and other articles, and the Bolsheviks refuse to 
give these articles to the peasants, and when the peasants refuse to 
sell them food they take it by force, and that only causes the peasants 
to hide what they have, and in certain cases, where they have arms, 
to fight. They have lost, therefore, the confidence of the peasants, 
and the peasants form 85 per cent of the Russian people. Therefore, 
I can not see how they can claim to-day politically to control the 


Now, as to the workmen, we have the best of advice now that they 
have lost most of them. The workmen of Eussia are about 7 per 
cent, or perhaps it is 8 — about 7 or 8 per cent, I think — in the great 
cities, chiefly. These men have neither food nor peace. They 
are having almost continuous warfare ever since the peace with 
Germany, and they are not satisfied, either; and they are not to 
be reckoned to-day as adherents of the Bolshevik regime, although 
that regime claims them most vociferously, and in order to secure 
their support has taken from the factories certain of the elite or 
pick of the workmen and made them commisars. That has not, 
however, been enough under the conditions, under their economic 
failure, to realize the paradise which they promised, and hold the 
workmen. Therefore, I feel that if the peasants are 85 per cent and 
the workmen are 7 per cent, that makes 92 per cent, and if they 
can not be said to have those two — not to speak of the higher classes, 
which I do not mention in this connection at all— I can not feel that 
they have to-day a very large following in Russia. 

(At 1.10 o'clock p. m. the subcommittee took a recess until 2.30 
o'clock p. m.) 


.The subcommittee reconvened, pursua,nt to .thfe^4;aking of the recess, 
at 2.30 o'clock p. m. *- " 


Maj. Humes. Doctor, this morning you gave us some idea of the 
comparative strength and following of the various parties in Eussia, 
which indicated that the present Government represented less than 
10 per cent of the people. Now, if that is true, how do they main- 
tain their power or maintain the de facto government? 

Mr. Huntington. In the first place, they have the machine guns. 
They have got the arms. 

Maj. Humes. How do they use the machine guns? Where have 
they got them and how do they use them, and what do they use 
them for? 

Mr. Huntington. The machine gun is the weapon, par excellence, 
for use in towns, on the roads, and for use in the country villages 
if there is a peasant uprising; and also for obtaining grain; and 
they have not only the machine guns, but the transport. It was due 
also to the presence of German officers that they have more than once 

They also have the press, because for several months now there 
has been no liberty for the press in Eussia. They do not permit any 
of the so-called bourgeois papers, which were formerly published, to 
come out. 

Maj. Humes. Do they permit any socialist papers of other groups 
than their own groups to publish papers? 

Mr. Huntington. No; there are none except the official organs 
of the so-called Soviet Government published at this time in bol- 
shevik Eussia. Having the press, having the arms, and then having 
the railway lines, although the railway men themselves, particularly 


the higher classes, the locomotive engineers, the conductors, and fire- 
men and station masters, are not for them, they are able to control 
the country pretty well. They have, of course, the telegraph. 

Maj. Humes. Do hostages figure at all in their control? 

Mr. Huntington. The hostage system which they use is the same 
as the German system. They take hostages for the actions of some 
one whom they vvish to control. The father of a young girl who was 
my secretary, an Englishman who had lived in Russia for many 
years, was walking one night, smoldng a cigar, in the garden of the 
Church of the Saviour. He was arrested, with every one else in the 
garden, and taken off. They found out about it by chance; other- 
wise thej^ would not have known. The girls went to the Kremlin; 
where they found out that he had been taken, and asked for what 
he had been arrested, and were jeered at, and told that he had 
already been executed. They proceeded and saw the second highest 
man, and he told them that there was not anything to be done about 
it; that he did not know anything about their father, and his case 
would come up when the time came. The other men in the office 
told them that their father had been killed. 

They were then told that one of the Red Cross representatives was 
the only one that would be allowed to find out anything about him, 
and see him, so that one of the Red Cross representatives went, at 
my request, to find out about this unfortunate man, against whom 
there is no accusation whatever, or any charge brought, and he 
spoke to the assistant to Peters, who received him kindly and said. 
" Yes; I will do the best I can, and I will make a note of it, but I 
do not know just what I can do. I have to put so many people to 
death every day that I am tired at night." That is one of the meth- 
ods which is used. 

Another method is the brandishing of force before one. In 
Irkutsk, in Siberia, where T lived, there was daily machine-gun 
practice, so called, in a little vard on one of the main streets, so 
that as the passers-by passed down the street they might hear the 
noise and rattle of the machine guns; which for people who had 
just been through the social revolution as they had, was, of course, 
a little bit annoying, and tended to keep people on edge. The 
Peter and Paul Prison in Petrograd was filled with hostages of 
this kind. The system was quite universal. That was another part 
of the terror. They never have denied the terror. You heard this 
morning the official proclamation read, in which they are instructed 
to do this very thing, and they do not deny these methods. They 
justify them. 

Maj. Humes. "^'^Tiat is the attitude of the Government, as it is con- 
stituted, toward the church ? 

Mr. Huntington. The attitude in practice is very hostile. In 
theory it is neutral. In theory, the church is a cult, recognized as a 
cult of people who have the right of congregation like any sect or 
cult, and this sect or cult occupies a church building nationalized by 
the Government — because of course the church properties are na- 
tionalized, as is other property — and they can meet in this church, and 
I believe, are supposed to pay rent. I do not know whether the rent 
has been paid or not. That is the theoretical status. Theoreticallv, I 
think, any religion, any cult, is tolerated. In practice the attitude is 


one of extreme hostility, if only for the reason that the leaders of the 
movement are, of course, very much opposed to orthodox Chris- 

Senator Wolcott. Are they in favor of any particular religion? 

Mr. Huntington. Not the leaders of this movement themselves; 
no, sir. The leaders of the movement, I should say, are about two- 
thirds Russian Jews and perhaps one-sixth or more of some of the 
othemationalities, like the Letts or the Armenians. The assistant in 
the foreign office was an Armenian. Then there are the Georgians; 
that is, the so-called Gruzinians of the Caucasus, and the remaining 
number Slavs. The superiority of the Jews is due to their intel- 
lectual superiority, because the average Jew is so much better edu- 
cated than the average Russian; and also, I think, to the fact that 
the Hebrew people have suffered so in the past in Russia that it has 
inevitably resulted in their cherishing a grudge which has been 
worked out by the movement. 

It is only fair, however, to say that the best of the Hebrew people 
in Russia, among whom are some of the finest in the world, and 
the greatest strugglers for human liberty in the world, have dis- 
approved of this thing and have always disapproved it, and fear 
its consequences for their own people. 

Senator Overman. What was the established religion there? 

Mr. Huntington. The so-called Eastern Orthodox Church, which 
came from the church of Constantinople in the ninth century. Mis- 
sionaries were sent out from Constantinople who converted Russia, 
and it has gone on ever since. 

Senator Wolcott. Commonly called the Greek Church? 

Mr. Huntington. Commonly called the Greek Church, which 
separated from the Roman Church at the time of the schism, and 
it has gone on its own way ever since. 

Maj. Humes. I want to read this from paragraph 13, page 32, of 
the Soviet constitution : 

For the purpose of securing for the toilers real freedom of conscience, the 
church is separated from the state, and the school from the church, and the 
freedom of religious and antlreligious propaganda is secured for all citizens. 

What became of the church property in Russia ? 

Mr. Huntington. Theoretically, the status of the property is that 
of nationalization. Practically, where it was needed as they thought 
for any purpose that they might have, it was taken over, which in 
the eyes of the pious was, of course, desecration. 

In Irkutsk the theological seminary was taken over, and they 
could not rest with taking the ordinarj' rooms, but they desecrated 
the chapel. 

In the Kremlin there was an old monastery very much revered 
amono- Russians, an ancient citadel, and from that the monks were 

Priests have often been arrested. Sometimes they have been put 

to death. 

The persecution is constant. It is, however, I think, having a 
salutary effect on the church, which from being a spoiled creature 
of the state in former times is now, under suffering, reforming and 
being cleansed; but the sufferings of the people and the church- 
o'oers are very great. In the end the church will be strengthened. 


Maj. Htjmes. What was done with the personal pi'operty of the 
church, gold and silver ornaments, or anything of value, of a per- 
sonal nature ? 

Mr. Huntington. You probably i*efer to the altar, the sanctuary 
ornaments, I imagine. There there were cases of looting, but how 
general I do not know. I know of specific cases which have come up 
before us, but I do not know how general that looting has been. 

Maj. HuJiES. There has been, you say, in particular instances that 
you know of? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes, sir. 

Maj. Humes. You stated this morning that you had 'attended 
meetings of the Soviets in the constituent assembly. How was the 
constituent assembly conducted? Was it a representative body that 
controlled its own deliberations or was it controlled by some one else ? 

Mr. Huntington. The constituent assembly was a bone of conten- 
tion in Russia for a long time. Sometimes the Bolsheviks claimed to 
want it very much, and other times they did not. The constituent 
assembly, of course, as you all know, is supposed to be representative 
of the entire nation, and was to decide the constitution of the future 
Eussia. It was elected in a time of stress. It was elected even at a 
time when there was great Bolshevik influence. But in spite of that 
it turned a large majority against the Bolsheviks. When it was 
finally allowed to meet, about which there was considerable discus- 
sion, it had the majority against the Bolsheviks, and it lasted two 
days. On the second day the sailors appeared in the gallery with 
machine guns and told the deputies to go home, and they went home. 
I speak from knowledge, having been in the assembly. 

Maj. Humes. The sailors side with the Bolsheviks, do they? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes, sir; the sailors were Bolsheviks, and they 
were very often used by the Bolsheviks because they were better 
educated than the ordinary soldiers, and they were very fierce at that 
time. They were amongst some of the hardest of such people that I 
have ever known. 

Senator Overman. How are the Cossacks? How are their feel- 

Mr. Huntington. The Cossacks were the former frontiersmen of 
Eussia, and they had special charters under old Eussia, and lands 
would be granted to them, and that has affected somewhat their atti- 
tude toward Bolshevism, because they did not want to have their 
lands taken away from them. The Bolsheviks have sometimes made 
concessions or made it appear that they did not want to take the Cos- 
sacks' lands ; that is, they were making a special case of them. They 
did at the time win some of the Cossacks, but the main body of them, 
so far as we could see, they have never won. There are people in 
Cossack Eussia, however, who have been in the Bolshevik movement. 

The sailors have been complained of so much that it may not be 
amiss to say, in speaking of their ferocity, which is not sentimental 
or joking but a fact, that I stood one day on the quay, the bank 
of the river Neva, in the building occupied by the National City 
Bank, and looked out of the office and had pointed out to me by the 
manager of the bank a spot on the street in front, which was red — 
a dried-up pool — and he told me that it was blood, and that he and 
his assistant had stood in the window of the bank that morning and 


a squad of sailors had marched along the street, which ifuns along 
the river front, and walking along on the walk had been,' a man in 
an officer's coat, who was walking along by himself, empty handed, 
and that before they came opposite to this man one of them raised 
his musket and shot the officer on the spot, and he was left there, 
and the march of the men was not even stopped to see whether the 
job had been done or not. Afterwards he was picked up. 

Senator Wolcott. He was an officer in the Navy ? 

Mr. Huntington. No, sir; an army officer. 

Senator Wolcott. An army officer? 

Mr. Huntington. Of what grade I do not know. They were not 
wearing epaulettes then, and you could not tell from the coat; only 
from the cap you could tell that he was an officer. 

Maj. Humes. You have cited one instance of the father of a clerk 
of yours who was arrested and executed. Are you familiar with any 
other instances of similar conduct on the part of the government 
authorities ? 

Mr. Huntington. I am sorry if I have given the impression that 
I said he was executed. I do not know whether he has yet been 
executed or not. He was in prison up to the latest advices which we 
had, up to a month or so ago. 

Senator Wolcott. I understood you to say that this man told the 
daughters that he had been killed. 

Mr. Huntington. They told them that, presumably to terrorize 
and scare those girls. 

Senator Wolcott. And the daughters learned afterwards that he 
had not been killed? 

Mr. Huntington. So far as we could find out. No one ever got 
inside to see. They admitted no one. In this case they did not even 
admit the Ked Cross to see this man, although they said they would. 
They did admit the Ked Cross to some prisons. People were con- 
fined in there whom nobody knew about, who people thought had fled 
to other parts of the country, in Moscow, as was the case with our 
own associate Mr. Simmons, who was in prison for 8 or 10 days, 
although he wrote letters and sent telegrams, which went to the com- 
mission, who refused to forward those letters of a supposedly friendly 

Maj. Humes. What tribunal imposes the death penalty and causes 
the execution? * 

Mr. Huntington. The so-called extraordinary committee for 
combatting the counter-revolution. That is headed in Moscow by 
a man who has become famous as Peters, a Lett from the Baltic 
Provinces, who speaks English and is an educated man, and is one 
of the most cruel and fanatic men connected with the entire move- 

Maj. Humes. What does this committee consist of ? Does it consist 
of one man or more than one man ? How is it organized ? 

Mr. Huntington. I can not tell what the system is of selecting 
the people who sit on it. 

Maj. "Humes. Do they pretend to try persons who are accused, or 
is it a summary proceeding? 

Mr. Huntington. I think there is a pretense of trial, but nobody 
knows anything about it, and they do not have to show any record 
or any reason to the -outside world. 


Maj. Humes. The trials are not public, then, if there are trials? 

Mr. Hui^TTNGTON. I do not know of any o'f those trials being pub- 
lic. Ther^ have been trials before a revolutionary tribunal which 
have been public, but that was in an earlier day, such as the trial of 
the woman who was the minister of public welfare under the Keren- 
sky government. But since the establishment of the extraordinary 
commission, I do not Imow of any such trial. There are replicas of 
this extraordinarj' commission in other places. There is one in Petro- 
grad. They are made up, usually, from amongst the most fanatical 
and fiercest of, the local terrorists. 

Maj. Humes. Do you know how many serve on this commission? 

Mr. Huntington. No, sir ; I can not tell you. 

Maj. Humes. I think this morning you were just getting ready to 
take up the economic situation in Russia.. Will you go ahead and 
state to the committee the economic conditions there ? 

Mr. Huntington. The situation has two aspects, as it seems to me. 
It has the moral aspect and the economic aspect. I mean moral in 
the broad sense, of all morality; not sex morality, of course, which 
is the frequent narrow use of the word here. 

The moral aspect has rather been touched upon by the description 
of the terror — of the actual cases, many of which can be cited. I never 
have personally had any great interest in telling thrilling stories to 
make people's nerves tingle. There are .plenty of stories, and you 
may hear others, and I think the case is sufficiently put by the state- 
ment of the Bolshevik Government, in which they do not deny the 
use of terror, but justify it. The moral side is one side. 

The other side is the economic side. In other words, has the move- 
ment succeeded in bringing about any kind of an economic prosper- 
ity ? I do not mean a paradise, or anything like it. To that I can only 
answer most decidedly no ; that there is a complete chaos in Russia ; 
that there is as near to anarchy as there could be and anything go on 
at all ; that the center of the whole thing is really the railroad system, 
which is conducted out of previous habits of good order, and because 
there is the need of living by the railroad men themselves, who, I 
might say, deserve great credit for this, in my opinion. That serves 
to connect the various parts and keeps, to a certain degree, things 
going. The railroad transportation is slowly declining, day by day. 
When we passed out through Siberia and passed back again the side- 
tracks at the stations were filled with locomo'tives, some of them 
American, all rusty, with parts missing, with perhaps a connecting 
rod off, or a throttle taken off, or a cab boarded up, every one of them 
lacking this or that or the other part. Engines had broken down, and 
they had taken this or that or the other part off of one of these en- 
gines to make repairs. The rolling stock wears out day by day, and 
there is no repair shop, and the repairs can not be executed for lack 
of material and because the labor conditions are so unfortunate. 

The production in any factories that have material has dropped off^ 
very greatly, in enormous percentages, anywhere from 500 to 1,000 
per cent. There is lack of discipline in the factories and there is lack 
of food. 

Senator Wolcott. What do you mean by 1,000 per cent? 

Mr. Huntington. I mean 10 times, sir; 10 times 100 per cent. 
There is lack of food. 


Senator Wolcott. Just what do you mean? 

Mr. Huntington. I mean that a factory, for instance, that might 
make formerly 10 locomotives a month now makes 1; such as the 
Kolomensky works. The cotton factories are closed down. There 
was next to no cotton raised in Turkestan this last year on account of 
the disturbances. 

Senator Overman. Heretofore they have been spinning all their 
own yarn and not importing it. The cotton they use comes from 
where ? 

Mr. Huntington. Oh, about one-half of it from outside, from 
Egypt and from us — it did come — and about one-half from them- 
selves, as I remember it. They produced a great part, the principal 
part, of their own needs in cotton goods, and they have some very, 
very large factories for this purpose, founded by Englishmen. A 
German began the movement, but brought over English foremen and 
superintendents, and their successors remain there still, to this day — ■ 
or did. 

There is in the factories not only the lack of discipline and chaos 
in the administration, except where there has been effected a sort of 
agreement between the men and the foreman-proprietor, who gives 
his brains to the running of the factory, which has sometimes oc- 
curred, but there is hunger. A factory inspector of the Young 
Women's Christian Association, who visited practically every fac- 
tory in Moscow, and whose report I have read, says that in many 
cases there was lack of work because there was lack of food, in addi- 
tion to the other causes. 

There is no banking, in the accepted sense. It is impossible to 
transfer money from one town to another to^^n. If there is any pay- 
ment to be made, it is paid in cash. If you want to make a payment, 
you send a man, preferably, with a suitcase with the money in it. The 
banks, formerly private banks, are now called departments 1, 2, 3, 
and 4. of the People's Bank of the Federated Socialist Republic of 
the Soviet. So that you have perhaps the Siberian bank of Petrograd 
being called department No. 1, and the international bank, depart- 
ment No. 2, etc. They carry on no banking business, ordinarily so- 
called, except the passing out of paper money which is paid out to 
factory organizations, those who are still running at all, for the pay- 
ment of workmen. 

Senator Overman. Did they abolish liquor while you were there — 

vodka ? 

Mr. HuN'i-iNGTON. That was done before I arrived. 

Senator Overbian. Did they really abolish it? 

Mr. Huntington. It vvas very efficacious, and for the masses there 

was no liquor when I arrived in Russia. Tliei'e was liquor for people 

who could get it by corrupt methods whicli have always prevailed in 

Russia, ancl have never prevailed there to the extent to which they 

prevail to-day. When we left Russia, passing out, although we had 

the vise of the authorities of Moscow, as soon as we got to Petrograd 

we were held by a commissar, who was unfortunately killed while we 

were there, and he finally let us go. He said he would not recognize 

the authority of the men of the foreign office in Moscow. I mention 

this at this' point to show you that whereas they have a sort of 

authority, the authority of their so-called government is not very 


firm, and when it comes to issuing a constructive or definite restrain- 
ing order they can not do it. An order to loot or to take they can get 
obeyed, but many times they can not get obeyed the other orders 
they issue. 

We were held up, although we had our passports in order. When 
we got to the border we had to pay tribute to get out of the country, 
and did pay tribute to the Red Guard, who were at the border and 
who hustled the baggage, and also to the official at the border who 
conducted it. 

Senator Overmax. Is the Eussian naturally a cruel man ? 

Mr. Huntington. Xo, sir; I should say not. He is naturally a 
kind man, a very easy-going man. 

Senator Overman. Are they hospitable people? 

Mr. Huntington. Very, under normal circumstances. 

Senator Overman. Under present conditions, under this Bolshevik 
movement, the very contrary is the case ? 

Mr. Huntington. A peasant, for instance, who has been taught 
that his landlord is his enemy — although that may not have been the 
case, because many landowners were kind to the peasants — a work- 
man who has been taught the creed of Lenine and Trotsky, which is 
the class warfare; and which says distinctly that your employer is 
your natural enemy, naturally, when he has been so taught, and he is 
hungry, will strike the employer, and he may regret it a week after- 
wards. On the walls of the stairway in the Metropole Hotel in 
Moscow when I went in there the last time in August with two others, 
in perfectly good English, undoubtedly written by Mr. Tchitcherin, 
there was a copy of a poster which they were planning to launch up 
on the Murman coast, for the Bri^is^i and American soldiers. This 
piece was well written, and ^ ery logical, and the only trouble was 
with the first statement. I can not quote it exactly, but it started in 
this way :" Comrades, workmen of Great Britain and America, wliy 
do you come to our shores of this workmen's republic? You liavc 
nothing in common with your employer. He is your enemy. Turn 
around and go home and fight him, and you will achieve hajppiness." 
That is the creed, and when it is taught to simple people who are 
hungry, it produces that effect. The people are, apart from that, 
very kind, and easily led, easily to be had for any idea. 

Senator Overman. What proportion of the people are educated? 

Mr. Huntington. The estimates vary about that. The best esti- 
mate I have ever seen for the army which I thought was trustworthy 
was 50 per cent for the army. I have seen others higher, but I caia 
not, from personal experience and contact with these men, believe 
them. If we accepted 50 per cent for the army, then you would have 
to figure that the army is only a portion of the population and does 
not include the women, and the women have had much less oppor- 
tunity than the men, and our percentage of literacy in the country 
would seem to me, even with a very broad definition, certainly to be 
low; would certainly not be much more than a quarter, on a very 
broad definition of literacy — I mean, not asking that a man know too 

much, but that he be able 

Senator Overman. Do women take part in these mobs, these lynch- 
ings and murders ? 


Mr. Huntington. In mobs there have been women present. In 
many murders, no, sir. I have seen the victims of murders after 
they were killed, but I have' not been present. As, for instance, one 
morning in the embassy news was brought of the killing of the liberal 
minister of finance in the Kerensky government, Mr. Shingaryov, 
who had been a little doctor in south Russia and had come up to the 
Duma had learned state finances and had been one of those who 
fought officials of the old regime in putting their schemes through of 
getting money for the Czar's favorites. This man was arrested and 
was lying in the prison of Peter and Paul with another of the Keren- 
sky ministers, Kokoshkin, who was ill, and they allowed him and 
another man to go to the hospital of the Liteiny Prospect. Into 
that hospital one night at 11 o'clock armed men got by the guards and 
got up to the room of these men and shot them in their beds as they 
lay there. 

That story came to the embassy on Sunday morning and was jiot 
believed, and so I went, at the special request of the ambassador, to 
the hospital on the Liteiny and personally passed through the crowd 
and into the morgue and passed along by the marble slabs in the 
morgue and stopped before the slab on which lay the body of Mr. 
Shingaryov, and next to him this other man, and, knowing him per- 
sonally, I readily identified his body and went back and reported. 
Such things I have no desire, as I say, to tell. I have no desire to 
tell thrilling stories, but of such incidents I can call to mind a good 

Maj. Humes. Are you familiar with any atrocities of the kind com- 
mitted against women? Did you come in contact with anything of 
that kind? 

Mr. Huntington. No. Personally, the only atrocities that I know 
of, the only mistreatment that I know of on the violent scale, I know 
from the town of Irkutsk, from the actions of the guards on entering 
certain houses there to loot, and who pretty roughly handled the 
women, but did not kill them. I believe there are undoubtedly such 
cases, but I, personally, have not seen them. 

Maj. Humes. Proceed with the economic matters. 

Mr. Huntington. The keynote is entire absence of production. 
That is why I am mystified, sometimes, when I read accounts that 
production is going on well. There must be entire lack of produc- 
tion, because there is not only lack of discipline but lack of material. 
The government is founded on demagogy, and therefore has not been 
able to work constructively. We have tried to work with them con- 
structively on a number of occasions. We tried, for instance, to feed 
the city of Moscow from the Volga, and had practically a plan for 
doing that under the International Red Cross when Trotsky blocked 
that, because, for some reasons of his own, he feared it would react 
unfavorably upon his regime. Besides the lack of real administra- 
tive ability amongst these men, there is also the constant additional 
difficulty that they are not interested in building, but they are inter- 
ested primarily in propagating. 

Propagation of their doctrines is the prime idea. The prime idea 
is to get these doctrines propagated, to get the social revolution, as 
they see it, throughout the world, and then do your constructing. Such 
constructing as they have conducted to-day at home has been only 


such as was forced on them or such as they wanted to do for the 
effect on the outside world. Now they are constantly trying to evince 
that their construction is a success. They are not, from a normal 
man's standpoint, capable of constructive work. What constructive 
work is done, is done by neutral people whom they employ on occa- 
sion ; as, for instance, an engineer friend of mine in the ministry 
of railways, v^'hom they appointed director of transportation. He 
found it impossible to keep on with them, because when he issued 
any orders that were not satisfactory to the workmen they were not 
obeyed. And when he went to the soviet, which guaranteed him aid 
and protection — even going so far as to say they would shoot people 
who did not obey, because they were bound to put the country in 
shape and Mr. Lenine said that production was what was needed — 
when he went to them they were afraid of the people in his offices, 
and these people appealed to demagogy and said that they would 
not stand to have this or that measure put through, and the so\'iets, 
of course, gave in. Having founded their power on demagogy, they 
could not do otherwise. They would gladly have made use of us 
and of other foreigners. 

The foreigner, as a rule, has had a better chance than a Russian. 
Among the foreigners theie were clever men and trained. Some of 
them in Russia are some of the cleverest men in the world. The 
Bolsheviks made offers of '' cooperation " to the American Embassy, 
and wanted men for constructive work. This was in December, a 
month after thej- had been in power, and they would promise any- 
thing. They wanted to get experts from America. They knew 
that the people were very badly disciplined, and they thought if we 
would send special men to help them build up their new socialistic 
state, they would punish workmen or peasants who would not obey 
them. They were bound to have discipline and were bound to have 
the work done. Unfortunately, like all the rest of it, it does not get 
beyond words and the paper that it is printed on. 

Senator Wolcott. According to their program, if people do not 
do like they want, shoot them; if they will not work, shoot them; 
if they will not work to suit them, shoot them ? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes; but that is all, of course, because a great 
good is coming out of all this ; and the fact that a few hundred people 
are killed, in their minds does not mean anything. 

Senator Wolcott. Yes; of course, 'the worst tyrants that ever 
lived always appealed to the ultimate good in their behalf. 
Maj. Humes. What about the production of raw materials? 
Mr. Huntington. As to the basic raw materials like coal, for in- 
stance, European Russia is not well provided with coal, to begin 
with. Coal has been in the Ukraine, and they have juggled with the 
transportation and juggled the situation with the Ukraine so that 
there is none coming from there. 

The petroleum came from the Caucasus, but they brought about 
a political situation and an industrial situation in Baku by which no 
more petroleum is produced, and petroleum no longer comes up the 

As for cotton, on account of the conditions in Turkestan, where the 
social war has been going on, and especially on account of the local 
religions and tribes there, cotton production has been very low, so 
that they have not cotton. 


Food there is considerable of, in various points. There was food 
in the south of Russia. There is food in the north of Caucasus. 
There is food in Siberia. But the political situation which they have 
brought about and the breakdown of transportation have made it 
impossible to tap that food ; and more than that, there is food in the 
hands of peasants, and would be more — that is the chief difficulty — 
but their treatment of the peasants has made it impossible for them 
to get any food into the towns. The peasants will not give up the 
food, in the first place, because no goods are exchanged, nothing but 
money, and money is valueless. In the second place, they will not 
give it up at the fixed prices, which bear no relation to the other 
things which they have to buy. 

In Siberia, where there was much food, but under the Bolshevik 
regime I have been in towns where it was very difficult to obtain, and 
yet close outside of those towns there was plenty of food, but the 
peasants did not bring it in. We had meat brought to our house in 
Irkutsk by a peasant girl who had raised the calf and killed it and 
brought it in to sell. She was stopped by a Eed Guard, who took the 
calf away from her. She said that she was a peasant girl, and she 
said, " I am going to take this calf in and sell this meat." She said, 
" I am a poor girl, and I am going to sell this meat." The Red Guard 
said, " You will have to sell it to me and you will have to sell it at the 
normal, set price for meat." She refused to do this, and the result 
was a battle of words between her brother, who happened to be fairly 
good sized, and herself, and this man ; so that finally the calf, in that 
instance, was given up, and we ate it. 

Maj. Humes. Go on with any other phase of the economic situa- 
tion that you have in mind and are familiar with. 

Mr. HuNTiKGTON. Evidently here it is very difficult for people 
living under normal circumstances, as we do, to make any picture of 
life there. In the towns like Petrograd and Moscow, as soon as you 
come into them you immediately mark a strangeness. In Petrograd, 
in September, the town in the first place was very empty. As many 
people had gone away as could. The streets, which are very wide 
and fine, were almost empty. A sorrowful aspect over the whole 
place was very terrible. When I arrived there I fortunately had 
food with me, as every one else had. Everyone brought his food. 
An old servant of the house where I lived offered to share her one- 
eighth of a pound of black bread with me, so that I had a chance to 
see how big that portion was. 

As far as the theaters are concerned, it is often urged that the 
theater is an amusement place, and as the theaters are running, life 
there must be normal. I can only say that some of my principal 
lessons in the Russian language were taken from one of the best actors 
there — one of the second-rate actors, I mean, who never played the 
first role — of the Alexander Theater of Petrograd, and that he was 
heart-broken over the whole matter, and recounted to me the reaction 
of all his actor friends to it, and I was able in the theater afterwards 
to see the reaction on the performance of these people. These theaters, 
like the Art Theater of Moscow, which is perhaps the cleverest in the 
■World, seen in 1918 and seen in 1917 were two different pictures ; and 
doubtless the people act in order to get bread, but there is no heart 
in it. 


Senator Overman. What is the normal size of Petrograd? 

Mr. Huntington. Petrograd and Moscow are nearly the same 
size — ^2,000,000 apiece. Population in war time swelled by the influx 
of refugees. 

Senator Overman. ^^Tien you left there, how many people were 
left in Petrograd? 

Mr. Huntington. I do not know. I have seen and heard esti- 
mates, but I have no waA' to tell except by the general aspect of the 
lown and the lack of people on the streets; no more movement, no 
life, no " go " about it ; the shops, many of them, boarded up. 

Senator Overman. Did the people leave the city on account of the 
terror ? 

Mr. Huntington. Terror and lack of food. 

Senator Overman. It is so in Moscow also? 

Mr. Huntington. Moscow was a little better placed, because Mos- 
cow is nearer the center of the country and it has more railroad 
lines running into it, and is nearer the food-producing area. When I 
speak of the better class of people I do not refer to the old court, 
necessarily, at all. The favorite comparison is made now as if Russia 
was only in two parts, the old court and the new Bolsheviks, and as if 
the Bolsheviks had made the Russian revolution, which they did not; 
but it was made by those people, liberal people of all kinds, people 
who have been fighters against the old regime in bygone days. 

Senator Overman. Where did those better people go; where did 
the merchants and bankers and men of substance go when they left 
the city ? 

Mr. Huntington. Most of them ran to Scandinavia. Some of 
them went to the Ukraine, some of them into the Baltic Provinces, 
which at that time were better places. Some ran to Finland, but that 
got difficult because the Finns did not want more people over there. 
They had too little food themselves. 

The better class, the richer class, including some of the wealthiest 
class, whom Lenine thought he had brolien, are to-day to be found 
in Copenhagen, London, Paris, living along quite all right, while 
some of the finest of the old Liberals and strugglers are living in 
Moscow in apartments, like some friends of mine there, not knowing 
when they will have to get out of the apartment; having people 
thrust on them ; being peremptorily told that this and that man will 
come and live with them to-morrow ; and on their sayin'g, " We have 
not any room ; every room is occupied," being told, " Well, you will 
have to double up." They may never have seen this man, but that 
makes no difference. One has no personal liberty. And then, as 
they have grown more desperate the terror has increased, and there 
comes the constant risk that one's life may be taken. 

Maj. Humes. Have you any idea how many of those people came 
to this country ? 

Mr. Huntington. I think comparatively few came to this coun- 
try, because it was very difficult to get passports, very difficult to 
get out — to get out through the west gate. To get out through the 
gate running from Petrograd to Stockholm you had to get a passport 
from the Swedes before you could leave Russia, because Sweden had 
a rationing of food and did not want to take refugees, and if you 
could get your passport frotn America, then you took it to the 


Swedish and Norwegian authorities, and then with those and a 
Bolshevik passport you could presumably leave and get away if you 
could pass the German blockade on the Baltic Sea on the way across. 

It is rather interesting, since the international point of view of 
these people does not seem to be comprehended here, and the fact 
that they worked for an international movement, to recount the story 
of how Mr. Eansome went to Stockholm. He is an English writer 
of very considerable brilliance and he was in very close relation with 
the Bolshevik government. I hav€ not seen him doing so, but some< 
of our Americans reported to me seeing him in the Bolshevik foreign 
office chatting and shaking hands with the German representatives. 
That, of course, was perfectly in line with his creed, which he never 
denied, so far as I know, of being an internationalist and not recog- 
nizing the German as his enemy. 

He came to the Swedish consul general one day in Moscow and 
asked the consul general for a passport — to vise his Bolshevik pass- 
port; not his usual passport, but his Bolshevik courier's passport; 
that is, the passport of a courier carrying documents, which covers 
the courier and the documents in a sealed bag, which he carries. He 
did not show his British passport. He had a Bolshevik passport. 
He asked for a vise on this. The Swedish consul general looked at 
him and said, " Why, you are an Englishman." He said, " Yes." 
He said, "There is no use my viseing your passport. You will get 
on that boat and they (the Germans) will put you off at Helsingfors," 
which was the prominent point where their boats stopped. " They 
will take you off the boat there." He said, " No ; they will not." 
The consul general said, " I am not going to make a fool of myself 
and vise your passport." Kansome came again and was refused in 
the same way. The consul general said there was no use to talk 
about it. He said, " You will be arrested. I do not care to be foolish 
about it." 

Finally he came a third time, and he had with him Mr. Karl Radek, 
who was the representative of the Bolshevik foreign commissariat 
in charge of western European affairs, whose name has prominently 
figured in the Bolshevik group in Germany recently as directing 
their operations or advising with them. Mr. Radek told the Swedish 
consul general that they wanted Mr. Eansome's passport vised. He 
was told by the consul general, " It is useless for me to do that. The 
Germans will take him off, with a passport vised. They know he 
is an Englishman." Mr. Radek said, "You leave that to us. Mr. 
Ransome is going out to the outside, to tell the truth about our 
work." This is rather interesting, at a time, of course, when no 
messages for any of the allied countries could pass out, nor could 
the newspaper correspondents pass out except at great risk, through 
underground channels; yet to tell the truth about their movement 
Mr. Ransome was being sent by the Bolsheviki, and on his voyage 
to Sweden guaranteed against capture by the Germans, to do this 

Senator Wolcott. As a sequel to that, did Mr. Ransome — I do 
not know anything about the man, but did he get out with the 
rest of the world ? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes; he got out into Stockholm. I do not 
know where he is now. In Stockholm, I suppose he is. 


Senator Wolcott. Do you kno\\- whether he is writing any arti- 
cles for the papers for publication? 
Mr. Huntington. Yes ; I think so. 

Senator Wolcott. Any that are being published in this country? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes; he is a very interesting writer. 

Senator Wolcott. From what you say, we are entitled to say that 

anything Mr. Ransonie puts out in this country ovqv his name is 

the expression of an agent of this Bolshevik bunch of people in 


Mr. Huntington. It is certainly- the expression of a man whom 
they regard as a good propagandist, or interpreter of their spirit 
and work; yes. 

Senator Wolcott. Have you seen any of his articles in this 
country ? 

Mr. Huntington. No, sir ; I have not. 

Senator Overman. Have you observed in this country, since your 
return, any Bolshevik jDropaganda going on — any appearance of it 
in this country? 

Mr. Huntington. I have been here a short time, and I have made 
very little study of the matter up to this time, since I have been 
mostly engaged with the organization of my own work, v.-hich is 
Russian-American trade relations, preparing for the future. It 
seems to me, though, that this is hot a case for fine-drawn distinc- 
tions. If it be urged that the Bolshevik Government is honest 
and fair and true, if it be urged by speakers here that it be 
recognized and dealt with, when you had read to you this morn- 
ing that its object is to upset every government in the world — to 
urge people to have such friendly relations with it is tantamount to 
urging them to have relations with an agency which contemplates 
their ultimate destruction. Unless it "has repealed and taken back 
these principles which it has, all along, been enunciating (of which 
I do not know), by actual design or favorable consideration and the 
condoning of the terror it seems to me one makes it easier for these 
same people to then spread the doctrines which they preach, and 
which there is no hypocrisy about, it being a matter of public record 
in our country and other countries. 

Senator Overman. Did you notice, when you were over there, any 
effort to make propaganda of these and other doctrines in other 
countries ? 

Mr. Huntington. Constantly. That is the chief thing they have 
tried to do — the chief thing they have done up to this time. 

Senator Wolcott. Are you going to some other subject now, 

Maj. Humes. I was going to take that right up. 
Are you familiar with any particular instances where the agencies 
of the Bolsheviki regime went into neutral countries for the purpose 
of carrying their propaganda, financed from Russia ? 

Mr. Huntington. Wlien I was in Sweden in September, it was 
brought to my attention by a Socialist friend, who arrived on a boat 
from Petrograd, that the former commissar of finance, Mr. Gukovsky, 
had come on that boat with a young lady, and Mr. Gukovsky had 
18 trunks and the young lady was reported to have had three, 
fl.nd the chief contents of the trunks, or one of the chief articles 


contained in the trunks, was said to be upward of 60,000,000 rubles of 
old currency, or at least currency printed on the dies of the old 
regime — the fine old bills. Those bills were worth in Stockholm at 
that time, where there was a considerable market, about 52/100 of a 
Swedish crown, depending upon the market, whereas the new so- 
called Kerensky money, printed from the new designs, was only 
41/100 of a crown. The small shin plaster " kerenki," in denomina- 
tions of 20 and 40 rubles, brought about 30/100 of a Swedish crown. 
Maj. Humes. What is the money of the Bolsheviki regime worth, 

Mr. Huntington. At that rate, that quantity of money would rep- 
resent something like 30,000,000 Swedish crowns, or by the exchange 
of that day, about 10,000,000 American dollars, for propaganda pur- 

Senator Overman. For Bolshevik propaganda^ 
Mr. Huntington. For propaganda purposes. For propaganda 
purposes in Sweden they had a legation. I did not go into it, but 
of course many people have been in it. They had there a score of 

In Copenhagen they had another such legation. In Bergen they 
had their agent ; but chiefly in Copenhagen and Stockholm they had 
large legations that were steadily at work all' the time putting out 
propaganda into the Swedish and Danish nations, with the idea of 
catching the workmen in those countries. 

Senator Overman. Do you know of any effort in this country? 
Mr. Huntington. I have made very little study of it, sir; but there 
ure appearing lately, apparently in the last few days, journals which 
I have seen, which certainly advocate a very friendly attitude toward 
the Bolshevik, in which certiiiu articles, written by them, appeared. 
As, for instance, a journal called " The Liberator," in which an ar- 
ticle by Mr. Lenine appeared ; and others like that, advocating their 
system, have appeared. 

Senator Overman. It seems from what you say that they have a 
large fund outside of Russia for this propaganda work in order to 
overturn all the governments of the world. 
Mr. Huntington. That is my understanding. 
Senator Overman. Do you think they go into England and Ger 
many also, with their propaganda? 

Mr. Huntington. I know that they have been in Germany, work 
ing as hard as they can. In England they are working, yes, too. 
Senator Overman. And in France? 
Mr. Huntington. Yes ; oh, yes. 

Senator Wolcott. Coming back to this man Ransome — what is his 
full name? 

Mr. Huntington. I think his first name is Arthur. I do not know 
any other name. 

Senator Wolcott. It runs in my mind, in a rather hazy way, that 
I have seen some articles in newspapers in this country by that man. 
Mr. Huntington. He wrote for the New York Times, for a serv- 
ice in which they were partakers, and for a long time, I was told by 
one of their editors, they printed his articles because they thought 
they were interesting and because it gave the other side of the story. 
They said they used to print them and put a headline over them 
85723—19 6 


explaining who he was. I have never seen that. I was not here at 
that period. 

Senator Wolcott. He came out of Russia when ? 

Mr. Huntington. I could get the exact date, perhaps, out of a 
diary or a notebook. I should think it was in July. 

Senator Wolcott. In 1918? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes; maybe in August. 

Senator Wolcott. Apparently the Russian Bolshevik official who 
induced the Swedish consul to vise his passport had some connection 
with the German authorities which wag of such nature that this 
man Ransome would be allowed to go on to his destination, showing 
that there was some connection between the Bolsheviks and some- 
l30dy in Germany. Were the Spartacans at that particular time in 
the ascendancy in Germany? 

Mr. Huntington. No; the change in Germany had not taken 
place. Their relations were founded upon a treaty of peace and 

Senator Wolcott. Oh, yes; that was in July, 1918. Of course, 
that was before the armistice? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes. That treaty was with the Imperial Ger- 
man Government. 

Senator Wolcott. The Kaiser was still on the throne ? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes. 

Senator Overman. They carried the red flag. That is what it 
means, " the Reds "? Is that what these Bolsheviks carry? 

Mr. Huntington. The flag is, of course, simply of the socialist 

Senator Overman. It is simply revolutionary ? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes. 

Senator 0^^;EMAN. Do the socialists carry it. also? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes. 

Senator Overman. And do the I. W. W. carry it, also? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes. 

Senator Overman. The I. W. W. have a red flag, the Bolsheviks 
have a red flag, and the socialists have a red flag. What does that 
all mean — the red flag? Is it just an emblem of revolution? 

Mr. Huntington. It means not always the same thing. 

Senator Overman. On the railroads something like that means 
danger ahead. On automobiles, in the rear, it means danger. 

Mr. Huntington. In the case of the Bolsheviks it means interna- 
tionalism without regarding nationalit}'^, and the spirit of the social 
revolution throughout the world. 

Senator Overman. What does it mean with the socialists? 

Mr. Huntington. In the case of the socialists, in the case of the 
honest socialists, as far as I understand it — of course I am defining 
it as an outsider — it means a symbol of the emancipation of society 
which they hope to achieve by honest methods. 

Senator Overman. What does it mean in the I. W. W. ? 

Mr. Huntington. I do not know about the I. W. W. I have not 
been in contact with that organization. 

Senator Overman. Is it not very significant that all these asso- 
ciations have the same flag, the red flag? 


Mr. Htjntington. That has occurred to me, but I have not fol- 
lowed it. 

Senator Overman. That thej' all should adopt one flag, is not that 
significant ? 

Maj. Humes. At the time of the Ransome incident, is it not true' 
that the Bolshevik government had an ambassador in Germany? 

Mr. Huntington. Oh, yes; they had 

Maj. Humes. That was after the treaty of peace, and they were 
officially represented in Germany ? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes; they were in friendly relations with Ger- 
many. There was no reason in the world why they should not have 
relations with Germany after the signing of the treaty of peace with 

Maj. Humes. So that they were at that time on friendly terms 
with the German Government and in touch with the German Gov- 
ernment through their diplomatic service? 

Mr. Huntington. Oh, yes. 

Senator Overman. Do you know what sort of flag the nihilists 
have ? Is that a red flag also ? 

Mr. Huntington. I do not know. 

Senator Overman. And how about the anarchists? 

Mr. Huntington. The anarchists have a black flag. 

Senator Wolcott. Do you know whether or not there are any 
speakers or writers in this country who are acting in the interests of 
• this world-wide Bolshevik movement ? 

Mr. Huntington. I do not know. I only can tell anything at all 
by reading the speeches and contributions of people in the press, and 
where they appear to be not only friendly to the Bolshevik govern- 
ment, but to desire that it be aided and helped ; and either they do 
this in ignorance or they do it hoping that the ideals of the so-called 
soviet government will be realized in this country or other coun- 
tries where they may be working. 

Senator Wolcott. At all events, you do see in the public prints in 
this country, at one time and another, things that are entirely in 
harmony with these Bolshevik expressions? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes. 

Senator Overman. Did you go to this meeting at Poll's Theater 
that people have been talking about ? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes. 

Senator Overman. Was that speaking there in line with that? 

Mr. Huntington. What was done there was very definite. There 
were two speakers, a gentleman and a lady, who each one in his 
own way handled this question, and who spoke from experience in 
Russia, and who praised the movement there, and who justified its 
activities there. 

Senator Overman. Were they American citizens? 

Mr. Huntington. I think so. 

Senator Wolcott. They had just come from Russia? 

Mr. Huntington.- I do not know how lately. I do not know the 
exact date of their arrival here ; within a few months, I think. 

Senator Wolcott. My recollection is that that meeting was a 
n)e«i-.iin« that was called for the nurnose of telling the people herp> 


in the Capital the truth about Russia. Was not that the express 
purpose of the meeting? 

Mr. Huntington. That was the caption in the newspaper adver- 

Senator Wolcott. They used the same phrases exactly as were 
employed by the Bolshevik man over in Russia when he was inducing 
the Swedish consul to vise the passport oi Mr. Ransome, who, ac- 
cording to the Bolsheviki, was going out into the world to tell the 
truth about Russia? 

Mr. Htjntington. Yes. 

Maj. Humes. Were you present at that meeting? 

Mr. Huntington. In Washington, here? 

Maj. Humes. Yes. 

Mr. Huntington. Yes, sir. 

Maj. Humes. What do you say as to the statements made by those 
persons being the truth about Russia ? 

Mr. Huntington. Well, I took careful note of many of them, and 
it seemed to me that, in the light of my own knowledge, they were 
not true, at all. What this was founded on, whether on poor obser- 
vation or ignorance of the subject or willful misrepresentation, I do 
not know; but I do not believe that the audience heard the truth 
about Russia. 

Maj. Humes. Do you or do you not know, as a fact, that the man 
who spoke on that occasion came to this country purporting to offi- 
cially represent the Bolshevist government? 

Mr. Huntington. I do not know. I have heard that, but I do not 
kno^v of my own knowledge. 

Maj. PIuMES. Do you know from your own knowledge of an at- 
tempt made, while you were in Russia, by an emissary of the Bol- 
shevist government to present credentials of the Bolshevist gov- 
ernment in this country? 

Mr. Huntington. I know of it simply because of having been em- 
ployed in the American Embassy, that there was a request made by 
the Bolshevik commisar of foreign affairs, the date of which I do not 
recall, since it was not my business — it was told to me as a matter of 
interest only by another whose business it was — to accredit Mr. John 
Reed as consul general of the people's soviet government in New 

Senator Overman. Is he the man that is interned now? 

Maj. Humes. No; he has been indicted. 

Senator Wolcott. Was it his wife that was at this meeting, speak- 

Mr. Huntington. I understand so. 

Senator Wolcott. Did she call herself Mrs. Reed ? 

Maj. Humes. No; Louise Bryant was the name she went by here. 

Senator Wolcott. She is the wife, then, of an aspirant to the 
office of consul of the Bolsheviki? 

Senator Overman. Did she speak here ? 

Maj. Humes. Yes, sir; under the name of Louise Bryant. 

Senator Overman. I noticed a communication in that document 
you had, from John Reed ? 

Maj. HmsiEs. Yes. 

Senator Overman. And there is one from Lenine. 


Maj. Humes. Can you point out some of the erroneous statements 
that were made by these two speakers at the meeting in question ? I 
do not want to go over their addresses in detail, but just as you think 
of them, just the high spots. 

Mr. Huntington. If that would be of value, I have notes, but not 
with me, on that. I could take those up if it should be thought de- 
sirable to do so. 

Maj. Humes. I do not know whether the committee would care to 
take that up in detail or not. 

Mr. Huntington. I think it is rather long. 

Senator Overman. I think he has told generally about it — that 
it is the Bolshevik doctrine that they are preaching there, and it is 
not true. 

Maj. Humes. You stated a few moments ago that the Bolslieviki 
were represented in Germany by an ambassador. What other coun- 
try received ambassadors or ministers? 

Mr. Huntington. They had relations with the neutral Scandi- 
navian countries, Sweden, Norway, and Denmark, and they also had 
relations with Holland and Switzerland. Holland's minister has 
left, and the Swedish minister and all the consular officers have been 
recalled, and I understand the Norwegian also, and it has since ap- 
peared in the papers that the Danish minister appeared in Paris at 
the peace confei-ence. The papers also stated that the Swiss minister 
had some -difficulty in getting away. I can not say whether he has 
finally left or not. 

Senator Oveeman. Do you know whether this Bolshe^-ik move- 
ment is in Switzerland, Norway, and Denmark? 

Mr. Huntington. They are all free countries, all democratic 
countries, and from time immemorial Switzerland has been a country 
in Europe where people might say what they liked, and take refuge, 
and these people have enjoyed Switzerland's hospitality like many 

Senator Oveeman. Is there an eifort to infuse that doctrine among 
the Swiss? 

Mr. Huntington. Most decidedly. 

Maj. Humes. You said something with reference to graft in 
Russia. What do you know about the question of graft in the pres- 
ent regime? 

Mr. Huntington. Well, I can only repeat the words of a business 
man who was trying to do business there. When I asked him that 
question, he stated he had never found it so expensive to do business 
as now. As a matter of fact, the places in the ministi'y, or so-called 
commissariats, are filled by chance men, and these men are changed 
often, and lots of times these men are simply men who have never had 
much opportunity in, life, and therefore perhaps have not built up 
strong characters or principles, and also because they think they may 
need the money. As a matter due to the lack of morality, and an 
anarchical condition, the use of money for such purposes is very fre- 
quent and usual. 

Senator Oveeman. Was not that so under the old regime, that there 
was bribery and corruption? 

Mr. Huntington. There always has been in Eussia, which par- 
takes of the Orient in that way, but never to such an extent as now. 


Senator Over Ji an. If you wanted things done you would have to 
grease them I 

Jlr. HuNTiNGTox. Yes: but strangely enough under the monarchy 
the bargain was observed, and if the grease had been given, as a rule 
it was thorouglily standardized — if you will overlook my apparent 
cynicism — and the promise that was given was kept, while at present 
people have no hesitancy in accepting money and turning on the 
giver, which seems to be a little worse than the other, although 
neither is defensible. The difficulty under the old regime was the 
oriental character of the people, and was in numy places also due 
to the low pay of the government officials, who came to regard these 
fees which they received as a part of their income. An official in the 
ministry of commerce, we will say, through wlwse hands certain 
applications and papers p)assed, and who by signing a paper quickly 
could forward it and get a matter through, instead of the slow prog- 
ress it usually made, would accept a fee for it, salving his con- 
science by saying that he ought to receive it from the government, 
and since they did not pay it he Avould take it from these men. 

Senator Wolcott. Coming back to this Washington meeting for a 
moment. You say 3'ou were down there and took notes. While 
there was praise of the soviet government of Russia, was there or 
not any criticism or denunciation of our form of government in this 
country ? 

Mr. HrXTiN(!TOX. I was at the meeting from -1 o'clock until about 
half past 4. That was the period of the two speeches and of the 
introductions. There was no more criticism of our form of govern- 
ment in that time, as far as the introducer or the speakers were 
concerned, than would be usual in a political discussion on their 
part. During the period I was there the criticism was only by 
implication; that is, thev defended and advocated and urged aid for 
and consideration for, and justified, a government whose avowed 
purpose is to' overthrow ours. They did not, during the time 
I was there, say anything directly about the overthrow of the Gov- 

Senator Wolcoit. Doctor, do you know anything of an incident or 
a rather gruesome thing that occurred in Eussia that had to do 
with throwing some dukes or grand dukes down into a well and 
firiiio- band grenades in on them? 

]^.Ir. Hux-JiNGTOx. There was a thing of that kind reported in the 
Ural JMountains, in the cit^' of Ekaterinburg, which is a sort of 
capital in the I^rals, a city of some size, and a mining center. It was 
in this city that the Czar and his family were confined. Also grand 
dukes had been confined there, and .some others at times. The letter, 
Avritten in November by an American business man, who was there, 
states it as a fact that this was done, and that the bodies were re- 
<jovered. That is all I know. 

Senator Wolcutt. How many of them were thrown in there? 

^Ir. Huntin(;tox. I do not know. 

Senator Wolcott. Was it into a well that the letter stated they 
were thrown? 

iir. HrxTixcTox. Yes, sir. 

Senator Wolcott. And hand grenades thrown on them? 

]Mr. HrxTixGTOx. Thrown on them; ves. 


Senator Wolcott. And all of them killed in there ? 

Mr. Huntington. Yes; that was the account. 

Senator Overman. Plow is the treatment of women and children? 

Mr. Huntington. Why, nothing special. The Bolshevik theory of 
government, which has got all the liberal innovations — the good with 
the bad, all kinds, of course — is the equal rights of women. 
The practice is all right toward them as far as any attention is 
paid at all to the women and children, except the women and 
children of the former so-called upper classes, who are consid- 
ered as class enemies and who may be let alone or who may be 
arrested. The Official Gazette of September 5, which I did not read 
this morning but of which you have a copy, said that they arrested 
Kerensky's wife and children as hostages. There are reports that 
the children have been killed. I could not state. 

Senator Overman. They regarded men and women as equals, and 
if they imposed cruelties on men they treated the women the same 
way, taking the property away from them ? 

Mr. Huntington. Certainly, as far as that is concerned. 

Senator Overman. They made no difference with women, either 
for or against? 

Mr. HuNiTNGTON. No ; except that the women come less in con- 
tact with them from the fact of having more to do at home. They 
come under the tyranny; as friends of mine did who were called 
before a commissar and were told that they must take men into 
their quarters to live there; and they may be embarrassed by them 
living in small places, and not being able to be shut off from people 
whom they have never seen. I do not loiow of anything besides that, 
out of my personal knowledge. I know — not personally, but by 
an account given by another — that in Moscow many women were im- 
prisoned, and in a particular instance a Russian lady in whose 
house a British diplomatic representative lived, was in the same 
prison and described the conditions. That is all I know of any par- 
ticular case. 

Senator Overman. Is there any considerable number of women in 
the army over there ? 

Mr. HuxTiNGTON. No, sir. There was the so-called women's bat- 
talion under the government of Kerensky, which doubtless repre- 
sented on their part, or at least of part of them, a noble striving, and 
on the part of others a spirit of adventure; but it had no material 
weight in the scale at all. 

Senator Overman. There was not any considerable number? 

Mr. Huntington. No, sir. 

Senator Overman. Any questions. Major? 

Maj. Humes. I have no other questions at this time. 

Senator Overman. We are very much obliged to you. 

Mr. Huntington. If there is anything else that I can tell you, I 
am at your disposal. 

Senator Overman. Thank you. If we need any other testimony, 
we shall call on you. 

Now, is there any other witness that you can put on this after- 

Maj. Humes. Yes, sir; Mr. Harper. 



(The witness was sworn by the chah-man.) 

Maj. Humes. Mr. Harper, where do you live? 

Mr. Harper. Chicago. 

3Iaj. Humes. In what business or profession are you engaged? 

Mr. Harper. I am a teacher in the University of Chicago. 

Maj. Humes. Have you during a number of years past given 
special attention to Eussia and to Russian conditions and Eussian 
history '. 

Mr. Harper. ]My special topic of study has been Eussia. My 
official title in the' university is assistant professor of Eussian lan- 
guage and institutions. I have devoted the major portion of my 
time during the last 15 years to the study of Eussian institutions, 
Eussian historj'. and Eussian political movements. 

Maj. Humes. How much time have you spent in Eussia during 
that period? 

Mr. Harper. An aggregate, I should say, of about four years, but 
it has been spread out. I have been able to go to Eussia frequently 
by arrangements with the university or other institutions with which 
I have been connected. I have made to Eussia 12 visits, varying in 
length from two to six months. 

Maj. Humes. When were you last in Eussia? 

Mr. Harper. In 1917. I arrived in Eussia the end of June, 1917, 
and left the end of September of that same year, 1917. 

Maj. Humes. That was during the so-called Kerensky regime? 

Mr. Harper. Yes. I arrived when Prince Lvoff was still prime 
minister of the first provisional government. 

Maj. Humes. Have you during the last few years been in the 
service of the Government in connection with anj^ Eussian work? 

Mr. Harper. I have not been in the service of the Government in 
the sense of being officially appointed as a Government official or at- 
tached officially to an embass;\' , but in my last two visits to Eussia. in 
1916 and 19l7, I offered my services to the ambassador, and my 
services were used occasionallj' as an interpreter. But I have had no 
official connection with the Government in the sense of being ap- 
pointed to a definite task or being paid for a definite piece of work. 

Maj. HuJiEs. Now, Professor, Avill you outline the changes in the 
Government of Eussia, commencing with the overthrow of the mon- 
archical government, the different forms of government, and the the- 
ories of government of the different regimes ? 

Mr. Harper. The form of government before the revolution was 
somewhat difficult to define in our terms. 

Maj. Humes. What do you mean by revolution? 

^Mr. Harper. Before the revolution of March, 1917. The head of 
the state was an emperor so that we call it a monarchical form of gov- 
ernment. The fundamental laws, what would be our Constitution, 
spoke of him as an autocrat. There had been instituted since 1905 a 
representative elective assembly, the Duma, elected not by direct suf- 
frage, but elected on a system of elections bj' which all groups of the 
population were represented, though not in proportion to their 
number. It was in that sense a representative body. It had legisla- 
tive functions, but it did not have much control over the adminis- 


tration. In view of the fact that they had a legislature elected, it 
was technically called a constitutional form of government, though 
in actual practice the parliament had very little independent voice 
in the affairs of the country. It had no control over the administra- 
tion. It did control legislation to a certain extent. 

This institution was introduced in 1905. From the very start there 
was conflict between what Avas called the government, that is the 
executive, and this legislative body. The first Duma sat only two 
months and was dissolved. The second Dmna sat only two months 
and was dissolved. A change in the election law was introduced by 
which a larger share in the voting and dominant conti-ol of the elec- 
tions Avas secured to the landlord and manufacturing classes in the 
third Duma. 

Senator Wolcott. That change in election law was made by 
whom ? 

Mr. Harper. It was made by the sovereign, by the Emperor, and 
this was quite distinctly a coup d'etat. It was an infringement of the 
constitution — the fundamental laws. 

Senator Wolcott. It was not made by the legislative body of the 
nation ? 

Mr. Harper. No. It was made by the sovereign. 

Senator Wolcott. Had this Duma any real legislative power ? 

Mr. Harper. In the fundamental law one clause read that no meas- 
ure could become a law without the sanction of the imperial council — 
which was an upper house, half appointed and half elected — and the 
Imperial Duma. Various devices were used to get around that pro- 
vision. I will cite just one. In the fundamental law there was also 
a provision that in the event of emergency the administration or 
executive could introduce a measure, and could apply that measure 
immediately, the provision being made, however, that within 60 
days after the reconvening of the legislature the measure must be^ 
submitted to the legislature. 

Senator Wolcott. Was it under the emergency provision that the 
Czar proclaimed the change in this election law that you spoke of ? 

Mr. Harper. No; he did not. In the manifesto dissolving the 
second Duma and introducing the new electoral law, though I do not 
recall the words exactly, he pointed out that this second Duma had 
not proven worthy ; that the system of election was faulty ; and he 
appealed to his historic right to change the law. It was frankly a 
coup d'etat. 

This third Duma was elected, if I remember correctly, in 1907. It 
went through its full period of five years, but toward the end of 
its session, despite the fact that it had been elected under this new 
law which gave to the propertied classes the majority of the seats in 
the electoral colleges that elected the Duma — it was' an indirect 
election — ^the Duma developed an oppositionary spirit. 

During the elections for the fourth Duma in 1912 — I happened to 
be in Kussia at thei time — the administration was able, through 
its local officials, to exercise a very definite control over the elections, 
and the fourth Duma had even a larger majority of the landlord and 
manufacturing classes. They were politically the more conservative 
element of the community, and this election law was a very interesting 
law in that it definitely provided for representation of all groups of 


the population. I avoid the word " class," and call them groups — 
economic groups. The Eussian community had been divided into 
economic groups verj- rigidly for a great many generations. The 
system of taxation was perhaps the most important factor behind this 
distribution of the population into economic groups. Roughly, a man 
who was a landlord owning a large estate would be in the landlord 
group; the manufacturer would be in tlie manufacturers' group. 
There would also be the worlonen group and the peasant group. 
Those were the largest groups. The clei'gy were also a group by 
themselves, the basis not being economic entirely, although to a cer- 
tain extent, because the clergy under the old regime received not 
only a salary but were assigned a certain amount of land, which the 
village priest either cultivated himself or had cultivated, and that 
■was iDart of his means of subsistence. 

This electoral laAv provided for the repi'esentation of each of those 
groups, and it provided that the peasants must elect a peasant 
representative from their own number to this assembly. Without 
going into the detail of that law, the result was that one found in 
the fourth Duma, on the eve of the war, landlords, one found manu- 
facturers, one found peasants — that is to say, men who came from the 
villages — and one found workmen who were elected under this elec- 
toral system from the factories. In one sense it was a very repre- 
sentative bod}', in that all groups had tlieir spokesman, the basis of 
the law being that workmen's interests could be represented only by 
workmen, and peasants' interests by peasants. 

Theoretically, then, all groups were represented, and it was a ques- 
tion of the weight that the electoral law ga\e to each grouj). If I 
am not mistaken, of the 450 members of the Duma, only 13 or 14 
were workmen, and the peasants were about 80, one from each of 
the provinces, and some had slipped in in addition to the peasant 
deputies that had been elected under the provisions of the law from 
each province. Then the rest were professional men, men of the 
liberal professions, landlords or manufacturers, the landlord and 
manufacturing classes being given by the law a majority in the 

The fourth Duma worked with the government for the first 
period of its existence, but very early, before the war, there developed 
the conflict between the Duma, representing the beginning of con- 
stitutionalism in Eussia, and the government. This conflict was 
very bitter on the eve of the war. The first reports from Eussia 
after the declaration or outbreak of war in August, 1914, spoke of 
a session of the Duma that was called. The Duma was called, was 
convened in extraordinary session, and the reports of the speeches 
there showed that all the leaders of the various parties in the Duma — 
and there were social democrats and reactionaries — were going to 
drop their political strife in support of the government, and the 
Duma voted the war appropriations asked for by the government. 

When the war began to go against Eussia, and members of the 
Duma saw the inefficienc}- with which the war was being conducted, 
they demanded a reconvening of the Duma, which took place in the 
early months of 1915, and at that meeting it was clear that conflict 
was again developing between the Duma and the government, 
not on the basis of any internal political questions, but on the 


basis of the acts and methods of the government in organizing 
the machinery for the prosecution of tlie war. This conflict took 
a sharper turn in the beginning of the second year of tlie Avar 
after the defeats and military disasters on the southwestern front, 
and in Poland particularly, and the Duma was convened but not 
allowed to sit for a very long period. 

I left Eussia, on my second visit since the outbreak of the war, in 
September, 1916, and by that date the conflict between the Duma and 
the government had Ijecome very definite, and those of us who 
Avere following that phase of the situation saw very many evidences 
pointing to an open conflict between the public, which was repre- 
sented with the limitations that I have indicated in this Duma, and 
the government, or administration, the ruling group. 

The history of the revolution, as given by Dr. Huntington, points 
out that during the period of the revolution itself, that first week, 
the Duma played a very important role, and it was from the com- 
mittee of the Duma that the first provisional government was ap- 
pointed, in collaboration — that is, after consultation — with the lead- 
ers in these other institutions, the so^-iets, that emerged from the first 
•days of the revolution. 

The first government after the revolution was the provisional gov- 
ernment. It was called the provisional government, the word '' pro- 
visional '" indicating that it was not a permanent government, but 
provisional until the convening of a constituent assembly that would 
determine the form of government for Eussia. This first provisional 
government Avas not in a technical and political sense responsible 
to anybody. It did not consider itself responsible to the Duma. 
This Duma connnittee had met during those first da3's of the 
revolution and selected this government, and continued to meet 
but really as a private gathering. The Duma was not abolished. It 
was a very moot question as to what the status of the parliament of 
the old I'egime was after the revolution. The government was not 
responsible to these new institutions, the Soviets, that had grown iip, 
that had emei-ged with the revolution, institutions organized defi- 
nitely on the class Itasis, councils of workmen and soldiers and coun- 
cils of peasants. 

In the first proA'isional government there Avas one member who 
Avas at the same time the vice president of the central committee of 
the Petrograd council of workmen and soldiers' deputies, which Avas 
the first of the councils to emerge, and that Avas Kerensky, but he 
was not in there as the representative of the council, and he Avas not 
technically responsible to the Soviets. This first proA-isional govern- 
ment Avas, therefore, as its name indicated, a provisional government 
exercising a kind of supreme authority. One could hardly call it a 
dictatorship, but it Avas not responsible to any legislatiA-e body. It 
recognized the influence of the Soviets as shown by the facts that 
in the second month of the reA'olution tAvo members of the goA-- 
emment resigned largely because of the attitude and the criticisms 
of their policies and of their acts in the Soviets. The Soviets in- 
stituted themselves as the organization of what was knoAvn as the 
reA'olutionary democracy of the Avorkmen, of the peasants, and of 
the soldiers. They did not pretend during those first two months 
of the revolution to exercise political power in the technical sense. 


The resolution of the soviet executive council said definitely that 
they would support the provisional government so long as it clearly 
by its policies showed it was following a democratic line. The 
soviet constituted^itself as a land of watchdog over the provisional 

After the resignation of the two ministers of the first provisional 
government, because of the attitude toward them of the Soviets, the 
question of a frank coalition government in which should be repre- 
sented members of all parties, was taken up, and the nonsocialists in- 
sisted on the formation of what is generally Iniown as and what was 
specifically called in Eussia a coalition government, in which there, 
should be representatives of all parties, socialists, nonsocialists. and 
the socialist members who were in this coalition government were 
also members of the soviet. 

Again, it was not a question of their being selected by the Soviets, 
elected from the soviet to represent the Soviets in the government. 
They merely recognized their personal responsibility to the soviet. 
and were constantly reporting to the soviet on their policies, appear- 
ing before the Soviets, justifying their measures before the Soviets. 
That was the coalition form of government that was introduced in 
June. It still called itself a provisional government, waiting for the 
constituent assembly to determine the final form of government in 
Eussia. There were later changes in the composition of the pro- 
visional government at moments of crisis. At such moments of crisis 
many persons would resign, and thei'e were a whole series of crises 
from July on. Other membeis would be brought in. The coalition 
idea was maintained, however, up to the time of the Bolsheviki coup 
d'etat, there being in the provisional go\'ernment always representa- 
tives of the two main political groups or tendencies, the nonsocialists 
and the socialists. 

We could hardly speak of that as a definite form of government. 
It was a provisional form of government to carry the country through 
the first months until the constituent assembly could be convened. 

The revolution was in March, 1917. The date for the convening of 
the constituent assembly was fixed for September, 1917. That date 
was later postponed to Decembei'. 1917, the postponement being made 
when Kerensky, who was prime minister, saw that it would be impos- 
sible to conduct the election, not because no preparations had been 
made, but because the economic organization of the country had col- 
lapsed, and the war burdens and general disorganization of the coun- 
try, not produced by the revolution entirely, but inherited from the 
old regime, made it impossible to carry out the reelections of local 
goveniment bodies which were to take place before the general elec- 
tions for the constituent assemlily. 

In July and August they started to reelect, under a new law, the 
local government bodies, the municipal councils, and what the Eus- 
sians call their provincial councils, somewhat similar to our county 
councils, local government in rural as opposed to urban com- 
munities. These elections took place in July and August. The sys- 
tem of election was universal suffrage, direct vote, proportional repre- 
sentation. These new bodies were to be elected on the basis of elec- 
tion lists that were prepared during the registration of those first 
months. Then, one of their first tasks was to be the verification of 


the registration or election lists, so that on the basis of these verified 
.election lists the election for the constituent assembly could take place. 

We often hear the statement that the provisional government delib- 
erately postponed the convening of the constituent assembl}'. I have 
personally felt that that statement was not a correct statement ; that 
the reasons given for postponing were perfectly valid. The Kerensky 
government stated definitely, as I recall it, that it would be a mistake 
to sacrifice regularity of election in order to have the constituent 
assembly meet a little earlier. Those of us who were there at the 
time saw the confusion of the coimtrv, and knew that \'\'hen there 
had been elections in Russia before they had been on a class basis, 
the community having been divided into groups; that there never has 
been held a general election; this was to have been the first general 
election in a country covering an enormous area and a large popula- 
tion. Taking those facts into consideration, I think that those of us 
who were there saw that it was a physical impossibility to have an 
election earlier, always having in mind the need for taking every 
precaution for the regularity of the elections. 

It was just on the eve of the elections for the constituent assemblj' 
that the Bolsheviki accomplished their coup d'etat. They had pre-, 
viously advocated frankly in their papers the overthrow of the pro- 
visional government and the jiassing of all power to the Soviets. 
They were opposed to the idea of coalition, of cooperation between 
the socialists and nonsocialists. or, to use other terminology, be- 
tween the proletariat and the bourgeois elements. Tliey had op- 
posed the proA'isional government on principle, and they had at- 
tacked it specifically for certain policies, and they had advocated 
that the .-oviets take over all political authority. 

In the summer, in the time that I was there, the Bolsheviki did not 
definitely abandon the idea of a constituent assembly. It was some- 
times rather diihcult to reconcile their attacks on the Government for 
postponing the constituent assembly with their other statement that 
all power shoukl pass to the Soviets. It would seem that their idea 
was to play one against the other. By November it was evident that 
they had clecided to play the first point of their program, the taking 
over of all power by the soviet, and that was what their coup d'etat 
implied. The Soviets were to take over forcibly the government and 
organize definitely a dictatorship of the proletariat for the iieriod of 
transition to a new order of society, what they now call a socialistic 
federated soviet republic. 

Senator Overman. Who devised that scheme? Was it Lenine or 
Trotsky, or more intelligent men than either of them ? 

Mr. Harper. That would be difficult to sa}'. The two most out- 
standing intellectual forces, the two deepest thinkers, the two best 
known because of their records, are the two luen Lenine and Trotsky, 
men who have been known in Russian revolutionary circles for a good 
many years. 

Senator Wolcott. Trotsky also? 

Mr. Harper. Trotsky also. He was known as an active and promi- 
nent participant in the revolution of 1905, that was referred to this 
morning, and Lenine was prominent in the revolutionary movement. 
Both of the men, because of conditions in Russia, had lived abroad. 
33oth of them were writers and publicists, had written books, and had 


contributed to — I believe they -were even editors of — newspapers, 
organs representing the views of the Russian socialists. 

The publications of the Russian socialists had to be printed abroad 
during the last 1;) or more years. There had developed from a 
verj' early period in Russian revolutionary movements, from the 
fifties of the last century, what is known as the foreign press of 
Russia, publications in Russian published abroad but intended pri- 
marily for the Russian public, published abroad because of censor- 
ship conditions in Russia, smuggled into Russia by various methods. 
Lenine and Trotslry were prominent participants in this foreign 
literature, and all of them debated and carried on polemics in regard 
to the government. And in the congress of Russian socialist parties 
Lenine and Trotsky were prominent. 

Senator Overman. Did you know Lenine and Trotsky? 

ilr. Harper. I did not know Trotskj- personally. I of course 
know his writings, and I heard him speak on several occasions last 
summer. I did not Imow Lenine personall}'. although of course I 
had known of Lenine and of his name as far back as 1905. 

Senator Overman. Were they peasants? 

Mr. Harper. Xo ; Lenine came from what is generally translated as 
the nobility class. That is hardly a correct translation. That is the 
class that includes the landlord class, but it includes many who are 
not landlords. Perhaps I could bring my point out more clearly by 
saying that a man who gets a university degree is by that very fact 
put into the nobilit}^ class though not hereditary nobility. The fact 
that he was in the nobility class did not mean that Lenine was a land- 
lord or was sympathetic with that class. It meant that he was not a 
peasant. He was not a workman who had grown up from, the peas- 
antry, because a workman, in the modern sense of the word, is a com- 
paratively new phenomenon in Russia. Russia had serfdom until 
1861, and before that there was a very small percentage of free hired 
labor — wage earners. He Avas not a workman, nor a merchant regis- 
tered as one of the merchant guild. He was not an artisan. lie was 
in this other category, the nobility class. 

Maj. HrrMES. Is it not a fact that his occupation during all his 
life has been as an agitator? You have told us what he was not. 
What was he, in other words? 

Mr. Harper. His brother was involved in one of the earlier revo- 
lutionar}' movements, and I know this simply from the accounts of 
Lenine's history. The fact of his brother's past meant that he was 
Avatched particularly when he was a student in the imiversity, and 
was subjected to police surveillance and sujDervision, as a very large 
percentage of the university students at that time participated in 
student demonstrations against the existing form of government; 
sometimes against the very severe regulations with regard to student 
activities and student life. It would seem that from the very start he 
was not only a socialist, but joined in the conspirative organizations 
that existed among the radical element of the Russian educated 
class — among university students particularly. He came to grief 
because of his publication work, his writings, and had to leave. I 
can not give the details. I believe he went to Siberia. Because of 
his revolutionary activities in 1903, he was one of the well-knoAMi 
thinkers and leaders of the Russian social democratic party. He was 


living abroad because conditions in Kussia made it impossible for 
him to reside there. 

Maj. Humes. Let me ask the question in another way. How did 
he make a living? Did he have a competency? 

Mr. Harpee. I presume he made a living as a writer. 

Maj. Humes. That was what I was trying to get at. 

Senator Overman. What is his racial extraction? 

Mr. Harper. He is a Russian ; a Slav. 

Senator Overman. What is Trotsky? 

Mr. Harper. A Russian Jew — of Jewish origin. 

Senator Wolcott. What is this man Tchictherin ? 

Mr. Harper. Tchitcherin, the present commisar of foreign affairs, 
is a Russian Slav, also of the nobility class. 

Senator Wolcott. These three men are all in the nobility class ? 

Mr. Harper. I can not give you the exact past of Trotslcy. Legally 
they were in the nobility class, but that meant simply from our 
point of view that they were men of liberal education ; writers. 

Senator Wolcott. The nobility class, with respect to them, simply 
meant that they were educated ? 

Mr. Harper. Yes. 

Senator Wolcott. What universities were they from ? 

Mr. Harper. I can not tell you. 

Senator Wolcott. Russian universities ? 

Mr. Harper. Yes. 

Maj. Humes. IJ^roceed, Professor. 

Mr. Harper. Shall I proceed on the question of the form of gov- 
ernment ? 

Maj. Humes. Yes. 

Mr. Harper. They established, in November, this proletariat dicta- 
torship under a definite program and tactics, to carry through the 
period of transition for the establishment of the socialist federated 
soviet republic. The theory of this soviet government — the soviet 
form of government, has already been outlined bj^ Dr. Huntington. 
For the period of transition, the bourgeois class was to have no right 
to vote in the election of Soviets, or to be elected to Soviets. Only 
those who labored were to have a vote. That did not exclude intel- 
lectual thinkers, men who were in sympathy with the soviet idea, who 
were ready to cooperate with the idea and lend to the soviet their 
intellectual abilities. They were considered workers, but the consti- 
tution provided definitely that those who derived income from the 
exploitation of the labor of others, or from rents and profits, or in- 
terest, were to be excluded from participation in the elections, and 
were to be excluded also, it was definitely stated, from being elected. 

Now, these Soviets were to be local and central. The country was 
to be .covered with a network of Soviets built up from the smaller 
units. The villages were to elect Soviets and delegates to the dis- 
trict Soviets, which were in turn to send delegates to the Soviets of 
the larger administration district, which was to send delegates to the 
all-Russian congress of Soviets, which was to meet at certain inter- 
vals. The constitution provides that it was to meet at least twice a 
year. I believe since November, 1917, there have been six all-Russian 
congresses which have been convened more frequently because of the 
many problems during the transition period. These all-Russian con- 



gresses of Boviets were to sit for as long as necessary to determine the 
broader lines of policy of legislation on the more important sides of 
public life, political, and economical, but they were not to be a per- 
manent assembly. They were only to be, perhaps, periodically 
convened policy-making bodies, constitution-making bodies. They 
were to elect an executive committee which was to sit permanently 
and act as a kind of permanent parliament, which was in constant 

The executive committee was responsible to the all-Russian con- 
gress, which as I have said was to meet at least twice a year, and 
has, in fact, met more frequently. The executive conmiittee is to 
elect the commissars, or people's commissars, who correspond to the 
heads of the government departments, and the chairman of the 
councils of the people's commissars, who would in our Avestern par- 
lance be called the prime minister of the government. 

The local Soviets were to be allowed considerable freedom in the 
administration of local affairs, but they were to follow in their local 
administration the principles established by the resolutions of the 
all-Russian congress of Soviets. 

Senator OvEiniAN. Did they form a constitution? 

Mr. Hakpee. The thii'd congress drew up certain general resolu- 
tions for their organizations, and the fifth congress definitely voted 
a ccnstitution. I ha\'e not seen that in the original, but I have seen 
translations of that constitution which have .been published in 
America in English. 

That is the theory of the soviet government. The champions of 
that theory point out that it provides for participation in local 
and central affairs of the wcrkers, the peasantry, the workmen, and 
(lio^c who have thrown in their lot with the working class. 

Senator Overman. Is the soviet part of the Bolshevik goveriunent? 
Is it one and the same thing? 

Mr. Habper. In my opinion, it is one and the same thing. Efforts 
have been made to point out that the Bolsheviki are simply a political 
party as opposed to the institution .of the Soviets, and that at the 
present moment they merely have the majority in the local Soviets 
and in the central Soviets. The parallel is often drawn that the Soviets 
are like a parliament of a western country, while the Bolsheviki are 
simply the majority party in that parliament. But inasmuch as the 
idea of turning over to the Soviets, all power of organizing the coun- 
try on this soviet basis is the Bolshevik idea, opposing the idea of 
the other socialists' pai-ties, and, of course, of the bourgeois parties. 
In actual fact I do not see what distinction can be made between 
the Bolsheviki and the Soviets. In July of last year, or June, dur- 
ing the summer, we had in our American newspapers a report that 
the Bolsheviki had definitely by decree expelled from the Soviets, 
from the central soviet or executive committee, and had issued an 
order of expulsion from the local Soviets, of all the social democratic 
Mensheviki and the right social revolutionaries. I have not seen a 
Eussian paper describing this fact in detail, though I have seen in 
one of the Russian papers published in this country a summary of 
the account of the meeting at which that decision was made, and I 
accepted the statements of those persons that have come out and the 


statements in this paper, as supporting the cable news that we had 
on that point. 

I state again that the Bolsheviki definitely expelled from the soviet, 
from the executive committee of the soviet, and ordered the expulsion 
from their local Soviets, of the right social revolutionaries and of 
the Mensheviki social democrats, the pretext for the expulsion being 
that the two groups were counter-revolutionists and were working 
against the Soviets, and their presence therefore could not be toler- 
ated. In fact, they were counter to a revolution of the Bolshevist 
brand, not the revolution of March, 1917. One of the general facts 
that we can accept is that the right social revolutionaries and the 
Mensheviki have refused to go in with the Bolsheviki, and have 
opposed them, and in view of the expulsion of these members, because 
of their opposition to the program of the Bolsheviki and the use that 
the Bolsheviki have made of the Soviets, or the way in which they 
have worked out the soviet form of government, it seems to me that 
one can not make a distinction between the Soviets and the Bolsheviki. 

Maj. Httmes. Well, doctor j can you outline from your study of the 
situation an authoritative opmion on the effect of the practical appli- 
cation of the Bolshevik government to the life of Russia ? 

Mr. Harper. I left Eussia, as I said, in September, 1917, before 
the Bolsheviki came into power. Inasmuch as Russian political in- 
stitutions is my subject, I have followed with the greatest care the 
reports that have come out, either in our daily press, in the cable 
reports, or in articles contributed to our press by men who have come 
out from Russia. I have made it a point to talk with a great many of 
our Americans who have come out of Russia or neutrals who have 
come from Russia, and with Russians who have come out. 

There have been two definite sets of statements with regard to what 
one might call the fruits of Bolshevism. I tried to study as carefully 
as possible those reports and, as I say, check up one statement against 
the other. There are these two sets of statements. In a general way 
one group says that the experiment is a great success ; a success in the 
sense that it has the support of the workmen and peasants ; a success 
in the sense that it is solving the economic problems of the country. 
Those that make these statements admit the great difficulty of the first 
months when there was the disorder, disorganization; a great deal 
of it not made by the Bolsheviki, but the accumulation of a great 
many decades of shortsighted policy of the old regime; a good deal 
of it a result of the war burdens ; a good deal of it the inevitable re- 
sult of the revolution of March, 1917. 

As I say, the champions of the success of the experiment admit 
these difficulties, but insist that the Bolsheviki, largely through the 
support of the workmen and peasants, are solving these problems 
and are going to be able to start in, if they have not already done so, 
on constructive work. 

The other set of statements gives a quite different picture. It 
points out the increase in the economic disruption of the country, 
and points out the failure of the efforts of the Bolsheviki leaders 
to introduce constructive policies. The other set of statements points 
out the beginning of the definite disillusionment of the masses of 
workmen and peasants with this program that was to bring them 
to the promised land, peace, and bread. 
S572.'?— 19 7 


As I say, naturally, I have been confused by these two conflicting 
reports, and have had to weigh the one against the other, taking into 
account the number that brought out one set of statements and the 
number that brought out the other. 

Senator Wolcott. That is the only thing you have taken into 
account, the number? 

Mr. Harper. Because of the wider field of observation. 

Senator Wolcott. And the character of the witness? 

Mr. Harper. I took into account the bias. If it was a business 
man, I took that into account. If it was a man who had been in- 
terested in radical movements, I recognized clearly that there was 
a spiritual background to the revolution and a very definite back- 
ground to the revolution of March, 1917, that appealed not only to 
the radical but appealed to the liberal. 

So I took into account that, and took into account of course my 
own knowledge of the earlier conditions of Russia and what I had 
seen up to September, 1917; and without hesitation, as a student, 
I have come to accept the statements that, first, the economic con- 
ditions in Eussia have become insuperably worse ; that the workmen 
and peasants are suffering as a result of the further economic disrup- 
tion of the country; that it is not simply the bourgeois that have 
paid the cost of what I have considered an experiment, but that it 
is the workmen and peasants that are paying that cost, and that they 
are beginning to see that, though this Bolshevik program sounded 
good, it has not proven good, and they are becoming disillusioned as 
to the soviet and the Bolsheviki. 

Senator Overman. What proportion of the Russian population do 
you think is behind this Bolshevik movement? 

Mr. PIarper. In percentages it is rather difficult to say, for the 
total population. Now that the peasants have received more land, 
I do not think they are back of the Bolshevik movement, the 
political program, because it has not brought order or economic de- 
velopment. I have had from a great many people the statement that 
the peasants have definitely in certain districts kicked out the 
Soviets, even the peasants in those districts that are in the area 
controlled from a military point of view by the Bolshevik or cen- 
tral Soviet; that they have kicked out the soviet because they did 
not like the way it ran things. There was too much graft. And the 
peasants have gone back to their former system of an elected elder. 
The resentment of the peasants toward the Bolsheviki is of a more 
definite character in those districts where the red guards have gone 
to the peasant villages to seize the grain. I should sa,j, on the basis 
of the information that has come to me, which I have gone over very 
carefully, that the larger percentage of the peasantry has gone 
against the Bolsheviki. The Bolsheviki recognized that the peasants 
were interested first of all in land, and in their previous discussions 
of how they would act if an opportune moment came, they definitely 
stated that there would be this peasant antagonism toward their pro- 
letarian dictatorship, but they definitely said that that antagonism 
would be allayed by the turning over of the land, and they also had 
the definite idea of stirring up in each village a class war between 
the more prosperous elements of the village and the poorer elements 
of the village. In the first decrees of the Bolshevik government they 


never used tlie words " Government of the workmen." They used the 
expression, " The workmen and the poor peasants." They made a 
distinction between the more prosperous peasants of the community 
and the poorer peasants, men who perhaps have no land of their own 
because they had been unfortunate and were at the bottom of the 
economic scale in that particular community. 

Senator Overman. We are trying to get what is going on in this 
country. Do you Icnow anything of Bolshevism in this cormtry — any 
movement in this counti'y for Bolshevism? 

ilr. Harper. May I define Bolshevism for myself? 

Senator Overman. I would like to have it for myself. 

Mr. Harper. As I have read the accounts with regard to Russia, and 
talked with those who have come out, and heard speeches in regai'd 
to Eussia by those who have come out, or read the discussion of the 
Russian problem, this word " Bolshevism " has been used, in my be- 
lief, to represent two distinct things. It has been used frequent^ to 
mean a state of mind. I know before the Bolsheviki came'into power 
in Russia, when the Bolsheviki were agitating in September, 1917, I 
often heard the expression " The country is going Bolshevist. There 
is a great deal of Bolshevism in this country?' 

Senator Wolcott. Speaking of this country? 

Mr. Harper. No; Russia. There was confusion of mind as to 
how to solve the many problems. And I now read in our papers 
with regard to America, about the spread of Bolshevism in the 
United States. As I have discussed such a point where it has been 
made, I find that they speak simply of confusion of mind as to 
just liow we are going to solve the problems before us, problems of 
our own. prnblcns with regard to the reconstruction, laroblems with 
regard to the settlement of the war. In that sense I believe there is 
a gi-eat deal of Bolshevism in the Ignited States. 

Senator Wolcott. I want to say that I never' heard it used in 
that sense, simply to express the idea that we do not clearly see our 
future ancl how we shall solve the problems of the country. 

Senator Overman. Why not look at it from the way we have been 
treating it, the idea of overthrow of all the governments of the 
world: not only the United States but other governments of the 
world; chaos? 

Mr. Harper. I have not heard, myself, any preaching of the doc- 
trine of the Bolsheviki, the overthrow of the Government in Amer- 
ica, as I heard it frankly preached by word of mouth and in the 
press in Russia. I have read in their papers that the experiment in 
Russia has been very successful and has been of the greatest interest 
and the greatest value. 

Senator Overman. What do you think about it? 

Senator Wolcott. About the success of the experiment? 

Mr. Harper. I consider that it has been a failure from the point 
of view of the peasant and the workman ; that it has not brought 

Senator Wolcott. It has also been a failure from the point of 
view of national obligation — performing a national duty — has it not ? 

Mr. Harper. It meant, of course, the withdrawal of Russia from 
the war, because it was clear to such leaders as Kerensky that one 
could not carry on the foreign war and an internal class war at the 
same time. That was why Kerensky, for example, stood for the 


principle of coalition government on principle; not simply be- 
cause of the existing conditions, but on the principle of cooperation 
of the groups of the population. Now, the declaring of a class war 
and the putting into practice of the principle of class warfare in- 
evitably would lead to the withdrawal of Russia from participation 
in ithe war in which Russia was then a participant. 

Senator Overman. Doctor, we have what we call nihilists, anar- 
chists, I. W. W.'s, socialists, and Bolsheviki in this country. You 
have heard of those things. As a student and as a thinker, do you 
see any relation between those five organizations? 

Mr. Haepee. Nihilists is a name that has been used in a very loose 
way to apply to all Russian revolutionists. There were in Russia 
in the sixties, the last century, a group that were called by another 
person, by a writer, nihilists. They never accepted the name, but 
they were called by their opponents nihilists. 

Senator Oveeman. Did not the Bolshevists come from the nihil- 

j\Ir. Harper. There is the element of nihilism in the Bolshe^dki. 
The nihilists about 1860 were the people that had gone through the 
most oppressi^'e regime in recent times, the police regime of Nicholas 
I, which had created in the younger generation the spirit of pro- 
test. The Russian writer, Turgenev, spoke of them as " the Nihil- 
ists." They represented this protest against the conditions of the 
previous regime, of the previous reign. It was one of the most A'io- 
lent of the protests, but it was in its first stage an intellectual move- 
ment, a mental protest. It was only later that it developed into a 
political movement, and many of those who were in the student or- 
ganizations which were called by Turgenev " nihilists " later became 
members of frankly revolutionary political organizations, such as the 
land and liberty. There was a series of political parties, revolution- 
ary parties, with different programs, from 1860 on. 

Senator Overman. Is not that all developed in the Bolsheviki, the 
protest and this fight for the majority, a fight against those that have, 
to give to those that have not? 

Mr. Haeper. There is this element of protest in Bolshevism; a 
protest against the existing order, the injustice of the existing order. 

Senator Oveeman. Is not that so with tha I. W. W. ? 

Mr. Haepee. Yes. 

Senator Oveeman. Is it not so with the socialists? 

Mr. Haepee. A protest against the injustice of the existing order. 

Senator Oveejian. So, then, there is a relationship between all five 
of them, and most of them have the same flag? 

jMr. Haepee. They have the same red flag, but they differ as to 
program and as to tactics. 

Senator Overman. They differ as to many things, but in basic 
principles are they not the same? 

ilr. Haepee. They represent a protest against what they consider 
the injustices of the present organization of society. Some of them 
go so far as to say that the present form of the organization of so- 
ciety can not be corrected, and must be overthrown and replaced by 

Senator Oveeman. The uniting of those five great organizations 
under the red flag in this country — do you consider it a menace ? 


Mr. Harper. I think the fact that they use the red flag does not 
imply any actual unity. Many men are socialists who are not Bol- 
sheriki. The Bolsheviki say that a great many socialists are not true 

Senator Overman. You are a student and a thinker. What is the 
reason that they all have this red flag? 

Mr. Harper. The fii'st of the protests of this general character 
came in the early half of the last century. They used the red flag. 1 
think it is little more than a tradition, and I have always looked upon 
the red flag as not the emblem of the Bolsheviki, the emblem of the 
socialists, the emblem of the I. W. W., but as representing this men- 
tal protest. 

Senator O'verman. Does it not all at last come down to the idea of 
revolution ? 

Mr. Harper. The word " revolution " is used with a great many 
qualifying adjectives, which are sometimes used to express ideas 
which it usually fails very carefully to express. We have industrial 
revolutions, political revolutions, and mental revolutions. 

Senator Overman. Revolution against the Government; of course 
that would mean industrial revolution. 

Mr. Harper. Revolution in the sense of overthrow of the existing 
form of government? 

Senator Overman. Yes. 

Mr. Harper. I do not think that can be said. Many men' call them- 
selves socialists and recognize the red flag as the flag of socialism, 
which will represent an effort to bring about changes of an economic 
and sometimes purely political character within the existing political 

Senator Overman. What is the I. W. W. ? What is their idea ? 

Mr. Harper. As far as I know, the program of the I. W. W. is to 
attempt by direct action to bring pressure upon the existing authori- 
ties for changes, but within the existing political system. I have not 
read I. W. W. literature definitely advocating the overthrow of the 
existing political order. 

Senator Over:.ian. So that you think that there is no connection 
between them by reason of the fact that they have this red flag, which 
actually means a menace; no connection because they use a common 


Mr. Harper. I think there is no connection. With regard to Rus- 
sia I can say quite definitely that there are definite differences of 
program and tactics. 

Senator Overman. You do not think that there is much harm being- 
done by the Bolshevists in Russia ?_ 

Mr. Harper. I do think there is an enormous amount of harm, 
being done in Russia. But I consider that that experiment, this 
venture tried on Russia, exhausted by the first three years of the 
war, has cost the Russian people in wealth, in property, in values^ 
I should say, and in lives, enormously. 

Senator Overman. Have you been over there to observe the condi- 
tions of the prosperous ? 

Mr. Harper. I have not been in Russia since September, 1917. 

Ma'j. Humes. Doctor, are you familiar with any of the representa- 
tions that are being made in this country by the Bolsheviki, as to> 

102 BOLSHEVIK ±-±iu±-AViAiNUA. 

whether or not they are true? In other words, is there a tendency 

or an elioit on the part of boino agitatoro to inisrcprcsoiit the veal 
facts, in tlioir literature or in their publications I 

Mr. Harpek. It seoius to me that a general atatenient without luiy 
background, ■without any filling in of detailed facts, that the Bol-lu>- 
vik experinieiit hay lx»en a successful experiment, or if not entirely 
successful, is a hopeful experiment, is not a true picture of what has 
been going on in Russia since the Bolsheviki came into power. Ore 
gets that very general statement that it is a hopeful experiment, and 
one gets the more specific statement that it has been a suc.essful ex-- 
periment. developing that general idea by describing the election of 
the Soviets, and not paying any attention to the statements that have 
been published by Americans who have come out, by neutrals who 
have come out, by Eussians, as to the methods used by the Bolsheviki 
to control the elections. 

Senator "Wolcott. And you say ynu do not agree with those state- 
ments ? 

Mr. Haeper. I do not agree with those statements on that basis. 
In other words, I accept the other set of statements. It has been 
very difficult to decide between those two sets of statements. As I 
have said, it was my special study, and I have devoted my time and 
what intelligence I have to the verification back and forth. I give 
it as my personal opinion, based on a careful study, that the set of 
statements with regard to the Bolshevik experiment, the set of st;ite- 
ments that describe it as having cost the country enormously in 
values, in lives, the set of statements that state that at last the 
workmen and peasants have become disillusioned, and are opposed 
to the soviet regime and the Bolshevik regime, that set of facts is the 
one that I have accepted. Of course, we have had misstatements back 
and forth. We have had a good niany exaggerated statements from 
Russia, ' arried on our cables to the newspapers. We have had exag- 
gerated statements or misstatements from both sides — from both 

Senator OxT.nMx^. You do not think we are getting the truth 
abou', Russia? 

ilr. Harper. It is difficult, of course, in view of the chaos, to get 
jdl the facts. 

Senator Wolcott. Is there not one fact upon which they all agree, 
that the Bolshevists have seized and confiscated property of indi- 
viduals and have taken it over from the people, and run on a career 
of theft and robbery ? 

Mr. Harper. According to our conceptions here in this country, on 
that point there is no difference of opinion. There is difference of 
opinion as to the extent of the terrorism. 

Senator Wolcott. Then, can there be any doubt in your mind that 
that thing is an abominable failure, that it is a program of con- 

Mr. Harper. When I speak of it as a failure, I qualify it to this 
extent : That it has proven itself a failure for the Russian workmen 
and the Russian peasants. 

Senator Overman. You do not agree with the teachings of Lenine 
and Trotsky, do you? 

Mr. Haeper. I do not. 


Maj. Humes. Professor, you are familiar somewhat with political 
parties and groups in Russia. What proportion of the Eussian 
socialist movement do the Bolshevists represent? 

Mr. Haepee. In June of 1917, in the first all-Russian congress, the 
Bolsheviki were polling about 20 to 25 per cent, on certain occasions ; 
on other occasions, less. That was in the all-Russian congress of 
Soviets. In the Petrograd soviet, which was composed of the work- 
riien of Petrograd and the garrison soldiers of Petrograd, the Bol- 
sheviki had a majority. In Moscow the Bolsheviki were strong — 
in the Moscow soviet. We have, then, certain votes on which to base 
an estimate of the strength of the Bolsheviki as a party. The elec- 
tion returns of the constituent assembly as a result of the elections 
held during November, when the Bolsheviki were in power, would 
indicate that the majority were against the Bolsheviki. 

Maj. Humes. Now, Professor, we hear of persons who are advo- 
cating Bolshevism in this country, or the recognition of the Bolshe- 
vist government in this country, insisting upon even a greater free- 
dom of press and freedom of speech in this country than we now 
have. Do they, in their form of government, recognize the right of 
freedom of the press and freedom of speech, or is it their policy to 
deprive individuals of any of their rights that may be used to inter- 
fere with their particular form of government and its activities ? 

Mr. Haepee. They definitely state in their constitution that during 
the period of transition they must protect themselves against those 
whom they have thrown out, and that they can not allow the use of 
freedom of the press. During the first weeks after the Bolshevik coup 
d'etat a great many bourgeois papers continued to come out — ^a great 
many non-Bolshevik and nonsocialist papers continued to come out. 
I was able to get hold of many copies of papers published in Novem- 
ber, 1917, in which the non-Bolshevist socialists attacked the Bol- 
sheviki and spoke of them as adventurers and as traitors, so that 
during these first months the non-Bolsheviki could express their 
opinion. But my interpretation of that fact was that during those 
first months the Bolsheviki did not have time or did not feel secure 
enough to suppress freedom of the press. But now in no case, accord- 
ing to the constitution, do they allow the publication of non-Bolshevik 

Senator Ovekmax. You think they were justified in that, do you 


Mr. Haepee. No, sir. 

Maj. Humes. Then they are advocating free speech and free press 
in this country, but are not permitting it in their own country. That 
is the first proposition that we can accept, is it not ? 

Mr. Haepee. They complain that they are not getting an oppor- 
tunity to present the facts of the situation to the American people. _ 

Senator Wolcott. They complain more than that. I read an arti- 
cle in one of the Washington papers the other night, in which a man 
was complaining that the criticism of this meeting that was held in 
Poll's Theater Sunday night, I believe a week ago, was_a suppres- 
sion of free speech ; that the very fact that they were criticized for 
expressing their views constituted a .suppression of their constitu- 
tional right. 

Mr. Haeper. I do not follow the reasoning. 


Senator Wolcott. I do not follow the reasoning, either. I think 
it is nonsense. I am telling you what they claim. They claim more 
than you stated a moment ago. If there is anybody on earth who 
ought to stand abuse and criticism, it is that crowd. 

Mr. Harper. The complaint that I have read is, first that the capi- 
talistic press does not publish certain facts, certain statements in 
regard to what is going on in Eussia, that come into their hands, and 
that they publish without proper discrimination all sorts of reports 
coming from all sorts of sources which are gross exaggerations, as 
proven by later developments. 

I think perhaps that there is no question that we have had in the 
American press a good many misstatements with regard to Russia. 
Just for an illustration that came to my attention, it was called to 
my attention recently that a well known Eussian revolutionary 
leader, Catherine Breshkovskaya, called, popularly, " The Grand- 
mother of the Eussian Eevolution," was reported either killed or as 
having died in prison several times in the course of the last year. 
The other side also reported with regard to Catherine Breshkovskaya, 
insisting that we were not getting the truth about Eussia. They 
insisted that the press was simply sending these reports that Cath- 
erine Breshkovskaya had been killed, in order to stir up antagonism 
to the Bolsheviki. In an article written in a publication called " One 
Year of Eevolution," printed in November, 1918, this other state- 
ment is given, what the writer, Mr. Nuorteva, claims is the true state- 
ment with regard to Catherine Breshkovskaya. [Eeading:] 

Catherine Breshkovskaya has never been imprisoned by the Soviets. When 
she died, — not of privation, but of old age, — the soviet government, although 
she was its opponent on many questions of tactics and principles, gave her a 
public funeral and hundreds of thousands of Moscow workers, members of the 
soviet, turned out to pay their respects to " The Grandmother of the Russian 

Senator Wolcott. Neither one of them is right. 

Mr. Harper. I believe Catherine Breshkovskaya is coming to 
Washington. I had several hours' talk with her in Chicago the 
other day. 

Senator "Wolcott. One said that she was killed, and the other said 
she was given a respectable funeral by the Soviets, and both are 

Mr. Harper. But on the question of the use of terrorism, and on 
the question of the confiscation of the property of the bourgeois, 
there is no difference. There is no difference of opinion between these 
two groups. 

Senator Wolcott. No ; that is fundamental, of course. 

Mr. Harper. One group will say that it is not against the taldng 
over of property, and admit that there was a certain amount of ir- 
regularity which we can characterize as looting ; and the other set of 
statements, in covering this question of the confiscation of property, 
says that it was irregular, mere seizure, mere legalized loot, and that 
in many cases it was the bribe tliat gained temporary support for the 
bolshevist program by workmen groups, peasant groups, and some 
soldier groups. 

Maj. Humes. To summarize for a minute, professor, as I under- 
stand it from your outline of the present regime, we can gather this 
conclusion : That in order to maintain themselves they are conducting 


a reign of terrorism, keeping people in fear ; secondly, they are de- 
priving people of the right of the press and the right of free speech, 
and preventing them from getting information as to what is ac- 
tually going on; thirdly, they provide for a compulsory military 
service for their purposes ; they provide force for the disarmament of 
everyone that is not in sympathy with their cause and does not belong 
to the particular element with which they are affiliated, and of which 
they are a part. Then to establish their control further in elections, 
they have limited the right of suffrage as to the persons who have 
been grouped, so as to prevent their overthrow in a popular election, 
by way of disfranchisment, have they not? 

Mr. Harper. Up to the last statement, the last point, every point is 
supported by their own decrees or by provisions in their constitution. 

Maj. Htjmes. The last statement is that they have, in order to make 
it possible to control elections, disfranchised a considerable element 
of the population. 

Mr. Harper. By law they have disfranchised, of course, the bour- 

Maj . Humes. Is that all ? I call your attention to this provision of 
their constitution; if this is not disfranchisement I would like to 
know what it is : 

" The following persons, even if they should belong to any of the above-men- 
tioned categories, may neither elect nor be elected : 
" a. Persons using hired labor for the sake of profit." 

That would include anyone that had anyone in their employ for the 
purpose of conducting a business, as a merchant who had a clerk in 
his employ. 

Mr. Harper. He would be a bourgeois. 

Maj. Humes. And the person who had a domestic would also be 
deprived of the right of suffrage under that provision. 

Mr. Harper. He is getting profit from the work of that individual. 

Maj. Humes. Wherever help is necessary to conduct a business, it 
contributes to the profit, does it not ? And those people are 

Mr. Harper. Those would be the bourgeois classes. 

Maj. Humes (reading) : 

" Persons living on unearned increments such as : interest on capital, income 
from industrial enterprises and property." 

Now, everyone that has an unearned income is disfranchised? 
Mr. Harper. Yes ; that is what they call the bourgeois class. 
Maj. Humes (reading) : 

"Private traders, trading and commercial agents;" 

Whom does that include? That would include all persons engaged 
in any undertakings as the representatives of individual concerns, 
would it not? The salesmen class would be included in that, would 
they not ? 

Mr. Harper. Yes. 

Maj. Humes. Would not merchants be included? 

Mr. Harper. Certainly. 

Maj. Humes. All merchants are traders? 

Mr. Harper. That is directed against them. 

Maj. Humes (reading) : 

" Monks and ecclesiastical servants of churches and religious euUs." 


^Ir. Hakpee. Yes; it is directed against them. 

Maj. Humes. Well, then, the disfranchised include that element 
of the population. It also includes the disfranchisement of clergy- 
men and persons in the service of the church, does it not? 

Mr. Harper. Yes. 

Maj. HtJMES. It includes clei'gymen. Why? 

Mr. Harper. I do not know just why they do. 

Maj. Humes. They would not be comprised in the term "ser- 
vants ■" ? 

Mr. Hari^er. I have never seen any of their statements with regard 
to the clergy except that clause Avhich you have read, in the accounts 
with regard to Russia, and I do not know what reasons they give for 

Maj. HuJiES. I do not care about the reasons. We are talking 
about the application of this thing and just what they are doing. 
That includes the clergymen and the priests in the service of the 
church. That would include even the janitor, under that class that 
the constitution here disfranchises, would it not? We have all that 
class eliminated from the Government? 

Mr. Harper. As to the question of the janitor, if the house has been 
taken over by the State, or by the local soviet, then the janitor be- 
comes an employee of the Slate. 

Maj. HuJiEs. We will disregard that. 

Senator Wolcott. Let the janitor vote. 

jMaj. Humes. Yes; we will let him vote. 

Senator Overman. He is about the only man that can vote, so far. 

Maj. HuTNiES (reading) : 

" Employee.'! and agents of the former police, of the special corps of gen- 
darmes and of branches of secret police departments, and also members of the 
former reigning houst^ of Kussia." 

Of course that relates to those that were connected with the mo- 
narchical form of government^ 

Mr. Harper. It says " members of the secret police and of the 
ruling house." That would not exclude necessarily, on that ground, 
the landlord. 

Maj. Humes. But as the landlord was receiving an income from 
property, that would exclude him. Then, Mr. Harper, it is a fact, 
is it not, that under the Soviet Eepublic, instead of giving universal 
suffrage as is proclaimed from the platform by many advocates 
of bolshevism, and b_v many newspapers that are supporting bol- 
shevism, instead of creating uniA'ersal suffrage, instead of according 
universal suffrage to persons over 18 years of age, men and women 
alike, a very large percentage of the population is disfranchised, 
is it not? 

Mr. Harper. They do not, in the first place 

Maj. Humes. Just answer the question. 

Mr. Harper. A very large percentage. 

Maj. Humes. Now, what percentage? 

Mr. Harper. I should say that theoretically, according to this 

Maj. Humes. It is not theoretical, it is practical. It is the consti- 


Mr. Harper. That would exclude at least 10 per cent. It would 
not exclude — the difficulty in answering that question is because of 
the status ol' the peasants after this nationalization of the land. If 
a peasant, as was said this morning, had bought and owned land 

Maj. Humes. How many peasants can operate any quantity of 
land without having hired help ? 

Mr. Harper. Very few. 
, Maj. Humes. Then if they have hired help they are excluded 
because of that fact, so that would exclude all the peasants that had 
any considerable amount of land under cultivation. 

Mr. Harper. That would exclude at least 10 per cent of the pop- 
ulation, but it would not exclude more than 20 per cent of the popu- 
lation. That is to say, after this exclusion, 80 per cent of the popula- 
tion would have the right to vote. 

Senator Overman. What class would be allowed to vote? 

Mr. Harper. The peasants, the workmen, and those of the edu- 
cated class who were not tillers of the soil or workmen in the fac- 
tories but who had thrown in their lot with the workmen and the 

Maj. Humes. But how could a man in that class live unless he 
had some income from interests or investments, or something of that 

Senator M^olcott. As soon as he gets in that class he is disfran^ 
chisecl. In other words, is a man disfranchised who accumulates 
enough property to get an education for himself: is he at once dis- 
franchised by virtue of the other clauses of the constitution? 

Mr. Harper. Of course, they have contended 

Senator Wolcott. Is not that the practical application of it ? 

Mr. Harper. They contend that as thej^ work out the system- 

Senator Wolcott. I am not asking what they contend. I am ask- 
ing what the facts are. 

Mr. Harper. They have given up their property and have become 
-\\ orkers, and are therefore eligible to vote and eligible to election. 

Senator Overman. It is a pretty good constitution, you think, do 
you not? 

Mr. Harper. No. 

Senator Wolcott. Now that industries are paralyzed, where are 
those people working? There is no work, and where are they work- 

Mr. Harper. That question I have often asked myself and have 
put to a great many men with whom I have talked. How does the 
country go on ? You know that the industries are not working, that 
the means of transportation are breaking clown. The answer was 
that there are accumulated goods, shelter and food on which the 
industrial and urban populations still manage to exist. The peasants 
have sufficient food of certain kinds. The peasants before the indus- 
trial changes in Russia often supplied many of their needs, and manu- 
factured articles through their household industries, and those in- 
dustries are being developed so that the peasant does manage some 
way or another to get enough cloth, and to hammer out enough iron 
to put ends on his wooden plows, and the country is continuing to 
exist, it is my opinion, on the accumulated goods, manufactured 
goocls, and (On the f oad and shelter that is accumulated. 


Senator Overman. It is a great country over there. 

jMr. Harper. I have had statements from several men who left 
there as late as October who said that in view of the conditions that 
they saw in the cities, they do not believe that those urban centers 
will be able to avoid literal famines and epidemics during these win- 
ter months. Now, as to the extent of these famines and epidemics 
in the last months we do not know, because our reports from Eus- 
sia, particularly in the last month, have been very inadequate. , 

(Thereupon, at 5.45 o'clock p. m., the subcommittee ad]'ourned until 
to-morrow, Wednesday, February 12, 1919, at 10..30 o'clock a. m.) 

(The following was subsequently ordered inserted here in this 
record, having been handed in too late for inclusion in the hearings 
under Senate resolution 307:) 

JIayoe Thompson's Pledge to United Societies. 

expression op views by candidate for public office to the united societies 
fob local self-govern itent. 

The undersigned respectfully represents that he is a candidate for the office 
Of Mayor on the Republican Ticket of the City of Chicago at the election to be 
held, Tuesday April 6th, A. D. 1915. 

That he favors and will promote in every way the objects for which the 
United Societies for Local Si^lf-Government ^vere organized ; namely : Personal 
Liberty, Home Rule, and Equal Taxation. 

That he believes every citizen should be protected in the full enjoyment of 
all the personal rights and liberties guaranteed him by the Constitution of the 
United States and the State of Illinois. 

And, that if elected Mayor of the City of Chicago, he will use all honorable 
means to promote such objects : 

1 : That he will oppose all laws known as " Blue Laws " and that he espe- 
cially declares that he is opposed to a closed Sunday, believing that the State 
Law referring to Sunday closing is obsolete and should not be enforced by the 
City Administration. And that he is opposed to all ordinances tending to cur- 
tail the citizens of Chicago in the enjoyment of their liberties on the weekly 
day of rest. 

2 : That he is in favor of " Special Bar Permits " until three o'clock A. M., 
being issued by the City of Chicago to reputable societies or organizations for 
the purpose of permitting such societies to hold their customary entertainments. 

3 : That as mayor he will use his veto power to prevent the enactment of any 
ordinance which aims at the abridgment of the rights of personal liberty or is 
intended to repeal any liberal ordinance now enacted, especially one repealing 
or amending the " Special Bar Permit " ordinance now in force. 

4: That he will oppose the further extension of the Prohibition Territory 
within the City Limits, unless such extension is demanded by a majority of the 
residents in a district in which, at least, two-thirds of the building lots arc 
improved with dwelling houses. 

5 : That he is unalterably opposed to having the Anti-Saloon Territory Law 
extended to the City of Chicago. 

6: I hereby declare, that I have not signed the pledge of the Anti-Saloon 
League, any other so-called " Reform-Organization " and have not given any 
pledge to any newspaper. 

Chicago, March — A. D. 1915. 

(Name) Wm. Hale Thompson, 

(Address) 3200 Sheridan Rd. 

Received and placed on file, iNIurch 20th, 1915. 

Aman Beennan, 
Se<yretary of the United Societies for Local 

Self-Government and the Liberty League. 



United States Senate, 
stnbcommittee of the committee on the judiciary, 

Washington, D. C. 
The subcdmniittee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10.45 o'clock 
a. m. in room 226, Senate Office Building, Senator Lee S. Overman 

Present: Senators Overman (chairman), King, Wolcott, Nelson, 
and Sterling. 

Senator Oveesian. Maj. Humes, whom do you desire the commit- 
tee to hear this morning ? 

Maj. Humes. We would like the committee to hear Mr. Simons. 


(The witness was sworn by the chairman.) 

Maj. Humes. Doctor, where do you reside? 

Mr. Simons. At the present time, in the parsonage of the Washing- 
ton Square Methodist Episcopal Church, 121 West Fortieth Street, 
New York City, of which church I am pastor. 

Maj. Humes. When did you return from Russia? 

Mr. Simons. On October 6, 1918. 

Maj. Humes. In what work were you engaged in Russia? 

Mr. Simons. As superintendent of the Methodist Episcopal Church 
in Petrograd, Russia. 

Maj. Humes. For how long a period of time had you been in 
Russia ? 

Mr. Simons. Since the fall of 1907. 

Maj. Humes. Now, Doctor, this committee desires to secure infor- 
mation with reference to conditions in Russia and the practical op- 
eration of the existing government in Russia. If you would prefer 
in your own way to go ahead and make a statement of those facts, you 
may proceed in that way. 

Mr. Si3roNS. I think you better ask me some of the main questions 
in your mind, and then, as I find that there are things necessary to be 
'elaborated, I will give you whatever data I have at my disposal. 

M'aj. Humes. Well, JDoctor, were you in Petrograd at the time of 
the March revolution ? 

Mrr Simons. I was. 

Maj. HuJiES. What was the nature of the revolution? Was it a 
socialistic revolution? 

Mr. Simons. You are referring to the 

Maj. Humes. The so-called Kerensky revolution. 

Mr. Simons. That is, of the winter of 1917? 

Mai. Humes. Yes. 


Mr. Simons. I received the impression that it was partly socialistic. 
It started with large parades of workingmen clamoring for bread 
when most of them were getting not only sufficient bread but more 
than enough, and the object of all that, so most of us understood, ^Yas 
to bring on a revolution. Of course, Rasputin had been already put 
out of the way. 

Senator Wolcott. By the way, he was a monk, was he not ? 

Mr. Simons. Yes ; a very illiterate man ; uncouth ; rough. 

Senator Wolcott. Was he supposed to be a German agent ? 

Mr. Simons. We have had all kinds of statements about Easpiitin 
having been a pro-German, and the Czarina being pro-German. I 
have no direct evidence, but the people that claimed that both the 
Czarina and Rasputin were pro-German are well qualified to stand 
as truth-loving persons. Some of them are well-known editors; and 
some of the finest people that I have become acquainted with in Rus- 
sia maintained that the Czarina and Rasputin both were pro-German. 

Senator Xelson. "Were you then at Petrograd when he was killed? 

Mr. SiJioxs. I was. 

Senator Xelson. As I understand it, he was inveigled to the house 
of a certain member of the royal family, a prince somebody — I can 
not think of his name — and there he was killed. 

ilr. Simons. Yes; certain members of the Russian nobility assassi- 
nated him. 

Senator Xelson. The man to whose house he was inveigled and 
killed was connected either by blood or marriage with the royal 
family, as I understand it. 

Mr. Simons. Yes. 

Maj. Humes. Well, Doctor, after this re\olution was successful, 
what was the condition in Russia up to the time of the November 
revolution ? 

Mr. Simons. Under the provisional government it was quite ap- 
parent that different political groups were working with might 
and main to get the upper hand, and they had, roughly speaking, 
over 20 different political groups. I have a document which came 
out at the time of the Bolsheviki revolution, showing the program 
of the various parties. I had it translated and copies of the transla- 
tion given to our embassy in Petrograd, and also our consulate, and 
one copy was sent, I think, to the Department of State in Washing- 
ton, as I recollect. Very near the end of this list of groups we found 
the Bolsheviki, as they call them. I have the thing here, and have 
gone through it, and it simply bears out the statement which has 
been made in many books on Russia and the Russians, that when 
you have a thousand Russians the chances are that you M-ill have at 
least one hundred different groups among these Russians. 

I have spoken with people who have traveled widely in Russia, 
even in religious circles, and they say it is very amusing that ifi one 
village of a thousand people. Baptists Sectanti, they have not less 
than twelve different Baptist groups. It is a peculiarity r>i the 
Russian mind and psychology, and it is my contention that if there 
had not been such a large number of political parties Kerensky might 
have won the day with a provisional government. 

Soon after we noticed a pro-German current quite marked 

Senator Wolcott. Soon after when? 


^Ir. Simons. After the great revolution of the winter of 1917. 

Senator Wolcott. In March? 

Mr. Simons. Let us say it made itself felt within two months. I 
can not tell you just when Trotsky and Lenine came in. I have no 
data here. 

Senator Wolcott. You speak of the revolution of the winter of 
1917. We had it referred to yesterday as of March, 1917. Is that 
what YOU mean by the winter of 1917, along about March? 

Mr. Simons. Yes. 

Senator Wolcott. I did not want any confusion in the time. 

Mr. Si3ioNS. They had the old calendar system there, which is 13 
days behind ourg. 

Senator Nelson. It culminated in March? 

Mr. SiMoxs. Yes; the new style, I should say. We then soon 
noticed that whereas at the beginning of the- so-called new regime 
there was a disposition to glorify the allies and to make a great deal 
of what the French Revolution had stood for; within from six to 
eight weelis there was an undercurrent just the opposite, and things 
began to loom up in a pro-German Avay. 

I could not bring any of my papers that we had collected over 
there along, because everything .was examined as we passed the 
border — the Russian- Finland border — last October, but in our church 
archives we have all these papers, and we have saved every scrap; 
and I think at least 50 of my friends have collected data for us. 

Senator Nelson. Let me call your attention to this. Was it not 
one of the first acts of ^^hat we call the Kerensky government to issue 
a general pardon to offenders? 

Mr. Simons. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And did not that result in bringing back Lenine 
from Siberia? 

Mr. Simons. Lenine, as you recall, did not come from Siberia, 
but came from another part of Europe, passing through Germany. 

Senator Nelson. But he Tiad been gent to Siberia ? 

Mr. Simons. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. He had been sent to Siberia either as a convict, 
or had been deported, and he came back by way of Switzerland and 

Mr. Simons. Well 

Senator Nelson. Do you not know that? 

Mr. Simons. We knew that he came from Switzerland. 

Senator Nelson. With German passports? 

Mr. Simons. With German passports, and the Germans expe- 
dited his transit, and the exit of those who came into Russia at the 
time when this movement had already been under way. 

Senator Wolcott. Which movement had been under way? 

Mr. Simons. The movement which became known as the Bol- 
shevik movement. 

Senator Wolcott. Well, you do not mean that he came in after 
this pro-German undercurrent had developed ? Did he come after 
the appearance of that pro-Germanism, or before? 

Mr. Simons. He came while that thing was growing. 

Senator Wolcott. And, of course, he did not try to stop it any, 
did he? 


IMr. SisroNs. Kerensky was spending a good deal of his time run- 
ning up and down the front, trying to hearten the B,u=;sian soldiers 
in their warfare, and he was generally accredited with being a fine 
orator and doing splendid work, and I do not doubt but what he 
did manage to keep the men longer than they otherwise would have 
stayed in, but we were told there were hundreds of agitators who 
had followed in the trail of Trotsky-Bronstein, these men having 
come over from the lower East Side of New York. I was sur- 
prised to find scores of such men walking up and down Xevslty. 
Some of them, when they learned that I was the American pastor 
in Petrograd, stepped up to me and seemed very much pleased that 
there was somebody who could speak English, and their broken Eng- 
lish showed that they had not qualified as being real Americans; 
and a number of these men called on me, and a number of us were 
imjDressed with the strong Yiddish element in this thing right from 
the start, and it soon became evident that more than half of the agi- 
tators in the so-called Bolshevik movement were Yiddish. 

Senator Nelsox. Hebrews? 

Mr. Siiiox'.s. They were Hebrews, apostate Jews. I do not want 
to say anything against the Jews, as such. I am not in sympathy 
with the anti-Semitic movement, never have been, and do not ever 
expect to be. I am against it. I abhor all pogroms of whatever 
kind. But I have a firm conviction that this thing is Yiddish, and 
that one of its bases is found in the East Side of New York. 

Senator Nelson. Trotsky came over from New York during that 
summer, did he not? 

Mr. Simons. He did. 

Senator O^teehiax. You think he brought these people with him? 

Mr. Simons. I am not able to say that he brought them with him. 
I think that most of them came after him, but that he was responsible 
for their coming. 

Senator Over Ji an. Do you know whether the Germans furnished 
them any money to come? 

Mr. Simons. It was generally understood that Lenine and Trotsky 
had been financed by the German Imperial Government. Docu- 
ments were afterwards issued showing that these leaders of the 
Bolshevik movement had received German funds. Mr. Nicholas A. 
Zorin, a personal friend of mine, who is the vice president of the so- 
called society for promoting mutual friendly relations between Eus- 
sia and America, worked out a treatise, as he called it, showing that 
the German Imperial Government was backing this thing, and he 
had gotten hold of certain documents, and he issued this thing 
privately, and scores of copies were sent to us for distribution. 
These were mimeograph copies. I could not bring one over with me, 
but I suppose the contents of his treatise are kno'\^■n to the State 
Department, because I handed copies to our embassy and our 

Senator Nelson. Have you got copies yourself, at home? 

Mr. Simons. No; I did not dare to bring that across the border, 
because it might incriminate me. 

Senator Nelson. We ought to get that document and put it in 
the record. 


Mr. Simons. I think you will find a copy in the Russian division, 
of the State Department. I am pretty sure they have one. 

Senator Overman. It would be a very remarkable thing if the 
Bolshevik movement started in this country, financed by Germans, 
would it not? 

Mr. Simons. I do not think the Bolshevik movement in Russia 
would have been a success if it had not been for the support it got 
from certain elements in New York, the so-called East Side. 

Maj. Humes. Doctor, you have referred to Lenine coming from 
Siberia through Switzerland. Is it not a fact that Lenine went from 
Siberia to Switzerland about the time or shortly before the out- 
break of the European war in 1914, and Avas in Switzerland from 
that time up until the time he returned to Russia? 

Mr. Simons. I have not paid particular attention to that phase of 
Lenine's career. I only know he was given the privilege by the 
German Imperial Government to have a hasty transit through Ger- 
many, and that they evidently seemed to be very anxious to get him 
as quickly as possible over to Russia. 

May I state at this juncture that before the outbreak of the war — 
that is, before Russia entered into the war — we were apprised, and 
it is a fact, that hundreds of thousands of rubles had been put at the 
disposal of certain labor leaders in St. Petersburg, as it was then 
known, to create a strike in the factories. A large number of fac- 
tories in Petrograd, as well as in Moscow and other parts of Russia 
near these large centers, have been controlled by British and Ger- 
man capital. It was apparent at that time that Germany was trying 
to cripple Russia economically by getting her into the throes of an 
awful strike. I have spoken with men who were high up in official 
life in Petrograd, and they said they had proofs. The thing after- 
wards came out in the Russian press, and, of course, there was a 
very strong anti-German feeling there as the result of that. Well, 
that strike did not prove successful because the old regime had so 
much power that it succeeded in squelching it. 

I have noticed again and again in Russia that there is a strong 
German element there. I gave a copy to our ambassador. Gov. 
Francis, of a so-called German yearbook which was suppressed, as 
well as a German daily newspaper, the oldest newspaper, so they 
claim, in all Russia, which was suppressed soon after Russia's en- 
trance into the war, and when the Bolsheviki came into power all 
these things were started up again. German papers were not only 
published, and everything that was German and pro-German fos- 
tered, but we also knew that at the outbreak or before the outbreak 
of the Bolshevik revolution of October, 1918, there were several Ger- 
man officers in the seat of the Smolny government, so called. 

There were two institutes « that had that name, and one of the 
buildings Lenine and Trotzky and their forces took even while 
Kerensky and the provisional government were governing, and one 
of the oldest teachers in the Smolny Institute had occasion to 
come over to the building where the Bolsheviki now had their 
guns, doing their work of propagandizing the Russian j)roletariat. 
She is a lady over 50 years of age, and had been teaching in the 
Smolny Institute, I presume, over 20 years, and has been attending 
our church for about 10 years, and is related to some of the most 


distinguished Eussians. She came to see me and said, " I have had 
an opportunity, because of being a teacher in the Smolny Insti- 
tute, to visit certain rooms in the building now occupied by the so- 
called Bolshevik government. I have seen with my own eyes Ger- 
man officers sitting at the long table around which sat the leaders 
of the Bolshevik movement. I have heard German spoken there. 
Because they believed in me I have had the privilege of passing 
through certain rooms, having to take certain things over for our 
teachers and our pupils, and what not, and several times I have 
noticed German documents on the table, with the German stamp''; 
and one time she told me that she had become impressed by one thing 
in the Smolny Institute, that more German was being used there 
than Russian. It may be she heard Yiddish, because Yiddish is 
partly German. It seems strange to me, but when you talk with the 
average man from the lower East Side he is not going to speak 
English or Russian, but he is going to speak Yiddish. It may be 
that she heard Yiddish and thought that she heard German; but 
anyway, that was her testimony. 

Senator Nelson. The Yiddish language is distinct from the He- 

Mr. Simons. It is German. It is a mistum compositum. 

Senator Nelson. It is a mixture of Hebrew and German, is it not? 

Mr. SiMONSif There are some Slavic terms, some Russian, and somB 
Polish iii it, and it may have some English, too. The Yiddish that 
is spoken on the East Side of New York has ever so much of the Eng- 
lish in it, and the Yiddish that is spoken in Petrograd, Moscow, War- 
saw, and Odessa, would have quite a lot of Russian in it. 

Senator Overman. This institute was the nest, the beginning, of 
this government, was it not? That was where it started, was it not? 

Mr. Simons. Yes. 

Senator Wolcott. You have made one statement here which to me 
is very interesting, largely because it may be intensely significant. 
Some time back in your testimony you said that it was your con- 
tention that if it were not for these elements that had come from 
the East Side of New York City, the Bolsheviki movement would 
have been a failure. That to me is very interesting, because if it is 
true it is very significant. There are many people in this country, I 
think — I am sure there are many people— ^who rather look upon this 
Bolsheviki movement as just a passing fad, and of no deep signifi- 
cance ; but, of course, if the success of this monstrous thing m Russia 
is due to the men who came out of New York City, then this country 
has not anything to deal with that is trifling, at all. 

Now, because of the very significance of that, can you tell us any- 
thing in the way of detail that leads you to the conviction that the 
presence of these East Side people in Russia contributed to the suc- 
cess of the Bolsheviki movement ? 

Mr. Simons. The latest startling information, given me by some 
one who says that there is good authority for it — and I ani to be 
given the exact figures later on and have them checked up properly 
by the proper authorities — is this, that in December, 1918. in the 
northern community of Petrograd, so-called — that is what they call 
that section of the Soviet regime under the presidency of the man 
known as Mr. Apfelbaum — out of 388 members, only 16 happened to 


be real Russians, and all the rest Jews, with the exception possibly 
of one man, who is a negro from America, who calls himself Prof. 
Gordon, and 265 of the members of this northern commune govern- 
ment, that is sitting in the old Smolny Institute, came from the lower 
East Side of New York — 265 of them. If that is true, and they are 
going to check it up for me — certain Eussians in New York who have 
been there and investigated the facts — I think that that fits into what 
you are driving at. In fact, I am very much impressed with this, that 
moving around here I find that certain Bolsheviki propagandists are 
nearly all Jews — apostate Jews. I have been in the so-called People's 
House, at 7 East Fifteenth Street, New York, which calls itself also 
the Rand School of Social Science, and I have visited that at least 
six times during the last eleven weeks or so, buying their literature, 
and some of the most seditious stuff I have ever found against our 
own Government, and 19 out of every 20 people I have seen there ha^e 
been Jews. 

And as I move around to give my lectures, usually I am pursued by 
Bolsheviki propagandists, and in one big church in New York I was 
interrupted, on the east side of the church — it so happened that they 
were sitting on the east side of the church — by two Bolsheviki agita- 
tors. I suppose they were agitators because they tried to agitate 
while I was giving my lecture on Russia, and they grumbled and 
growled, and the assistant pastor stepped up to them and tried to 
calm them, and they instantly remarked to him — I hate to repeat it,. 
but if you want to know I will tell you — " Everything that man says 
is a damn lie." When the pastor assured them that that language 
was not quite proper in the church, and so on, and asked them to 
speak with the speaker himself afterwards, they said it was no use 
speaking with him, " He knows nothing. But this book will tell you 
all about the thing, and give you the truth," and they handed him 
this book bj' Albert Rhys Williams, " 76 Questions and Answers on 
the Bolsheviki and Soviets," and he turned it over to me. 

On several other occasions men have tried to disturb our meetings^ 
using this pamphlet of Williams. 

I have analyzed certain questions and answers, especially with re- 
gard to this paragraph on religion, and I have no doubt in my mind 
that the predominant element in this Bolsheviki movement in America 
is, you may call it, the Yiddish of the East Side. 

Senator Wolcott. You said that you met many of these New York 
East Siders on the streets in Petrograd, did you not? 

Mr. Simons. I met a number of them on the Nevsky Prospect in 
Petrograd, yes; and spoke with them, and a number of them have 
visited me. 

Senator Wolcott. That was how long ago ? 

Mr. Simons. That was, I should say, well, along in, I think, June- 
and July. I have all these things checked up over in Petrograd, but 
they are put away in a trunk just now in the embassy, so, of course,. 
if i do not strike a date right 

Senator Wolcott. Approximately. 

Mr. Simons. I should say it was just before they made their first 
attempt in July, 1917, to oust Kerensky, but he had enough strength 
to put them down. 

Senator Wolcott. Are you able to say whether or not the appear- 
ance of these East Side New Yorkers, these agitators, was a sudden; 


appearance there ; did they seem to come all at once, a flock of them, 
so to siJeak, or had they been around, but just started to talk^ 

iNIr. SiJioxs. I was impressed with this, Senator, that shortly after 
the great revolution of the winter of 1917 there were scores of Jews 
standing on the benches and soap boxes, and wliat not, talking until 
their mouths frothed, and I often remarked to my sister. " "Well, what 
are we coming to, anyway? Tliis all looks so Yiddish." Up to that 
time we had very few Jews, because there was, as you may know, a 
restriction against having Jews in Petrograd ; but after the revolution 
thev swarmed in there, and most of the agitators happened to be 
Jews. I do not want to be unfair to them, but I usually know a Jew- 
when I see one. 

Senator Overman. You mean they are apostate Jews ? 

^Ir. Simons. Apostate Jews; yes. 

Senator Wolcott. You mean Christianized Jews? 

Mr. Simons. No, sir. 

Senator Wolcott. What do you mean by the term '' apostate " ? 

Mr. Simons. An apostate Jew is one who has given up the faith of 
his fathers or forefathers. 

Senator Wolcott. But he lias not accepted any other ? 

JMr. Simons. He has not accepted any other, except the Bolslievik 
faith or anarchistic faith, whatever it may be. 

Senator O^'erjian. AVere any of these men you met over there 
afterwards promoted by Trotsky or his people in the cabinet? 

]Mr. Simons. Some weelcs before 1 left Petrograd 1 became quite 
well acquainted with one member of the Soviet government, who was 
the commissar of the post and telegraph, Sergius Zorin, and I tried 
to get a dictum from him as to what would happen to me if I stayed 
there, inasmuch as a decree had been issued by the Soviet government 
that all subjects of allied countries remaining in Russia, from 18 to 
45 years of age, would be considered as prisoners of war. Our em- 
bassy had urged all Americans residing in Russia, in the fall of 
1917 and the winter of 1918, to leave that territory. Finally, Consul 
Poole, who was in Moscow up to about the middle or end of Septem- 
ber, 1918, wrote a letter to me stating that the American Government 
demanded that all American citizens should leave Russia immedi- 
ately, and that I should use whatever influence I had with the other 
Americans in Petrograd to have them leave also. 

1 then and there decided that I ought to find out just what would 
happen in case 1 could not get out — wliat would happen to me and 
my sister. I was not quite 45, but was within six months of my forty- 
fifth birthday, and I wanted to get from some of these commissars 
what they would do to me. The president of the northern commune 
section would not receive me. They told me he was not receiving 
anybody, that he was strongly guarded, and never slept in the same 
room twice. 

Senator Nelson. What was his name? 

Mr. Simons. Apfelbaum. That is his real name, but his assumed 
Russian name, like many of them, is Zinovyetf. His real name is 

Senator Nelson. That means apple tree, does it not ? 

Mr. Simons. Yes. But his second or third secretary — they were 
all Jews there — referred me in a rather vague way to any other com- 


missar that I might see. There had been threats made to kill not 
only Lenine and Trotsky, but Apfelbaum, and just prior to that 
another man, who, as was said, held the lives of all of us in his hands, 
and who was responsible for the killing of so many people without 
even a trial given them, was assassinated by a Jew. There was 
an awful terroristic atmosphere in Petrograd, and we were expect- 
ing still worse things to happen every day. With a view to finding 
out what my real status quo was in Soviet tei'ritory, and not having 
had any success with Mr. Apfelbaum, I Avent to the commissar of 
the post and telegraph, Sergius Zorin. I had learned that he had 
come from New York, whei'e he had spent eight years. 

Senator Nelson. What was his real name? 

Mr. Simons. I never asked him, but Avhen I called on him — I will 
get up to that point presently — he told me that so long as the Ameri- 
can troops did not take the offensive on Russian territory, we Ameri- 
cans residing in Russia would not be considered prisoners of war. 
I cabled that immediately to our authorities in New York, through 
the Norwegian Legation, who had the protection of American citizens 
and interests in Russia at that time. 

Senator Nelson. Did he speak to you in English, this man? 

Mr. Simons. He spoke in English. His English was quite fair. 

Senator Nelson. He had come from this country ? 

Mr. Simons. He had been in this country. 

Senator Nelson. From the East Side? 

Mr. Simons. I imagine so. 

Senator Wolcott. How do you spell his name ? 

Mr. Simons. Sergius Zorin, the commissar of the post and tele- 
graph. Commissar Zorin was very gracious, not only to me but 
also to Capt. Webster,' with whom he soon after became acquainted,, 
who was the head of the American Red Cross mission to Russia, 
While discussing different things Zorin told me that he was anxious 
to hear from his brother, a certain Alexander Gumberg, who he 
said was the secretary of Col. Raymond Robins. 

Senator Nelson. Where was he? 

Mr. Simons. He had left Russia, and Zorin was anxious to hear 
something from him. He said he had not heard from him for a 
long time, so he asked me if I, getting any papers from the outside 
or any mail, could get any word out to his brother. I said I would 
be glad to do that for him, and I wrote a letter to that effect to 
Col. Robins, which I believe he has never received. When last 
I met him he said he had not received it. 

Senator Nelson. Who is this Col. Robins? 

!Mr. SiMoxs. Col. Raymond Robins was identified with the Ameri- 
can Red Cross missimi ito Russia. 

Senator Nelson. Was he there in Russia, or here? 

Mr. Simons. At the tim.e I was speaking with Mr. Zorin he vas 
here in Amerirn, and Mr. Zorin spoke of him highly and said that 
he was the greatest American of all, and he hoped that he would 
be ambassador to Russia. , , .„ . -r. 

Senator 0-\terman. He is the chairman of the Progressive Party, 
is he not, Raymond Robins? 

Mr SiMoxs. I do not know very much about him, except what i 
have seen in Who's Who. I had always thought highly of Mm 


until he came over to Russia and embarrassed our embassy in many 
ways and got into the press, and our ambassador was obliged to 
come out again and again with certain statements, and finally the 
unpleasant controversy, if we may call it such, Avas brought to an 
end by a statement made by Ambassador Francis that he and Col. 
Eobins were friends, and he did not know who Avas trj'ing to cause 
enmity between them, or something to that effect, and he hoped now 
that this thing would be put at an end. 

I read all those things in the Russian press, and we felt very much 
distressed over it. because we thought that our ambassador, who was 
doing such magnificent work over there, ought to have the support 
of every last American. There was no reason why anybody should 
pose even as a candidate, so called, for the ambassadorship to the 
Soviet government. 

Senator "Wolcott. AVhat was the nature of the controversy that 
you speak of between the ambassador and Mr. Robins, that was pub- 
lished in the papers? 

Air. Simons. I have not the papers here. I think Prof. Harper 
is probably in possession of those papers, or they must have them in 
the Russian division of the Department of State. 

Senator "Wolcott. Can you not tell us in a general waj' what it 

Mr. SiAiONS. As I recall the whole thing, the Soviet government 
was feeling very strongly about the attitude which the allies and 
America, for that matter, had taken in regard to the Lenine-Trotsky 
regime in not recognizing them, and withdrawing their representa- 
tives, their ambassadore, and so on, and Gov. Francis issued, several 
times, messages in the Russian press to the Russian people assuring 
them of the good will of America, and so on; and coming out very 
plainly with this statement, that the Brest-Litovsk treaty would not 
be recognized at the peace conference, and in our Thanksgiving 
service in the American church in Petrograd in November, 1917, the 
ambassador said a similar thing. I have a copy of that speech. 
There were quite a number of distinguished Russians present, and 
that speech of his irritated the Bolsheviki very much. 

Then, his Fourth of July message, which was given in Vologda, 
on the 4th of July, 1918, distressed them very much, too. That was 
afterwards printed in thousands of copies in Russian and widely 
circulated, and Gov. Francis in that message, of course, even more 
strongly than ever stated that the Brest-Litovsk treaty would not be 
recognized at the peace conference, but that America would stand 
by the Russian nation and had a real affection for the Russian nation. 
1 am only quoting in a general way, because I have not the data here 
before me. 

Col. Robins was quoted again and again as being the typical 
American, having been a workingman himself, having been down in 
the mines, and whatnot, and he knew the needs of the laboring people, 
the laboring element, and so on; and then our Ambassador Francis 
was placed as being a typical capitalist, and they rang off a good deal 
of that, and he was persona non grata with the Bolsheviki officials 
for that reason. The criticisms against the Root mission were just 
along that same line. 

Senator Wolcott. Was all that accompanied by the suggestion 
that Mr. Robins ought to be ambassador ? 


Mr. Simons. That came out again and again,- that he really was 
going to be, and he ought to be, the American ambassador to the 
soviet government. 

Senator WoLCOTr. Is that what Mr. Apfelbaum wanted, too ? 

Mr. Simons. I have not spoken with Mr. Apfelbaum. 

Senator Wolcott. I mean the other fellow. 

Mr. Simons. Mr. Zorin? 

Senator Wolcott. Yes. 

j\Ir. Simons. Zorin was very enthusiastic about that proposition. 
Then he asked me if I could get in touch with his brother, Alexander 
Gumberg, who was supposed to be with Col. Robins somewhere in 
America ; but when I came here I did not find him. I was told that 
he had gone back to Europe, and possibly was going to Russia. 

Senator Overman. Did Robins make any statements over there, 
showing he was ambitious for this place and was siding with the 
Soviet government? 

Mr. Simons. He was reported as having said certain things, but I 
am not in a position to say that he really made those statements. I 
only know this much : There was a strong feeling on the part of the 
real Russian element against this thing. It became very nauseating 
to the people who really had admiration for America, and for our 
own American representative. Gov. Francis, whom I esteem most 
highly, as also his staff. I think we were most fortunate in hav- 
ing those men over there. I do not know any finer set that we ever 

Senator Nelson. Now, to bring you back to the chronological order 
of events, after Kerensky got in charge of the government, he at- 
tempted to prosecute the war against the Germans, did he not ? 

Mr. Simons. Kerensky, I believe, was sincere in that. 

Senator Nelson. He carried that on for a while, and was success- 
ful, until finally the Russian Army got demoralized and insisted on 
controlling their officers and everything else, and refused to fight, 
is not that true ? 

Mr. Simons. That is true. 

Senator Nelson. Do you know anything about how that movement 
demoralizing the army was inspired; by what element? 

Mr. Simons. I have heard from somebody recently, and I could 
check it up within a few days, 'that there was one American in the 
Y. M. C. A. that actually saw German money being passed over from 
the German front to the Russians. 

Senator Nelson. Among the Russian soldiers ? 

Mr. Simons. And to the men who were authorized to receive the 
money for propagandist purposes. 

Senator Nelson. Among the Russian Army ? 

Mr. Simons. Yes; and I do happen to know that soon after the 
great revolution of the winter of 1917 tens of thousands of copies of 
the communist manifesto, in Russian, were circulated among the 
Russian soldiers. It contained the official program of the Bolsheviki. 
That is the communist manifesto, and this is the thing that made the 
Lenine-Trotsky propaganda successful over there. This is an Eng- 
lish translation. 

Senator Nelson. Was not the collapse of the Russian Army, and 
the demoralizing of that army, by which the soldiers refused to 


fight, and even went over to the enemy, one of the means of helping 
Trotsky and Lenine to get control of the Go\-ernment? 

Mr. Simons. Most assuredly. 

Senator Overmax. And did these Yiddish from the East Side, who 
Avere there assisting Lenine and Trotsky, discuss this question of 
Bolshevism with you, or how did they impress you ? 

Mr. Simons. They were very guarded, because they knew that as 
a 100 per cent American, and as a Christian clergyman, I would not 
be in sympathy with the ideals and spirit, and the means which they 
were thinking of employing; but when I spoke with these men I 
always told them that our Methodist Episcopal Church in America, 
in the general conference of 1916, had passed very fine resolutions 
with regard to labor reform, and what not, and that ours was really 
the people's church. I had said that, and said also that I was a 
Christian Socialist, of course reserving for myself the definition. I 
am a Christian Socialist in the sense that every Christian who takes 
the New Testament as his ideal would be, standing very much where 
Charles Kingsley and Morris stood, believing not in revolutionary 
socialism, but evolutionary socialism, taking the Sermon on the Mount 
of Christ, and the thirteenth chapter of First Corinthians, as the 
ideal, believing that not by force but by moral persuasion shall we 
really succeed in making a brotherhood out of the Avhole human race. 

Senator King. You recognized that a brotherhood was compatible 
with the maintenance of orderly government ? 

Mr. Simons. I certainly would. 

Senator King. And your ideal of Christianity did not mean the 
subversion of government? 

Mr. Simons. First, last, and all the time I stood for Avhat we con- 
sider the most ideal government the world has ever had, the Govern- 
ment of the United States of America ; and I had no sympathy at 
all with the red flag propagandists. 

Senator King. You believed in a government that recognized the 
right of contract, the right of acquisition and the possession of prop- 
erty, and all those personal rights which we enjoy under our repre- 
sentative form of government? 

Mr. Simons. I certainly do. 

Senator King. You believe in this form of government? 

Mr. Simons. I certainly do. 

Senator King. You do not believe in any socialism which has for 
its object the destruction of our form of government? 

Mr. Simons. I absolutely repudiate all that. 

Senator King. So your classifying yourself as a Christian So- 
cialist does not mean an opposition to our form of government? 

Mr. Simons. Wlien I say Christian Socialist I mean that I take 
that tenn and I put it as high as it ever could be put, taking the 
teaching of Jesus Christ Avith regard to the principle of the father- 
hood of God and the brotherhoocl of man, standing by what Christ 
taught, the very best kind of socialism the world could ever hope 
for. That is Avhere Kingsley and Morris stood. That is where I 
think every real man would stand who knoAvs anything at all about 
the New Testament. If, of course, they had known what I had back 
in my mind, they would not have recognized me even as a tenth- 
rate Socialist. 


Senator Nelson. You were there Avhen the treaty of Brest-Litovsk 
was entered into? 

Mr. Simons. I was. 

Senator Nelson. Can you tell us anything wliich actuated the Bol- 
sheviki in entering into such a treaty? By that treaty they re- 
linquished the Ukraine, they relinquished Finland, they relinquished 
Courland and the Baltic coast, all, to the Germans. At all events, 
they gave up all, so that they left Russia with no access to the sea 
except at Petrograd; and they also got considerable gold from the 
Russian Government or from the Bolsheviki. 

Senator King. You ought to add to that, Senator, the Aland 
Islands, which are at the mouth of the sea, so it made the harbor of 
Petrograd valueless. 

Senator Nelson. The Aland Islands are southwest of the Finnish 

Senator King. But they are really a protection, as a naval base, 
very largely, to the entrance to the harbor that goes in to Petrograd — 
that arm of the sea that extends into Russia. 

Senator Nelson. Now, what information can you give us about 
that. Doctor? 

Mr. Simons. I am not a military expert, as you know. I read the 
papers and I heard the account of their proceedings at the Brest- 
Litovsk meeting, and so on, with scores of others who were in the 
British, American, and French colonies in Petrograd and Moscow, 
and Russians who were well qualified to pass judgment on the thing. 
I also had a strong conviction that the Brest-Litovsk performance 
was largely a German thing, and that for the simple reason that 
while Lenine and Trotsky ancl their helpers were saying all kinds of 
bitter things about the allies, I hardly ever, up to that time, caught 
them saying anything very bitter against Germany. I had seen their 
proclamations, and only last summer, in July and August. One 
particularly I have in mind, which was addressed to the whole 
civilized world and posted up all over Petrograd, and that referred in 
no delicate language to the allies as being flesh-eating and blood- 
drinking allies. 

Senator King. That included the United States, of course, in that 

Mr. Si^ioNS. Well, then they went on to speak of England and 
France. As I recall, I do not think they mentioned us, but in a 
number of conversations that I had with officials in the Soviet 
regime I discovered that there was a tendency to remain, if possible, 
friendly with America, which was interpreted by men in the diplo- 
matic service of the allied countries as being an attempt, if possible, 
to separate America from her allies. And then again, when the 
Bolsheviki regime would fall to pieces there might be an asylum to 
which the Bolsheviki demons might escape. Excuse me for calling 
them demons, but I have seen so much that I have not been able to 
find a better word to characterize thera. 

Senator Overman. Do you know this man Gordon that you spoke 
of — ^this negro from the United States? 

Mr. Simons. Yes ; I knew him. He came over to me to get married 
to a so-called Russian lady, who was an Esthonian. He lived with 
her only a short time. 


Senator Overiiax. Where did he come from, do you know? 

Mr. Simons. He came from America. He was a pugilist, and 
issued cards as being a professor of physical culture, boxing, and 
■what not, and for a certain time he was the doorkeeper in our 
American Embassy in Petrograd. 

Senator Overman. You spoke of him as being mixed up with this 
Bolshevik crowd in the institute. 

]\ir. Simons. I think that is the same Gordon — Prof. Gordon. 

Senator Overman. You spoke of his being in with these Bol- 

^Ir. Simons. That is the last statement that we had. 

Senator Overman. That he was with them? 

INIr. Simons. That was the last statement. 

Senator Xelsox. Do you not think the Germans absolutely con- 
trolled the situation at the time that the treaty of Brest -Litovsk was 
entered into, and that they practically had their own way? 

Mr. Simons. I certainly do. 

Senator Nelson. Do you not believe that Trotsky and Lenine were 
really in the toils of Germany and willing to do what Gennany 
wanted ? , 

Mr. Simons. I have been led to believe that most of the men in the 
Bolsheviki service, who are real Bolshevists — there are some who are 
not — most of them are avowedly antially, and have a strong hatred 
toward England, and an affection for Germany. That has come out 
again and again. 

Senator Nelson. "Were j'ou there when the revolution of Lenine 
and Trotsky, as distinguished from the former revolution, took place, 
in November, 1917? 

Mr. Simons. T was present. 

Senator Nelson. Can you tell us about what took place then? 

Mr. Simons. It is a long story. To give you a graphic picture of 
it would take hours. I can only say this 

Senator Nelson. Give us an outline. 

Mr. Simons. I can onlj' say this, that the air was pregnant with the 
most hellish terrorism that any fine grained person could ever expe- 
rience. I dressed up again and again as a Russian workman and 
put on a Russian shirt that hangs down almost to the knees, and I put 
on an old slouch hat and nickel spectacles so that my sister said I 
really looked like a Bolshevist, and I went out and moved among those 
fellows and I heard their talk. I moved into the barracks. I wanted 
to get inside information inasmuch as I was preparing a book. I 
felt that history was being made, and I believed in Russia, I loved 
Russia, but I did not believe in this thing, and I wanted to see just 
what it would do to the Russia that I expected to live, and I wanted 
to get first-hand information, and as I moved among the hoi poUoi, 
I found that the average man did not know the difference between 
his elbows and his knees. These agitators would come and speak for 
Lenine and Trotsky, and they would say, " That is entirely correct, 
entirely correct." And then, after those agitators had left with their 
truck auto, another auto would come along, and there would be some 
other agitators. 

Senatoi^ Nelson. "Who were those agitators ? Were they workmen 
■or soldiers, or of what class or community? 


Mr. Simons. They were made up of professional agitators, and 
some of them had on the Russian uniform, and some of them were 
simply clad as workmen, with the black robosa or workman's shirt. 

Senator King. Had any of them been in the United States, and 
gone back? 

Mr. Simons. Some of them had. 

Senator King. From the East Side? 

Mr. Simons. From the East Side, as I happen to knoAv. 

Senator Wolcott. This man Apfelbauni was not from the East 

Mr. Simons. I do not k^ow. I have not been informed as to his 
antecedents, and so on. I have a paper here which was circulated 
when Lenine and Trotsky were asserting themselves, in August, Sep- 
tember, and October of 1917, giving a list of about 20 names, showing 
the Jewish in one column, and then the assumed Russian name in the 
other. That thing was considered a very dangerous document, but it 
was being circulated everywhere, and one copj' came to me. In that 
■document I found Apfelbaum's name, and his assumed name. Be- 
yond that I do not know anything about Mr. Apfelbaum. 

Senator King. I interrupted, you when you were answering Senator 
Nelson's question. 

Senator Nelson. I would like to have you go on further and tell us. 

Mr. Simons. We could not escape this observation, that the suc- 
qess of the Bolsheviki revolution was largely due to the fact of having 
■employed terrorism. 

Senator Overman. What was the nature of the terrorism? 

Mr. Simons. They had practically all their men armed. The work- 
ingman there got so inspired with the holy zeal of the great cause, 
which was to kill off -the capitalist and enthrone the proletariat, that 
he felt he was in a holy crusade for humanity's sacred cause. That 
is the way those men talked : and these men were given arms. I have 
•one paper here which shows that they used it as a slogan. It reads 
something like this, " The surety of the proletarian cause lies in put- 
ting the gun into the hand of the workman." It was that thing that 
made the Bolsheviki revolution a success. Without having the so- 
called proletarian element armed. I do not believe it would have suc- 

Senator Nelson. The masses of their people, then, were armed, 
and paraded the streets in armed bodies, did they not? 

Mr. Simons. Many of them ; yes. 

Senator Nelson. And that parading of these armed men bred this 
spirit of terrorism? 

Mr. Simons. They then took opportunity to oppose all political 
parties that were not in favor of the Bolsheviki program. The differ- 
■ent parties were defined, and they were still hoping that they might 
succeed in having their constituent assembly, but soon after the 
Bolshevist revolution had succeeded, even those banners were torn 
down, and it was considered the most dangerous thing to even speak 
in favor of a constituent assembly. 

Senator King. A constituent assembly representing all of them? 

Mr. Simons. All of the parties. 

Senator King. Which gave them all a chance to participate? 

Mr. Simons. Yes. 


Senator King. The peasants, the workingmen, the laboring men: 
proletariat and capitalistic classes? 

Mr. Simons. Yes. 

Senator King. A sort of general democratic government? 

Mr. Simons. Yes. 

Senator Wolcott. Were there any threats manifest at that time to 
kill those who had property or were intellectual people? 

Mr. Simons. After the Bolsheviki came into power one paper 
after another that stood out against them was suppressed, and it 
was not long before we had only one kind of press there, and that 
was the Bolshevistic or anarchistic. I h^ve a few copies here, and 
in these papers they employ the harshest terms that I have ever found, 
in regard to putting out of the way all groups or institutions that 
were not in sympathy or in accord with the Bolshevik ideal, spirit, 
and program. 

Senator King. Do you mean assassination and murder to accom- 
plish that end? 

Mr. Simons. It became quite evident that they had that as their — 
what shall I say? — trump card, and many of their proclamations 
breathed not only an intense diabolical class hatred, but also murder, 
and for weeks and weeks they were fine-tooth combing the dif- 
r«nt sections of Petrograd — and ^loscow, for that matter — trying to 
get hold of the officers who up to that time had been holding out 
against them. Many of them had already made their escape and 
gone over to the allies. 

Senator Nelson. You mean the army officers ? 

Mr. Simons. The army officers. And they were rushing from one 
home to another. Some of them even came to us and asked whether 
they could not spend the night with us. They said, " It will be only 
for one night " ; but we never did that, for the simple reason that we 
did not want to be found guilty of that sort of thing. Scores of 
these officers — and some of them who were high up in the Russian 
Army under the old Government and imder the provisional govern- 
ment — called on me when the embassy was no longer there, and asked 
me to give them either a card or a letter to our embassy in Vologda, 
which I did. These men gave me a good deal of information, too. I 
have made memoranda of some of these conversations, but all that 
lies in the trunk over in the American Embassy in Petrograd, await- 
ing the day when I can go there and use it for later publication. 

Senator Xelson. Can you tell us of the acts of barbarism and the 
destruction of life and property that took place there? Can you 
tell us anything about that i 

]\Ir. Simons. I beg your pardon. 

Senator Xelson. You have spoken of the terrorism they engen- 
dered by beinp' armed. Can you tell us wlmt they did ? 

ilr. SuroNs. Here are a few things that came under my own im- 
mediate observation : It was a short time before Ambassador Francis 
left Petrograd that we invited him to have dinner with us. It must 
have been either in December or January — I am not sure, but I am 
inclined to believe it must have been in January or February, 1918 — 
but about an hour and a half Ijefore he came, accompanied by two of 
his secretaries, one of the most horrible things I have ever witnessed 
hapjoened right in front of our American proj^erty there. I was m 


my office at the time, speaking with our head deaconess, and I heard 
shots and groans, and looked out of the window, and right in front 
of our property there was a crowd of people, all ex:ited, shouting, 
and two Russian soldiers running, with several Eed Guards — Bol- 
sheviks — right after them, and I witnessed tlieui shoot each of those 
men as they Avere falling, three or four times in the head. 

Our own household became '^omewhat alarmed. We did not know 
just what the nature of this was. Possibly it was something that 
would involve us. I at once < ailed for the sexton or janitor — in this 
case he was both — of our church, and asked him to investigate. He 
then learned that these men had been in a tea-drinking room down the 
street, and had been charged with having tried to steal, but whether 
or no they were guilty never came out. But the Bolshevik Red Guards 
never stopped to ask whether a man was guilty or not ; they would 
shoot on the spot. I have seen that again and again. I had an in- 
stance of that brought to my attention in the case of two brothers, 
where the one they wanted was not there, and they shot the other 
man by mistake, and the other one went free. 

In this particular instance we felt queer, because in a minute the 
ambassador might come to see us, and it did not look quite palatable 
to have a pool of blood with two dead bodies, like that, in front of 
one's house, when a distinguished man like Gov. Francis was to 
come to dinner. But he came, and it was then already dark, for- 
tunately, and he did not see any of that. I told him about it, and he 
seemed to enjoy it. I mean he was keen on hearing any of these 
things. He was a brave soul, and referred to his own fearlessness, 
and incidentally always having a good little friend in his back 
pocket — a Browning. This did not unnerve the ambassador in the 
least. He then told me a number of things that showed that he had 
experienced possibly more than we had. 

On another occasion the Bolshevik Eed Guards, of a morning, 
about half past 2, tried to bi'eak into our house. They were climb- 
ing up the emergency ladder, and our janitor, like most other people 
in Petrograd, who were only getting dried fish to live on — there was 
hardly any bread to be had — was afflicted with the same malady that 
others were suffering with, and he was up that night, fortunately, 
and he looked around and saw two men climbing up the emergency 
ladder, trying to get into our house and to break into the garret. 
A few days before that time the door leading to the garret had been 
tampered with, and I suspected that something was being done, and 
I had the old lock taken off and a new one put on, and then a second 
door properly fixed up with a padlock, so they would have a kind of 
a hard time getting into our premises. At all events, he approached 
them and he said, " Comrades, what are you desiring ? What do you 
wish ? " They said to him, " You hold your mouth shut, and you 
will get 5,000 rubles," and quick as a flash he answered and said, 
" You think I am a Jew 1 " And then they remarked to each other, 
" Let us go," and they ran as fast as their feet could carry them 
through the yard and over the fence. 

I investigated that thing afterwards and found there was a plan 
to get me to pay money. I was looked upon by certain Bolshevik 
officials as being a capitalist. I was the trustee of our property, be- 
cause it was found up to a certain time that we could not very well 


have our legalizing papers, but we took counsel with our law3'er, 
who was also the lawyer for the ambassador, and he said the best 
thing to do was to keep your property for the time being, until things 
became normal and Russia had a new law, in your own name. I was, 
because of being known as a property owner, put in the fourth cate- 
gory, which, of course, was to be starved out and in due time ex- 

I happen to know that some of the Americans who had property 
over there were blaclanailed ; one man in particular, Mr. Hervey, 
with whom I had had long talks up to the time I left. They had 
arrested him, and he was to pay a fine. He had a factory over there, 
and he had invested something like $100,000, so he told me, and the 
reason he stayed there was to protect his property. For some viola- 
tion of a decret, he had to pay a fine. They were getting out new 
decrets every week, and a man did not know what he could do and 
what he could not do, because of the multiplicity of decrets. 

Senator King. They were the basis of confiscation, were they not? 

Mr. SiMoxs. Yes. They were working out, if you please, a new 
scheme of government, which touched e^•ery conceivable thing in a 
man's social and economic existence. We at times felt so nervous 
that we did not know what next to expect. Where we used to have 
to pay 3 rubles a year as a dog tax — we had two English fox ter- 
riers who did excellent police duty for us — under the Bolsheviks we 
had to pay 50 rubles for each clog. The telephone bill used to be 
something like, as I recall it, 85 rubles. Under the Bolsheviks it 
was in the neighborhood of 300 rubles — that is, for our class. For a 
business man it would be, I suppose, from 500 to 600 rubles. And so 
all along. If you had a bathtub, or if you had more windows than 
ordinarily a man ought to have, or if you had a piano, or an organ — 
and the last thing, that distressed us very much was that all type- 
writers were to be registered. I tried to get our new American type- 
writer put in the embassy, and the old Russian one as well. Those 
were never registered. I was advised by the secretary, who is still 
there, to do as others had been doing. 

Senator Overman. They had the idea of fixing a tax on type- 
writers ? 

Mr. Simons. They had the idea of laying their hands on every- 
thing. They could not get away from that, because they simply 
had a diabolical zest for gTabbing; and they were putting it really 
through in such a cruel way; they came in with such a diabolical 
glee and they would be so offensive in their language. I have had 
occasion to speak with some of these men, who were usually Jews, 
and I would never mince matters with them. I would say, "Do you 
know who I am, and what I have done for Russia?" and so on. 
"Why do you proceed in this way?" Usually when I got through 
they would be ready to kiss my feet, which was not necessary ; and I 
have this impression, that there is a large criminal element in the 
Bolsheviki regime. Anybody that knows anything about Russia 
Ivnows this, that when the great revolution of the winter of 1917 
came, all the courts with their documents were destroyed. For days 
and days we saAv tons of old documents smoldering "on the streets. 
They threw those things out of the buildings and set fire to them, and 
Avhat not. The same thing happened to the police buildings. We had 


a police precinct, so called, diagonally opposite our property, and I 
was on good terms with the captain, so called, of that precinct. He 
was a fine gentleman. I knew the other men in the office very well. 
That is only on the side. Out of the prisons which were destroyed 
hj fire — they placed machine guns on them — out of the prisons, out 
of the houses of detention, out of the other institutions where 
certain people had been kept by order of the court, came thousands 
of the worst type of criminals. Kerensky and the provisional gov- 
ernment tried to rearrest some of those. They succeeded in getting 
some of them back under cover. But when this Bolsheviki, anar- 
chistic movement effervesced, in the summer of 1917, there were 
groups that would swarm around certain of these places to get their 
comrades out, and so by the time the Bolsheviki revolution was pretty 
well under swing there were practically no criminals in a place where 
they ought to be kept, and we know it to be a fact that some of the 
worst characters have been holding positions under the Bolsheviki. 

Senator King. And those that were not elevated to such posi- 

Mr. Simons. "VYere engaged as agitators. 

Senator King. And many of them were armed and constituted a 
part of the Bolsheviki armies? 

Mr. Simons. And afterwards, because of their relation to the Bol- 
sheviki regime, and having their protection, went out and raided 
houses ; and when the banks were to be confiscated, socialized, and na- 
tionalized — ^those were the three terms we were hearing there all the 
time for their damnable robbery — there were men who were known 
to be criminals going into these banks and helping to do that sort of 
thing. That is a well-known fact, and you can get the names over 

Senator Nelson. Did not the Bolsheviki also absorb and take into 
their fold in one form or another the old nihilists? 

Mr. Simons. They would take anybody in. They would even take 
a monarchist in, provided the monarchist would say, "I will help 
you to run this department." 

Senator Nelson. Doctor, Avill you go on and tell us what you saw 
in reference to the efforts of the proletariat to take possession of the 
property of the capitalists? 

Senator King. If I may be pardoned, you asked him a question a 
few moments ago, in answer to which the doctor gave one or two 
instances of cruelty that came under his own observation. Generally 
speaking, without going into details, what can you say as to there 
being a reign of terror involving murder, assassination, and the 
driving of people from their homes, and the starving of men, women, 
and children, particularly those who did not belong to what might 
be denominated the Bolsheviki ? 

Mr. Simons. I could speak for hours on that and prove that the 
thing is diabolically terroristic, and that they have a strong animus 
against everybody who is not in their class, which they call the 
Black Workmen's Class. As a property owner there and the head 
of our church I had a good deal to do with them administratively. 
We were sought by the hour to write out all kinds of documents, 
according to their scheme, and we were having to run to and fro. 
They were nearly all Jewish persons we had to deal with, and they 


were all nasty in their way of speaking of the people of the other 
class, offensively so. and they would sometimes come into the house 
and begin to stamp around, until they were given to understand they 
were not dealing with a Russian citizen but with an American 

A dozen armed men came in there and surrounded my sister and 
abused her. 

Two of them came in there armed one night, for no other reason 
than that they suspected I was anti-Bolshevik, and, consequently, I 
must be an anarchist. They banged away at our back door, and my 
two fox terriers ran after me, and I had to throw them first into the 
kitchen. I was losing time, and in the meantime these men were get- 
ting impatient, and they were just about to break through the door 
when I opened it. I had to lose some time there because we had a 
Yale lock, and a bolt, and then an old-fashioned Russian lock on the 
aoor, and I had to turn the key in that Russian lock twice, but when I 
got it open thej' ran right up to me and held out two revolvers against 
my chest and threatened to shoot me. charging me with being an 
anarchist. I smiled and called them " Comrades," and told them 
there must be a mistake; that I was not a Russian, to begin with, 
but that I was an American, and was a born democrat and never 
knew what it was to luive any monarchistic ideas at all, and that 1 
was for a republic first, last, and all the time, and long before they 
were born. 

Senator Xelson. And I presume you told them you were a Chris- 
tian Socialist? 

Mr. SiMoxs. Well, afterwards that came out; but they stormed 
around there for a while. But when they saw they had made a mis- 
take they asked whether we had a telephone. 

Senator Nelson. Did you talk with them? 

Mr. SiMOxs. I certainly did. 

Senator Xelson. Did they speak English? 

Mr. Simons. They spoke Russian. Those two Red Guards were not 
Russians; they were Letts. The way they spoke Russian I could 
tell they were not real Russians, but were Letts, and the Letts, by the 
way, are, perhaps, the most cruel element that we had in the revo- 
lutions of 190.5 and the revolutions of 1917 and 1918. 

Senator King. The Letts constituted about 25 to 30 per cent of the 
Bolshevik army, as it was constituted about six months ago, and 
the Chinese about from 50,000 to 60,000, and the criminals about 
100,000, with a few Russians, a number of Germans, and a few 
Austrians scattered among them. Is not that about the situation as 
it was about six months ago ? 

Mr. Simons. I think you are quite correct, generally speaking. 
I have learned that there are thousands of German prisoners of war, 
and Austrian prisoners of war, Austrians and Hungarians, who be- 
came infected with the Bolshevist idea while they were in prison 
camps in Siberia. I have met a few men who were Russians, and 
had been out there and investigated the thing, and they told me that 
even last August those men said, " We do not care one way or the 
other about the Bolsheviki government. What we care about is 
having plenty to eat and good clothes and '" — I beg pardon for say- 
ing this — " all the women we want." There has been a strong appeal 


to that thing. The immoral element is so ever present that I hate 
to say it in this promiscuous company, but I am a Christian clergy- 
man and I know you want testimony. I am not responsible for 
ladies being here, but the thing is so immoral that it distresses me, 
especially when ladies are around. 

Senator Nelson. Who are the Letts, as contradistinguished troni 
the Eussians ? 

Mr. Simons. The Letts are from that section in and around Riga 
and they constitute a very large part of the population of Riga. 
When the Germans came in there and suppressed the revolution 
of the Bolsheviki proletariat in the Baltic Provinces, these Letts, 
who had done very good fighting under the old regime and were 
■considered the best fighters in the Russian Army, were forced out, 
and they came from what they considered their own fatherland 
down into Russia proper, and were, if you please, without their 
bearings, and Lenine and Trotsky made use of them, offering them 
large sums of money; and although these Letts are known to have 
never had any affection for the Germans, especially for the Baltic 
Germans, and very little affection for the Russians, here came the 
question of having plenty of food, good shelter, and warm attire, 
and — I repeat what they ha-^e said themselves — the privilege of doing- 
whatever they wished in the cities of Petrograd and Moscow. 
Lenine and Trotsky both have said, and they have borne it out in 
their actions, that they would not rely on Russians to protect them, 
but they would rely on the Letts: and the Russians, on the whole, 
have no affection for the Letts. I believe the average Russian thinks 
less of a Lett than he does of any other nationality or race. 

Senator Nelson. The Letts are an offshoot of the Finnish race, 
are they not ? 

Mr. Simons. No: the Esthonians are an offshoot. 

Senator King. The Letts are Slavs, and the Finnish are 

]Mr. Si3i0NS. The Finnish are related to them, and they understand 
■each other quite well. If a Finn is speaking, an Esthonian will catch 
everything he says, and vice versa. 

Senator King. The Chinese formed a considerable portion of the 
Red Guards, did they not? 

Jlr. SiMOKS. Chinese coolies, quite a number of them, were up 
in Finland at that time, doing work under the old regime in Rus- 
sia, chopping down trees, and doing other manual labor there, and 
when the Red movement in Finland was suppressed thousands of 
these Chinese, who were also called coolies, came into Russia proper. 
We saw quite a number of them in Petrograd ; and we had quite an 
epidemic of smallpox, which was due to these people. 

Senator King. Were they not employed in building that road up 
on the Kola Peninsula, and the harbor there on the Murman coast? 

Mr. Simons. I did not have occasion to go up there, so I can not 

"Senator Kixg. But those Chinese were employed on building that 
road. Doctor, of your own knowledge, would you say that the 
Chinese and the German and Austrian soldiers who claimed no citi- 
zenship anywhere, men who had been prisoners in Russia, consti- 
tuted a part of the Bolshevist military establishment? 

85723—19 9 



Mr. jSiMONS. I will go this far in saying that but for this element 
there never would have been a nucleus to the Bed army. 

Senator Kixg. So, then, these former German prisoners and 
former Austrian prisoners, and the Chinese coolies and the Letts, 
with some Kussians, constituted the major part of the army? 

Mr. Simons. Yes ; and, of course, they were getting thousands of 
Russian workmen. That we saw with our own eyes, that thej- no 
longer could get any work, because nearly all their factories were 
put out of business; and there is a long story connected with that 
which involves German agents, and much machinery was destroyed 
for no other purpose than that, as we knew, Russia was to be crippled 
economically and made dependent upon Germany for various prod- 
ucts ; and we also knew — and this I state emphatically — that at the 
time of the Brest-Litovsk treaty, thousands of commercial men from 
Germany were already walking the streets of Petrograd and Moscow 
and other large centers, taking ordere. 

Senator Nelson. For German goods? 

Mr. Simons. For Geiinan wares; and it looked very much as 
though Germany had it in her mind to cripple Russia economically, 
and the Bolshevik regime had 

Senator Nelson. Winked at it? 

Mr. Simons. Helped it very much. Whether they did that know- 
ingly or not I do not know; I am not going to say; but it looked 
rather suspicious to many of us who were eyewitnesses. I knew 
men who were at the head of the work at the factories, and they said, 
"Just to think of it ! These workmen came in here and they stormed 
around, and they pulled the finest machinery to pieces, and when 
we tried to prevail with them not to do this, that it was bread and but- 
ter, they said, ' Ha, our bread and butter ! We are now demolishing 
capitalism.' " That was put into their heads, " We are now abolish- 
ing capitalism;"' but they were killing the goose that laid the golden 
egg. They did not quite see the connection between having a fac- 
tory that was kept intact and the possibility of having a livelihood. 
The sad part of it all is that most of those jDeople were illiterates, and 
it was a foregone conclusion that manv of these things could not be 

Senator Xelson. Doctor, will you go on and describe to us the 
soviet plan of government, their scheme of government, and the way 
thej' propose to put it into practice? 

Senator King. Before that, if you will permit me, right there in 
sequence: You spoke about their cruelties and atrocities. What did 
it result in with respect to the bourgeois? 

Mr. Simons. It resulted in this, that thousands of the best people 
of Petrograd and Moscow and other parts had been losing all their 
property, and in many cases were having members of their own 
households arrested. Ever so many of these things came under my 
personal observation. They had only one wish, and that was to get 
out of Russia. But the Bolsheviki were not letting people get out of 
Russia. It was the hardest thing to get permission from them if 
you wanted to leave Russia. But they were making their escape by 
all kinds of methods. I will not go into that. Many of them suc- 
ceeded, and we succeeded in getting some very distinguished people 
out of Russia ourselves by hook and crook, because some of them said : 


'■ If we do not get out we know we are going to be murdered, because 
our names are on the lists of the thousands who are held as bour- 
geois hostages." 

Senator Overman. Hostages? What does that mean? It is not 
used in the ordinary sense, I understand. 

Mr. Simons. To state it popularly, their idea was to hold certain 
people of the bourgeois class, whose names they had down to be ar- 
rested, and perhaps put out of the way if anything befell the Bolshe- 
vik government; for instance, like the attempt to kill Lenine, or the 
successful assassination of Uritzky, commissar in Petrograd, who was 
killed by a fellow Jew ; and these people were held as hostages. 

Senator King. To illustrate, they are holding now as hostage the 
wives and the families of some of the Russian officers whom they 
have forced into their army? 

Mr. Simons. They are. 

Senator King. And if they do not run the army as they think 
they ought to, they threaten to kill their families? 

Mr. Simons. I do not know whether I ought to come out with this 
statement, but scores of them have come to me and said that it was 
breaking their hearts. They say, " We have to do this, but we t]\iuk 
you and others ought to know, and hope you will square us with the 
allies." Some of the finest men I have known have said, " If we do 
not go in they will shoot us right down." Some were shot; some 
made their escape ; some were in hiding for months and months, never 
sleeping in the same place two nights in succession. Some of these 
horrible things were being enacted for weeks and weeks right in our 
own section, and some Americans were arrested and then afterwards 

You asked me about their terroristic methods. I was an American 
and was known to be a friend of Eussia, and a friend of the working 
people, and yet in our open meetings it became so apparent that there 
was a strong feeling against the Christian religion, against every- 
thing that was Christian, especially against the Young Men's Chris- 
tian Association and the Young Women's Christian Association and 
the Salvation Army, and all Christian bodies, that threats were 
made like this : A group of ill-clad workmen stood in front of our 
house at the close of an open-air meeting which I had conducted 
one Sunday afternoon, which we have been doing ever since the great 
winter of 1917. One of our members overheard one of them say, 
" Before sundown we ai'e going to stick out the eyes of that man with 
the spectacles." They never got as far as the spectacles. 

Another case was this, where an intoxicated self-confessed Bolshe- 
viki was moving around the pulpit. We had to take our pulpit and 
put it on the stone stoop that we had on the side of the house, and 
then we would have hundreds of people facing us, and he would move 
around that pulpit and I would talk kindly with him, and I told him 
that it was evident that he was tired, and so on, and wouldn't he take 
one of those chairs. We had a few chairs out there for some of our 
elderly people. He refused to be seated, and he came back to the 
pulpit again. One of our oldest members talked with him and he 
said " I am going to put that man out of business," and he lingered 
around our property for a couple of hours. After the meeting was 
over this one member felt very nervous about it. He had been im- 



bibing, so this friend of ours, a member of mir church, took him all 
arovmd those streets near the garden, as they call it, or Haven of 
Petrograd — so that he finally, ^Yhen it grew dark, did not know where 
he was — and then left him, and we never saw him again. 

I could relate a few other things — how they tried to break into our 
house early in the morning, and one of the men was promptly killed 
bj' a Eed Guard. 

Senator King. Doctor, what I was trying to get at is the extent of 
the terror and the etfect on the bourgeoisie and the mass of the 
higher chi.sses; whether they are forced to starve to death or not? 

Jlr. SuroNs. Yes. We saw them as walking shadows in the streets 
of Petrograd. I have seen with my own eyes people dropping dead. 
First, before they pass away over there, their faces bloat up; and wq 
had at one time, when we were not getting bread, an average of 60 
horses dropping dead on the street. 

Senator King. Per day? 

?i[r. Si:mons. Sixty horses per day. I have seen many of them my- 
self lying there. A Mohammedan and a Jew came up, and they 
would dicker Avith each other before the horse had gone to the place 
of his fathers, and they would say, " If we could keep him alive a 
few hours more, he would be worth more." They would sell horse- 
flesh. I have seen people standing there — I recollect in one instance a 
ni:ii! in a general's uniform, a man with a white lieard, stood on Bol- 
shoi Prospect with tears on his cheeks, asking, " For God's sake, give 
me a few kopecks.'' Xone of the workmen would give him any. He 
stood there. I almost collapsed myself, because I had suffered my- 
self and seen so much of this diabolical business, this antihuniani- 
tarian I'egime; yet I wanted to see that. T thought that would be 
effective in my book. And some people of the second and third and 
fourth categories, who had a few spare stamps — we had no coins any 
more — would give him '20 ov 30 kopecks. I Ivavq been in homes where 
they had not had any bread for weeks, and I recall one case now ■ 

Senator King. Would these be the bourgeois? 

jMr. Simons. Yes. But they were also putting the screws on people 
who wei-e not bourgeois, but who were — I presume the best thing 
would be to call them the middle class — people that believed in the 
use of a clean handkerchief once in a while, having perhaps a gold 
ling; but that immediately would put thcni under the condemnation 
of being bourgeois. I had occasion to speak with people Avho were 
woiiving and people who were not bourgeois. I interviewed hundreds, 
and I asked them. ' Well, what do you think of this thing T' " Well, 
we know that it is first of all German, and second, we know that it is 
Jewish. It is not a Russian proposition at all. That became so 
popular that as you ujoved through the streets in Petrograd in July 
and August and September and the beginning of October, openly 
they would tell you this, " This is not a Russian Government ; this is 
a German and Hebrew Government." And then others would come 
out and say, "And very soon there is going to be a big pogrom." 
As a result of that, hundreds of Bolshevik officials who happened to 
be Jews were sending their wives and their children out of Petrograd 
and Moscow, afraid that the pogrom would really come. I cabled 
something of that in a quiet way to our authorities, and it came to 
them through the State Department. 


Senator Wolcott. I gather from what you say, Doctor, that this 
vhole regime over there is sustained by a small minority of these 
slements that are entirely out of sympathy with the great Russian 
jeople, and that they are imposing their will upon that nation by 
iorce and terror. Is that correct or not? 

Mr. Simons. Absolutely correct, and I have seen with my own eyes 
lOw they have been marching hundreds of people down the Bolslioi 
Prospect, on which our property was situated, and I have seen themi 
marching hundreds of them down to the garden or haven, and from 
:here they were taken down to Kronstadt and put in the fortress 
:here; and then through members of the Noi'wegian legation, tbo 
Danish legation, and the Swedish legation, we would learn that 
scores of them were being killed. 
' Senator King. Was that a constant occurrence? 

Mr. Si:moxs. That was. Senator, after the assassination of Commis- 
sar Uritzky. 

Senator WoLCOi'-r. By the way, have you ever had any occasion to 
make a rough estimate of the number of murders committed by this 
Bolshevik regime from the time they got in the ascendancy in No- 
vember, 1917, until the time you left? 

Mr. Simons. It was almost impossible to get any statistics on that. 

Senator Wolcott. Not even approximate? 

Mr. Simons. I would not dare even to guess. 

Senator Wolcott. In the hundreds or thousands? 

Mr. Simons. I should say that if what they have said in their 
speeches, in their proclamations, and in their Bolshevik press, would 
be any indication, already thousands of the bourgeois class have been 
killed ; because they came out openly and said, " For every one of 
the proletariat that is killed we shall kill a thousand of the bourgeois 

Senator King. What do you say as to the starvation, the extent of 
it among the bourgeois and the better classes ? 

Mr. Simons. They had a system which divided the population into 
four classes. The first category — they used the term " category " — 
was made up of the black workmen's class. They were to have any 
food that might be available. 

Senator King. The soldiers came first, did they not? 

Mr. SiJcoNs. And tlie Red army; yes. 

Senator King. Then the black workmen ? 

Mr. Simons. Well, I am speaking now of this particular thine: 
they were sending around to us. I have a copy with me here, 'and 
I could show you that in translation. The first category was the 
black workmen's c1;isr. That constituted, if you please, the nobility 
of the proletariat. Then came the second category, of men who were 
working in the stores and offices. If anything was left after the first 
category got theirs, they came in. Then came the third category, 
which included the professional people, teachers, doctors, lawyers, 
clergymen, artists, singers, and so on. I belonged to that category, 
as a pastor. Then came the fourth category, made up of the property 
owners and the capitalists. 

The third and the fourth classes, they said openly in their Bol- 
shevik press and proclamations and speeches, were to be starved out. 
If I have heard it and read it once, I have come across that state- 



ment scores of times, and they even had cartoons showing how the 
people of culture and refinement were being treated like dogs who are 
watching for a crumb that falls from the table. I have seen some 
of the most inhumane pictures in the month of August, Iflis. As a 
member of a category I was entitled for the whole month to one- 
eighth of a pound of bread, and my sister likewise. Our head 
deaconess was treated in the same way. We were doing charitable 
work, too, but all that had no influence ; and the fact that we were 
trying to get food into Eussia, and they Icnew that we were cabling, 
and all that, did not weigh with them at all. We were simply put 
in tlie same category. We ought to be starved out. 

Senator Wolcott. Let me ask j'^ou : Suppose a workingman living 
in Petrograd had, by his hard labor, saved enough to buv himself a 
little home, and lived with his wife and children in his home, which 
he had been able to buy by hard labor and saving all his life, what 
class would he have fallen in? 

Mr. Simons. If he had worked in a factory and was a member of 
the factory unit in the so-called workmen's book, with his portrait 
in it, that came in under the Bolshevik regime as a substitute for the 
passport; he would usually be considered as a workman, and under 
the present Bolsheviki would not be molested because of owning 

Senator Wolcott. Suppose he was not working any longer? 

Mr. SiiroNS. If they had suspicions that he had a bourgeois spirit 
and ideals and wanted to wear a white shirt and to use certain things 
that we people of refinement are accustomed to, he might fall into 
disgrace with them. 

Senator Wolcott. He would be marked for starvation, would he? 

Mr. Si:mons. Well, now. that is hypothetical. Judging from what 
I have seen there, I would say that they would mark him. I think so. 

Senator Wolcott. When a man is marked for starvation, are his 
wife and children in the same category with him, under their way of 
reforming the world ? 

Mr. Simons. You are speaking in a general way. There are ex- 
ceptions over there. I know of many cases where even people of 
the third and fourth categories, by properly manipulating the subway 
resources, have been able to get almost everything they wanted. 
The Bolsheviki official is just as weak to accept bribes as the officials 
Tvere under the old regime, and if you have enough monej' you can 
have almost anything you please ; and if you find that you are listed 
to be arrested and killed, if you have enough money your life will 
he spared. I have had such cases under my observation. Money 
talks, over there. 

Senator King. By confiscating property have the}' been able to 
get money to pay their men and soldiers and officials? 

Mr. SisroNS. I am not informed as to how much real money they 
got into their hands. I understood that when they rifled ever so 
many safe-deposit vaults there was a great disappointment. They 
did not find all the gold they expected to get. 

Senator King. They are using paper money almost exclusively? 

Mr. Simons. Yes ; but they were after gold. 

Senator King. Has the population of Petrograd and Moscow been 
largely reduced by reason of the terrorism and starvation? 


Mr. Simons. The last I heard was that Petrograd, which used to 
have — I am speaking now of the period under the great war — a 
population of over 2,000,000, and it got up to about 2,300,000, as I 
recall, has dropped down, so we are told, to 600,000 or 800,000. 

Senator King. Up to the time you left ? 

Mr. Simons. Up to the time I left. 

Senator King. Could you witness a great reduction in the popu- 
lation ? 

Mr. Simons. Why, I noticed this, that we had very few of the 
middle class left, and of the so-called aristocracy hardly any. At 
that time they were making arrangements to have the working class 
enter the palaces and mansions and the fine homes and apartments. 
The president of the northern union came out with a very red-hot 
proclamation — I think it was in July or August, 1918 — in which he 
began by saying, " The English have a saying, ' My house is my 
castle.' " That was his theme. Then he used a good deal of inflam- 
matory language, and upheld to the hoi poUoi, the proletariat of 
Eussia, to take what belonged rightfully to them. All property 
belonged to the proletariat. It was the blood of their forefathers 
and fathers and brothers and themselves that had paid the price for 
it, and now they should take what belonged to them; and he closed 
his proclamation — I am only giving you this as I have it in my mem- 
ory — by saying, " Yes ; my house is my castle, and the Eussian work- 
ingman is going to defend it with a gun." 

Senator Nelson. Are Lenine and Trotsky Yiddish? 

Mr. Simons. Lenine is from a very fine old Eussian family, so we 
are told, and is intellectually a very able man. A fanatic, he was 
called the brains of this movement. Trotsky is a Jew. His real 
name is Leon Bronstein. 

Senator King. Why are they so bitter toward religion, especially 
the Christian religion ? 

Mr. Simons. There is a gentleman here in America who last night 
called on me. Dr. Harris A. Houghton, I think is his full name. I 
knew him out in Bay Side when I was the pastor of that church. He 
called on me last night. He is a captain in the United States Army. 
1 had not seen him for six years. He asked me whether I knew any- 
thing about the anti-Christian element in the Bolshevik regime. I 
said, " Indeed, I do. I do know all about it." He said, " Did you 
ever come across the so-called Jewish protocols?" I said, "Yes; I 
have had them." " I have a memorandum," he said, " and last win- 
ter after much trouble I came into possession of a book which was 
called ' Eedusti, anti-Christ.' " Now, Dr. Houghton in the mean- 
time had investigated this. He had come into possession of this 
book, which is quite rare now, because it was said that when the 
edition came out it was immediately bought up by the Jews in 
Petrograd and Moscow. That book reflects a real organization. 
That book is of some consequence. But the average person in official 
life here in Washington and elsewhere is afraid to handle it. 
Houghton says that even in his intelligence bureau they were afraid 
of it. 

Senator King. Tell us about the book. What is so bad about it? 
Is it anti-Christian? 


Mr. Simons. It is anti-Christian, and it shows what this secret 
Jewish society has been doing in order to iiiake a conquest of the 
world, and to make the Christian forces as ineffective as possible, 
and finally to have the whole world, if you please, in their grip; 
and now in that book ever so many things are said with regard to 
their program and their methods, which dovetail into the Bolshevik 
regime. It just looks as if that is connected in some way. 

Now, I have no animus against the Jews, but I have a great pas- 
sion for truth. If there is anything in it, I think we ought to know. 
The man who wrote it is considered a truth-loving man, a man held 
in the highest esteem by the authorities of the Russian Orthodox 

Senator King. Of course, that book or any teachings in that book 
would not appeal to the Letts or the Chinese coolies or the German 
soldiers, or to some who are controlling these Bolshevik mo^'ements. 
What I am trying to get at is. for my information, why Bolshevism 
is bitterly opposed to all sorts of religion or sacraments of the church — 
Christianity; because I suppose they recognize that Christianity is 
the basis of law and order and of orderly government. I was Avon- 
dering if you had discovered why they were so bitter against Chris- 
tianity, and if you found that all the Bolsheviks were atheistic or 
rationalistic or anti-Christian? 

Mr. Simons. My experience over there under the Bolsheviki 
regime has led me to come to the conclusion that the Bolsheviki 
religion is not only absolutely antireligious, atheistic, but has it in 
mind to make all real religious work impossible as soon as they can 
achieve that end which they are pressing. There was a meeting — I can 
not give you the date offhand ; it must have been in August, 1918^ 
held in a large hall that had once been used by the Young Men's 
Christian Association in Petrograd for their work among the Rus- 
sian soldiers. The Bolsheviki confiscated it ; put out the Y. M. C. A. 
In that large hall there was a meeting held which was to be a sort 
of religious dispute. Lunacharsky, the commissar of people's en- 
lightenment, as he was called, and Mr. Spitzberg, who was the com- 
missar of propaganda for Bolshevism, were the two main speakers. 
Both of those men spoke in very much the same way as Emma Gold- 
man has been speaking. I have been getting some of her literature, 
and recently I have been very much amazed at the same line of argu- 
mentation with regard to the attack on religion and Christianity 
and so-called religious organizations. 

Senator King. She, is the Bolshevik who has been in jail in this 
country and who will be deported as soon as her sentence is over ? 

Mr. Simons. I do not know as she will be deported. 

Senator King. I think she will be. 

Mr. Simons. She ought to be put somewhere where she can not 
issue any more of that literature. Lunacharsky and Spitzberg came 
out with pretty much the same things that she has been saying and 
printing. This is one of these theses : "All that is bad in the world, 
misery and suffering that we have had, is largely due to the supersti- 
tion that there is a God." 

Senator King. I noticed in j^esterday's paper that in their schools 
the children are being taught, wherever they have schools at all, 
positive atheism. Did you verify that? 


Mr. Simons. Lunacharsky, as the oiRcial head of the department 
of education, commissar of the people's enlightenment, said, " We 
now propose to enlighten our boys and our girls and we are using as a 
textbook a catechism of atheism which will be used in our public 
schools." Yet he had the audacity to say : " We are going to give all 
churches the same chance." And a priest replied to him, saying: 
"Then you ought not to put your catechism of atheism into the 

Senator King. Did you find, then, that atheism permeates the 
ranks of the Bolsheviki? 

Mr. Simons. Yes, sir. And the anti-Christ spirit as well. 

Senator Nelson. In this book that you refer to is there anything 
that goes to show that this Bolshevik government of Russia are sup- 
porting, directly or indirectly, this book of protocols ? 

Mr. Simons. Before answering that question I should like to see 
that translation, because I do not know how this thing has been done. 

(A pamphlet was handed to the witness.) 

Senator Nelson. You have seen the original book? 

Mr. Simons. Yes. Some very finely educated Russian generals of 
note have told me that they considered this as an authentic thing, 
and thej' say the marvelous part of it is that nearly all of that is 
being executed under the Bolsheviki. 

Senator King. Before you leave that, one other question: I have 
seen a number of translations — have seen the Russian and the trans- 
lations of what purported to be decrees or orders of some of the 
so-called Soviets, in effect abolishing marriage and establishing what 
has been called " free love." Do you know anything about that? 

Mr. Simons. Their program you will find in the Communist Mani- 
festo of Marx and Engel. Since we left Petrograd they have, if the 
newspaper reports are to be relied upon, already instituted a very 
definite program with regard to the so-called socialization of women, 
each woman from 18 to 45 being obliged to appear before the com- 
missariat and be given, nolens volens, a man with whom she shall 

Senator Nelson. In marriage? 

Mr. Simons. You can call it marriage or whatever you want to 
call it. I have seen a number of people over there under the bol- 
shevistic modus operandi. One was an American. He married a 
Russian girl. He was married in the commissariat and had to an- 
swer a; few questions and sign his name, and she signed her name, 
and among other questions that they asked were these : " How do 
you propose to be married?" "How many children do you 
propose to have ? " And things of that kind. And then later he 
came to our headquarters and we married the couple there in Rus- 
sian and English; and other cases have come under my observation. 
But what they are doing now I am not in a position to say, authorita- 
tively, except what has been in the papers. 

Senator King. Doctor, you have read and heard of and come in con- 
tact with the I. W. W^.'s of this country, and their destructive creed, 
their advocacy of the destruction of our form of go^vernment. I will 
ask you whether or not, from your observations of the Bolsheviki 
and the I. W. W., you see any difference? 


Mr. Simons. I am strongly impressed with this, that the Bolshe- 
viki and the I. W. W. movements are identical. Zorin told me, the 
commissar of the post and telegraph 

Senator Oveema^^ He had been an American? 

Mr. Simons. He had been eight years in New York, and knew 
some of our leaders here in our own Methodist Church. 

Maj. Humes. Had he been naturalized in this country? 

Mr. Simons. He had not; no. But he said he had been eight years 
in New York, and had been in religious disputes with some of our 
own leaders. .Zorin said to me, " We have now made our greatest 
acquisition, Maxim Gorky, who used to be against us, has come over 
to our side. He is now with us and has taken charge of our literary 
work. You know we have conquered Russia. We next propose to 
conquer Germany and then America." 

Senator Nelson. A big job. 

Senator King. Do you know to what extent they sent out their 
representatives in the surrounding countries of Europe, giving them 
money with which to carry on the propaganda of Bolshevism? 

Mr. Simons. We had heard again and again that they had been 
sending out sums of money into different parts of Europe, and when 
nobody except people of the diplomatic class were permitted to send 
out anything at all they were sending, day in and day out, from 
Petrograd over to Stockholm, and over to Copenhagen, large bags. 
Now, what those bags contained we can not say with any surety, 
but it is suspected that those bags contained very likely Bolshevik 
literature, and perhaps money, and perhaps also valuables which 
were being confiscated, because many of the rare old jewels and 
historic things which have been kept intact for decacles in the past, 
and so on, have disappeared and no one knows where they are. 

Senator King. One other question : Did you see any coordination, 
if I may use the term, between the German troops, after Germany 
sent troops into Eussia, and the Bolshevik troops, in the Bolshevik 
government ? That is to say, did you find that they worked together ? 

Mr. Simons. I was not in a position to follow that up, but I have 
heard that it is true. I have heard that from Eussian officers and 
members of the military mission ; and they used the same kind of 
literature in both camps. 

Senator King. Did you learn whether or not the Bolsheviki aided 
the Germans as against the allies, surrendered them their guns and 
munitions, and some of M'hich they had been accumulating in the 
Eussian Army to be used against the allies, including the United 
States? The point I am trying to get at is, did any of the munitions 
that the Eussian Army possessed when, through the action of the 
Bolshevists, the armies were disintegrated fall into the hands of the 
Gertaians ? 

Mr. Simons. That statement has been made. I do happen to know 
this, that came out while I was passing from Stockholm. A man 
who had been in the military mission at one time and was at last 
working with the war council at Petrograd, told me what they had 
discovered on a Eussian battleship in the Neva ; that the ship had the 
archives, so called, of the Eussian Navy, showing where the forts and 
fortresses were, where the mines were laid, and the whole naval posi- 
tion with regard to Eussia ; and that there was found a letter which • 


had been signed by Trotsky to the effect that under certain circum- 
stances the archives of the Russian Navy would be turned over to 
certain German officers. 

Senator King. Well, Doctor, I did not care for hearsay. What I 
had in mind was what you Imew personally. 

Mr. Simons. We knew that they were preparing millions of rubles 
for propaganda purposes in China, for instance, in India, and in 
other parts of the world. 

Senator King. South America? 

Mr. Simons. That appeared in their daily press. That was well 
known. They made no secret of that. 

Senator King. For the purpose of destroying all other govern- 
ments and bringing them under Bolshevism ? 

Mr. Simons. Yes, sir; and putting all other institutions out of 
commission that stood, if you please, for the class that they wanted 
to destroy. Lunacharsky and Spitzberg said in that meeting, and 
they sent it out in their proclamations, " The greatest enemy to our 
proletarian cause is religion. The so-called church is simplj^ a 
camouflage of capitalistic control and they are hiding behind it. and 
in order to have success in our movement we must get rid of thp 
church." Now, a frank statement like that seems to me to indicate 
their antireligious and anti-Christian animus. 

Senator King. Then, would this be a fair statement, from your 
knowledge of Bolshevism, that any persons in this country, mis- 
guided or sinister, who get up in theaters or other places on the lec- 
ture platform and advocate Bolshevism or defend it or apologize for 
it, are first approving the course of the Bolshevists in disintegrating 
the armies, to that extent making the cause of our Government and 
of the allies in defeating the central powers more difficult ? It would 
have that effect. The effect of their conduct would be an indorse- 
ment of their course? Secondly, an indorsement or appi*oval would 
be the indorsement or approval of a course of a party that stands for 
the grossest kind of materialism and atheism, and is against marriage, 
against the right of property, against the democratic form of gov- 
ernment, such as that which we have, and against the civilization 
which has been builded up under our form of government ? 

Mr. Simons. Yes, sir. 

Senator King. Bolshevism stands for all those things? Its apolo- 
gists are our enemies, enemies to our country and to our form of 
Government and to civilization? 

Mr. Simons. Whether they know that they are enemies, or they 
have no clear notion as to what the American spirit means, I think it 
is safe to say that they are mush-headed and muddle-headed. 

Senator Nelson. Are you acquainted with Albert Rys Williams, 
who has issued that pamphlet? 

Mr. Simons. I know him. 

Senator Nelson. Have you met him in Russia ? 

Mr. Simons. I have met him in Russia. 

Senator Nelson. Can you tell us about his activities and whom he 
associated with there? 

Mr. Simons. I do not know whether it would be wise for me to say 
what I did see. I am not sure whether he is an American citizen. I 
should first like to know whether he is an American citizen. A gen- 


tleman came up to me Avhen I spoke before the preachers' meeting in 
Philadelphia and said that he had learned that Williams was not an 
American. If he is not, then I am free to speak. 

Maj. Hu^iES. I maj' tell you that he was born in this country. Un- 
less he has renounced his citizenship he is an American citizen. 

Senator Overman. He is distributing tliese pamphlets on the East 
Side of New York where Bolshevism has been nourished ? 

Mr. Simons. Yes. 

Senator Overman. And you were approached l\y this Yiddish 
fellow with this catechism in his hand i 

Mr. Simons. AYell, I only wish to saj' this, that if he is an Ameri- 
can citizen I should like to show him the courtesy due one of my com- 
patriots, and I do not want to say anything in your presence until 
he has had a chance to speak for himself. 

Senator 0^■ERMAN. He may be able to speak for himself. 

Senator King. Was he associating Avith the Soviets over there, and 
making speeches for tliem ? 

Mr. Simons. We knew at that time that he was not only very sym- 
loathetic with the Bolsheviki, but he was helping them in many ways. 
We know that ; and he was embarrassing our own embassy and con- 
sulate in a very effective way. 

Senator Nelson. Perhaps we had not better go into it further now. 
but we .would be glad to hear you later on this subject. 

Senator King. Just one other question. I will ask you whether 
or not you noticed any difference in the personnel of the soviet after 
Lenine and Trotsky got control; that is to say, when Lenine and 
Trotsky came into poAver the Soviets existed, and as I understand it, 
many of the soA^ets Avere elected by the people and the representa- 
tives of the Soviets were fair representatives of the people. Now, 
AA'hat I am trying to get at is, after Lenine and Trotsky came in, 
whether or not the personnel of the Soviets changed. My informa- 
tion is, and I want to knoAv Avhether it is correct or not, that they 
would frequently send out from Petrograd and Moscoav their tools, 
and they would supersede the Soviets in various administrations and 
put in men who shared the views of Lenine and Trotsky. 

Mr. Simons. Yes ; that was a well-known fact. That came under 
our observation again and again. 

Senator King. So, then, Avhereas the soviet in the beginning might 
be called a fair representative of the people, noAv it is merely a tool 
of Lenine and Trotsky and the BolsheAdk administration ? 

Mr. Simons. That is correct. I happen to know that shortly be- 
fore I left Eussia fully 90 per cent of the peasants were anti-Bolshe- 
vik, and it Avas said by people qualified to judge of the situation over 
there that fully three-fourths of the workmen Avere anti-Bolshevik, 
and they were hoping that Bolshevism would soon be defeated. 

Senator Wolcott. I want to ask you. Doctor, if during the noon 
hour you will refresh your recollection and be prepared when we 
meet again to give us a list of all the commissars that you knoAV or 
did know, with their correct names and their assumed names and the 
nationality of each indicated ? Make up such a list, in so far as your 
memory can carry you. 

Mr. Simons. I think I have mentioned the names of those that I 
really know. 


Senator Wolcott. None outside of those? 

Mr. Simons. There were minor officials. 

Senator Wolcott. But you can add to them any others you may 
remember, as you think over it. 

(Thereupon, at 1.30 o'clock p. m., the subcommittee took a recess 
until 2.30 o'clock p. m.) 


The subcommittee met at 2.30 o'clock p. m., pursuant to the taking 
of recess, and at 2.40 o'clock proceeded with the hearing of Jtlr. 


Senator Overman. Doctor, I understood you to say that you be- 
longed to the Northern Methodist Church ? 

Mr. Simons. The Methodist Episcopal Church North. 

Senator Overman. As contradistinguished from the South? And 
you were head not only of your mission over there but you were the 
head of an educational institution, as I understand it? 

Mr. SuroNS. Yes, sir. 

Senator Overman. What was the name of that? 

Mr. Simons. We called it the English School of the American 
Church. That was one name, and we also had a theological seminary 
located there. 

Senator Overman. You had a regvdar curriculum and faculty ? 

Mr. Simons. Oh, yes. 

I hope that I will not be misunderstood with regard to the facts 
that came out in my testimony concerning the Jewish element in this 
Bolshevik movement. I am not anti-Semitic and have no sympathy 
with any movement of that kind, and some of my best friends in Eus- 
sia and America are Jews, and as I have been moving around making 
the matter clear before large audiences in churches and factories, 
many Jews have come up and have thanked me for having said what 
they regarded as true, and they assured me that the better class of 
Jews — and there are hundreds of thousands of them in America — 
would stand shoulder to shoulder with the Christians in fighting the 
red flag. 

Senator Overman. I understood that all the time you were speak- 
ing of what is known as the 

Mr. Simons. The apostate Jews. I only wish to be properly 
quoted, because I should not like to offend those fine American citi- 
zens who happen to be Jews, for they are just as good morally every 
way as we Christians are. 

Senator Overman. I think our newspaper reporters will make that 
understood in their reports, that you are not speaking of anybody but 
the apostates. 

Mr. Simons. There are hundreds of rabbis who will help us in 
this matter. I thank you for permitting me to clear that up. 

Senator Wolcott. Do you have any names to add to the list I asked 
you for? 

Senator Overman. There is a lady here who has a complete list of 
all those names. 



Senator Wolcott. And giving their nationality, and where they 
are from? 

Maj. Humes. I think so. 

Senator Wolcott. All right; we will get it from some other wit- 

Senator Overman. Did you see this list of names that Mrs. Sum- 
mers handed in? 

Mr. Simons. I have seen at least four different lists, and the first 
that came out I have in my possession here. This came out about 
August, 1917, and was widely circulated in Petrograd and Moscow 
[reading] : 

Real name. 

1. Chernoff Von Gutmann. 

2. Trotsky Bronstein. 

3. MartofE Zederbaum. 

4. Kamkoff Katz. 

5. Meshkoff Goldenberg. 

6. Zagorsky Krochmal. 

7. SuchanofC Gimmer. 

8. Dan Gurvitch. 

9. Parvuss Geldfand. 

10. Kradek Sabelson. 

Real name. 

11. ZinovyefE Apfelbaum. 

12. Stekloff Xachamkes. 

13. Larin Lurye. 

14. Ryazanoff Goldenbach. 

15. Bogdanoff .Tosse. 

16. Goryeff Goldmann. 

17. Z\yezdin Wanstein. 

18. Lieber Goldmann. 

19. Ganezky Furstenberg. 

20. Roshal Solomon. 

And then the last one did not change his name. That is the first 
list that we had. 

Senator O^'erman. Do j'Ou know how many of those came from 
America ? 

Mr. Simons. I do not. I have not investigated. 

Senator Wolcott. That is the list of men who were oiRcially con- 
nected with the Bolshevik government? 

' Mr. Simons. When this statement came out it was suggested that 
'• These are the men who are now working against the provisional 
Government with might and main and to bring in the Bolshevik 
rule." Other lists followed. 

Senator Overman. Why do you suppose they wanted to change 
their names? 

Mr. Simons. Soon after the outbreak of the war there were many 
people in Russia who had German names and who had them changed 
to Russian names, because- there was a strong anti-German move- 
ment, and they were very much discriminated against, and to have a 
German name was in fact to be insulted almost anywhere. It took 
some time before, on the whole, that feeling subsided. When the 
Russian revolution came along there was none of that to be seen any 
more, and some of these people took their names back, changed them 
back from the last form to the old German form ; but when the Bol- 
shevik movement came on we noticed that there were ever so many 
people who were Jews and had real Jewish names, who were not 
using them. They had assumed Russian names. Now, there may be 
two or three explanations given for that. One that has been offered 
now and then is as follows: Some of these men had two or three 
passports. You could get a passport if you needed it. from certain 
agents in Russia, and we were told that even in New York City there 
were certain people who were dealing in Russian passports. We 
knew that there were such people in different parts of Europe, es- 
pecially near the German-Russian border, and the Austro-Hungarian- 
Russian border, who made a regular business of selling or loan- 


ing out Eussian passports. A man would take a passport like that, 
and then he would use that particular name. 

Now, that is one explanation. Another explanation given is that 
among the real Eussians there would be an antipathy against the 
Jew, and a man having a real Jewish name would be discriminated 

Then there is another reason given by some of our friends who are 
always up in the literary world in Eussia — and one is a famous 
editor. These have said that perhaps the psychology of it could be 
stated thus : We want to make this thing appear as a purely Eussian 
thing, and if our real names, which ai'e nearly all Jewish names, ap- 
pear, it will militate against the success of our experiment in social- 
ism and government. People — millions of real Eussians — will say 
'• That tiling is not Eussian. The names all show that." 

Senator Overman. Did you know Trotsky? 

Mr. Simons. I did not know him. I have been quoted in the papers 
as having had conversations with Trotsky and Lenine, and having 
shown them our discipline. I do not know how that story ever be- 
came current, because I never said such a thing, never wrote it, and 
never dreamed it, but the newspaper men will sometimes imagine 

Senator Overman. Did you hear him speak? 

Mr. Simons. I have not. 

Senator Overman. He did not change his name? 

Mr. Simons. His name is Bronstein. 

Senator Nelson. He is Yiddish ? 

Senator Overman. Is he one of these Yiddish Jews? You call 
them Yiddish instead of Jews, and I want to distinguish. 

Mr. Simons. When we speak of the lower East Side, we are think- 
ing of hundreds of thousands of people who are speaking and read- 
ing several other languages as well as Yiddish. 

I might mention this, that when the Bolsheviki came into power, 
all over Petrograd we at once had a predominance of Yiddish procla- 
mations, big posters, and everything in Yiddish. It became very 
evident that now that was to be one of the great languages of Eiis- 
sia ; and the real Eussians, of course, did not take very kindly to it. 

Senator Nelson. Now, I should be glad to have you describe the 
Bolshevik plan and system of government, their scheme and plan of 
government, and as they proclaimed it and outlined it to the people. 
This is the second time I have asked it. 

Senator King. I want to ask, for my own information, do you 
mean as they idealize it or as they apply it ? 

Senator Nelson. Both. I want it so far as the written documents 
are concerned, and as they apply it, both. 

Mr. Simons. So far as the mechanical part of their government 
is concerned, I think they have been quite consistent in carrying out 
that end ; and as far as their proclamations have been concerned, we 
regret to say that they not only consistently carry most of them out 
but put in a lot more than was bargained for, if you please, and to 
that extent that all kinds of atrocities and cruelties were committed 
under the authority of this or that decree or proclamation. 

Senator Nelson. What I mean is, what is the plan and scheme 
of government that they offer to the people ? Outline their constitu- 


Mr. Simons. It is, as you have seen in most of the papers here, a 
government that is to be, first, last, and all the time, predominantly 
a government of the industrial workers. It is to be a government 
of the so-called " workmen's councils," and it is a government of 
the proletariat. ISIany of their phrases they have taken from the 
communist manifesto of March, and one in particular, " a dictator- 
ship of the proletariat."' A Bolshevik official would be asked, " Well, 
how about liberty?" The chances are that he would answer as 
Lenine and Trotsky did on several occasions, '' We do not believe in 
liberty. We believe in the dictatorship of the proletariat." Now, 
when I ha^ e mentioned that, Senator, I have given you, if you please, 
the heart of their government scheme, and everything moves around 

The other part is quite, to mj' way of thinking, of little conse- 
quence — the machinery. They have what they call 'the soviet govern- 
ment, built up on the lines of a social democratic representation, 
excluding, of course, everybody that is not Bolshevik. Or if he is not 
Bolshevik, if he consefits to work with them and to just submerge his 
own political opinions, well and good. He can hold office. In fact, we 
know tliat right in Petrograd and Moscow there were hundreds of 
men, scores of them, like myself, who were not Bolsheviks, that had 
been in certain ministries under the old regime, and they had con- 
tinued under the provisional government, and in order to save their 
own lives and the lives of their families and to have food and com- 
fort and what not, and be protected, they remained in office, although 
for a time some of them had held out in wliat was called sabotage. 
I knew some of these men and some of the things that we were able 
to do. Favors that-Avere shown us as an American institution were 
made possible through men who were anti-Bolshevik, but were in 
the Bolshevik government; and if you will allow me to go off 
on a tangent — it has come to my mind while I am speaking at 
random — some of these men have told me, "We are staying in 
office in the hopes that one of these days Bolshevism will weaken and 
we shall be able to play the Trojan horse trick. They still had the 
hope that something like that would happen — either the allies would 
come in and do something or something else would happen — and then 
they would be there. As a matter of fact, one of the greatest men of 
Kussia, with whom I have had a good deal to do — he was formerly 
an editor of the journal that was considered semiofficial — told me 
shortly before I left, " Strange to say, I have been trying to get to 
Kiev all these weeks, and I have had to go through more red tape 
than under the old regime, and in their so-called department for in- 
vestigating the character of the applicant, I found the same officials 
seated at the desks as under the old regime. I recognized them and 
they recognized me and they smiled." 

Now, they were not Bolsheviks -at all. I knew it. I had occasion 
to get a certain permission prior to leaving Russia, and it was after 
the regular hours and I rushed into that one ministry and. lo and 
behold, I found one of the most active of the anti-Bolslieviks holding 
a prominent position there, and he said, "Why, I will get that 
through for you," and he did. He said, " You know I am not Bol- 
shevik. I have been trying all these months to get out of Eussia." 
So there are hundreds of them. 


Senator OvEEistAN. What is the character of the nionev thev issue 
there ? 

Mr. SiMoxs. They have jiow been issuing hirgelv small currency, 
which is stamps. That [indicating] is a 1-kopeck stamp. On the 
other side it says, " To be used on a par with metal money." Then 
they have what they call " kerenki," little bits of paper' about an 
inch and a half or 2 inches square, without any registration num- 
ber, simply " 20," and then a little .statement to the effect that it 
is to be honored as legal tender, and then the other denomination is 
" 40 " — stamped 20 rubles and 40 rubles kerenki. It became almost 
valueless and the people would not accept them any more. 

Perhaps, Senator Overman, the committee would like to know 
what happened to us as we tried to get over the border, with regard 
to our money. The ruling of the Bolshevik government Avas that 
no one leaving Eussia. even though he were a foreigner, had a right 
to take more than 1,000 rubles with him. The old money had largely 
disappeared, but still could be bought at a premium of 10 rubles on 
a hundred. So a couple of weeks before we left 1,000 rubles of the 
old money would cost 1,100 rubles. 

Senator Kixg. That is the other way, is it not ? 
Mr. SiMOKS. Xo; wait a second; it was 20 rubles on a hundred. 
So I bought 1,000 rubles of old Russian money, Catherine bills, 
those famous old bills with Catherine's portrait invisible — you would 
have to hold it up to the light and then you could see it; they are 
very rare now, but by paying a premium of 20 rubles you could get 
them — I bought 1,000 rubles' worth and paid 1,200 rubles in kerenki. 
Also for my sister I tried to get the same amount. When we reached 
the Russian-Finnish border, we were held up by a Bolshevik official, 
who took out his own pocketbook, opened it, and began to count 
out in kerenki 2,000 rubles. They made a very thorough search of my 
sister and myself, such as had never been made under the provisional 
government, or even under the old regime, and they discovered that 
we had this amount. They wanted me to sign up on certain blanks, 
and what not, and when they discovered that we had 2,000 rubles of 
good old Russian money the officer began to count out the kerenki 
and said to us, " You can not take out that old money. That is 
against the law." I said to him, " Is not that regular Russian 
money ? " " Yes, it is ; but we can not let you take it out, and here 
you have 2,000 in kerenki.'' I looked at him — he was a young man 
about 20 or 21, and looked like a rogue — and I said, " Young man, 
I have been told by Zorin, the Commissar of the Post and Telegraph, 
that if any disagreeable things happened to me on the border, I might 
telephone or telegraph him and he would straighten things out." He 
then grew pale, and telephoned to a gentleman higher up, who was 
on the next floor, and said that he had a difficult case here, and 
this was an Ameiican clergyman who had 2,000 rubles in Russian 
money, which he said he could not take out, but then this clergy- 
man had said that Zorin was going to come to his assistance if there • 
was any trouble; and quick as a flash he took back his kerenki and 
he says, " You can have your money." 

Senator Ovebman. How much in our money is this stamp ? 
Mr. Simons. The Russian ruble when h.A. wc were there was worth 
10 cents. We could get 10 rubles for $1. 
85723—19 10 


Senator Xelson. In normal times how much was it I 

]Mr. SiMuNs. A ruble was abont 51 cents, so we roughly speak of a 
half a cent for a kopeck. 

Senator Xelson. There are 100 kopecks in a ruble '? 

Mr. SuroNS. Yes. 

Senator Xelson. A ruble is in round numbers a half a dollar? 

Mr. SiiiONs. Yes. It is now worth about 10 cents or less. 

Senator Overmax. How much is that in our mone}', that kopeckf 

Mr. SiJioNS. Well, that would be about one-twentieth of a cent. 

Senator King. The Bolshevik government has issued a large 
amount of paper money, has it? 

Ml'. SijioNs. Yes; very much. 

Senator King. Going into the billions of rubles ? 

]Mr. SiJioNs. Yes. sir. 

Senator Overjian. Is it a misdemeanor or felonj- not to take that 
money? Suppose a man declines to take it? 

]Mr. Simons. Yes; they have decrees, I understand, to that effect. 
The peasants got so disgusted with them that they would not t.ike 
them any more. But it was no use ; they were obliged to, and that of 
course put up the prices of commodities very much, a pound of but- 
ter selling for a hundred rubles. 

Senator Wolcott. Was there any attempt made by the leaders of 
this Bolshevik movement to spread in a systematized waj' these 
immoral ideas to which you referred this morning ? 

Mr. SiJioxs. It came under mj' observation that often in an 
avowed way, quite a self-evident way, immoral forces were being 
encouraged. I will try to be guarded in my remarks, knowing that 
there are ladies here. 

Senator Overman. Had we not better take that question up later 
and ask the ladies to retire ? 

Senator Wolcott. The doctor knows what he wants to say and 
he can say it. 

IMr. Simons. Let me use a concrete case. I will try to say the 
thing in a way that will not be offensive to anybody. A few days 
before I left, the president of our Ladies' Aid Society, a scholarly 
woman who has been a teacher for more than 25 years in one of the 
famous imperial institutions, called on me. I will not give you the 
name of the institute because I would like to reserve that for some 
other occasion, as I do not want this to get into the press and back to 
Russia. She said^ bursting into sobs, " You know what a fine big 
building we have. I want you to tell the women of America this," 
she said with much emotion, as she buried her face in her hands. 
'• I am sorry I lived to witness all this." I said. " This is so distress- 
ing to you that you had better not try to tell me. Write it out and 
send it to me some time." But she said, '" No ; I must tell you." She 
said, " On the first floor of our spacious institute, which used to be 
a palace, you know those large rooms that we have on the first floor. 
These Bolshevik officials have put hundreds of red soldiers, sailors, 
and marines of the red army and the red navy and given orders that 
in the other half of the same floor the girls of our institute should 
remain, girls who are from 12 to 16 years." This affected her so 
much that she burst out into tears. " I wish I had died before I 
witnessed all this. But I want you to tell the women of America." 


Senator Wolcott. Just a moment. That was not the doing of 
just an irresponsible crowd of soldiers, or of a soldier mobi That 
was the arrangement, do I imderstand you tc]oay, of the Bolshevik 
officials ? ' 

Mr. Simons. That came under their admiiiistration. 

Senator King. Of course, that meant that these poor girls were 
left to the brutal lust of the red guards ? 

Mr. Simons. You can draw your own conclusions. 

Senator King. Was there any doubt about that, that it was the 
purpose of it ? 

Mr. Simons. I have seen so much of it that I would have to say 
yes to what you ask. 

Senator King. Is there any doubt of it? 

Mr. Simons. No doubt in my mind. I am a little distressed here 
because of the presence of ladies. 

Senator King. You are stating it in a proper way. There is noth- 
ing improper in stating that you have observed brutality and 

Mr. SiJioNS. They are the dirtiest dogs I have ever come across in 
my 4.5 years. They are so nasty that I can not find words to express 
mj feelings. Some people have asked me if I was not exaggerating, 
and I tell them no, to go over there and see with their own eyes. 
Some of our own people are there as witnesses. 

Well, she then went on and said, " But that is not all. The other 
day the assistant of Lunacharsky, who was the Commissar of the Peo- 
ple's Enlightenment, happened to be with a group of our girls from 
our institute in a movie on the Nevski Prospect, and he turned 
around to those little girls of 12 and 15 and 16 years and said, ' Lit- 
tle girls, where are your bridegrooms? ' And they flushed and said, 
' We have no bridegrooms.' ' Why don't you go on the Nevski Pros- 
pect and do as the prostitutes are doing and get yourself one ? ' " 

Excuse me for repeating these words. 

Senator King. As far as I am concerned, I think that individual 
acts would be material onljr as they reflect the conduct of the whole 
organization. I would not want to blame the Bolsheviki for the 
misdeeds of any individuals. If they are the acts of the individuals 
it would not be right to blame the Bolsheviki for that, but if those 
acts are the acts of the entire organization, or supported by the 
organization, that would be relevant. Do you get the distinction ? 

Mr. Simons. All right. I can only give you concrete examples. 
The tenor of the whole regime, of course, has been quite immoral. 
There is no getting away from that. 

Senator King. Well, to be frank, do the Bolshevik guards and the 
Bolshevists, the males, rape and ravish and despoil women at will ? 

Mr. Simons. They certainly do. We happen to know that the 
Lett regiment which Trotsky has been courting assiduously for 
months refused to go to the front, and remained near the Tsarskoe 
Selo Vogzal, or railroad station, and were there living on the fat 
of the land, and the sanitar for that regiment — I will not mention 
his name as he was a personal friend of mine and I must not get 
him into trouble — reported these things to me, and he said that when 
there was a scarcity of bread in town — many of us had not had 
bread for weeks — they were having 2 pounds a day, three days l)?fore 


Trotskj' came, and they,' were told. " You will also have pancakes, 
2 pounds of bi'ead arday. and extra flour; and then when Trotslrp 
comes there is lioino- tf be an extra celebration," and they did have it. 
And then he said " Everythini;- in Petrograd belongs to you." I hate 
to say it, but their boast was that they could have all the women they 
wanted, and they could break into the houses with impunity. 

.Senator Ki>(;. Did they pay the soldiers large sunis of money to 
keep them in the army I 

Mr. SiJio^'S. The reds were being given an extra wage. I under- 
stand, and were shown extra favors. 

Senator King. Senator Wolcott asked you about their propaganda. 
Do j'ou know what efforts they made to extend their propaganda 
into other countries '. 

ilr. Simons. The statement was made again and again and vouched 
for by people of high standing in Russia and over in the Scandi- 
navian countries, to the effect that down in Leipzig they were printing 
Russian money for the Bolshevik government. I have not been able 
to get any substantiation for that. But I got this from a man who 
was in the military mission of one of the allies, and he said that 
10,000,000 rubles had been printed in Leipzig by order of the 
Bolshevik government, for progapanda purposes. 

Senator King. Do you know of people who were in Russia going 
into other countries and engaging in Bolshevik progapanda? For 
instance, John Reed; do you know of his having been there? 

Mr. Simons. Yes. 

Senator King. Do j^ou know whether he came to the United States 
and engaged in Bolshevik propaganda ? 

Mr. Simons. I have not investigated that. 

Senator King. Did he come to the United States ? 

Mr. Simons. He came to the United States; yes. 

Senator King. Do you Imow a woman who calls herself ^liss 
Bryant? She was his wife? 

Mr. Simons. I know of her. 

Senator King. Was she in Russia, and did she and Mr. Reed asso- 
ciate with the Bolshevists? 

Mr. SiitoNs. They were reported to be very close to them, and 
were spending a great deal of time in the Smolny Institute. 

Senator King. Did you know that? 

Mr. Simons. That was generally known in Petrograd. 

Senator King. How long did you know of their being there? 

Mr. Simons. I could not answer that off-hand, because I did not 
have any particular interest in following them up, and did not know 
that they would figure in this thing. 

Senator King. Is she the woman who spoke in Poll's Theater under 
the name of Miss Bryant ? 

Mr. Simons. I understand she is the same woman. 

Senator King. Do you know whether Mr. Reed is still in this 
country ? 

Mr. Simons. I understand so. 

Senator King. Major, he is under indictment, is he not? 

Maj. Humes. Yes, sir. 

Senator King. He was there connected with the Bolsheviki? 


Mr. Simons. He was persona grata with the Bolshe\'ik .govern- 
ment to the extent that they wanted to make him their representative 
here in Kew York. 

Senator King. By the genuine Americans who were there, Avas lie 
regarded as an American or aa a Bolshevik? 

Mr. Simons. As a Bolshevik. We had a number of those Bolshe- 
vik sympathizers there, and we thought ot them as — let me use the 
proper expression — mush-headed and muddle-headed. 

Senator Overman. Do you know of anybody being sent to this 
country by the Bolsheviki for propaganda purposes ? 

Mr. Simons. I have no direct proof. 

Maj. Humes, Doctor, do you know whether or not any of these 
Americans were exercising the rights of Russian citizenship and are 
exercising the rights of Russian citizenship under the constitution 
of Russia? 

Mr. Simons. I can not speak as an official investigator, but it has 
been brought to my attention that some of those men who were over 
there had Russian passports and also American passports. 

Maj. Humes. I call your attention to a section of the constitu- 

Senator King. You mean the Bolshevik constitution? 

Maj. Humes. The Bolshevik constitution. [Reading:] 

Basing Its actions upon tlie idea of solidarity of tlie toilers of all nations, tlie 
R. S. F. S. R. grants all political rights of Russian citizenship to foreigners, who 
live upon the territory of the Russian Republic, are engaged in productive occu- 
pations and who belong either to the working class or to the peasant class that 
do not exploit the labor of others. 

Is that the provision of the constitution that makes it possible for 
American citizens to go over there and participate in the Russian 
Government as Russian citizens and exercise all the rights of citi- 
zenship ? 

Mr. Simons. I should say so, without being unfair to any of my 
compatriots. One case was brought to my attention within the last 
six months, when an American was seriously thinking of becoming 
a citizen of the ^o-called Bolshevik Russia. I do not want to mention 
his name, though. 

Senator Wolcott. You do not know it as a matter of fact? Of 
course, ii you know as a matter of fact you would be glad to tell 
his name, I suppose. 

Mr. Simons. If it is desired, I could tell you in executive session 
who he was. 

Senator Wolcott. If I knew that there was such a man who was 
desiring to acquire citizenship with that outfit, I should be glad to 
tell it. If you are only informed of it, that is another matter. 

Mr. Simons. I will tell you in executive session who it was. 

Senator Kiia!. Then, if we determine it is proper for the record, 
it will go in. 

Mr. Simons. I have pretty good proof that there was some con- 

Maj. Humes. Is there any formality required in order to acquire 
Russian citizenship? The constitution automatically, apparently, 
forces it on residents in Russia. 

Mr. Simons. I have not seen the operation of that, at all, and do 
not know the modus operandi in actual operation. 


Senator Kix<;. You kne^v Mr. Albert Rhys Williiinis there, who 
spoke with IMrs. John Reed ? 

Mr. Simons. Yes. 

Senator King. Do you know whether he was participating in any 
meetings Mith the Bolshe-^iki ? 

Mr. Simons. Yes, he was; he was taking part in their meetings 
there. He -nas reported first in the jpapers as having taken part. 

Senator King. Was he making speeches in favor of Bolshevism, in 
their meetings, or combating their views ? 

Mr. SiJioNs. Certainly not combating. He was heart and soul with 
them. I met him a number of times in our embassy and also in our 
consulate. When I happened to express myself in a very strong way 
against the Bolsheviki, he was on the other side. 

Senator King. Defending them? 

Mr. SiJiONS. Speaking in very tender terms of them. 

Senator King. Do you know how long he associated with them 
there ? 

Mr. SiJiONs. I think he was associated with them almost from the 
incipiency of that movement. 

Senator King. Did he pretend to be a Red Cross representative ? 

Mr. Simons. No; he Avas a journalist. But there was another Wil- 
liams who re^Dresented the Christian Herald. I should not like to 
have him taken for this one. He spoke in our church once. He is a 
fine Christian gentleman, 100 per cent American. I hope no one will 
confuse the two. 

Senator King. Did Mr. Albert Rhys Williams tell you that when 
he left there he was coming back to the United States, or did you learn 
from him in any way that he was to return to the United States? 

Mr. SiJiONS. The last time I met him was in the embassy, and 
things Mere then topsy turvy. My recollection is that he was going 
back to the front to investigate things. That is as I recall. 

Senator King. Do you know when he left ? 

Mr. Simons. I do not. 

Senator King. Do you know about his landing in San Francisco? 

Mr. Simons. I do not. 

Senator King. Do you know the character of literature that he 
brought with him? 

Mr. Simons. I understood that lie brought some literature over 
which was partly in Russian, partly in English, and it was Bolshevik 
literature, supporting the soviet government. 

Senator Overman. Did Raymond Robins participate in any of 
these Bolshevik meetings? 

Mr. Simons. I do not know. He is spoken of very highly by the 
Bolshevik leaders. 

Senator Wolcott. They liked him. did they? 

Mr. Simons. Well, judging from some of the things said concern- 
ing him, he was reputed to be the best American of all. 

Senator King. Give the names of some other Americans over there 
that you know of who affiliated with the Bolsheviki. 

Mr. Simons. I do not know whether it would be fair to answer the 
question offhand, because of that expression " affiliated." 

Senator King. I will withdraw that question. I would not want 
to do any injustice to anybody. Do you know of any Americans over 


there now, or those that may not be Americans but -who are now in 
here apologizing for or speaking for or carrying on any propaganda 
for the Bolsheviki ? 

Mr. Simons. I reserve my answer to that for executive session, for 
1 should not like to be quoted as having 

Senator Overman. We have had some trouble about giving names. 
Perhaps we had better reserve it for an executive session. 

Senator King. I want to say tliat, as far as I am concerned, these 
hearings shall be absolutely public, and whatever you tell us, I would 
feel that it ought to be made public after you have verified it, because 
everybody ought to know just what this committee does. But I am 
speaking for myself. I withdraw the question now. 

Maj. Humes. With reference to the treaty between the Bolshevik 
government and the German Government, was tliat treaty ever 
published in full in the Bolshevik papers, so that the people of 
Eussia could know all of the facts in connection with that treaty I 

Mr. SiMOxs. The statement was made again and again by well- 
informed people in Russia that the treaty had not been fully pub- 
lished, ancl that the Eussian translation which came out was a very 
poor piece of work. And then it was said that another translation 
would be made. But even then it was an open question whether or 
no the full treaty had been made public. It always came out that 
Lenine and Trotzky had kept certain things secret. What those 
things were we never learned. 

Maj. Humes. Do you know the capacity in which Albert Ehys 
Williams came to this country from the Bolshevik government? 
What is his capacity to-day in this country ? 

Mr. Simons. I could not add any word from personal informa- 
tion, but from what I have found in the press and what I have heard 
from certain people who claim to know — I have been investigating 
this thing — he is a self-confessed representative of Lenine and 
Trotsky in this country. 

Maj. Humes. And came over to organize a representative informa- 
tion bureau in this country, did he not, in behalf of the Bolshevik 
government ? 

Mr. Simons. I understood that he had work of that nature to do. 

Senator Overman. Is that the man who spoke here? 

Maj. Humes. Yes. 

Senator Nelson asked you a few moments ago with reference to 
the form of government, in regard to the representation. Is the 
representation in their Soviets and their several bodies proportioned 
uniformly over the coimtry, or do they discriminate in different 
districts ? 

Senator Nelson. He has not answered my question, yet. 

Maj. Humes. No; I realize that. Senator. 

Mr. Simons. Why, it came out again and again that they were 
putting in dummy delegates and controlling certain places by send- 
ing down their own Bolshevik agitators, and what not, and thus 
suppressing an anti- Bolshevik movement, which seemed quite immi- 
nent in certain parts of the so-called Bolshevik country. We hap- 
pen to know that there were villages in and around Petrograd and 
Moscow — I have talked with a lot of people who had instant infor- 
mation on this — where the people were anti-Bolshevik, but that the 


Bolshevik authorities had a way of manipuhiting things so that 
everything would look, at least on paper, as if the Bolsheviki were 
ruling everything in sight. But, as a matter of fact, there were 
scores of villages which would not even let a Bolshevik official come 
into the precincts of the village. They had machine guns on either 
end of the main road which would go through the village. Now, I 
have spoken with people who came from the villages. "We had 
churches in some. They said that they had guards watching day and 
night, and the moment a Bolshevik hove in; sight the}- would 
kill him. And they had a regular system by which they were keep- 
ing the Bolsheviki away. 

Senator King. As a matter of fact, up to the present moment the 
Bolshevik government is merely a military dictatorship under the 
rule of Leniiie and Trotsky? 

Mr. Simons. Yes. And they are using their dictatorship to put 
the proletariat in harmony with the communist manifesto in order 
to please the hoi polloi. 

Maj. Humes. The point that I was raising is, is it not a fact 
that the representation in the old Russian soviet was based on 1 to 
each 125,000 people in the cities, while the representation is 1 to 
25,000 people in the provincial districts and the less thickly popu- 
lated districts? 

Mr. Simons. I have not gone into that. 

Senator Xelson. Well, the Russian farmers are settled in villages, 
mostly ? 

Mr. Simons. Yes; as a rule. 

Senator Xelson. And their village communities, or mirs, as I be- 
lieve they call them. 

Mr. Simons. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And they own the land, do they not; the mir 
owns the land? 

^Ir. Simons. Yes; and it is parceled out. 

Senator Nelson. Parceled out for use from time to time? 

!Mr. Simons. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Now, each of those mirs is supposed to have its 
own soA'iet system of government, to elect a local soviet council, is 
it not? 

]Mr. Simons. That is the scheme. 

Senator Nelson. That is part of the scheme. And the same thing 
takes place in cities or wards or sections of cities, in proportion to 
population ? They Iuia'c also local Soviets I 

Mr. Simons. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And these local so\iets send representatives to 
the general soviet assembly. 

Mr. Simons. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And that constitutes the soviet government? 

Mr. Simons. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. A good share of the farmers or the peasants, we 
Diight call them, are not in this soviet government; that is, I mean, 
the Bolshevik soviet government? 

Mr. Simons. I can not tell you what percentage of the villages are 
Qot talring part in that Bolshevik government, in the Bolshevik 


territory. But it is generally stated bj' people Avho know something 
about the Russian situation, and nearly all of us Americans who 
came out about the same time are a unit in saying, that fully 90 pvr 
centof the peasants are anti-Bolshevik. From that you would con- 
clude that they would not' take part in the Bolshevik go\'ernment. 
And another statement made — I think 1 made it this morning — is that 
at least two-thirds of the Avorkmen are ant'i-Bolshevik. 

Senator Nelson". Noav. have not the anti-Bolshevik forces — and 
in that I include the Czecho- Slovaks, the sound Russians, and the 
English, and French, and the Japanese — have they not practical 
control of the Siberian railroad as far west as Perm — west to Omsk? 

Mr. Simons. Well, I am not qualified to tell you how things stand 
there to-day. I am not omniscient. But from what I have learned 
all these months, I judge that they do hold control there. 

Senator Nelson. Have you visited the southern part of Russia, 
the Ukrainian country? 

Mr. Simons. Not recently. It was almost impossible to get down 
there without having influence with the leaders of the Bolshevik 

Senator Nelson. Did they have control of things in the Ukraine? 

Mr. Simons. You had to get special permission to go down there. 
There were distinguished people who sat there for months and 
months waiting for permission. 

Senator Nelson. Is not that the heart of the Russian population 
along the vallej^s of the Dneiper and the Don, and their tributaries ; 
is not the heart of the Russian population confined to those regions — 
and the Volga — take the western rivers, the Dneiper, and then Kiev, ■ 
the capital of Ukrainia, which is situated on the Dneiper? 

Mr. Simons. I think it might be roughly stated so, yes. Some of 
them claim that the heart of the Russian nation is found in the Rus- 
sian church ; that is where the soul is. 

Senator Nelson. The spiritual heart. But I mean the rural heart. 
Is not that in the Black Belt? 

Mr. Simons. I should hate to make a sweeping assertion, because 
in normal times we have in Moscow 1,000,000 people, and in Petro- 
grad 2,000,000, and there, of course, you find hundreds of thou- 
sands of real Russians who represent, if you please, in a very real 
way the heart of Russia, and most of them at some time or another 
came from a village. 

Senator Nelson. You have never carried on your operations in 
southern Russia? 

Mr. Simons. No. 

Senator Nelson. In Kiev or Odessa? 

Mr. Simons. No. I have been down among the Molokanes, or 
milk drinkers ; I have been familiar with that section of the country. 
You could hardly call that the heart of Russia, although they are. 
patriotic Russians. There are hundreds of thousands of Stundists, 
or Molokanes, and tens of thousands of so-called German colonists, 
but I would not like to speak of the heart of Russia as being confined 
to any particular territory. 

Senator Nelson. But Little Russia was the center of the Slav race 
at one time, was it not ? 

Mr. Simons. Yes. 

154 BOLSHEVIK peopaga:n-da. 

Senator Xelson. They started from there, and that is the center 
of it. The capital was Kiev, was it not? 

Mr. Snioxs. That is the old historic capital. 

Senator Nelson. Have you ever been at Nijni Novgorod ? 

Mr. Simons. I have never been there. 

Senator Nelson. That is not a great ways from Moscow, on the 
upper Volga. 

Mr. Simons. I had to put off many of these things because of extra 
duties connected with our church during the great war. For almost 
six years I even have not been in America, and our bishop has not 
been over since the summer of 1913, so, of course, all those duties 
devolved upon me and I could not very well travel around. 

Senator Nelson. Then you are not able to say how all of tliat big 
southern part of Russia stands on this Bolshevik government? 

Mr. Simons. Except from certain reports. I happened to have some 
of my men down there and they wrote up and told me, and I might 
tell what came up from that section ; but there have been such kaleido- 
scopic changes taking place that what would hold true of September 
and October would not hold true of November and December, and 
might not hold true now. 

Senator Nelson. That is true. 

Mr. Simons. But I think it is safe to say that the Bolshevik area 
does not take in more than one-fourth of the real Russia. I think 
it is safe to say that. 

Senator Nelson. Does it take in anything of Russian Poland? 

Mr. Simons. Yes; I think it does; I think it takes all of that 
section there. I have not a map here, so of course, I can not go into 

Senator Overman. Do you know whether or not they are going 
on with their propaganda in England and Germany and France ? 

Mr. Simons. I have heard from men who are investigating that, 
with whom I have had long conferences in Stockholm and Chris- 
tiania, that very active propaganda is being carried on in England. 

Senator Nelson. Did you meet Mr. Leonard over there? He was 
connected with the consular service ? 

Mr. Simons. He was in Russia as one of the several secretaries of 
the Y. M. C. A., under Dr. Mott's supervision, and when the 
Bolshevik revolution came on, he and another Y. M. C. A. man by 
the name of Berry, I think, both went into the consular service. 
They were later arrested, and the reports we got were to the effect 
that they were imprisoned for almost three months, and recently 
they have been released and have returned to America. 

Maj. Humes. Senator, for your information — you wei'e asking 
about the propaganda — here is a translation of one of the orders 
of the Bolshevik government on the question of propaganda. This 
is the official order published December 13, 1917 [reading] : 

Order for the appropriation of 2,000,000 rubles for ttie requirements of 
the revolutionary internationalist movement. 

Whereas the soviet authority stands on the ground of the principles of 
the international solidarity of the proletariat and the brotherhood of the 
workers of all countries, and whereas the struggle against the war and im- 
perialism can lead to complete victory only if conducted on an international 


Tlie Council of Peoples Commlssai-ies consider it absolutely necessary to 
take every possible means including expenditure of money, for the assistance 
•of the left internationalist wing of the workingman movement of all countries 
■whether these countries are at war or in alliance with Russia or are maintain- 
ing a neutral position. 

To this end the Council of the Peoples Commissaries orders the appropria- 
tion for the requirements of the revolutionary internationalist movement to 
be put at the disposal of the foreign representatives of the Coinniissariat of 
Foreign Affairs, ten million rubles. 

(Signed) Xenine. 


Senator Overman. It would seem from that order that they ^^'ere 
using propaganda for the entire world. 

Senator Nelson. Did you say you have any other lists besides the 
one that you have there? 

Mr. Simons. No; not with me. 

Senator Nelson. Could you supply that other list? 

Mr. Simons. I will look over my papers and see if I can find it. 

Senator Nelson. And you can send it in to the chairman, if you 
can find it. 

Senator Overman. Do you know if any official of the Government 
of this country is Bolshevik? Or would you rather not answer as 
to that except in executive session? 

Mr. Simons. I have no proof. I think in executive session 1 might 
giv& you some information which would be helpful, at least in a way. 
If you could find out whether any men are out and out against the 
Ted flag, and if they are not, why you can form your own conclusions. 

Senator Nelson. You mean out and out for the red flag? 

Mr. Simons. I put it in the negative way. You can find out if they 
are really against the red flag, and if they are not, I have nothing 
more to sav*. 

Senator Overman. Are there any I. W. W.'s in Russia? 

Mr. Simons. I understand that quite a number of those men who 
came over to Petrograd soon after Trotsky arrived had been identi- 
fied with the I. W. W. here in America, and it is remarkable that a 
good deal of the literature which I have seen among the Bolsheviki 
in Russia is like the I. W. W. literature that I find here in English, 
and their tactics are pretty much the same. Take, for instance, the 
I. W. W. song, To Fan the Flames of Discontent, and so on. Take 
this red-flag hymn — possibly you are familiar with it — also The In- 
ternationale, as they call it; have practically all of that in Rus- 
sian, too. And I find that there is quite a similarity between the 
Bolshevik movement and the I. W. W. 

Senator Overman. How many verses are there in that red-flag 

Mr. Simons. The Red Flag? Shall I read it? 

Senator Overman. I wish you would. 

Mr. Simons. It is sung to the tune of Maryland, My Maryland, ar- 
raxiged by Finstenberg. The words are by James Connell. [Reading :] 


The Red Flag. 

By James Co-nxell. 

The workci-s' flng Is deepest red. 
It shrouded eft our martyred dead; 
And ere their limbs grew stiff and eold 
Tlieir life-bhxid dyed its every fold. 


Then raise the scarlet standard high; 
Beneath its folds we 11 live and die, 
Thougli cowards flinch and traitors sneer, 
We'll lieep the red flag flying here. 

Loolv 'round, tlie Frenchman loves its blaze, 
The sturdy (Jerman chants its praise ; 
In il<isr(iw's vaults its hymns are sung. 
(_'liir:ig(i swells its surging song. 

It waved above our infant might 
When all ahead seemed dark as night ; 
It witnessed many a deed and vow. 
We will not change its color now. 

It suits ti 1-day the meek and base. 
Wliose minds are ttxed on pelf and place; 
To cringe beneath tlie rich man's frown. 
And haul that sacred emblem down. 

With heads uncovered, swear we all, 
To bear it onward till we fall ; 
Come dungeons dark, or gallows grim. 
This song shall be our parting hymn ! 

Maj. Humes. Doctor, have you any information as to any attempt 
or attempts being made in this country to form so-called Soviets? 

Senator Nelson. You mean in this country? 

Maj. Humes. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Simons. Only as I have found articles in the newspapers, and 
have gotten hold of some of their literature. You -will find quite a lot 
of literature published under the auspices of the Eand School of So- 
cial Science in New York and kindred organizations, in English and 
Eussian.both. The Communist ^Manifesto, which is the official pro- 
gram of the Bolshe'S'iki. is being sold in Russian and English both. 
They have a little article here on the Old Red Flag, which goes to 
prove that the flag of the early Christians was a red flag, and what 
not, and then they have a Russian scene back here, pretty much the 
same kind of a scene that they have been sending over in Russia 
among the Bolshevikis, and this, I understand, is being used for 
propagandist purposes among the tens of thousands of Russian work- 
men in America. Then they have some pamphlets by Lenine and 
Trotzky in Russian. 

Senator Woucott. They are published, you say, by this Rand 
School of Social Science, put out by them? 

^Ir. Simons. They are sold there and some are published there. 
Others are published by the Socialist Literature Co., 15 Spruce Street, 
New York, and by a Russian newspaper in Xe-w York. 

Maj. HuJiEs. That is the paper that Trotsky was formerly con- 
nected with in this countrv ? 


Mr. Simons. I think so. 

Senator King. And he is a Bolshevist now ? 

Mr. Simons. Yes ; and a good deal of this literature is gotten out 
by Charles H. Kerr & Co., of Chicago. 

Senator King. Have you made any investigation to find out who 
is paying for them? 

Senator Nelson. We have just had that. They have appropriated 
2,000,000 rubles for this international propaganda. He just read 
here, while you were out of the room, that they had appropriated 
2,000,000 rubles for international propaganda. 

Senator Overman. They must have some agent who is getting out 
those pamphlets here, who represents that Government. 

Mr. Simons. They Avere printing, at the time of the early period 
of the Bolshevik regime, pamphlets on Bolshevism and the Soviet 
Government by Lenine and Trotsky, in English, in Petrogxad. That 
was in the winter of 1918. I have seen copies of that. 

Senator Nelson. I had a copy of it myself, sent to me almost a year 
ago, I think. 

Mr. Simons. And I understand from what they told me — I do not 
know how true it is — that John Eeed and Albert Williams helped 
to put these things into proper English. 

Senator King. Is Albert Williams this man you have already 
spoken of? 

Mr. Simons. Y&s. I can not vouch for that. I only have heard 

Maj. Humes. This morning you testified with reference to the 
terrorism as against the so-called bourgeois. Does not that terrorism 
apply to the peasant and working classes as well as to the bourgeois? 

Mr. Simons. In some instance; yes. Instances have been brought 
to our attention where there were groups of workmen who were anti- 
Bolshevik, and who were hoping to create a movement to overthrow 
the Bolshevik regime. They were promptly arrested, and what their 
punishment was we do not know, but there were at least two factions 
which figured in this thing again and again in Petrograd, even last 
summer, and it was hoped by certain people in Petrograd that they 
would succeed, and that other groups of workmen would join them; 
and then came, as the result of that, very drastic measures on the 
part of the Bolshevik leaders, and cases were brought to our atten- 
tion where often in homes of peasants that could be reached, and 
homes of workmen, they had to pay dearly. 

Senator King. You mean in suffering? 

Mr. Simons. Yes. 

Senator King. You. do not mean in money ? 

Mr. Simons. They had to pay dearly in suffering, in being ar- 
rested, and so on. 

Senator King. Were some of them killed? 

Mr. Simons. There have been instances on record where certain 
workpien and members of their families have been killed, but when 
these things were investigated, often we heard this kind of excuse 
given, " That man was guilty of disloyalty to his party, and that is 
why he was treated the way he was." 

Mai. Humes. In other words, they believed in the execution of 
so-called political offenders? 


Mr. Simons. Yes; they decidedly did. 

Senator Oveemax. Are there any courts left, there, to administer 
any laws ? 

Mr. Simons. Yes ; they had courts. I appeared before the court a 
number of times, when we could not get the workmen to shovel our 
snow away. We had the heaviest fall of snow, some of the old resi- 
dents of Petrograd said, that had ever been on record, so the officials 
in the local commissariat came around and said that if we did not 
have the snow shoveled away — we had a very big property there, 
and being on the corner, of course, we had twice as much as any 
other property would have on the block to shovel away — that if we 
did not have that snow shoveled away by a certain time on the fol- 
lowing day, we would be fined, let us sa)', 500 rubles, and before they 
had their proclamation out and what not, I was cited to court. 

The court was made up of a very silly looking workman and an 
insipid looking Red Guard, and the other man was as shy as a maiden 
of 16 Avho had just been kissed. I was brought before them, and 
they hardly knew how to ask any questions, but they at once said to 
me, " We cto not want to hear your testimony. You are a bourgeois. 
We want to hear what your dvornik says. So our dvornik had to 
tell the storji-, and the sum and substance of the testimony was that 
we had not been doing anything wrong, but the authorities had not 
been taking care of a certain gas light which, according to the Rus- 
sian system, had to be pumped out every day or water accumulated, 
and they had not taken the proper care of it, so there got to be quite 
a lot of ice around there, and they were going to hold me guilty for 
that, but the testimony we brought in showed they had not been 
doing their work properly, and then they felt shamefaced; but they 
ordered him into another room to see whether he would not give some 
testimony against that capitalist, but he stood his ground firmly, and 
came out and afterwards told me how they had subjected him to all 
kinds of questions, trying to get him to say something which would 
be unfair to me. He had received only kindness at my hands, and 
so, being a pretty fair sort of individual, he spoke the truth and 
nothing but the truth. Then, when he came out they again sat in 
session and told me that they would give me another chance to clean 
that snow away. 

Senator Nelson. That was a soviet court. 

Mr. Simons. A soviet court. I have been in other courts under 
the old regime, and they were very fine, scholarly men. 

Senator King. You stick to the facts. Doctor. 

]Maj. HuiNiES. Is it not the practice of these courts not to receive 
the testimony of the so-called bourgeois? 

]Mr. Simons. They are very much discriminated against. I have 
lieard that from a good many sources. 

Maj. Humes. Even in court their testimony is not received as the 
testimony of others? 

Mr. Simons. Yes ; that is quite true. I have talked with a number 
:)f men of our own American colony who have been brought to court, ■ 
and one happened to have a diamond ring, and that led to his 
jeing fined, as I remember. 10.000 rubles. If he had not had that 
ring, he says the chances are tliey would not have fined him. Pardon 
ne. Senator, I do not like to go into all these details, but von are put- 


ting questions to lue that bring up all kinds of things, and perhaps 
the things I cite may add a little light. 

Senator Overman. We are very glad to have you tell it in your <)\vu 
way, and you have thrown a great deal of light on the subject, Doc- 
tor, and we are very much obliged to you. 

Mr. Simons. I have not been able to get away from one thing, that 
there is being fanned constantly an antibourgeois feeling. You feel 
it as you go along the street. The saddest thing I have to relate is 
this. My sister was a rheumatic for almost four years. Soon after 
the Bolsheviki came into power she was trying to get from our place 
down to the next line, where there was a car line that would bring 
her to a certain part of the city, and the snow was about that deep 
[indicating] and she slipped and fell, and there were Russian girls 
from the, factory Avho came by and looked at her and used abusive 
language, and called her a bourgeois, and what not, and said, " Let her 
lie there," and what not, and my sister burst out into tears. She 
struggled again and again to get onto her feet. She said, as she came 
home, that she had ahvays felt that the Russian women were \ery 
sympathetic, but they \fere now so cruel, simply because she was 
dressed like a lady, and she struggled there for at least 10 minutes 
before she got out of that position. She came back and said it just 
distressed her so that they let her suffer. That is their temper, and 
in their press and in their proclamation it is the same old diabolical 
thing, class war, not only for Russia, but for the whole world, and be 
just as mean as you can to your fellow man, especially if he is dressed 
like a gentleman or lady. Now. if anybody has different testimony 
on those people, I submit they have not seen them in actual operation. 

Senator King. Would you say that that feeling permeated the 
peasants generally to any extent? 

Mr. Simons. The average peasant is one of the most lovable men 
you can meet anywhere in the M'orld. I want to tell you that I have 
not found a better type of man or woman than in the Russian vil- 
lages, and even among the workmen, of whom I knew thousands, 
and I always felt pretty safe with them until these Bolsheviki came 
in power. 

Senator King. Have they been able to eradicate that feeling of, I 
might call it unsophistication, and in a religious way mysticism, that 
predominates so much in the peasant's mind or life ? 

Mr. Simons. Well, they appealed, if you please, to the lower pas- 
sions and instincts, and they made promises to those people such as 
these. They would say, " Now, all the land is to be yours." For in- 
stance, there was timber on the estates of some of the titled people 
that we knew in the villages or near the villages outside of Petrograd. 
and they would say, " You can help yourself. You do not have to pay 
for it. You can have anything and everything you want. It is all 
vours now • it belongs to the people." That appealed to many of these 
ipeople; but then afterwards they came out with this kind of testi- 
mony as did hundreds of workmen who were left in charge of the 
factones without raw material or any money, and with the machinery 
broken " We oAvn everything, but we can not use it. We are worse 
off now than we were under the old system." 

Senator King. To what extent did the peasants commit atrocities 
upon the landowners in their immediate vicinities, and deprive owners 
of their homes and property ? 


]Mr. SnroNs. There have been ever m3 many ca-es rei^orted. and 
s(jme of them by people of my own acquaintance, who have had large 
estates, and after they had told me all the-e things, of the depreda- 
tions committed by these infuriated peasants who had been indoc- 
trinated by Bolshevism, they ^aid. '' "We know those peasants are 
going to become sober minded against Socialism, because two or 
three have come back and said, ' We repent of all ive ha-\ e done. 
AVhat can we do to show you that we still love you '.' " 

Senator King. To what extent have the prelates and ecclesiastics 
influenced or lost influence over the peasants? 

Mr. Suroxs. I am sorry to say that the average Russian pi-iest 
never had the respect or even the affection of the i^eople at large. 
There was a sort of feeling against them. I hope I am not saving 
anj'thing that will be usecl by people who are against the Eussian 
church. I am very friendly toward that institution. Her dignita- 
ries have sent greetings to us and our bishops, and we have sustained 
ideal fraternal relations with that church. As you know, there is a 
movement on foot to bring about some kind of a union between the 
Russian orthodox church and the Methodist Episcopal Church in 
the United States, and Avhile I preface my remarks with all that, 
\et the fact is this, that the priests of the Russian Orthodox churcli 
on the whole have not been respected, and in many cases ha^"e been 
maligned and abused, and especially since the BolsheA'iki have come 
into power. They have found that they could take this prejudice 
on the part of the Russian people and use it as a weapon against the 
Russian orthodox church, which was suspected of being monarchistic, 
and that has come out again and again in the Bolshevik attacks on 
the church. They look upon the church as a reactionary institution. 

Senator King. That is, the Bolsheviks? 

Mr. Simons. The Bolsheviks ; yes. 

Senator King. Has there been a confiscation of church property 
and buildings? 

Mr. SiJioNs. Yes, sir: and in quite a number of instances monas- 
teries, with their wealth, have been taken, and all kinds of indecent 
things have been done by certain Bolshevik officials. 

I have some data showing that they have turned certain churches 
and monasteries into dancing halls, and one instance has been re- 
ported to me where a certain Bolshevik official went into a churcl) 
while the people were there waiting for the sacrament, and thre^v 
the priest out, so I am told, and himself put on the clerical garb, 
and then Avent on the altar and made a comedy of the ritual, which 
stirred up the religions sense of the jDeople to that extent that they 
threatened — of course, among themselves — that they would yet kill 
that man. He happened to be an apostate Jew. Other horrible 
things have been done. I do not charge all those things to the 
Bolshevik government, but they were happening under their auspices, 
as it seems. I have seen priests march down the street in front of 
our house with a little bag hanging over their shoulders, for no other 
reason than that they were suspected of being anti-Bolshevik and reac- 
tionary. There are records over there showing that certain innocent 
priests were killed without a trial, and some of them killed in Kron- 
stadt. All those facts can be gotten through the Xorwegian Legation. 

Senator King. What became of those that you saw nnirch liy your 
place? Were they imprisoned? 


Mr. Snioxs. What is that? 

Senator King. I understood you to sav vou had seen priests march 
by your place? 

Mr. Simons. Yes; I have seen them again and ao;ain marched down 
tlie prospect, and put on a barge of some kind and taken do^yn to 
Kronstadt and kept there. One gentleman of the Norwegian Le- 
gation, told me several times that'he had proof .showing that some 
of these men had been killed, as well as quite a number of ,oflicers. 
He himself one Sunday afternoon was a witness. This was aftei' an 
awful storm, one of the wor^-t storms we ever had over there. It 
was Sunday afternoon. On the sliore of the gulf, just opposite 
Kronstadt, bodies had been washed ashore. Thei'e wei'e, as I recall 
his statement, either two or three Rirssian officers tied together. 
He was of the opinion that it was at that time when they threw many 
of them — that is, as the report came out, hundreds of them — over- 
board. I do not know whether it was true or not. hut I thought it 
was. These men had been washed ashore. They were Russian 
officers, two or three of them tied together. 

Senator Kixo. In the ])i'ess that Avas recognized by them — the 
Bolshevist official press — were thei'e accounts of homicides based upon 
the ground that the killing was justified because those who were 
killed were anti-Bolsheviki? 

Mr. Simons. Senator, their press was largely made up of deceits, 
and threats of what they were going to do not only to the Bourgeois 
class, but also to the capitalists all over the world, and we did not get 
hardly any news at all. Now and then there would be telegi'ams 
which were supposed to have come from America, stating that all 
England was on strike, and all America, and that there was not a 
single railroad in the United States that was running, and things 
of that kind, and everything was looking very bright for Bolshevism 
abroad. That was the tenor of their press. Things that were actually 
taking place would rarely be reported, as you and I would expect. 

Senator King. In your contact with the Bolshevik leaders there 
did they conceal their purpose to force to destroy the classes there 
that were above the proletariet; that is, the bourgeois? 

Mr. Simons. Did they conceal it? 

Senator King. Did they conceal their purpose to destroy, by force 
and by starvation or otherwise, the bourgeois? 

Mr. Simons. They never concealed it; no. Thev came right out 
with it boldly; and if you will take the Communist Manifesto you 
Avill find that in about the last paragraph is where they have their 
inspiration. I do npt know whether you recall that. The last word 
is their motto, which appears on all their papers in the left-hand 
corner of the first page, " Proletarians of all countries and nations 
imite." And "finally they labor everywhere" — that is, the prole- 
tarians or communists: the Bolsheviks call themselves communists 

also " finallv they labor eveiywhere for union and agreement of the 

democratic parties of all countries. The connnunists disdain to con- 
ceal their aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained 
onlv bv the forcible overthrow of all existing social condition'^."' 
By the forcible overthroAv of all existing social conditions ! " Let the 
rulino- classes tremble at a communistic revolution. The proletarians 
have nothing to lose, but they have a world to win. Proletarians of 

85723—19 11 


all nations unite I " Here they iise the -woids - working men,"' but 
it is " proletarians " in the original. 

Senator Kikg. Have you discovered a number of Russians over 
here in this coinitry who were engaged in Bolshevik propaganda^ 

Mr. Si:\ioxs. I know of them. 

Senator King. On the East Side, are most of the Russians there 
J ews X 

Mr. Simons. I understand that most of the so-called Russians on 
the East Side are divided into two camps, the Russian Jew camp 
and the so-called real Russian camp, which takes in people who are 
Slovak, who still adhere to the Russian orthodox religion. 

Senator Overman. Doctor, you spolce of meeting these apostate 
Jews in Petrograd. In talking to them, did thej^ tell you what 
they were doing in Russia and what their purpose was in going 
there? You say thejr came and spoke to you because they Imew 

Mr. Simons. The burden of their conversation with me was sim- 
ply this, that I should use whatever influence I had with the Amer- 
ican Red Cross to have it stand by the soviet. That was the burden 
of their talk, but I never felt that I had any mission to jDerform 
in that capacit3^ 

Senator King. Did any of them announce the object tliey had in 
Russia, what part they were playing in the revolution? 

Mr. Simons. Xo, sir; not to me. 

Senator Overman. "Was there any considerable number of them? 

Mr. Simons. Who came to see me? 

Senator Overman. That you saw there? 

Mr. Simons. Or whom I met? I imagine that we encountered 
at least a couple of dozen of them. Some of them were speaking 
English. I will tell you this, that one of them afterwards came 
to me and had supper in our home, and he told me among other 
things, " You know we have had the best training in the world, 
and that enables us to out-Jesuit the Jesuits." I am not speaking 
against the Jews, but I am only telling you how some of these 
fellows felt, that they had the most superior training ; and this man 
■went so far as to say, " There is no more superior training that any- 
body can get in the world than we have been getting." 

(At 4.20 o'clock p. m., the subcommittee went into executive session. 
At .5.45 o'clock p. m., at the close of the executive session, the subcom- 
mittee adjourned, to meet to-morrow, February 1?.. 1919, at 10.30 
o'clock a. m.) 



United States Senate, 
Subcoii:mittee of the Committee on the Judiciaey, 

Washington, D. C. 
The subcommittee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10.30 o'clock 
a. m., in room 228, Senate Office Building, Senator Lee S. Overman 

Present: Senators Overman (chairman), King, Wolcott, and 

Senator OvEE^rAN. The committee will come to order. I have re- 
ceived the following telegram, which I think I will put in the record. 
[Eeading :] 

Xf.w York, Fehruanj 12. I'M'.l 
Senator 0^'ER^tAIf, 

U)iitecl t<t(ites Senate, Washinriton. D. C: 
I empliatically protest against the suggestion in the testimony before the 
propaganda investigating committee that Jews form the life of Bolshevism in 
Russia. The list of names submitted to your committee contains at least a 
half dozen people who are violently opposed to Bolshevism and are fighting it 
tooth and nail. The " Bund." the biggest Jewish socialist party in Russia, is lead- 
ing the fight on Lenine and Trotsky. It is un.iust to indict a v.'hole people by 
insidious suggestion. By doing so the testimony submitted before your com- 
mittee is playing into the hands of the Black Hundreds who are only waiting 
for the downfall of Bolshevism to massacre Jews in Russia. I know whereof 
I speak for I have recently returned from Russia, where I represented the 
United Press Associations. Bolshevism is tyrrany and despotism and the 
greatest insanity the modern world has known, but in the name of justice do 
not blame the Jewish people for it. Blame the centuries of Czarism which 
kept the Russian people in ignorance and made Bolshevism inevitable. 

Joseph Shaplen, 
415 Ninth Street, Brooldyn, N. T. 

I want to say, in justice to Dr. Simons's testimony here, that he 
made no insidious charges against the Jews, but only against the 
apostate Jews. He tried to emphasize that several times. So that his 
remarks were favorable to the real Jews rather than against them. 
Now, Maj. Humes, proceed. 


(The witness was sworn by the chairman.) 

Maj, Humes. Where do you reside, Doctor? 

Mr. Dennis. Evanston, 111. 

Maj. Htjmes. What is your business? 

Mr. Dennis. Teacher in Xorthwestern University. 

Mai Hu'^xEs. Have you recently been in Eussia '. 

•'■ Hi.-! 


Mr. Dexxis. I left Eussia September -2, l;i>t year. 

^laj. Humes. How long had you been there? 

Jlr. Dex'xis. Since Xovember 1. 

Maj. Hx-MES. 1917? 

Sh: Dexxis. Yes. 

^laj. Humes. In what capacity did you go to Eussia ? 

ilr. Denxis. I went to Eussia for the American Y. M. C. A. 

ilaj. Hi 3IES. How long did you continue in the service of the 
Y. ^I. C. A., and what did you then take up? 

]\rr. Dexxis. I changed from the Y. il. C. A. to the Consular Serv- 
ice on April 1, as I remember the date. 

^laj. Humes. AYheri' did you fii-st go in Eussia? 

]Mr. Dexxis. I entered at ^"ladivostok and went across to Moscow- 
went south to the Caucasus — to Eostov-on-the-Don and Xovo Tcher- 
kask. Then Ave came back to the Ukiaine. to Kharkov, and from 
there to Moscow and Pctrograd. 

Senator Xelsox. Were you at Kiev? 

Mr. Dexxis. The Germans were there. 

Senator Overmax. Do you speak the Eussian language? 

]Mr. Dexxis. I can splash about in it now. I can understand it 
i-easonabjy well, or could when I left there. 

I lived for about tvro and a half months at Eostov, a month in 
the city of Petrograd, three months in Xijni Novgorod. 

Maj. Hx':\rEs. If you arrived there in November, 1917. Avas that 
before the Noveml)er revolution? 

^Ir. Dex^xts. That took place while we were on the trans-Siberian. 
_\Vc arrived in Moscow immediatelj^ following that. 

ilaj. Hu:wES. Will j^ou go on in your own way and tell us the 
conditions as you found them, and about the conditions as they de- 
veloped from time to time, the character of the government, the way 
the government was maintaining itself and perpetuating itself at 
the different points where you Avere residing? 

Mr. Dexxis. You give me a Avide-open question like that and I 
am liable to talk vou to death, because I can make a long answer to 

^laj. Humes. That is Avhat Ave Avant. We want a detailed ansAver 
of just the situation as you found it. 

Ml-. Dexxis. I had a good chance to see hoAv it Avorked in the city 
of Eostov, because in that district Kaladines and Korniloff made 
their attempt. 

Senator Nelsox. That is in the T'kraine, is it ? 

i\[r. Dexxis. That is in the Don Cossack basin, a little farther 

Senator Nelsox. Is it on the Don? 

Mr. Dexxis. On the Don: 30 miles from the mouth of the Don 
Eiver Avhere it floAvs into the Sea of Azov. I Avas there when Kala- 
dines connnitted suicide, and I Avas there AA-hen Korniloff made his 
final defense of that city and it Avas taken by the Eed Guard. 

Senator Neesox. You call the Bolshevist government troops the 
Eed Guard ? 

^fr. Dexxis. Yes: the reds are Bolshevik and the Avhites are to 
the contrary. I think the oxpei-ience there Ava- not much different 
fro..i elscAvhere. Thev trok the toAvn. after a AA'liile. Korniloff knew 


that he waw going to be defeated, and made a rear guard defense of 
the citj', and the Red army, officered by Germans, took the city. 

Senator Nelson. How big a phice is llost 



Mr. De>->,^i.s. Tliree hundred tlionsiind. 

Senator Xelsox. Go on. 

Mr. Dexn:s. For four <Uiys tlioy cleaned tlie thinii' u]) scientifically. 

Senator XELSt)x. How? 

Mr. Den:nis. With armored cars and machine guns and soldiess. 
At -i o'clock every afternoon the thing was tuned up and it was l)e>t 
to be inside, because armored cars with " Death to the rich " — that is, 
death to the '' boorzhooie " — would go around town and stop at a 
street corner and send a spurt of machine-gun fire up and down the 
side street and then go on to the next corner and do the same thing. 
The_y had a few mortars and cannon, and with them a few buildings 
Avere destroyed. In the home of one wealthy man whom I had known 
very casually they dropped a shell right in the middle of his dining- 
room table. 

Senator Nelson. When they were firing in the streets in that way, 
at the crossroads, were there people on the streets ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes; I saw a number of them killed. 

Senator Nelson. So that they did not take any pains to avoid 
killing people '( 

Mr. Dennis. I saw a nmnber of )nen killed by the machine guns. 
On the fourth day the_y started something which I think was rather 
typical. They said that there were people in the buildings firing at 
these red soldiers out of the windows, and then it tui'iied loose, and 
everywhere it was " pop, pop, pop." I was on the fourth floor of a 
building, where the angle was rather high, and they could only 
shoot through the upper sash, but you could see those soldiers down 
in the street taking a pot shot at anyone in the windows of the build- 
ings. I saw two soldiers cash in because while they were in the 
street, shooting, along came one of these machine guns and stopped 
at the corner of the street and turned loose. 

Senator Nelson. And killed them, too'^ 

Mr. Dennis. Two of the soldiers of the Eed Guard got it, them- 
selves. Everj^ day and every moment, you never knew ; it would be 
" bang, bang " on the door, and in would come four or five soldiers 
who would search the place, looking primariljr for guns, revolvers, 
etc. We had five Englishmen and Americans and four Englishwomen 
there, and we had a sign on the outside of the door, '" Under the pro- 
tection of the British Government " ; but much good it did ! They 
searched us four times that night up to 12 o'clock. They accused 
us of shooting out of the windows. Two boys came in, about IG 
years old, and they placed revolvers under our noses and asked for 
immediate results. 

Senator Nelson. Have you any idea how many people they killed 
there at that time? 

Mr. Dennis. No, sir; I have not. I do not think anybody knew. 
There had been a number of young boys — what we would call high- 
school boys — there, who had joined this volunteer army, and some of 
them foolishly, instead of getting out of town, went home, thinking 
they could hide out, and a number of them were caught and killed. 

Senator Nelson. Which volunteer army ? 


^ilr. Dennis. Koriiiloff's. 

Senator Nelson. He was one of the old Russian generals? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. You heard his name first in connection with 
Kerensky, in that affair at Petrograd. 

Maj. HrjiES. When you saj^ this Red Guard was commanded by 
German officers, do you mean by that only the higher ranking 
officers, or were the officers generally German? 

Mr. Dennis. German officers did not appear before the public. 
All the men who appeared before the public in Rostov were Rus- 
sians of one kind or another. One or two were Letts. The head 
man was a Lett. The Letts have been in the Russian armies in 
numbers. But in the hotel in which I lived there were 13 German 
officers. The son of the proprietor, whom I had gotten to know 
very well because he had lived in America for a number of years, 
told me that there were six of those men who could not talk 
Russian. I used to hear their stein songs, and there was around 
there a very pleasant German atmosphere. The soldiers knew they 
were German officers. The beggars in the street spoke German. 
They spoke to me in German. I had on a semimilitary uniform, and 
they took me for a German, and spoke to me in German — the first 
and only time it happened to me. 

Senator Wolcott. You say they would instigate stories that the 
civilians had fired from the windows on them? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. 

Senator 0\'eeman. That was a purely fictitious story? 

Mr. Dennis. I do not know, but I had the feeling" that that was 
told to turn loose this terrorism, because the Red soldiers believed 
it. Many of them went mad. 

Senator Nelson. What were these soldiers composed of, Letts and 
Russians ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes ; all kinds. 

Senator Nelson. All kinds ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. 

Senator Overman. It was a conglomeration of every discontented 
sort of man in Russia? 

Mr. Dennis. It was very interesting in Rostov. I have a feeling 
that in Russia this propaganda to take the industries and the land 
met with the approval of the poor people who were in bad shape 
due to the economic conditions of Russia. That was at the begin- 
ning. But within two weeks public sentiment in Rostov had quite 
changed. With the coming of the Red Guard the wealthy people 
left their homes in large numbers, put on their oldest clothes and 
sought refuge with people of less importance and with less pretentious 
homes. I knew a number who did that, and very wisely, I think. 
Within two weeks the feelings of the proletariat had changed, be- 
cause they had been promised cheap bread, but the price of bread 
went up, and discontent and talk began to grow. That discontent 
has grown constantly all over Russia since that. 

Senator Nelson. You were in Rostov in November, 1917 ? 

Mr. Dennis. I stayed there until February. 

Senator Nelson. Did conditions change while you were there? 

Mr. Dennis. No. After I left there. I have only the letters which 
I received from people living in the city, describing the situation, 


and that is my only evidence as to what has happened in Eostov since 
I left there. These letters state that some 600 sailors took the town 
and looted it for a week, held it for a week, and finally the Bol- 
sheviks overthrew them, and then the Germans took control of the 
town. I left there a month or two before the Germans took control 
of the town. 

Senator Nelson. Are they in control now ? 

Mr. Dennis. When I left Eussia they were in control. What they 
have done since the armistice I do not know. 

While this could hot happen every day, it was rather typical of 
conditions in Eussia. I left Eostov with two other Americans on 
the private car of a man who was an adjutant of some kind for 
Antonoff, who was one of the big men in the Government. 

Senator Overman. You mean one of the big men in the Bolshevik 
government ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. This young fellow — it was like being with 
Capt. Kidd, except that you worked on land instead of sea — this 
fellow had an engine and a private car at his disposal, which took 
him wherever he wanted to go. He was going back from Eostov to 
Kharkov. We were glad to go with him. Trains were not running, 
and the conditions were terrible. For three days we went down 
every day and sat on the platform of his car waiting for him to' 
come down, because he said that he was going, and then we went 
back home every evening. On the last day we went to the sta- 
tion and were waiting for him. The station at Eostov, like all 
stations in Eussia, was jammed with hundreds and thousands of 
people. That station platform must be at least 1,500 feet long. 
When this fellow came down to his car he made his driver drive down 
the entire length of that platform, right through the crowd, a thing 
that would not have happened even in the days of the old regime 
except with some drunken individual. Then he got out and went 
and got on his car. He was showing off his authority. He wore two 
guns, a sword, and a dirk, and was dressed in an aviator's leather 
uniform. That seemed to be very popular with those fellows. It 
made them more smart than anything else they could wear. 

This" chap had with him a woman and two children, and they had 
in that car all kinds of loot. They had gone through the stores of 
Eostov and taken what they wanted — requisitioned it. He showed 
it to us with considerable pride, and the 270,000 rubles that he had. 

Instead of getting to Kharkov in 15 hours, we were five days with 
this gentleman on his car. Finally we went through a little town in 
the Ukraine where he lived, and he took the loot off this car and took 
it home and cached it in his cellar. He stayed a day there, and they 
had a great celebration. We did not celebrate much. 

At the end of five days we arrived in Kharkov. On the second day 
after we arrived there I saw this same chap with his woman and 
three cabs loaded to the guards with stuff that he had taken out of 
the stores of Kharkov. He waved his hand to us gaily, and went 
down to his car. We bade him farewell, and we were through. 

Senator Overman. What was he in the government? 

Mr. Dennis. He was some sort of an adjutant for Antonoff, ac- 
cording to his story. 

Senator Nelson. What was Antonoff's position? 


Mr. Denxis. He is one of the big men. I can not remember his 
portfolio. Perhaps one of tliese other gentlemen here can tell you. 

A Bystaxdeb. .He \Yas military commander. Antonoff conmianded 
the army which fought in Rosto^•. Ho is a ci\'ilian, but he was in 
command of the army. 

Senator Xelson. Did they destroj' much property in Rostov \ 

Mr. Dexxis. Not while I was there. Not a great many shells fell 
in the town. There was no such destruction as there was in Moscow, 
for the reason that the Red Guard made its defense outside of the 
city, and the shooting in the city was mostly done by machine guns 
and rifles, which do nothing more than break windows. 

Senator Nelsox. In what direction did Korniloff retreat? 

ilr. Dexxis. South, into the Caucasus; and later, up with the 
Kuban Cossacks, according to report. 

Senator Nelsox. Down on the lower Volga? 

!Mr. Dexxis. No; it is considerably west of the Volga. 

Senator Overman. Who were in command of these people; were 
they German officers? 

Mr. Dexxis. They conmianded the military end of it. They did 
not appear before the public. 

Senator Overman. Were these Red Guards drilled? Had they 
been soldiers ? 

Mr. Dexnis. They all had been soldiers; wore soldiers' uniforms. 
I I'emembei' I was going home one day, and I saw a boy not older 
than 14 or 15, a little shrimp of a lad, hammering on the front door 
of a wealthy man's house there, and threatening to shoot everybody 
in the house unless they opened on the instant. That was rather 
typical of the attitude to the bourgeois. But this was done for in- 
timidation. They levied a tax of 12,000,000 rubles upon Rostov. 
The first thing they did was to levy a tax of 1:2,000,000 rubles on the 
city. That was later added to by 10,000,000 rubles more. 

Senator Nelsox. Was that paid? 

Mr. Dennis. I think it was. I knew the managers of a large 
cigarette factory there, and they paid something over 900,000 rubles 
in cash. They doubled the price of cigarettes every time they were 

Senator Wolcott. Do you knoAv where that tax money went? 

Mr. Dennis. No, sir; I doubt if anybodj' does. There were two 
wealthy men in the town who Avere taxed for 1,000,000 rubles apiece. 

Senator Nelson. Did you go to other storm centers there? 

Mr. Dexnis. That was the only real fighting on any scale that I 
saw in Russia. I went back to Kharkov, and then to ^loscow and 
Petrograd. Next to Petrograd and Moscow, I presume that Kharkov 
is one of the largest manufacturing cities of Russia. 

Senator Nelson. Were you at Moscow when they had the revolu- 
tion ? 

Mr. Dexxis. I just missed that. The buildings were still burning 
when I got there, in a few cases. 

Senator Wolcott. Have j^ou any knowledge of atrocities com- 
mitted by the officials of the Bolshevik regime, "who were acting in 
what I might call a civil capacity rather than in any military en- 
gagement, for the purpose of terrorizing and intimidating the popu- 
lation ? 


Mr. Deniviis. At Xovo Tcherkawk, in that city, a .small Kusriian 
toAYii, Kaledines liad his headquarters. That is' a really important 
part of the Don Cossack iiegion. When they knew that they were 
going to give up the city of Rostov, the volmiteer army got together 
a hospital train and took some 300 officers, went into the hospitals 
and rushed these wounded men into this hospital train, and ran them 
to Novo Tcherkask. They got them out of Rostov just about two 
days before the town fell. They thought at that time that Novo 
Tcherkask would not be taken. It was then, and the officers who 
were so badly wounded that they could not be removed from Novo 
Tcherkask — they could not get out by the railroad because the rail- 
roads were cut off, and any men who were so badly wounded that 
they could not be gotten out any other way and who remained there 
in the hospitals and private homes — those officers were all killed, 
and their bodies were left in the streets of Novo Tcherkask for four 
days before anj^one dared to touch them. 

Senator Oveeman. That is horrible. How many were there? 

Mr. Dennis. Between 140 and 150. That was a matter engendered 
by the hatred between soldiers and officers. 

Senator Overman. Were they Cossack officers? 

Mr. Dennis. No; only a few of the men who joined "Korniloff's 
arn(iy were Cossacks ; a very few. 

Senator Nelson. Did the Cossacks, as a rule, join the Red Army? 

Mr. Dennis. I heard of Cossacks who had been at the front who 
went Bolshevik. At Christmas time they sent them all home for 
Christmas vacation, hoping that the old people could straighten them 
out, because they were against the movement. 

Senator Nelson. The old Cossacks were opposed to the Bolshe- 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. They owned land and had no desire to give it 
up. The peasants who owned land in Russia were I do not know 
what percentage, but a small percentage, of the peasants of Russia ; 
and, of course, the Cossacks who owned their land were against this. 
movement, naturally. 

Senator Nelson. All settled Cossacks owned their land? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes: by the Government grant. 

Senator Nelson. The hetman of the Cossacks did not join the Red 
Guard? ^ 

Mr. Dennis. No, sir. I do not know this as Pdo about Kaledines, 
but the man who took his place as hetman was later killed. The 
story runs that he attempted to escape and was shot. We question 
it very much ; but I do not know the facts. 

Senator Overman. Did they attempt to divide the land up 
amongst the people while you Avere there ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes ; that was done in many cases. 

Senator Overman. And they took the land away from the land- 
owners ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. 

Senator Overman. How did they divide it; do you know? 

Mr. Dennis. Well, there Avas no special way of doing this thing. 
It varied, I think, with every community or every village. Ninety 
per cent of these peasants, I should say — although the figures vai-y — 
do not own their own land, but they own it as a community, and in 


many cases it got to be a quarrel between one village and the next 
adjacent as to which one was to get this estate which lay in between. 

Senator Nelson. They are all settled in villages, are they not? 

Mr. Dexnis. They live under an old " Bible-time " communist 

Senator Nelson. They are settled in villages and communes, and 
the land is owned by the village or commune ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. They call them niirs, do they not ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. The mirs own the lands and they simply appor- 
tion them out to the peasants: each man has his particular parcel 
to cultivate? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes; the lands are allotted. 

Senator Overman. Are they allotted to the individuals or allotted 
to the county or town? 

]Mr. Dennis. You are talking about the old allotments? 

Senator Overjian. I am talking about the old allotments. 

Mr. Dennis. Yes; that is right; to the individual. Now, the ques- 
tion arose in many cases as to which village was to get this interven- 
ing land. While these people generally get along in peace, oftentimes 
there is a good deal of jealousy between two villages. Here is one 
of 15,000 people and here is one of .5,000, and the question arises as 
to who shall get this land in between, and in that event the village 
of 15,000 is likely to get it. 

Senator Nelson. Did the Bolsheviki attempt to disturb the old 
system of mir allotments? Did they attempt to break up the sys- 
tem of allotments that prevailed there wheie the mirs owned the 

Mr. Dennis. I believe not, though it may be; but in any investiga- 
tion of that kind, because the condition of things was so kaleidoscopic, 
almost anything you want to state about it is true, whether it is 
typical or not. 

Senator Nelson. I suppose the operations under the Bolsheviki 
were confined to the confiscation of land from the big landowners ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes; but they also started that same class hatred 
between the peasants who lived upon their own land and those who 
lived under the comi]|une system. A number of years ago they en- 
deavored to get the peasants to live upon their own lands, because 
this system they have is like the case of a one-year tenacy in this 
country, where nothing is put back on the land; and in the Volga 
Valley, which is the richest in the world, the land had been fatmed 
for thousands of years, with nothing being put back on the land. 
Lenine started a class war between those who owned their lands that 
way and those living in the communes. 

Senator Nelson. Is this town where you saw this big riot that 
you have described in what they call the black belt of Eussia ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. A rich agricultural prairie country? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. The term " steppe " there is about the same as 
" prairie " here ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir; prairie. 


Senator Overman. What did thej do with the big merchants and 
stores ? 

Mr. Dennis. They had on paper a plan for the taking over of 
this land and the taking over of industry, and how it should be 
organized and run, but that is not so simple when you turn loose 
100,000,000 people with hate in their hearts. It did not go according 
to the plan. They took over a lot of factories, and in most cases a 
lot of different things happened. Every group, every community, 
was a law unto itself. 

Senator Overman. Did they loot the stores? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes ; but it is not called looting. It is called requi- 

Senator Overman. The soldiers had the right to requisition what 
they wanted? 

Mr. Dennis. They did, seemingly. In Nijni Novgorod the Gov- 
ernment officials took over all the shoe stores and clothing stores and 
hardware stores. 

Senator Nelson. Were you at Nijni Novgorod? 

Mr. Dennis. I lived there three months. These officials took over 
all those shops without compensation. 

Senator Nelson. That is a big city of 600,000 people? 

Mr. Dennis. I doubt if it is that large. It is a city of some size; 
between 250,000 and 350,000. No one ever knows in Eussia. 

Senator Nelson. That is where they hold that great fair? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Do they hold it yet? 

Mr. Dennis. According to the soviet newspapers of Eussia, they 
had a magnificent fair there last summer. There was no more fair 
there than there is on this table. 

Senator Nelson. Which side of the Volga is it on ? 

Mr. Dennis. On the low side. The town is divided into the high 
town and the low town, on the east side which lies right along the 
river. The soviet newspapers, however, had out reports that this 
fair was running very successfully. 

Senator Nelson. Had the Bolsheviki or Eeds gotten control of the 
town when you were there? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. They were in possession? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. 

Senator Overman. Did the government undertake to run them, 
when they took over these stores ? 

Mr. Dennis. They took over these supplies and then peddled them 
out. You had to go to a certain commissar and get a permit to buy a 
certain pair of shoes, and then go and stand in line. I was told there 
were not more than 2,000 pairs of shoes in the city. 

Senator Nelson. These men who finally got the shoes, did they 
have to pay for them? 

Mr. Dennis. They bought them from the government. 

Senator Nelson. The government confiscated them and then sold 
them ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. 

Senator Overman. That is a way, in addition to taxation, in which 
the government gets money ? 


Mr. Dennis. It helps. There was no thought of compensation. 
Of course, it was specifically understood, when they took vjver all 
of the land, that there was to be no compensation. 

Senator Xelson. How did they operate when the Soviets took over 
the manufacturing industries* 

Mr. Dennis. They just took them, with or without the consent of 
the OAvners. The owners did various things. I question if you covdd 
iind any specific case that w'as typical of all the owners here and 

Senator Nelson. They took possession, but when they took posses- 
sion did they undertake to operate ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. In what manner? 

Mr. Dennis. Under a committee of workmen, and under the eco- 
nomic committee, which, besides w'orkmen, may be made up of college 
professors, or whoever happens to be in it. But I fail to understand, 
and it is quite beyond my comprehension, how the other men who 
have returned from Russia state that the industry' of Russia is run- 
ning, because it is not. My basis for the statement lies in the fact 
that I saw factories in three cities closed. In Nijni Novgorod, a 
large manufacturing town, when I left there there was only one small 
factory running. 

Senator Nelson. At what place? 

Mr. Dennis. Nijni Novgorod — one small factory. 

Senator Nelson. That is a town of half a million people? 

Mr. Dennis. Three hundred thousand, I think, would be nearer 
the facts. They had a factory there that had run at its height with 
25,000 men. When I first came there they Avere running with from 
12,000 to 14,000. Statistics are hard to get in Russia. Nobody knows 
anything accurately. The factory was closed. That factory, to my 
mind, is a good example of the Bolshevik methods in Russia. 

Senator Overman. What was that factory manufacturing? 

Mr. Dennis. They had manufactured locomotives, and they changed 
it to munitions and back to locomotives. The week I got there they 
demanded of their soviet a new- election, as you are supposed to do 
under the constitution. As I understand it, any time that you are 
dissatisfied with your representative of the soviet, you can call a 
m-eeting and elect a new representatiA'e. They demanded that elec- 
tion. They could not get it, so they went on a strike for a week, and 
finally got it, and they elected 67 per cent of the new representatives 
from anti-Bolshevik parties. But that is not according to the way 
they play the game in Russia, so that election was declared null and 
void, and the old representatives of the Bolsheviki held over. 

Across Volga River there is a pontoon bridge which they use in 
summer time and take up in winter, as they use the ice in winter. 
That bridge was not laicl for a month and a half later than usual 
because they Avere afraid the Avorkmen in this factory would come 
across the river and take the town. I have tried to go to that town 
and have run into a line of Red Guards hiding around in the grass 
Avith machine guns, who had this town surrounded, Avatching it, 
because they were afraid these Avorkmen were coming over. 

Senator 'Wolcott. I gather that the Avorkmen in this town you 
speak of had become disgusted with the Bolshevik croAvd? 


Mr. Dexxis. I should say that is exactly the state of mind of a 
large majority of the workmen and the peasants at the present time in 

Senator Nelsox. Did there seem to be any head or system to their 
city government there ? 

^Ir. Dexxis. So far as I could get information on such things, in 
talking with other men from other cities, I think they had about 
as efficient a local soviet in Nijni Novgorod as any place. They had 
three men who did some things with executive ability. Two of' these 
men were men of some education. One of them had been to a Rus- 
sian university. But in the last month I was there they fired the two 
top men in the soviet. One of them, who was what they call the state 
commissar, said that they fired those two men and put in men who 
were of more radical beliefs, who were of a more radical state of 
mind, because those men were too conser^ iitive; and that tendency, I 
think, can be found all over Eussia. 

Senator Overmax'. You say that three-fourths are against the 
Bolsheviki. Why do they not rise up and overthrow the Bolshevik 
government ? 

Mr. Dex^xis. One answer is to shrug your shoulders and say " That 
is Russia ; that is the Russian character." The Russians, Avhile they 
know how to cooperate in business and in cooperative societies (and 
they did organize long before the war and during the war in a busi- 
ness way), when it comes to politics are absolutely hopeless. They 
do not know the meaning of the word "' compromise."' If 3'ou were 
to gather around this table representatives of the Methodist Episco- 
pal Church, of the Presbyterian Church, of the Catholic Church, 
and of the Jewish Church, and of all the other sects that we have 
in this country, and ask them to form one church, you would have 
the same situation you would have in Russia if you were to ask 
these political parties to get together. 

Senator Nelsox. The peasants — ^that is, the real Russian peasants — 
belong to the Greek Church, do they not? 

Mr. Dennis. They do not call it the Greek Church, but the Rus- 
sian Church. 

Senator Nelsox^. I mean the Russian Church. 

Mr. Dexx^is. Yes, sir. 

Senator Overmax. Do you suppose that some great patriotic leader 
like Nicholas, or a great general in the army, could organize these 
people into an army ? 

Mr. Dexnis. I very much have my doubts. I like the Russian 
people very much — the ones that I have come in contact with I like 
personally very much — but if you try to do anything with them, to 
organize "them, you can not do it, because they will not get together. 
There is a saying in Russia which very plainly describes the Russian 
characteristics, and which is true, that any time you get three Rus- 
sians together you have five opinions, and I think that any man who 
has tried to do things with them will agree to that statement. 

Senator Wolcott. Then the fact that the Bolsheviki vigorously 
pursued their terrorism served to restrain at least 75 per cent of the 
people from asserting their wish in overthrowing the Bolsheviki? 

Mr. Dex^xis. They" very thoroughly Jntimidatecl them by standing 
them up against a wall and shooting them, and by imprisonment, and 



by a general lack of safety, and the requisitioning and taking over 
of houses and all that sort of thing. They had them very thoroughly 
intimidated. The Eussian peasant has fought again and again and 
is fighting against the Red Guard. Why ? On account of fixed prices 
for food and fixed prices on grain, at which he must sell, and because 
on the things that he needs to buy, which, as a general rule, he can 
not get because there is A-ery little of them, there are no fixed prices. 
The sky is the limit. I have seen at the bazaar in the city of Nijni 
Xovgorod the Eed Guard go down there and just take the food away 
from the peasants at the fixed price, which is far below the market 
price. They feel about this the same as the American farmer would 
if you put a price of '2-2 cents on his wheat to-morrow, instead of $2 — 
or whatever it is. Wlaen the soldiers came out to take the food there 
were many fights, because the peasant had been told to take his gun 
home, and he did, and in some cases he took a machine gun, and he 
had been told to use it, and had been told he was a free man ; and the 
peasants fought, and the Eed Guards many times got the worst of it. 
Of course, while it is not written in Eussia, and I do not know that 
they Avould agree with this at all, it would seem that there is only one 
rule under which the Bolsheviki work in Eussia, and that is that the 
end justifies the means. 

Senator Overjian. The whole population is a mob? It is just 
anarchy ? 

Mr. Dennis. Of course, if you are not a Bolshevik, " Get out. We 
will not feed you. And if you work against us, we will kill you." I 
can not imagine that it was any more dangerous under Ivan the Ter- 
rible for a man to speak openly against the government than it is 
at the present time. 

Senator Nelson. Can you give us, in brief, an outline of their 
scheme of government, of the national Bolshevik government; what 
their plan is? 

Mr. Dennis. The leaders of this government were advanced social- 
ists of the radical type and believed in going the full length of social- 
ism, and going it by the most radical methods, by force. Other 
precepts they have; that there is no such thing as private capital, or 
private property, and that everything must belong to the state, all 
land and all sources of production ; and they have had it specifically 
nominated in the bond that there shall be no discussion as to how it 
shall be done. They take these things by force, without compensation 
for them. 

Senator Nelson. Then do they follow it up and sav' how the state 
is to utilize this property ? 

Mr. Dennis. I think that on paper they had a pretty good scheme, 
from their viewpoint; but it is not the easiest thing in the world to 
organize, with a vast country and a terribly disorganized people who 
are amazingly unintelligent, so far as reading and writing are con- 
cerned. They cut themselves out a big piece of work, and they started 
something they could not control. When they got ready to give a 
man orders, they found they could not give him orders. 

Senator Nelson. Take, for instance, the matter of land. Their 
scheme was that all of the land belonged to the state, was it not, and 
the use of it shonld be distributed among the peasants? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. sir. 


Senator Nelson. And when you come to the manufactuiing indus- 
tries, their scheme was to take possession of them and have them 
operated by the government ? 

Mr. Deistnis. They belonged to the people, through the government. 
They say everything belongs to the people, because that is a more 
popular way of putting it. 

Senator Nelson. What about the banks? 

Mr. Dennis. Ditto. 

Senator Nelson. They were to be taken over by the 

Mr. Dennis. They were taken over. 

Senator Nelson. Were they to be run by the Bolshevik men ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir; for the people. Private property goes out 
of the thing. 

Senator Nelson. There is no longer any private property ? 

Mr. Dennis. From which you receive an income — no. I had a very 
interesting conversation with the bank commissar in Nijni Novgo- 
rod. I think I could bust any good bank there is in this city in about 
a week, if they would let me run it. I do not know anything about a 
bank. This chap had very interesting ideas about it. Inasmuch as 
we know that money is the root of all evil, this chap's idea, as he ex- 
pressed it to nie, was to get rid of money. He said, " I hope to see 
the day when a chicken will cost 5,000 rubles, and that will mean 
that money will have no value, and we will get rid of it. We will not 
need any money." 

Senator Nelson. He would go bacli to the system of barter and ex- 
change that prevailed before we got any money ? 

Mr. Dennis. I do not think he thought much beyond the point of 
getting rid of money ; it is the root of all evil, tear it up, and that 
kind of idea. That was from a man who had charge of all the banks 
in his district. 

Senator Nelson. The money they have in circulation now is all 
paper money, is it not? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. Irredeemable paper money, which they are print- 
ing and issuing almost without limit? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. What have they done with the gold that was in 
the banks? 

Mr. Dennis. There were several gold centers. At Nijni Novgorod 
they had a lot of gold. I at one time knew the amount of gold in 
Nijni Novgorod. 

Senator Nelson. Did they not, as a consequence of the treaty of 
Brest-Litovsk, take over about $200,000,000 of gold of the towns? 

Mr. Dennis. I do not know. There was some talk about it, but I 
do not know the facts. I know they brought to Nijni Novgorod from 
Eiga a large amount of gold, stocks, bonds, and collateral of all 
kinds, brouo'ht with the German bankers who had -run those banks. 
Those Germans I knew personally in Nijni Novgorod, and they were 
sitting around hoping and praying they could get their hands on this 

Senator Overman. When you got your check from the United 
States for your salary, how did you get the money on it? 

Mr. Dennis. I always got the money directly. But it was possible 
to go out and sell it, jjecause many wealthy people who had money 


hidden, who s;nv this thing coming and got tlieir money out of 
the banks in cash, were getting nervous because all the time they 
were having searches and it was possible that this money would be 
discovered and be confiscated, and they were very glad to exchange 
money for a draft on America, because it was easier to hide it. 

Senator Wolcott. This gentleman who had these interesting finan- 
cial views you speak of, the commisar of the banks, I am curious to 
know whether he was in a position of large responsibility. How 
much territory did he have under his jurisdiction where he was going 
to put into effect these ideas? 

Mr. Dennis. He was running the banks of Xijni Novgorod. 

Senator Woixott. That is how large a place? 

j\Ir. Dennis. Three hundred thousand, with a lot of big banks 
there, with big supplies of money. 

Senator Wolcott. Did he stay in that office as long as you were in 
the countrv? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. 

Senator Xelson. Were you in southern Russia, on the border of 
the Black Sea. at Odessa, and in the Crimea? 

Mr. Di:x>"is. Xo. sir. 

Senator Xeeshn. Were you on the Siberian Eailroad? 

INlr. Dennis. Yes; Ave went across by the trans-Siberian, going in 
1)y Vladivostok to Moscow. 

Senator Xelson. What time did vou go in? 

^fr. Den>is. The 1st of Xoveniber. 1917. 

Senator Xelson. I understand, now, and I want to know if it is 
not your information, that what I call the anti-Red Guard, the anti- 
Bolsheviki, control the railroads as far west as Omsk, and perhaps 
as far west as Perm ; is not that correct? 

]\Ir. Dennis. I have only newspaper reports on that. 

Senator Xelson. Is not that your understanding, too? 

^Ir. Dennis. Yes; from what I read. 

Senator Xelson. Do they not control that whole line from ^"ladi- 
vostok out as far as Perm, which is the largest town west of the 
Ural Mountains? 

Mr. Dennis. That might be true to-day, and to-morrow be not 
true, because my experience with the railroads in Russia was that you 
ne^er Imew. You got on a train, and perhaps you got there and per- 
haps you did not. 

Senator Overman. You did not know Lenine and Ti'otsky? 

]\Ir. Dennis. Personally, no, sir. 

Senator Over .man. Were they men of ability, brains, and educa- 
tion, by reputation? 

yir. Dennis. Yes. sir: I should say thev were very able men and 
thoroughly believed that this was the way to bring about heaven on 
earth, and to end the ills of society. 

Senator Wolcott. Their route to heaven, though, seems to have 
been first through hell? 

Mr. Dennis. The route was circuitous. However, as you know 
from reading the Liberator, the American magazine, Mr. Lenine 
answers any criticism which I might make, or any other man tcstifv- 
iu£r here, and say.: "Of course this happened and that happened; 


of course it did. We have made mistakes, but what can you expect ? 
Look where we are going and what we are aiming at — what we want 
to do ! He meets almost all those criticisms in that article in the 

Senator Nelson. Their aim, theoretically at least, is a pure 
socialistic government, is it not? 

Mr. Denxis. With one class only. 

Senator Nelson. With one class only, and that is what they call the 
proletariat ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. That includes the peasants and the working men, 
I suppose? 

Mr. Dennis. In Russia they would say it was rather simpler than 
in any other country because "they have more of the proletariat. The 
proletariat are the larger per cent of the people, and the so-called 
upper classes are a smaller per cent, and the scheme was to have 
only one class when they got through. 

Senator Nelson. They did not make any provision for what we 
call in this country the large body of consumers, did they? They 
did not have any idea on that, did they ? 

^Ir. Dennis. They look upon everybody as a producer' and con- 
sumer and, according to the plan, everybody has plenty. There is 
no difference in class, no difference in caste. 

Senator Overman . Is any attempt made toward education ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes ; they have very fine plans on paper. 

Senator Nelson. Was not the country invaded a good deal by 
German business men? 

Mr. Dennis. German business men and commissions were in 
Nijni Novgorod. I hardly ever went out of the house except some- 
body, paid by a German, followed me around. 

Senator Nelson. And the Germans seemed to have the upper hand 
among the Reds? 

Mr. Dennis. Very much so. 

Senator Nelson. In other words, there is an affiliation and com- 
bination between the Bolsheviki, the Red people, and the German 
people who were there in Russia ? 

Mr. Dennis. An affiliation to this extent. This is purely my per- 
sonal opinion, as is all of it, from my observation. There was an 
affiliation to this extent, that each group was trying to use the other 
group. It was not that they had any great sympathy with Germany 
at all, but if they could use Germany, well and good ; and Germany 
was trying to use them. 

Senator Nelson. But, I mean there were a good many German 
missions there, business men and spies and others that were con- 
stantly operating there? 

Mr." Dennis. Yes, sir. I was very well aware of it in Nijni 
Novgorod. They had large commissions there, and ostensibly these 
men were looking after the welfare of the Central Eiripire prisoners. 
That is why they were there, on the surface. They were there when 

I left. 

Senator Nelson. Carrying on the business of propaganda in 

Russia ? 

85723—19 12 


ilr. Dennis. They were. I knew of two cases where they had 
bought stock, and they carried the gamble through to the last minute, 
buying stock in industries, and buying estates. 

Senator Nelson. You seem to be well posted. If there is any- 
thing else you have not told us about this matter that you think 
we ought to know, or the American people ought to know, I wish 
you would tell us. 

Mr. Dennis. I do not know whether this belongs in this hearing 
or not, but a thing that interested me very much was to discover 
a number of men in positions of power, commissars in the cities 
here and there in Russia, who had lived in America. 

Senator Nelson. Who had been graduated here? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Where had they lived mostly, in New York? 

Mr. Dennis. In the industrial centers. I met a number of them, 
and I sat around and listened to attacks upon America that I would 
not take from any man in this country ; but I took it over there be- 
cause I was asking favors, and I was not in a position to get into an 
altercation, as I did not want to get in jail. 

Senator Nelson. Were the men who had lived for years in this 
country, and had gone back there, occupying prominent positions in 
this Bolshevik government? 

^Ir. Dennis. Yes, sir. 

Senator Wolcx)tt. In the main, of what nationality were they ? 

Mr. Dennis. Hebrew. 

Senator Wolcott. German Hebrews? 

Mr. Dennis. Russian Hebrews. The men that I met there had 
lived in America, according to their stories, anywhere from 3 to 12 

Senator Nelson. You know, years ago they colonized a lot of Ger- 
mans over there in southern Russia. We call them Mennonites. 

Mr. Dennis. Yes ; we call them that in this country. 

Senator Nelson. Do you know what their attitude was? 

Mr. Dennis. I do not know what their prejudice was, but I judge 
that they had a prejudice, from the information I got that they at 
the end were pretty badly treated by the Russian Government. They 
were deported and sent into Siberia. 

Senator Nelson. They were settled there originally because they 
did not believe in war. They were permitted to emigrate to Russia, 
and were given land, and given immunitj' from military service; but 
that militaiy immunity was afterwards revoked. Now, were they 
with the Bolsheviki, or were they with the other side ? 

Mr. Dennis. I could not answer that question. I could only say 
that these men in the last year of the war, and some of them before, 
in large numbers, were dispossessed and sent into Siberia and put 
in the internment camps, because of supposedly pro-German senti- 

Senator Nelson. They occupied that territory around the lower 
Don, did they not? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes ; there were numbers of them there, and then they 
were pretty well scattered. 

Spncitnr Nei^on. In the black belt, on the verge of the arid countrv. 


Senator Overman. Are these people over there, who have lived in 
the United States, taking part in this Bolshevik movement? 

Mr. Dennis. This is a thing that, in my opinion, backed up by 
the opinions of other Americans, Englishmen, and Frenchmen with 
whom I talked when we got into Moscow, and were waiting there 
three weeks before we got out, and comparing notes, seems more in- 
teresting than the fact that they are there in positions of power, that 
these men were the most bitter and implacable men in Russia on the 
progi'am of the extermination, if necessary, of the bourgeois class. 

Senator Nelson. They constitute the Red element, do they not? 

Mr. Dennis. In many cases. 

Senator Nelson. In most cases? 

Mr. Dennis. In many cases. I would not say in most, but in many. 

Senator Nelson. Trotsky himself came from this country, did he 

Mr. Dennis. Yes ; he had lived in this country. 

Senator Overman. You say they are in favor of the extermination 
of the bourgeois ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. I never met a more implacable individual 
than a man that they called the war commissar in Nijni Novgorod. 
He had been in this country for a number of years. 

Senator Nelson. They were Hebrews that had been in this coun- 

Mr. Dennis. These men are ; yes, sir. 

Senator Overman. Do you know of any effort they are making to 
carry that propaganda to this country? 

Mr. Dennis. I can not go into court and prove it, but I have 
some very definite suspicions, and some facts which would indicate 
considerable; yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. Give us what you have. 

Mr. Dennis. I believe the information on that score that I have is 
already in the hands of the Government, through other sources; 
but, going to their meetings as I have done in the city of Chicago, 
there is no question at all about their approval of the Russian 
system and of their desire to bring it to pass in this country. 

Senator Nelson. Are there many of that class of people in Chi- 

Mr. Dennis. The first meeting I went to was in the Chicago Coli- 
seum, which was packed. Indeed, they had overflow meetings, and 
all the speakers had to go out and double up. 

Senator Nelson. And that was a socialist meeting? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. _ 

Senator Nelson. Publishing Russian propaganda? 

Mr. Dennis. A red-flag meeting. 

Senator Overman. Is there any affiliation between them and the 
I. W. W. of this country ? 

Mr. Dennis. As to any affiliation in fact or in organization I do> 
not know ; but they are absolutely affiliated, I should say, inasmuch as 
they are both going to the same place. 

Senator Overman. As they both tend to the same thing? 

Mr. Dennis. They both want the same thing. 

Senator Nelson. All aiming for the same end ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. 


Senator Nelson. By the same methods? 

Mr. Dennis. I see no difference between them at all; but as to 
whether they have any affiliation in organization I do not know. 
That is bound to come, I think. If the movement goes on they will 
get together, of course. 

Senator A'elson. Are they circulating much Bolshevik literature 
out in Chicago? 

Mr. Dennis. Have you seen copies of the American Bolshevik, 
published in Minneapolis? 

Senator Nelson. Yes; and I had something from that printed in 
the Congressional Record. 

]\Ir. Dennis. That is a fair example of it. I have here some of the 
handbills they were distributing, which call for immediate action. 

Senator O^terman. Did you see that great handbill that they 
were sending all over the country and posting up, " The War is over, 
now for revolution " ? 

Mr. Dennis. I have not seen that; no, sir. But nothing of that 
kind would surprise me, after what I have learned in Chicago. 

Senator Wolcott. What is the seating capacity of the Coliseum? 

Mr. Dennis. I do not know. Several times I asked what it was, 
but I could not get definite figures on it. I think it runs from six to 
ten thousand. 

Senator Wolcott. At this large meeting which you attended, at 
which they had to have overflow meetings, did the meeting seem to 
be in sympathy Avitli the ideas expressed, or was it made up largely 
of people who were there just to look on ? 

Mr. Dennis. There were there a number of observers like myself, 
and a good many Go^-ernment observers were there, but with the first 
mention of the names of Lenine and Trotsky the crowd arose to its 
feet and applauded for five minutes. Thej' had on the wall. I re- 
member, a long stiip of paper containing a list of the soviet repub- 
lics of the world. This list was a little premature, I think. Neverthe- 
less it was there. It began with Russia, Germany, Norway, Sweden, 
and went on down through the list, and at the bottom was a large 
question mark, "Which is next?" And every speaker, not by actual 
words, but by inference, said that America w'ould be the next one; 
and everj' time that was done there was sure to be applause. 

Senator Nelson. Did you observe the character of the people there, 
or their nationality ''( 

Mr. Dennis. It was a very well-dressed, intelligent-looking crowd; 
not starving people by any means. Indeed, I have always maintained 
that Bolshevism is not a cry or demand for bread; it is a state of 
mind, and it must be met as such. They were a pretty well-dressed, 
intelligent crowd. 

Senator Nelson. I mean as to their nationality. Were they native- 
born Americans, or were they foreigners? 

Mr. Dennis. One could only tell by the applause when the 
speeches were made in the different languages, as to the predominant 
number of people there. We had speeches in Polish, Yiddish, and 
German, but when the Russian delegate got up and said, "Com- 
rades," which is a great word in Russia, I should say at least 70 per 
cent of that audience got to their feet. 


Senator Wolcott. Which tongue seemed to rank next to the lius- 
sian at that meeting? 

Mr. Dennis. I would say Yiddish. There was an American work- 
man, about 50 years old, who sat immediately to my riglit, with whom 
I talked a good deal; a well-dressed, first-class looking workman. It 
was really my first contact with that type of man, and I will tell you 
that I would just as willingly try to dri^e a tenpenny nail into a 
cement block as to try to get an idea into that man's head. I never 
found any greater hatred than that man had for the capitalistic class, 
as he called them. 

Senator Wolcott. Then he was of American nationality '( 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. From what you have seen since you came back, 
there at Chicago, j'ou would think there is propaganda going on here 
in this country ? 

Mr. Dennis. Very definitely. 

Senator Nelson. Bolshevik propaganda ? 

Mr. Dennis; Yes. 

Senator Nelson. As I understood you awhile ago, you found some 
of the very prominent men in the Bolshevik government over there 
that were men who had lived in this country and gone back to Eussia. 

Mr. Dennis. The interesting thing about it was not their promi- 
nence but their bitterness. 

Senator Nelson. They were most bitter? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. 

Senator Overman. Did you recognize any speakers of prominence 
at that meeting? 

Mr. Dennis. I beg pardon? 

Senator Overman. Were any of these speakers men of prominence 
in Chicago or in this country? 

Mr. Dennis. Oh, yes; all the men who have been on trial before 
Judge Landis spoke there. 

Senator Nelson. Can you give the names of these speakers at 
Chicago ? 

Mr. Dennis. Steadman, Victor Berger, and what is the man's name 
that begins with Er? He is a Norwegian. All the men who have 
been on trial before Judge Landis spoke at that meeting, and a num- 
ber of others. 

Senator Overman. There has been more than one meeting? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes; I have gone to some smaller meetings. 

Senator Nelson. They have small ward meetings, do they not, in 
the localities where they live ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And ha-\e local speakers there? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And they are at it continually, are they not? 

Mr. Dennis. I think this can be proved. There are now some paid 
traveling speakers. The organization has a paid staff. 

Senator Nelson. Have you come across any of these men who 
have been in Eussia and have come back here and are carrying on 
propaganda here? 

Mr. Dennis. No. 

Senator Nelson. Are you acquainted with this Mr. Williams? 


Mr. Dexxis. I do not know Mr. Williams or Mr. Eeed. I have 
read their stuif, and John Williams'w wife's book. 

Senator Nelson. You did not come across them in Russia? 

Mr. Dennis. Both of these men had left Soviet Russia before I 
got in there. 

Senator Nelson. Do you find many native-born Americans work- 
ing in this propaganda here? 

Mr. Dennis. I am not prepared to say. I do not know the men 
and their history well enough to say, sir. 

Senator Overman. What is the meaning of the word " soviet"? 

Mr. Dennis. The nearest translation would be " committee," or 
" conference.'" '' Conference," I think, would perhaps be the nearest 
English equivalent. 

Senator Overman. What percentage of the people of Russia are 
educated I 

3Ir. Dennis. The figures vary. The figures as to illiteracy run 
anywhere from 70 to 85 per cent. It depends upon what man you 
happen to be reading. I do not think they Imow Sinything about 
accurate statistics in Russia. 

Senator Over:man. Under the old regime, did they have any pub- 
lic schools? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes; about 5 per cent of the people, under the old 
regime, were permitted a real education, according to the best au- 
thority that I can get. There are some figures on that, which, so 
far as I know, are accurate enough, as to education, schools, and so 
forth, and how many children actually had a chance to go to school 
in Russia. 

Senator Nelson. But the Russian peasants, as a rule, are illiterate^ 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. I do not know of anybody who knows the 
situation thoroughly, who talks about the situation in Russia as a 
democracy. I have heaixl many people talk about it as a great de- 
mocracy. To my mind that is an absolute misnomer, and is not in 
accordance with the printed and spoken statements of Lenine and 
others, who ought to know wliat kind of a show they are running 
over there. They do not call it that. They specificallj' state that it 
is not a democracy. 

Senator Overman. Not a democracy? 

]\Ir. Dennis. No ; and it is not supposed to be. It is an autocracy 
of the proletariat. 

Senator Overman. They do not want liberty? 

]\Ir. Dennis. Well, they would say they did. They would not 
agree with that. But they want it in a way that is peculiar, accord- 
ing to our ideas in this country. 

Senator Nelson. Thev have in these different mirs or villages, and 
in the wards or portions of cities themselves, their local Soviets, or 
local councils? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And they send representatives to the national 
soviet ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. The head soviet. 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And that constitutes their government, really? 


Mr. Dennis. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Of course, the general soviet has to have admin- 
istrative officers? 

Mr. Dennis. It would be democratic if the people away back in the 
villages and in the factories could elect and send up anybody they 
wanted to, but the fact remains that up to date they have not been 
permitted to. Thej^ have to send Bolsheviks. 

Senator Nelson. Or they will not be received? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. 

Senator Overman. If they elect one of their own men who is an 
anti-Bolshevik, what is the result? They just do not receive him? 

Mr. Dennis. Well, that case I spoke of in the factory at Novgorod 
would be typical. They declared the election null and void and held 
over the old representatives to the soviet. In some cases they told the 
people, " You must elect Bolsheviks and Bolsheviks only." Indeed, 
there is going to be just one class, and one party in this class. 

Senator Nelson. Of course it is only in the territory that the Bol- 
sheviki control, either permanently or temporarily, that they have 
succeeded in forming these local Soviets ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. In the other part of Russia that is in the control 
of the white guard, or the anti-Bolsheviki, they have not adopted 
that system? 

Mr. Dennis. I do not know, because all the time I was there after 
I got in I was in soviet Eussia, and I have no information about the 
outside other than this information. 

Senator Overman. That general congress or assembly representing 
the government is not called the Duma now, under the new system ? 

Mr. Dennis. No. 

Senator Overman. What do they call it? 

Mr. Dennis. It is called the central soviet. 

Senator Nelson. The have abolished the legislative duma, have 

Mr. Dennis. It is very interesting to note that these Soviets all the 
way around will not take orders from anybody unless they want to. 
If it fits in with their plan, well and good. If it does not, they do not 
obey. It is the same way with the committee. If they do not do the 
right thing, they fire them and get another that will, and they get 
quick action. 

Senator Overman. Will they have a general law for the general 
soviet itself? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes; if it happens to tally with what they want to do. 
Of course, there has been a flood of " decrets." Every man in a 
town that has any power issues a decret, and sometimes they are 
wise decrets and looking to the best interests of the people, but at 
other times they are the most idealistic things you ever saw, and at 
other times they are perfectly wild and harebrained ; but nevertheless 
they are issued and plastered up on the walls of the town. 

Senator Nelson. Is it not a fact that the only cohesive principle 
there is in theii' government at present is the reign of terror they 
carry on? 

Mr. Dennis. I should say that in the beginning its power was de- 
rived from machine guns. 


Senator Overman. Are they manufacturing munitions? 

Mr. Dennis. I know of only one plant that ran for a short time, 
but they had enough out of the supplies of old Russia to keep them 
going for their military operations. Of course, with this new army 
which they are getting I do not know what they will do. They had 
called five years to the colors when I left, and they were very much 
afraid of that army. They did not know what to do with it, whether 
to arm it or not to arm it. Of course, they keep the army up now, 
because if a factory closes down and the workmen are thrown out oi 
a job and have nothing to do, they put them in the army and pay 
them a certain amount each month. It was 400 rubles when I was in 
Xijni Novgorod. I think it is higher now. They supported the men 
and their families. That is the kind of coercion that keeps the red 
army together. 

Senator Overman. Have the Bolsheviki got woman suffrage? Do 
the women take part in these meetings? 

Mr. Dennis. I never saw very many of them in these meetings, 
but they have it on paper ; yes, sir. 

Maj. Humes. The money they pay to the soldiers simply comes 
from the printing press. They make money on the printing press 
as they need it to pay these soldiers, do they not? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. I had at one time the figures, put out by the 
head man of the government, of the deficit on the railroad — ^the esti- 
mated deficit — amounting to I forget how many hundred millions of 
rubles, and the amount of tlie factory and industry deficit, and so on. 

On the Volga River all the traffic had stopped and there were at 
least 200 boats, some of them passenger boats, the finest I ever saw on 
any river, standing idle, and the workmen with their families were 
living on them and being paid by the government from time to time 
as they could get the money down to them. 

Senator O^'eksian. The commerce on the river then, had practi- 
cally ceased? 

Mr. Dennis. Virtually so. It was down at the lowest ebb, on ac- 
count of the absence of coal or oil. The thing was petering out be- 
cause of no fuel. 

Senator Nelson. In normal times there was an immense water 
commerce on the Volga? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes; it is a great center, with vessels of all kinds 
there. The flour mills there were closed, and all the factories were 
closed except one when I left. 

Senator Overman. Was there any schedule on the railroads ? 

Mr. Dennis. It is an amazing thing that the railroad organization 
has kept going. The railroad guild, perhaps you might call it, has 
kept going against tremendous odds, and they have maintained a 
passenger service. The freight service is badly disorganized. 

In all Russia, in about 10 months while I was there, I never but 
once in any state anywhere in Russia saw carpenters or masons 
working. Never but once did I see men with hammers and nails and 
feaws in their hands. 

Senator Nelson. There was not any building going on? 

Mr. Dennis. Absolutely nothing. The whole thing was going to 
destruction. I saw a band stand being built. That was the only 
thing I ever saw in process of construction in Russia. 


Senator Overman. What are the houses of the peasants con- 
structed of? 

Mr. Dennis. Logs, where they can get them. They are fine log 

Senator IS'elson. With thatched roofs? 

Mr. Dennis. Sometimes ; but log houses, well built. 

Senator Wolcott. Were the schools in operation? 

Mr. Dennis. Not during the summer, and there was much dis- 
cussion in Nijni Novgorod as to whether they would open this fall 
or not, on account of financial difficulties. 

ijenator Overman. Were the farms in operation, or had many of 
them left the farms? 

Mr. Dennis. I read an article not long ago in some American 
magazine, by an American Avhom I knew over there, in which he 
said that the acreage this year was about 10 per cent. That, to my 
mind, is not anywhere near the fact in the case. In the districts 
which I loiew from my personal knowledge and from information 
which I got in Nijni Novgorod and from information which we got 
from people from the other sections who came into the consulate in 
Moscow, 75 would be very much nearer the truth. 

Senator Nelson. Seventy-five per cent? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. Others even put it higher than that. But in my 
opinion, the crops were very good. I am not a prophet, but if they 
had the brains for organization and could get their traffic organized 
so that they could distribute it, I believe there ig enough stuff in 
soviet Russia to feed the Russians; not well, but to keep them from 

Senator Nelson. What is their wheat? Is it spring wheat or win- 
ter wheat? 

■ Mr. Dennis. Both, I believe. We could go from Nidjni Novgorod 
down the Volga River and up jthe Kama River to Perm, and buy 
white flour pretty reasonably. A friend of mine went, and got flour 
for 12 rubles a pood, or 36 English pounds. 

Senator Overman. Are these peasants most hospitable in their 
nature ? 

Mr. Dennis. As individuals; yes, sir, they are. You could buy 
flour for 10 rubles a pood, but they would not allow you to take it 
out of the city, or into a different State. You could not take it 
across the line. My man got back because he Avas working for an 
American, and mj' English friend got back because he had a British 
passport, but a man who lived within two blocks of me in Nijni 
Novgorod had the flour taken away from him. 

Maj. Humes. He was a Russian? 

Mr. Dennis. He was a Russian. It was possible for a German to 
go there and buy flour by the thousand poods and take it out 
without any difficulty. He got it out of that State, but it did not 
go into Germany. There was great ojDposition on the part of the 
people to Germany getting stuff out of Russia, and trains of cars 
had a wav of being sidetracked and turning up somewhere else. 

Senator Overman. I should think that after this war and so many 
people being killed, they would have a great antipathy to the Ger- 


Mr. Dennis. I think the sentiment of the bourgeois class could 
be summed up by what a man whom I knew pretty well said to me. 
He said : " I know it is a mistake for us to want the Germans to 
come in here. I know in the end we will regret it, and we would 
much rather have somebody else come, but nobody else will come, 
and it is ' any port in a storm.' If the Germans come, my life and my 
property will be safe." I do not blame them at all for feeling that 
way about it. 

Senator Wolcott. Is there any breakdown of the moral standards 
in this Bolshevik regime? 

Mr. Dknxis. There has been a lot of talk about it, and about these 
proclamations which have appeared in American newspapers, and 
those proclamations in two cases I loiow of were actually put up; 
but whether they were put up by the government or not is a very 
large question in my mind. 

Senator Wolcott. Did they purport to be official proclamations? 

Mr. Dennis. They were put up in the city of Samara, signed by 
the anarchists, and about two days later, as quick as they could get 
out an answer to it, the anarchists came out with another proclama- 
tion which they pasted up over the town, saying that the first one 
had not been sent out by them, but had been sent out by the enemies 
of the anarchists to discredit that group. I am inclined to believe 
that story. It was about the nationalization of women. 

Senator Nelson. The}^ are opposed to religion, are they not? 

Mr. Dennis. The Bolsheviks? 

Senator Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. And they advocate a sort of what in this country 
we call " free love," do they not ? 

Mr. Dennis. I have never seen any official statement of that kind. 
They are opposed to religion, and were very much opposed to the 
Y. M. C. A., here and there. 

Senator Nelson. What was their grievance against the Y. M. C. A. ? 

Mr. Dennis. A tool of capitalism. 

Senator Overman. How did they feel toward the Red Cross? 

Mr. Dennis. All right, so far as I know. 

Senator Wolcott. Was the Salvation Army in Russia? 

Mr. Dennis. I never saw it — yes, I did. I saw two of them. 

Senator Wolcott. Did you ever notice any outcry against the 
Salvation Army people? 

Mr. Dennis. I know nothing about that. The two that I saw were 
taking care of an orphan asylum where there Avere a lot of little chil- 
dren. I imagine they were very glad to have them do it. The organi- 
zation, or lack of organization, was so very bad in Petrograd that 
during the last week in April, when they dumped into Petrograd 
the first 1,500 prisoners who came back from Germany — Russians 
released from the German prisons; they dumped these men into 
the great station in Petrograd, all of them sick, and very few of 
them able to walk, and there was no organization in that great city 
to look after those men — that was the most terrible thing that I saw 
in Russia. 

Senator Nelson. They looked starved and emaciated? 

Mr. Dennis. Terrible. You could not overpaint that picture. 


Senator Nelson. And were terribly broken? 

Mr. Dennis. You could not overpaint the picture of those men. 
The few who were able to go out came down the Nevski Prospect. 
Petrograd is a pretty blase city by this time, it has been through 
•a good deal, and it takes something to stir them up, but these men 
in knots of two and three would stand on the street there and beg, 
and they poured money into their caps — the people on the streets — 
but there was no organization to take care of them at all. If there 
^ver was anybody who needed a Red Cross outfit, and needed an 
efficient one, with nurses, it was that crowd of 1,500 men. After 
that the American Y. M. C. A. tried to do something. I think 
-certain Eussian representatives wanted tlie Americans to be allowed 
to endeavor to go on and accomplish something ; but what they have 
clone I do not know. 

Senator Oveesiax. How is the ordinary peasant as a family man? 
Does he love his family and love his children ? 

Mr. Dennis. So far as I know, yes, sir; and I wish to say that in 
general I liked them very much. I do not know of any foreigner 
who has lived in Russia for any length of time who does not love the 
Russian people and their qualities. They are what we call, out in the 
•country that I come from, home folks, neighborly; but, of course, 
under these conditions, naturally, with a mob spirit turned loose 
in a crowd, they are a very different people. I presume that is true 
of any primitive people. Besides, up until August 3, when they 
arrested all foreigners with the exception of Americans, up to that 
time, outside of tfulking with men who had lived in America, I 
never received anything but reasonably courteous treatment, and 
mostly absolutely courteous treatment — warm, courteous treatment — 
from any Russian to whom I said merely, " I am an American." I 
did not have to tell him what my business was or anything about it. 

Senatoi' Oveeman. They did not seem to have any feeling, much, 
against the Americans? 

Mr. Dennis. Every Russian peasant, even though he does not 
know what America is or where it is, perhaps, has a warm asso- 
ciation of feeling about America — that it is a free country. 

Senator Wolcott. How many of these people who had come from 
America and were in office under the Bolshevik government would 
you estimate that you saw, speaking in proportion ? 

Mr. Dennis. That I personally saw and talked with ? 

Senator Wolcott. Or that you know of, either by your own 
observation or from those in whom you have confidence? 

Mr. Dennis. Our general opinion in Moscow was that anywhere 
irom 20 to 25 per cent of the commissars in Soviet Russia had lived 
in America. 

Senator Wolcott. Did you form any estimate as to the number in 
office in Petrograd ? 

Mr. Dennis. No. 

Senator Wolcott. They were not all from New York City, I take 
it from what you said a while ago, but they were from different 
parts of the United States— congested centers? 

Mr. Dennis. Always from industrial centers. 

Senator Overman. Do you know any of them that have been natu- 
ralized in this country? 


Mr. Dennis. Xo. At least, not one of them would say he had been. 
I asked two, I recall, and they said they had not. One had lived here 
13 years, according to his story, and tallied English very well. 

Senator Xelson. Did you find them to be from Chicago, usually? 

Mr. Denxis. I found them to be from industrial centers near Chi- 
cago. One man when I bade liim good-by said, " Good-by. I will see 
you in about 10 years. We are coming over to America to pull off 
this same show." I told him I would be there. 

Senator Wolcott. These men who were from America who were 
in oiEce there were of what nationahty ? 

Mr. Dexnis. I beg pardon^ 

Senator "Wolcott. Ihese men who had been in America, and were 
in office over there, were of what nationality ? 

'Sir. De-\nis. With ,only one exception, of my personal knowledge, 

Senator AVolcott. "\Miat nationality was that one exception? 

Mr. Dennis. Russian. 

Senator Wolcott. You said a while ago that you were convinced 
in your own mind that there is organized propaganda in this country 
to spread this Bolsheviki thing to America. In substantiation of 
that statement you cited this Chicago meeting Avliere you lieard the 
doctrine preached and well received. Have you any other substantiul 
facts that point to the theory that there is an organized propaganda 
here, financed here, to spread this soviet government to America ? 

Mr. Dennis. Xothing that I thinlv is not already in the hands of 
the Government ; nothing new. 

Senator Overman. Have you made any report to tire Department 
of Justice or the Secretary of State? 

Mr. Dennis. When I returned to America I came here to AA'ashing- 
ton and rejjortod to the consular staff. 

Senator Overman. To the State Department? 

Mr. Dennis. To the State Department. I was then interviewed by 
a number of men in various departments, the Russian war board, 
and one or two others. Maj. Miles, I believe, was one. 

Senator 0^t5rman. Will j'ou send us a copy of that report? 

Mr. Dennis. I made no report at that time. I have just returned 
to America, and came directly here from Xew York, about Novem- 
ber 1. 

Senator Overman. You made no report about tliis organization 
over here? 

]\Ir. Dennis. Xo, sir: I knew noticing about it at that time. Amer- 
ica had been a closed book to me for one year. 

Senator Wolcott. You saj^ the information that this propaganda 
is afoot in this country is now in the hands of the Government ? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir: such information as I have. 

Senator Wolcott. Is the information you refer to now as being 
in the possession of the Government information that you yourself 
gave or discovered? 

Mr. Dennis. Only in part. Some of it I ran across, and some of 
it I got from those who were investigating the situation. 

Senator Overman. Maj. Humes, have you investigated that matter 
with the department ? 

Maj. Htjmes. I have been in touch with all of the departments. 


Senator ^WoLcoTT. We will eventually get that information, will 

Maj. Humes. I think so; yes, sir. 

Senator Wolcott. I think we should ha-^e it, because that is the 
main thing we are after. 

'Senator Overman. That is \\ hat we are investigating, principally — 
the basis of this investigation. Speaking from your own knowledge 
and from general information, what do you think is the extent of 
this propaganda in this country? 

Mr. Dennis. AVell, there are undoubtedly people who are inter- 
ested in spreading this propaganda, who have a pretty fair organi- 
zation that extends from New York to San Francisco. They have 
divided this country up into sections and put it out under various 
leaders to handle. 

Senator Overman. Do you know, fronv what you have heard, 
whether it is growing? 

Mr. Dennis. No; I do not. I should say the growth of it would 
depend in large part upon the industrial conditions during the com- 
ing months — employment or unemployment. 

Senator Wolcott. Did you come across Col. Thompson in Eussia ? 

Mr. Dennis. He had left before I got there. 

Senator Wolcott. Did you come across Mr. Eaymond Kobins 'i 

Mr. Dennis. I met him a couple of times in Moscoav. 

Senator Wolcott. In what capacity was he acting at the time 
when you met him ? 

Mr. Dennis. The only one that he had — as the head of the Red 
Cross. As far as I know, that was the only official position he had 
a,t any time. 

Senator Wolcott. Did you have any opportunity to observe his 
relations with the Bolsheviki? 

Mr. Dennis. Very little. I talked with him at length one day 
concerning the Bolsheviki there, because he had been in Moscow 
longer than I had. I got there after the revolution. I missed that, 
and I A\-anted to know more about it. 

Senator Wolcott. Was his attitude one of sympathy with it or 

Mr. Dennis. As I understood him at that time, his attitude was 
that of — well, sympathy is not exactly the word — recognition of 
them, because they were the people who were in, control; not because 
of what they stood for or their methods, but because they were the 
people in control. I remember specifically that he used the phrase, 
" They are the people Avith the guts." 

Senator Nelson. And they ought to be recognized, because they 
were in control. Was that his theory? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes ; they were the only people who seemed to have an 
organization and the ability to run the show. 

Senator Nelson. And, therefore, he was for them? 

Mr. Dennis. Therefore, as I understood it, he was in favor of 
dealing with them as representing Eussia. He knew them all and 
was on speaking terms with them and kept in touch with them — the 
leaders of the movement. He was in Moscow at that time. 

Senator Overman. Did you know Trotsky? 


Mr. Denxis. 'No, sir; I never met him personally. I beard him 
talk once. 

Senator Otermax. Where did you hear him talk, at Petrograd or 
Moscow ? 

Mr. Dexxis. Moscow. As I judge the situation, Trotzky was the 
firebi'and of this group, taking the three of them, Lenine, Tchitcherin, 
and Trotslfy. 

Senator Nelson. Who was the firebrand? 

Mr. Denxis. Trotsky. He is a highly emotional chap. 

Senator Overman. Does he make a good speech? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes; he makes a very fine, fiery speech, and he is a 
chap who believes, as we understood the situation, in carrying this 
thing through according to plan with absolute implacability toward 
the bourgeoise group. From what I iinow of the situation, this story 
that appeared in the American newspaper a while ago, that there had 
been a break between Trotsky and Lenine, sounded quite reasonable, 
because it was Trotsky who, when they arrested all the English, 
French, and other allies, Americans excepted, wanted to hold them 
as hostages. 

Senator Nelson. Did he want the Americans arrested, too ? 

Mr. Dennis. I never knew. I never could find out why they were 
not arrested. 

Senator Nelson. Were the Americans arrested ? 

Mr. Dennis. Individuals were in outlying cities, like Mr. Eoger 
Simmons, at Vologda, Mr. Leonard and Mr. Berry, at Tsaritzin, and 
there may have been others. 

Senator Overman. When did you leave? 

Mr. Dennis. On September 2. 

Senator Overman. Why did you leave? 

]Mr. Dennis. It was getting a bit warm. All the allied powers had 
withdrawn from Russia, and there was no place to go. 

Senator Nelson. Which way did j'ou come out? 

Mr. Dexxis. I was with Dr. Huntington, who testified here, I 
believe. We were all on the same train. 

Senator Wolcott. You all came together? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. Did you have to go around by Sweden? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. We wanted to go to Archangel, but you 
could not get across the Volga. There were some tentative advances 
made to the German Government to issue us a safe conduct across the 
Baltic to Stockholm. 

Senator Nelson. The Germans were in possession of Finland at 
that time? 

Mr. Denxis. Yes. We asked them to guarantee us a safe conduct, 
and we waited for some time, and finally the Diet of Finland guar- 
anteed us a safe conduct through Finland. 

Dr. Huntington must have told you of our experience in Petro- 
grad; how they nearly refused to let us go, and refused to respect 
the orders of Tchitcherin, Lenine, and Trotsky. 

Senator Overman. That man Tchitcherin is a Russian, I suppose? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. 

Senator Overman. Where is he from? 


Mr. De]^nis. He is a man of some rank ; a nobleman by birth, I have 
forgotten what; a well-educated man, and a man of wealth at one 
time ; a very able gentleman. 

Senator ISTelson. The last legation to get out of there was the 
Norwegian Legation, and I was reading an account last night in the 
newspaper of how long it took them to get out of Petrograd over to 
Finland. They were held up time and again on the journey. Evi- 
dently they wanted to bleed them and get money from them. 

Mr. Dennis. I do not know how successful they were with them. 
We were bled. 

Senator Nelson. They were not bled, but they were delayed. 

Mr. Dennis. We paid and got out. 

Senator Wolcott. Did you ever come across Dr. Harold Williams 
over there? 

Mr. Dennis. Dr. Harold Williams ? No, sir. The only Williams I 
knew was not a doctor, but was a banker from Waterloo, Iowa ; the 
only man by the name of Williams I ever met in Eussia. 

Senator Nelson. Were there many Americans in business over in 
Eussia ? 

Mr. Dennis. I heard much of other nationalities. I should think 
there were a few. The Germans were in business very largely, but 
there were very few Americans in Eussia. 

Senator Nelson. Did you notice the agricultural implements that 
they had on the farms there? Were they American implements or 
were they German ? 

Mr. Dennis. I do not know, except that the International Har- 
vester Company has been in Eussia for a long time, and has a great 

plant and has a big business there. Mr. over here can tell you 

more about that company's establishment than I can. 

Senator Overman. Did they shut up their shop ? 

Mr. Dennis. It Mas running when Mr. left. He can tell 

you more about what happened than I can, because it was his busi- 
ness to run that factory. 

Senator Overman. Maj. Humes, have you any more questions? 

Maj. Humes. You have spoken about the terrorism toward the 
bourgeoisie. Was that terrorism confined to the bourgeoisie, the so- 
called upper classes, or was it directed against some groups of the 
proletariat as well? 

Mr. Dennis. It was at tijnes directed against the proletariat when 
they did not follow orders, when they went out to take food at fixed 
prices. There have been some very good sized fights between the 
peasants and the red guard over that food question, because the 
peasant was not to pay taxes; and personally I am quite convinced 
that when the peasant got land, the man who actually got the land 
was through with the revolution right then and there, and if they 
had let him alone he would have been all right. But what can he 
buy? What can he do with his money when he does get money? 
And they come out and take the food supplies away from him at 
fixed prices away below the market price. He is very bitter against 
it. I have had a number of them tell me themselves what they thought 
about it, and that the old days were better. 

Senator Overman. This red fiag, is that on their public buildings, 
and on the streets, everywhere? 


Mr. Dennis. Oh, yes. 

Senator OvER:^rAX. Just a pure red flag; nothing on it? 

Mr. Dennis. Sometimes it had mottoes on it, but they varied. I 
do not know this, I do not laiow that anybody does, but I felt quite 
sure that if the Eusisan people, supposing that the peasants are 80 
to 85 per cent of the population, were let alone to organize their 
form of government, it would be an advanced socialistic govern- 
ment, because of the fact that 95 per cent of them have lived all 
their lives in this conununistic form of government. But they would 
do it by peaceful means. It is the object of the Mensheviki, as of 
the Bolsheviki, to establish a socialistic form of goverimient, but 
the one wants to do it by the most drastic revolutionary methods, 
and the other by evolution. Of course, in industry, the fact that 
all industry has gene to pot is due to a number of causes; lack of 
ability to get raw materials, first, and secondly, lack of trained brains. 

Senator Nelson. And a disinclination of the men to work, too? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. The Russian people very much love to talk, 
and this gives them a free opportunity. 

Senator Nelson. Then the system will break down from three 
causes, lack of raw materials, lack of competent men to run it, and 
disinclination of workingmen to take hold and work? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes; and lack of ability of the right juan, when they 
find him, to give orders to anybody and be sure that they will be 
obeyed. I have known a c:isp where the trained men have gone back, 
nt the request of the government, and endeavored to do this and 
that on the railroads and in the factories, and they would put in a 
certnin reform and want to change a certain thing. It did not please 
the workman. All right, that settled it. The government has not 
the authoritj' to go down there and do it, unless it is with the machine 
gun. Every man is a law unto himself, in this dispensation. 

Maj. Humes. Under the constitution, all agricultural implements 
become the property of the state. What has been done in carrying 
that provision into effect? 

Mr. Dennis. I du not kn( w, hut I would say nothing had been done. 
There is an amazing number of things on pa]oer that ha'^c never leen 
canied into effect, l)ocause they have no authority or organization. 
Russia is more like a kaleidoscope than anything else. It switches all 
the time, and it is a wise man who can plot the thing, and make a 
blue print of it. 

Maj. Humes. You say that the Russian people like to talk? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. 

Maj. Humes. Does the soviet government permit, either in the 
public press or in public meetings, free expression of sentiments 
other than in support of their own activities and government ? 

Mr. Dennis. At the present time there is no public press except 
the soviet press. There are only Bolshevist newspapers at the present 

Maj. Humes. And they will not allow the publication of anything 
else but Bolshevik newspapers ? 

]\Ir. Dennis. No, sir. There is nothing else. 

Senator Nelson. They do not know anything about freedom of 
the press, then ? 

Mr. Dennis. Oh, no ; oh, no. 

Senator Nelson. Or free soeech? 


Mr. Dennis. I can not imagine that any discerning- 

Senator Nelson. Or anything but Bolshevik speech ? 

Mr. Dennis. I can not imagine that any Russian would attempt 
to speak in public attacking the Bolsheviki. His shrift would lae 
very short. 

Senator Nelson. It is strange that when they come over here they 
advocate free speech and freedom of the press, and complain against 
our Government, and they will not apply that paregoric over there. 

Mr. Dennis. They will undoubtedl3' have free speech when all 
their people are one class, and all are Bolshevik. [Laughter.] 

Senator Nelson. Yes. 

Senator Wolcott. I have heard this story, and I am going to tell 
it to you and see if you know of any similar occurrence, and see if 
you think it ties in with the general attitude of mind of the Bolshe- 
vik masses over there. At an election I understand they vote by 
holding up a hand, and on one occasion an election was held and 
the Eed Guard was on hand and the people were asked, "All in favor 
of such and such a thing, hold up their hands." Of course, most of 
them put up their hands. Then the question was put, "All who are 
opposed, put up their hands," and three or four very unwise crea- 
tures put up their hands in opposition to the Bolshevik side of this 
election, whereupon they were hauled out by the Eed Guard and shot. 
It was, therefore, a unanimous vote. 

Mr. Dennis. Yes. 

Senator Wolcott. Did you ever hear of any such occurrence as 

Mr. Dennis. I have no evidence of that. Oh, that is quite pos- 
sible. Why not? 

Senator Wolcott. You think it would not be a surprising thing if 
that is done under this regime over there ? 

Mr. Dennis. Why, no. I know of things which are quite equal to 
that — ^actually know of them; but not exactly like that. 

Maj. Humes. What instances do you know of, similar to that? 

Mr. Dennis. For example, they have in Eussia an extraordinary 
commission for the suppression of the counter-revolution, sabotage, 
and — what else is it ? — speculation, which can do anything it pleases ; 
which has absolute authority. They arrest people, try them, convict 
them, execute them, and do not have to say a word to anybody about 
that. You take a country overturned like that, and turn loose a lot 
of men, some of them honest, some of them dishonest, some of them 
able to see things clearly, and others fanatics of the wildest type, and 
put them in there with that power, and what will happen? It is 
bound to happen. • 

Mr. Leonard, who is here, will tell you mterestmg things about that 
extraordinary commission and their doings. 

Senator Nelson. You are acquainted with Mr. Leonard? 

Mr. Dennis. Yes, sir. 

Mai. Humes. Mr. Leonard is here to-day. 

Mr. Dennis. I just happened to hear his voice over here, so that 
I knew that he was here. -^ ,t.. 

Senator Overman. Is there anything else, Ma]or, with this 

witnGSs E 

Maj. Humes. I believe not. We are very much obliged to you, sir. 

85723—19 13 



(The witness was sworn by the chairman.) 

Senator Otekmax. Where are you from? 

Mr. Leonard. St. Paul, Minn. 

Senator Overman. How long is it since you returned from Eussia? 

Mr. Leonard. I left Petrograd on the 16th of November, and 
returned here on the 3d of December. 

Senator Overman. You came out with this colony? 

jNIr. Leonard. No, sir. 

Senator Overman. What were you doing in Eussia? 

Mr. Leonard. I went over there with the Y. M. C. A. to work 
with the soldiers in the field, and then was with the Eussian soldiers 
at the front, and then acted as vice consul. 

Senator Overman. You worked on the front with the soldiers, 
did you ? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir ; for quite a time after the revolution, from 
August until November, 1917. 

Senator Overman. Did you observe in their army this Bolshevik 
propaganda going around among the soldiers? 

Mr. Leonard. One could not help noticing it. The soldiers were 
selling all their things to the Germans. They were selling machine 
guns for 5 rubles. They would sell a 6-inch gun for a bottle of 
brandy, and then start for home. 

Senator Wolcott. Were they selling any American-made ammuni- 
tion to the Germans? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Wolcott. And American-made guns? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes; and you would see a lot of Winchester am- 
munition over there — U. M. C. 

Senator Wolcott. That is, munitions and guns that we, in America, 
had made and sent to Eussia ? 

Mr. Leonard. It was practical}}' all, though, munitions that had 
been bought before we entered the war. That is, it was bought on 
contracts between American manufacturers and the Eussian Govern- 
ment, and was not furnished by our Government. 

Senator Wolcott. It was their property? 

Mr. Leonard. It was their property. 

Senator Wolcott. And not the property of the American Govern- 

Mr. Leonard. No. 

Senator Overman. Did you have any speakers or preachers there? 

Mr. Leonard. We had them at the Kiev front. They sent 400 
men through the lines who could speak the Eussian language, and 
who were to conduct propaganda. Most of the propaganda came 
from behind the lines, though. There were, of course, many who 
were fraternizing on the front, but the most deadly propaganda was 
that carried on behind the lines. 

Senator Nelson. Among the soldiers ? 

Mr. Leonard. Among the soldiers ; yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. Who were the men who were carrying that on? 

Mr. Leonard. Members of the Bolshevik party. 

Senator Nelson. Were there any men who had been in this coun- 


Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Nelsox. Do you knoAv many of them? 

Mr._ Leonard. No, sir ; I did not. 

Maj. Humes. Do you know who they are, so that you can hand 
the committee the names of any of them ? 

Mr. Leonard. No, sir; I would not know that; and when I say 
that, it is not of my personal knowledge. I talked with some soldiers 
who told me that some of these agents had been in New York for 
a year or two. 

Senator Nemon. Where were you when the Kerensky government 
came into being? 

Mr. Leonard. I was out in Siberia at that time. 

Senator Nelson. You were in Siberia? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. When did you go into Bussia? 

Mr. Leonard. I went into Eussia in August of 1917. 

Senator Nelson. That was shortly before the Bolshevik govern- 
ment of Trotzky and Lenine came in? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. They came in in November? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Where were you stationed then? 

Mr. Leonard. I was down with some of the troops not far from 

Senator Nei^son. Near Kiev? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Were Russian troops engaged in fighting the 
Germans at that time? 

Mr. Leonard. No, sir. They had practically laid down. A very, 
very small detachment had remained on the front, but there was no 

Senator Nelson. The soldiers had quit fighting? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. They had organized themselves to control the ap- 
pointment of officers and run the whole thing? Is not that so? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And refused to fight? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And was not that one of the main causes that 
led to the fall of the Kerensky government and the advance of the 
Lenine-Trotzky government? 

Mr. Leonard. The Russians now state that one of the causes of 
the fall of the Kerensky government was that advance that they at- 
tempted in June. 

Senator Nelson. They made a successful advance at first? 

Mr. Leonard. For about a day. 

Senator Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Leonard. But that advance was made by a very few. The 
onlv forces that charged were made up of volunteer officers who took 
rifles and then the Czecho-Slovak troops. The others refused to ad- 
vance with them. In many cases they retreated, so that the officers 
who advanced, and the Czecho-Slovaks, were very badly cut up. 


Senator Nelson. Where were you when the acute portion of the 
revolution broke out, in November? 

Mr. Leonard. I was down near Kiev, 18 hours from Kiev, with 
some troops. 

Senator Nelson. What general violence or anarchy took place 
there that you observed? 

Mr. Leonard. None took place right there. These troops were 
half-way loyal, and so they remained quiet; but in Kiev there were 
two distinct fights, one occurring some time in November, and the 
other, I think, was in Februar3^ 

Senator Nelson. Yes. Kiev is in the Ukraine country — the 
capital ? 

]Mr. Leonard. The capital of the Ukraine, on the Dneiper River. 

Senator Nelson. Who were in possession of Kiev at that time, 
the Russian forces? 

Mr. Leonard. The Russian forces were in possession ; and then the 
first fight was when the Bolsheviki took the power, and the later 
fights were between — there were all sorts of fights, the LTkrainian 
parties wanting the independence of the Ukraine and the Bolsheviki 
opposing, and it was a very complicated situation. 

Senator Nelson. Did not the Bolsheviki stir up and help to 
organize the so-called Ukrainian Republic? 

Mr. Leonard. No, sir : I think the first Ukrainian party was a party 
■■iesiring the independence of the Ukraine, and was more of the 
"bourgeois class. 

Senator Nelson. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Leonard. The Ukrainian movement had been fostered for the 
last 10 or 15 years in the Austrian part of the Ukraine, in Galicia, 
and after the government was crushed, the Bolsheviki sent their 
agents in there, and there is a very strong Bolsheviki party in the 

Senator Nelson. And you recollect that at the time the treaty of 
Brest-Litovsk was formed that the Ukraine had representatives there, 
and by the permission of Trotsky they were permitted to sign that 
treaty ? 

]\[r. Leonard. Ye3, sir. As I understand it, the Bolsheviki did 
not desire their presence there, and wanted to carry out the whole 
thing themselves. However, the Ukrainians sent their delegation and 
forced — I do not know in what way, but they forced — their recogni- 
tion there. 

Senator Nelson. Where were you when the treaty of Brest-Litovsli 
was entered into? 

Mr. Leonard. Also down near Kiev. 

Senator Nelson. You were still there? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. How long did you remain at Kiev ? 

Mr. Leonard. I beg your pardon. I left Kiev the 1st of December, 
and then 

Senator Nelson. Were the Russians then in possession of Kiev? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. The Bolsheviki? 

Mr. Leonard. The Bolsheviki. 

Senator Nelson. The Bolsheviki had gained possession? 


Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Was there any bloodshed or riot when they took 
possession ? 

Mr. Leonard. There were two fights in Kiev, both of which I 
missed; very heavy fighting. I think the heaviest street fighting 
occurred in Kiev ; as heavy as that which occurred in Moscow. 

Senator Nelson. Between what parties, between the Reds and the 

Mr. Leonard. Yes ; between the Reds and the Whites. 

Senator Nelson. That is, the Bolsheviki and the anti-Bolsheviki ? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And the Bolsheviki were finally successful, wera 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. And got possession of the town? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Was there very much destruction of life and 
property ? Will you tell us what went on there at that time ? 

Mr. Leonard. The city was bombarded, and of course there was 
great destruction of the buildings and many people were killed. I 
do not think that many were killed after the second day. They did 
not have anything organized there, and after they got organized 
there was no more indiscriminate shooting. They would not shoot a. 
man unless they knew who he was. 

Senator Nelson. What did the Bolsheviki do after they got con- 
trol of the city? Did they loot property — confiscate property — - 
commandeer it? 

Mr. Leonard. I think the first thing they did was to levy a con- 
tribution of 10,000,000 rubles on the city. 

Senator Nelson. Oh, that was the first thing? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. What else did they do ? 

Mr. Leonard. They put in their agents and took control of the 
mdustries ; put their commissars m there. 

Senator Nelson. Are you acquainted with any of those commissars? 

Mr. Leonard. No ; all I have is what I got in just passing through 
Kiev several times. It was never my headquarters. 

Senator Nelson. Were there any men who had graduated in 
America, over there? 

Mr. Leonard. I would not know them in Kiev. I had no official 
communication with them. 

Senator Wolcott. May I interrupt there, for a question ? 

Senator Nelson. Certainly. 

Senator Wolcott. I would like to know what is the purely English- 
word that is the equivalent of " commissar "? 

Mr. Leonard. There is none. It is a term that at first was very 
loosely applied to any man bearing a commission from the Soviet 
o-overnment. If you are given any job to-day you are called a com- 
missar. Now they have tried to limit that word to a few people,, 
corresponding with these highest councils. That is, in the govern- 
ment they would have their council and commi^ars — a few commis- 
oo^c. "Rnf ihat has been without any success. Everybody who has. 


Senator Nelson. It practically means the same as the English 
word " coinnussioner," in a general way ? "We speak of such and 
such a man as a commissioner, and they call him a commissar. That 
is ifi 

Mr. Leonaed. I guess so. They have adopted the terminology of 
the French revolution, and in some cases they have followed it cor- 
rectly, but in other cases they have not. For instance, any officer in 
control of a station we would call a station master; but they would 
have two men there, a station master who is a railroad man, a 
technical man, and then they would have a commissar, a member of 
the committee, a member of the Bolshevik Party, who would be 
there to control' him and see that he did not do anything against 
the party — to control his actions. And so in any little place they 
would have commissars. 

Senator Nelson. How big a town is Kiev? How manj^ people has 
it, about? 

Mv. Leonabd. I do not know exactly. Its population is over a 
million, but it has such a large refugee population, varying from 
tim;^ to time. 

Senator Nelson. Is it a manufacturing town? 

Mr. Leonard. A manufacturing town to some extent; yes, sir. It 
is a great commercial town. It is the center of the sugar trade. 

Senator Nelson. What did the Bolsheviki do, when they got con- 
trol of the town, about carrying on the industries or operating; or 
what did they do in the way of comnuindeering and taking property 
over ? 

^Ir. Leonard. I do not know. As I said, I just passed through 
Ki^y several times. I was always going through. 

Senator Nelson. "Where did you go to from Kiev after that? 

Mr. Leonakd. I vi'ent to Moscow, and then in January and Febru- 
ary I took a trip through the southern and eastern part of Russia, 
trA'ing to find out if there was an army. 

Senator Nelson. Did you go clown the "V^alley of the Don? 

Mr. Leonard. No, sir. I went down through Kazan. 

Senator Nels'ON. Dowm the "\^olga liiver? 

]Mr. Leonard. Yes. I crossed the "\"olga and then went to Ufa and 
down to Orenberg, and then back. 

Senator Nelson. Did you go up the Kama Eiver? 

Mr. Leonard. No, sir. 

Senator Nelson. Did you go clown near the mouth of the Volga? 

Mr. Leonard. At a later time, but not at this time. 

Senator Nelson. Down at Astrakhan? 

Mr. Leonard. I was stationed at Astrakhan several months later. 

Senator Nelson. How are conditions there? 

Mr. Leonard. In Astrakhan? 

Senator Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Leonard. The town has suffered a good deal. There was fight- 
ing there in 'February, and so the center part of the town is pretty 
well burned down. The Bolsheviki are in control, and there is some 
industry there. Of course, the city is the center of the fish trade, 
and the trouble is that they can not ship the fish away. The trans- 
portation and delivery has practically stopped, so that the town is in 
bad straits. 


Senator Nelson. The country you mention, is not that the country 
of the Don Cossacks? 

Mr. Leonard. That is the country to the west of the lower Volga. 

Senator Nelson. To the west? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes; and immediately on either side of the river 
there is the desert. Some nomad tribes are there with their stock. 

Senator Nelson. How big a town is that, again? How many 
people has it, about? 

Mr. Leonard. I should say about 70,000—100,000. 

Senator Nelson. And the Bolsheviki are in possession of that? 

Mr. Leonard. They were at that time. 

Senator Nelson. At what other jjlaces up north and west of that 
were you at? 

Mr. Leonard. I was in Samara, Saratov, Tsaritzin. 

Senator Nelson. Were those towns in control of the Bolsheviki? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. Also I was at Ekaterinodar. 

Senator Nelson. Did you go as far north as the railroad junction 
at Viatka ? 

Mr. Leonard. No, sir. 

Senator Nelson. That is between Perm and Vologda? 

Mr. Leonard. No, sir; except when I came through from Siberia 
and passed through there. 

Senator Nelson. Tell us what you saw of the operations of the 
Bolshevik influence, and how they carried on things there. 

Mr. Leonard. I think the first thing is that the Bolshevik govern- 
ment is a government principally on paper. In Petrograd and Mos- 
cow, where they have the most able men in the Bolshevik party, they 
are able to some extent to make things go, but in the provinces or in 
any other state aside from those two it is pure chance. They pay no 
attention to the orders from the center. 

I was down at Ekaterinodar. 

(At this point the subcommittee took a recess until 2.30 o'clock 
p. m.) 


(The subcommittee met at 2.30 o'clock p. m., pursuant to the taking 
of recess.) 


Senator Overman. Are you the gentleman that one witness stated 
had been imprisoned ? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Overman. Who imprisoned you? And where were you 
imprisoned ? 

Mr. Leonard. At Tsaritzin. 

Senator Overman. What size town is that? 

Mr. Leonard. About 70,000. 

Senator Nelson. Which way is it f rona Moscow ? 

Mr. Leonard. Southeast on the Volga River. 

CiariotrvT- DvTi^RMAN. Go On aud tell why they put you in jail, how 


Mr. Leonard. I do not know why we were arrested. 

Senator Overman. Were there others besides you? 

Mr. Leonard. There was another American vice counstil, an inter- 
preter. We had received orders to leave the country. The consuls 
were leaving from Moscow, and they sent us word to leave. It was 
impossible to get to Moscow because the river communication had 
been cut, and the Cossacks had control of the river up above, and 
so we started south. About 12 hours after we left they sent a boat 
for us and brought us back. There was a plot to overthrow the Bol- 
shevik government in the town, which was to have taken effect that 
night, six hours after we left. They discovered this plot and also 
found about 10,000,000 rubles buried in the ground, and I guess 
they thought that money had belonged to us. ho they took us back. 
We denied any connection with the government or with the neutral 
government, or with the local soviet. We were arrested by this ex- 
traordinary commission whose purpose was the combating of coun- 
ter revolution, speculation, and sabotage. We were kept in that 
place about six weeks. 

Senator Overman. You were arrested by soldiers? 

Mr. Leonard. By a commissar with an armed guard. 

Senator Nelson. Who was that commissar? Do you know his 

Mr. Leonard. No ; I do not. 

Senator Nelson. Was he a Eussian? 

Mr. Leonard. A Eussian; yes, sir. There were two. One was a 
Eussian and the other was a Jew. About three weeks later this Jew 
commissar was himself arrested. He had tried to steal 2,000 rubles 
from the government. 

We were kept there for six weeks, and it was only because a Bel- 
gian who was living in that town saw us through the window that 
they got any word in Moscow. He took word up to Moscow that we 
were there, and as soon as our consul, Mr. Poole, laiew it, he took 
the matter up with Tchitcherin, their foreign minister, who, to our 
knowledge, sent down at least two telegrams to this extraordinary 

Senator Nelson. The Belgian sent them? 

Mr. Leonard. The Belgian took the word up to Moscow that we 
were in prison, and then Consul General Poole went to see the foreign 
minister about our case, and Tchitcherin sent two telegrams, to our 
knowledge — he may have sent more — ordering them to release us un- 
less they had incriminating evidence against us, in which case order- 
ing that we be sent up to Moscow. They kept those telegrams in 
Tsaritzin, and it was only when a Danish vice consul came down to 
take out the French colony — there was a French colony of 50 people 
there, and the French vice consul had been notified, and he came 
down to get them out — that he threw a bluff and said that we were 
under his protection, and took us up to Moscow. We were in Moscow 
about another three weeks. 

Senator Nelson. Were you under arrest in Moscow ? 

Mr. Leonard. We were in, solitary confinement. 

Senator Nelson. At Moscow? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. In what kind of a prison ? 


Mr. Leonard. The best one I have ever been in. 

Senator Wolcott. Also the vi^orst? 
■ Mr. Leonard. No ; we were in four different ones over there. 

Senator Nelson. You have not told us about the prison where you 
were first kept six weeks. 

Mr. Leonard. We were in a big building that had been comman- 
deered for the use of this extraordinary commission. I think the only 
way you can understand this extraordinary commission is to compare 
it with the inquisition. It has full powers, and in order to pass the 
farce along quickly, it combines the functions of the prosecuting 
attorney and judge, and this building was used as their guard room' 
and barracks for their guards, and the prison. 

Senator Nelson. That is where you were kept ? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes; 14 of us in three little rooms were there for 
three weeks. Then they took us over to the city jail. 

Senator Nelson. What sort of a place was that? 

Mr. Leonard. They put us in a cell that the old regime meant for 
one person, 6 by 13 feet. 

Senator Nelson. How many were in that? 

Mr. Leonard. Five. We were there three weeks, until they took us 
£0 Moscow. 

Senator Overman. Did you have any bed to sleep on? 

Mr. Leonard. The floor. 

Senator Overman. Was it cold ? 

Mr. Leonard. No ; it was in the early autumn they arrested us, the 
middle of August. 

Senator Nelson. How were you supplied with food ? Did you get 
enough food to eat? 

Mr. Leonard. In the first prison, we had quite a bit of black bread 
and soup, meat, and potatoes once a day. In the other place they gave 
us a half a pound of black bread in the morning and a dish of soup 
at noon and some hot water. 

Senator Nelson. And what in the evening? 

Mr. Leonard. Hot water. Then they took us up to Moscow and 
kept us there three weeks. 

Senator Nelson. What kind of a prison did they keep you in 

Mr. Leon'ard. Very good. The rooms were clean and dry,. and they 
had a straw mattress for us. 

Senator Nelson. You had plenty to eat ? 

Mr. Leonard. The Red Cross — the International Red Cross — sent 
us in food that had been given out by the American Red Cross. 
Other than that, we got very little. 

Senator Overman. Were you under guard all the time? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. While we were in the first prison, they had 
guards stationed in the halls. Then when we went down into the city 
jail the doors were locked, of course, and we were supposed to be 
taken out for a walk every day — a half-hour walk — but the place was 
so crowded that we got a walk the first day we were there and the last 
day. The rest of the time we were locked in the cell. 

Senator Overman. You said you were in solitary confinement? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 


Mr. Lf.oxard. They gave you a cell in solitary confinement, kept 
you alone, and you Mere not supposed to talk with anybody. 

Senator Oveebiax. You said that you were with three or four 
other prisoners. 

Mr. Leoxaed. "\Alien we were first in Tsaritzin we were all to- 
gether, biit when we were brought to Moscow we were placed in 
solitary confinement. 

Senator Xelsox. Each man by himself? 

Mr. Leoxard. Yes. sir. 

Senator O^T.E:\rAx. How did you finally get out? 

Mr. Leoxard. The Norwegian legation was exerting pressure all 
the time. But. for one thing, the Bolshevik government wanted us 
to get out. There was a fight all these months between the Bolshe- 
vik government and the extraordinary commission. The extraordi- 
nary commission had been created by the central Bolshevik govern- 
ment, and it had tried to assume all the power to itself, and 
declared that it was mider no control ; that it was not responsible 
to anybodv. They fought for about six weeks or two months as to 
that question, as to whether it was to be independent or not. The 
ministry of the interior maintained that the extraordinary commis- 
sion was responsible to it, and that if the commission refused to do 
what it was directed to do it would be made a separate commissariat 
and have its own people's commissar. This extraordinary commis- 
sion refused that. 

The local s(i\"iets were opposed to this extraordinary commission 
because it had its headquarters in Moscow, and tlien its branches in 
every city, and commissioners would come to a city where they did 
not know tlie situation, did not know the people, did not know the 
Bolsheviki, and would start to make investigations, arresting whom- 
soever they pleased. The Soviets claimed that this extraordinary 
commission should be placed under the control of the Soviets; and 
they also put forth this demand, that before executing a man, the 
extraordinary commission should report to tlie soAiet, and the soviet 
could then look into the matter, and, upon application, could demand 
a stay of execution for 24 hours for further consideration, and if at 
the end of 24 hours the extraordinary commission Avanted to shoot 
him, they could do so. But the commission refused to entertain that 
idea, and as I said, when we were in prison at Tsaritzin the Bolshevik 
minister for foreign affairs, Tchitcherin, telegraphed down demand- 
ing our release, and they ignored it. 

At the same time in this jail there was a Bolshevik commission 
that had been sent clown to see about bringing ovTt oil from the Cau- 
casus, as thei'e was an oil famine in Russia. At the head of it there 
V, as a man who had charge of the distribution of oil in Eussia. 
The oil industry had been nationalized, and he was in charge, and 
his associate was a man detailed from the commissariat of ways and 
communications as an expert adviser. In Tsaritzin these members 
of this oil commission were all arrested. There was some bad feeling 
between the big Bolsheviki in town and the head of this oil commis- 
sion, Makrovsky, I guess, and they arrested them. About two days 
after they arrested them they shot Alexieff, who was the railroad 
adviser, and his two sons, and about three days after that they re- 
ceived a telegram from Lenine — signed " Trotsky by Lenine " — de- 


manding that Makrovsky and Alexieff be sent to Moscow imme- 
diately; that he kneAv them and would answer for them, and de- 
manded that they be released. They had already shot Alexieff, and 
they kept Makrovsky there for at least another three or four weeks, 
just ignoring this order from Lenine. So there was this fight be- 
tween the government and this extraordinary commission. Finally 
the government won out, and when the government won out we were 

Senator Nelson. At Moscow. 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. Then where did you go from there? 

Mr. Leonard. Then we went up to Petrograd and remained there 
for approximately two weeks, as the border was closed at that time, 
and we left Petrograd on the 16th of November. 

Senator Nelson. What occurred while you were at Petrograd? 
What did you see of the Bolshevik government and their operations? 

Mr. Leonard. They had their big celebration, tlieir anniversary of 
their coming into power. A very interesting thing happened. In 
the first days of November the Bolsheviki became very nervous and 
panic-stricken. The situation on the west front before the armistice 
was signed was such that they knew that the allies were winning, and 
they were afraid that Germany would be used by the allies, that the 
allies would join with Germany and march into Eussia and over- 
throw the entir^ Bolshevik movement, and there were rumors in 
Petrograd that the Germans were marching on Petrograd, and were 
alread}!' coming. Tliey were just panic-stricken, and tlie head of 
the extraordinary commission in Petrograd asked protection of 
the head of the International Eed Cross. That was a very small or- 
ganization, a new organization which had been established when, the 
American, British, and French Red Cross If ft. They had formed 
this International Eed Cross composed of the Scandanavitui, Dutch, 
and Swiss, and gave the supplies over to them for the relief of for- 
eign citizens in Russia, and they came and asked permission to carry 
on their work; and this man was panic-stricken and excited and he 
said that he would give this permission if they would in return give 
him safe conduct. So he was under the protection of this Interna- 
tional Eed Cross, which indicates how panic-stricken they were. 
Yet the same people a few days before had refused to obey the orders 
of Lenine. 

Then when the revolution broke out iii Germany, they were con- 
fident that the Bolshevik revolution had come in Germany, and 
they were going out to lick the world. So they came from this 
one day when they were absolutely panic-stricken, to two days after- 
wards when they were very cocky, and then they learned tliat it was 
not a Bolshevilf revolution and they set about to make it a Bolshe- 
vik revolution and telegraphed to Liebknecht that they were sending 
a trainload of flour to the Bolsheviki in Berlin, and the Bolshevik 
leaders had daily long-distance communication with the Bolsheviki 
in Berlin ; and then they sent a commission of the ablest agents, the 
best speakers and best propagandists, into Germany with Bolshevik 

Maj. Htjmes. Mr. Leonard, will you tell the committee what you 
saw during the time that you were confined in these jails witli refer- 


ence to the operations of the extraordinary commission, as to the way 
they wtre handling prisoners — that is, disposing of them. 

Mr. Leonard. The}' went on the theory that any man against whom 
. there was any accusation was guilty until he was proved innocent and 
they would receive anonymous letters charging, or some one would 
send warning, that a certain man was engaged in counter-revolution- 
ary activity, and upon that they would arrest him and hold liim for 
months, maybe, before his case would be brought up ; and if they had 
nothing against him they would dismiss him without any explana- 
tion. He was guilty until proved innocent. They were very prim- 
itive in their methods. I know the first room we were in when 
arrested we shared with an Italian, who was guilty, all right, but 
they tried to press the inquiry, and they would take him out about 
midnight or at three o'clock in the morning and take him and beat 
him up with their revolvers. He would tell us about it afterwards 
and show the scars. They were shooting men against whom they had 
some proof, some of whom undoubtedly were guilty and others were 
not. They would come in there and say that they were going to call 
the roll, and that these men were going to be sent off to prison — that 
they had been tried and were to be sentenced to two, three, or four 
years in prison — and the next morning the head of the guard, who 
was quite a friend of ours, would tell us where the bullet went in. 
Instead of taking them to prison they would line them up against 
the ditch. 

They brought in one workman vrho was supposed to belong to the 
social revolutionary party, one of the original socialist parties of 
Russia, and told him to sit down and write all he knew, for he was 
to be shot that night. They waited until the next day. 

Senator Nelson. Did they shoot him ? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Did he have a trial ? 

Mr. Leonard. None that we knew of. 

Senator Nelson. Was there any trial at which he was present? 

Mr. Leonard. None that I know of. He may have had something 
in the last hour or so. 

Senator Nelson. They tried men without their being present? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

This Makrovsky, this big, very prominent Bolshevik, told me this, 
and he and I shared a cell for a time. He was fighting with the head 
of this extraordinary commission. 

Senator Nelson. What is his name? 

Mr. Leonard. Makrovsky. 

Senator Nelson. What was his other name? 

Mr. Leonard. That was his original name. 

Senator Nelson. Did he not have an}' other name ? 

Mr. Leonard. None that I knew about. 

Senator Nelson. Go ahead. 

Mr. Leonard. Some people were asked if they knew this man Mak- 
rovskv. A whole line of people were asked, " Do you know this 
mnn ? '" They all said, " No." He turned around in a curious way 
and said, " I know none of these people." And then he asked me, 
" Suppose one of them had said that he knew me, and the others had 
all denied it? " I said, " What would have happened if one had said 
he laiew you? " " I would have been shot." 


Senator Steeling. What was the charge against this man with 
whom you shared this cell ? 

Mr. Leonard. He was accused of participating in this counter- 
revolutionary plot. He made this statement. He said that the heads 
of this commission were degenerates ; that they were not typical Rus- 
sians. I remember that he said the head of this commission was 
nothing but a degenerate, and that if he ever got to Moscow and he 
sa^^" him tliere he would shoot him on the spot, and nobody would say 
anything to him about it. This man also said that the people in the 
center did not know what was going on in the provinces; that they 
had no idea what this commission and people were doing in the 
various cities and provinces. He said, "Why, if Lenine knew this 
he would shoot them all." 

Senator STEELl^G. What did he mean by that; namely, that in the 
various provinces and cities they were not revolutionists'^ 

Mr. Leonard. He meant this, that these people who belonged to the 
Bolshevik part}', who held the Bolshevik offices, and who were doing 
exactly as they pleased, were not obeying the orders or the instruc- 
tions or the spirit of the central government. 

Senator Steeling. The central government as represented by Len- 
ine and Trotzky ? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes ; by Lenine and Trotzky. This man Makrovsky 
had a revolver when he came down there and had a permit signed by 
the head of the all-Russian extraordinary commission for combat, etc. 
The local committee took this revolver away from him. He said, 
" I have a permit here signed by Peters, the head of this commission," 
and they said, " Do you mean to say that we have no power here?" 

yi&j. Hl^ies. Did j'ou ever know Peters? Did you ever come into 
contact with him? 

Mr. Leonard. No, sir. 

Maj. Hujies. Do you know whether it is a fact that he formerly 
was in London ? 

Mr. Leonard. I never heard that he Avas in London. I know his 
wife still is in London. He speaks English very well. 

Maj. Humes. Is he a Russian? 

Mr. Leonard. A Lett. Most of the extraordinary commission in 
Petrograd are Letts. I could speak better Russian than most of tlie 
extraordinary commission in Petrograd, and that is poor enough. 
They could not write. They got a list of prisoners there, and when 
they came in to take them out, they could not read the names, and one 
of the prisoners would have to stand beside them and read the names. 

Senator Overman. They did not give you any trial ? 

Mr. Leonard. No, sir. 

Maj. Humes. How many constitute that extraordinary commis- 


Mr. Leonard. I do not know. The all-Russian commission in 
INIoscow is a ^ er\' elastic structure, and this man Al Peters is the 
actual head. There was another man who was supposed to be the 
head, but Al Peters does all the chair work. It is an extraordinary 
commission for the government of the state. There are no require- 
ments — no specifications. 

Maj. Humes. Now, Mr. Leonard, during your travels through 
Russia did you come in contact with actual examples of terrorism 
and brutality? 


Mr. Leonard. I had been in Astrakhan. I had been sick. Just 
before I was arrested I came up to Tsaritzin, hoping to get better. 
During the first days after we were arrested occurred the attempt on 
the life of Lenine, and just before that two or three of the prominent 
Bolsheviki had been shot and attempts had been made to kill others, 
so the Bolsheviki were getting nervous. There was also a plot in 
Astiakhan to overthrow the government. They had some fighting 
there, and it was while we were in jail that they received a message 
from Astrakhan and published it in the official bulletin, that the mili- 
tary commissar there, a man whom I had known and had dealings 
with, telephoned up and said they had shot 300 officers as retaliation 
for the counter-revolution plot, and as a retaliation for the attempt 
on the life of Lenine. 

Maj. Humes. Those were officers of the former Kussian Army^ 

jMr. Leonard. Yes. That is almost a caste, now. The Bolsheviki 
just say •■ an officer " and that classifies him as belonging to that caste. 

Then in July, down in Tsaritzin, they were taking out men who 
were distinctly of the proletariat but who belonged to this other 
party, the social revolutionary party, as we could see from our cell. 
We did not know how many they were shooting, but the ditch there 
in which tliey were buried grew every night. They were shooting all 
the time. 

Maj. Humes. Do you know anything about looting; did you come 
in contact with any of that? 

Mr. Leonard. You can not stop it. When they come in to take a 
town they just take things. 

Maj. Humes. What did they do with reference to looting houses 
and going through houses after they had taken a town ? 

Mr. Leonard. They do not loot. They say they own all the prop- 
ertj of the nation, that it is all public propertj-, and they just take 
what they want. 

Maj. Humes. All the personal property is the common property 
of each individual in the nation? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes; and then they go in and help themselves. I 
got acquainted with a Jew who had been in New York who was a 
commissar down there; I do not know just what kind. His first act 
on taking office was to distribute all the silk stockings they found 
there to all the peasant women and working women — to all those who 
belonged to labor unions or whose husbands did. The Jew was very 
scared at this time because the Cossacks were coming, and he was 
going to use his American library card as an American passport to 
get out. 

Senator Nelson. What was his name? 

Mr. Leonard. I can not remember. 

Senator Overman. Did you see many of these New York and Chi- 
cago Bolshevik sympathizers? 

Mr. Leonard. I was in the provinces all the time. People who 
came over had an opportunity to get the good jobs, and they were 
in the center. 

Senator O^^erman. They were in with the Bolsheviki? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Overman. Did you talk to anv of them ? 


Mr. Leonard. I talked with just this man. That is the only case 
I knew. 

Senator Nelson. Where had he lived in this country ? 

Mr. Leonard. In New York. 

Senator Nelson. On the East Side? 

Mr. Leonard. Xes, sir. 

Senator Overman. His idea in going over there, Mr. Leonard, 
Avas that he ijiought it was going to be a good time, I guess. 

Mr. Leonard. Thought it was going to be a good time. He 
boasted that he had never done a day's work in his life. 

Senator Nelson. A Hebrew? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And had never done a day's work in his life? 

Mr. Leonard. And did not intend to. 

Senator Overman. And he wanted to come over to this country 
and do the same thing. 

Mr. Leonard. No ; he was worried about his life, and he was going 
to come over here where he would be safe. 

Senator Overman. Did you know Lenine? Did you ever see him? 

Mr. Leonard. No, sir. 

Senator Overman. Or Trotzky? 

Mr. Leonard. No, sir. It might be interesting to quote this man 
Makrovsky, a man who ought to know, as he was in the people's 
council in Russia. 

Senator Nelson. Who? 

]S[r. Leonard. This man with whom I was in jail, this oil commis- 
sion man. He said that everybody trusted Lenine — that is, of the 
Bolshevik party — that everybody trusted and respected and admired 
Lenine. They admired Trotzky. He is their best orator, the most 
brilliant orator in Russia to-day, but they have not the same faith in 
him that they have in Lenine. Lenine, they think, is absolutely 
honest — he is an idealist, a fanatic, but he is honest — whereas Trotzky 
is capable and brilliant, but they think he has personal ambitions, and 
very many of them think that he is getting an army — you see he is the 
minister of the army and minister of the navy — and that he is try- 
ing to make this army loyal to him as an individual rather than to 
the government, and that he is seeking an opportunity to rise. I 
just hand that out as the opinion of a very intelligent, educated, and 
an ideal Bolshevik. 

Senator Overman. He is a man of property and yet a Bolshevik? 

Mr. Leonard. He has no property. He is a man of education. 
He had been a revolutionist all his life, and had been wounded in the 
revolution of 1905; was a student, I think, in Italy and a student 
elsewhere, but a man of no property. 

Senator Nelson. Trotzky lived in this country for a while, did he 

Mr. Leonard. Trotzky has been here. 

Senator Nelson. You refer to Lenine? 

Mr. Leonard. I was referring to this man who gave me these data. 

Senator Overman. Did Makrovsky tell you what they propose to 
(Jo — what the plans are of these Bolsheyiki ? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes ; he told about their ideals, and all of that. As 
near as I could compare them, it was to bring into operation the 


Golden Enle ; they had fine ideals. But it was very interesting to see 
that he changed absolutely there in prison. It was not for fear of 
personal danger, though there was that — he was not afraid of his 
life — but he had sacrificed everything for the revolution, that had 
been his religion, and now the revolution had come and as long as he 
was in Moscow he was fairly well satisfied, because something was 
happening there, but the minute he got off in the provinces and saw 
what was taking place, it was a pathetic sight to see him. His faith 
was broken, and although he came to prison a Bolshevik, when he 
left he was a Menshe^'ik, absolutely. He said, " The time is not ripe. 
We can not put the thing through. It must come by evolution and 
not by revolution.'' 

Maj. Humes. Can you think of any occurrences that you have not 
related along the line of the activities of the Bolshevik government? 
If so, just proceed and relate them. 

Mr. Leoxard. I will trj- to emphasize this, that Bolshevism is a 
rule of a minority. The Bolsheviki gained their power in N^ovember. 
They promised peace and bread, and to the peasants land; peace, 
bread, and land — peace, bread, and freedom. By freedom they 
meant giving the workman a chance to nationalize industry, to social- 
ize industry, to take complete control, and with those three slogans 
they captured the Russian Army, and everybodv was a good Bolshe- 
vik as long as it meant getting his land or getting his factory. 

Then when the government tried to take his wheat from the peasant 
at a fixed price — a much lower price than he could get in the open 
market — and when the price of manufactured articles was rising 
every day, the peasant said it was unjust and that this was the gov- 
ernment of the factory men. They said, " The first thing they do is 
to form their committees and lessen their hours of labor, and then 
they raise their wages and make them retroactive, so that they get 
this increase of wages for a year or more back, and the result of it is 
that the prices of goods must rise, and at the same time they are 
lowering the price of wheat; so we are getting it both ways." That 
caused the great split between the peasants — the farmers — and the 

Then there was a plan in Petrograd and in Moscow to arm these 
men and send them down into the provinces to take the wheat by 
force, which, of course, did not appeal to the peasants. 

The peasant is conservative, more conservative than the industrial 
worker in Russia, and in a local soviet of peasants sometimes they 
would not elect a Bolshevik soviet, but would elect a social revolu- 
tionary soviet, belonging to the social revolutionary party. Then the 
Bolsheviki would send down and by force of arms would expel that 
soviet and either restore the Bolshevik soviet or create a new Bolshe- 
vik soviet. 

But still the conditions did not satisfy them, and so this last fall 
Lenine put in the program of these committees of the poor. These 
are committees made up of the riffraff of the peasants, those people 
who have not any land or have not any property, people that drank 
up all the money they ever made, people without any ambition. He 
put them in control of the Soviets, or to control the action of the 
Soviets ; and so they have a combined function, they are executive and 
administrative ; and, of course, that does not appeal to the peasant. 


The peasant wants to elect his committee and have liis soviet have the 
power. Then here come these people, the riffraff, and try to take 
what they want. I know in some villages they could not elect any 
committees of the poor because they did not haxe any poor peasants. 
Then they would import them from some place. 

Senator OvEinrAx. Did the officers take any part in this Bolshevik 
novement ? 

Mr. Leonard. Not what you would call reoular officers. Some of 
the students who had always been I'evolutiouary, and who since the 
war liad come through quick training camps, came back in the low 
>-rades as commissioned officers, and also some who had risen from 
:he ranks, and some men Avho saw a chance to make a career for them- 
selves, took part in it. 

Senator Oveuman. Where was the German army while all this was 
3'oing on? 

Mr. Leonaed. The Germans were transferring their ai'my from' the 
eastern front to the western front. During all this time there was 
hardly any fighting. After that advance of June, 1918, came a re- 
treat, and then fighting practically stopped. There was desultory 

Senator Nelson. And the German troops were sent to the western 

Senator Oveejian. Did they fraternize with the Germans at all, 
while 3'ou were there ? 

Mr. Leonaed. Yes, sir. 

Senator Overman. The Germans were encouraging the Bolshevik 

Mr. Leonard. Very much so. 

Senator Nelson. Did you see any of these Bolshevik troops? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. I mean the troops of the army. 

Mr. Leonard. Of the Bolshevik army? 

Senator Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. Did they have German officers among them? 

Mr. Leonard. None that I ever saw, except in this, that they had 
what they called international battalions of the red army, made up 
for the most part of prisoners of war. But there were very few 
officers among them. There were noncommissioned officers, but very 
few commissioned officers. 

Maj. Humes. You mean German nonconmiissioned officers? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. They had this international battalion com- 
posed of Germans, Austrians, Hungarians, and Chinese. 

Senator Nelson. Did they have any sailors there — Russian sailors? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. Were they in the Bolshevik army ? 

Mr. Leonard. They were at first. But they are not idealists, by 
iny means. They are not fighting for any ideals. The sailors are 
the roughnecks of Russia. They terrorize. For instance, 30 sailors 
3ame to Suma and held up the town, held it for two days, and arrested 
ill the government officials. They went into the port towns of 
Novorssiisk and other towns, and they tokl me that when they came 
to Odessa none of the sailors had less than 40,000 rubles. They had 


looted the banks. A crowd of 20 to 40 would come into a town and 
take the hotel and insist they were going to live there. In one town 
one of the government officials tried to get me a room in the hotel 
and he could not do it. They did not dare throw the sailors out. 

Senator Nelson. These were Black Sea sailors? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. They were all the same, Baltic or Black 

Senator Nelson. Are the Baltic sailors bad ? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir: they are more of the regular sailor type. 
Most of the regular army of Russia was killed, but the navy, of 
course, did not suffer, so they have the old men, still, men who are 
not afraid, and who have been harshly treated and are out for re- 
venge and a wild time. 

Senator Nelson. What was your experience in getting out from 
Petrograd ? 

Mr. Leonard. Why, there was no experience, except that when 
the way was open they gave us permission and we went to a Finnish 

Senator Nelson. Did you have to buy your way across? 

Mr. Leonard. We had to buy our baggage through the customs 
and have it carted down, and we went out with a Norwegian courier. 
Between us we had a good deal of baggage, enough to fill a little 
handcart, and they carried our baggage through the customs, about 
four minutes' walk, and charged us a thousand rubles, which went 
to the government employees there. 

Senator Sterling. Mr. Leonard, I would like to ask a little more 
particularly about soviet government in Eussia. Can you say about 
how many of the soviet governments there are in Russia ? 

Mr. Leonard. I left there in the middle of November, and there 
have been so many changes, I can not say. 

Senator Sterling. The soviet government is an old institution in 
Russia, is it not ? Even before the revolution, and for a long time, 
they had soviet governments, had they not? 

Mr. Leonard. Not to my knowledge. They attempted in the revo- 
lution of 1905 to establish, the Soviets of soldiers, sailors, and work- 
men. When the revolution was overthrown in 1905 of course those 
Soviets were abolished — destroyed — but since then it has been an idea 
of their own that if they e\'ei' had the power they would establish 
this government of the councils. 

Senator Sterling. Coincident with the revolution itself and the 
overthrow of the Czar, a number of these soviet governments were 
established there? 

Mr. Leonard. These Soviets, these councils, were established, but 
took no part in the government aside from criticizing. At that time 
there was a dual government under Kerensky — or rather, the first pro- 
visional government — and thit was really the Petrograd soviet. The 
Petrograd soviet wanted to have things done its own way but re- 
fused to take the power itself. 

Senator Sterling. T^Tiat is the territorial jurisdiction of these 
soviet councils or governments? Do they have one for the city? 

Mr. Leonard. On the top they have this all-Russian soviet which 
meets in Moscow. Then there will be a district of several states 


which has a district soviet, and then each state will have a state 
soviet, and each city will have a soviet. 

Senator Sterling. What do you call a state now, in Russia ? 

Mr. Leonard. One of the old provinces we would call a state. It 
is a geographical division. They will have a soviet for a state, and 
then a city will have its soviet, and then a ward will have its soviet ; 
but they are all tied up together. 

Senator Sterling. They have the federal supreme soviet, then the 
district Soviets, then the state Soviets, and then the city and village 
=oviets ? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, and then the agriculturalists will have the 
county Soviets. 

Senator Steeling. On the establishment of those Soviets were they 
in the hands of the Bolsheviki ? 

Mr. Leonard. No, sir. 

Senator Steeling. Did the Bolsheviki succeed in capturing them 

Mr. Leonard. The Bolsheviki captured them by propaganda, and 
the Soviets as first established were more radical than the first pro- 
visional government ; but at that time they were not Bolshevik, and 
it was only about in July that the Bolshevik movement got to be seri- 
ous in Petrograd. Then they were electing their members into these 
Soviets, so gradually by absorption most of the Soviets became Bol- 
shevik, and it was only when they found that they had the Soviets in 
this mariner that they attempted to overthrow the government. The 
Soviets were not captured by force; it was by absorption. 

Senator Sterling. Are there any considerable number of soviet 
governments or councils not in the hands of the Bolsheviki at the 
present time? 

Mr. Leonard. At the present time I would say none whatsoever 
in bolshevik Eussia, because such do not exist. 

Senator Steeling. What do you understand by bolshevik Russia? 
I want to know what part of Russia, if any, is not under the domi- 
nation of the Bolshevik movement? 

Mr. Leonard. The Ukraine, part of it, is not under Bolshevik gov- 
ernment. But I see by the papers that the Bolshevists are advancing 
into the Ukraine. 

Senator Steeling. How about that territory captured by the 
Czecho-Slovaks and the Little Russian armies in Vologda for 200 
miles along the Volga River? Is that under Bolshevik rule? 

Mr. Leonard. I think it is, now. It has been recaptured. They 
drove the Czecho-Slovaks out of Samara in September, I should 
3a^^ but for a time the Czecho-Slovaks had control of the Volga River. 

"Senator Wolcott. Would it be a fair statement tO' say that the 
Bolsheviki rule over the greater part of European Russia now ? 

Mr. LroNAPD. ^>Y;>'"!"oul" a map it would be hard to sa'''. hr.t I should 
iaj it would be a little more than a half. Finland is out, part of 
Poland, and part of Ukraine. The Caucasus is in, and then the 
Don Cossacks; so that it leaves Big Russia, what they call Big Russia, 
in their hands. So I should sav it would be pretty evenly distributed ; 
perhaps a little more than half. 

Senator Steeling. How about the government in northern Russia, 
iround Archangel? 


Mr. Leonard. Of course, that is not Bolshevik. 

Senator ISteiujng. But thev liave there the soviet councils, do they 

iSIr. Leonard. I reallj^ do not know — I have never been there — but I 
do not think so. I tliink they hav,e some other form of government. 

Senator Xelson. That northern part of Eussia, north of the Si- 
berian Eailroad, around tlie ATliite Sea and Archangel, and up in 
that country, is very thinly settled? 

Mr. Leonard. A'ery sparsely settled. 

Senator Nelson. It is a country of vast swamps and heavy timber? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir.' 

Senator Xelson. And there are few people there, comparatively? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Xelson. The settlement in Russia is south of what j'ou 
call the Siberian Railroad t 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Xel.son. Xorth of that it is practically what wo would 
call largel}' a nonsettled country, is not that the fact? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Sterling. Were you in the northern part at all? 

Mr. Leonard. No, sir ; I was not. I gained this information from 
a British major who was in jail in Moscow with us. 

Senator Xelson. Have not some European capitalists built a road 
up to the Kola Peninsula, on the Murman coast? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Xelson. It is 600 or 700 miles long? 

Mr. Leonard. About that distance. 

Senator Nelson. Then there is an older road from Vologda up 
to Archangel? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Xelson. And a road connected with Viatka, east of that, 
a station west of Perm? 

Mr. Leonard. I passed through there in July. 

Senator Xelson. How did you go out? 

Mr. Leonard. I went by the railroad through Ii'kutsk. 

Senator Sterling. How far east from the European Russian 
boundary is Irkutsk? 

Mr. Leonard. It is just about half way across Siberia. 

Senator Sterling. Where, from Lake Baikal? 

Mr. Leonard. About 40 miles west of Lake Baikal. 

Senator Sterling. How about that region in there, is that under 
Bolshevik rule, along the trans-Siberian road? 

Mr. Leonard. I can not say now, because it is changing so often. 
Mr. Storey came from there after I did. 

Senator X'elson. I think the country from Vladivostok up as far 
west as Omsk in western Siberia, and perhaps across as far as Perm, 
is practically under the control of the anti-Bolsheviki, under the con- 
trol of the Czecho-Slavs, the Japanese, the French, and the Enghsh. 

Mr. Leonard. I think that for a time the eastern part, near Vladi- 
vostok, and then the Urals, Avere in the possession of the anti-Bol- 
sheviki, whereas around Irkutsk they were Bolsheviki. 

Senator Xelson. But they have been cleaned out of there. Irkutsk 
is near Lake Baikal and is the capital of eastern Siberia ? 


Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Sterling. What has become of the Czecho-Slovak Army 
that was fighting there and holding for a time the Trans-Siberian 
Eailroad ? 

Mr. Leoxard. They have had to retreat because tliey had no sup- 
port at all. It was meant to serve as a nucleus I'or a Siberian' g-ov- 
ernment, but instead of having one government they had over a hun- 
dred there. The army of the Czecho-Slovaks were underfed and un- 
derclothed and had tremendous losses, out of 440,000 troops their 
casualties Avere 40 per cent, and when no support came they had to 
withdraw to save themselves. 

Senator Sterling. Did you meet Col. Lebedeff? 

Mr. Leonard. No ; I did not meet him. 

Senator Sterling. You have heard of him '''. He was very much 
interested in the Czecho-Slovak Army and helped in the raising of 
a loyal Russian Army. 

Mr. Leonard. I do not know whether — he M'as across the line, evi- 
dentlj'. We got very little news thei-e. We got new^s from across the 
line only once in a while. 

Senator Xelson. Part of the Ukraine is now held by the Bolshe- 
viki, is it? 

Mr. Lkonard. If you can believe the newspapers, they have taken 
almost as far as Kiev. 

Senator Nelson. That is in the western part of the Ukraine ? 

Mr. Leonard. It is in the northeastern part. The Ulcraine runs 
like that [indicating], and it is in the northeastern part. 

Senator Nelson. They claim clear from the boundary? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir; but the line runs like that [indicating]. 

Senator Nelson. How^ is it with the Cossacks on the steppes back of 
the lower Volga? Do not the Don Cossacks hold that? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. sir. 

Senator Nelson. Then that is not under control of the Bolsheviki, 
is it ? 

Mr. Leonard. When I left it was not. 

Senator Nelson. That country up aroimd the Dvina River, is that 
in control of the Bolsheviki? 

Mr. Leonard. No; that was in control of the anti-Bolsheviki. 

Senator Nelson. So that the center of the Bolshevik power there 
is in what they call (rreater Russia, and a part of Little Russia, and 
a part of LTkraine. That is about it? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. Its big center is in Moscow. It is an 
industrial movement. It is a movement of the armed minority of the 
industrial classes — the factory worlmien. 

Senator Nelson. Ho that, roughly speaking, they have got about 
half of Russia proper under their control? 

Mr. Leonard. It would show approximately a half, I would guess. 
I -would make no definite statement without a map. 

Senator Nelson. And they have practically lost control of Siberia? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. A question has been raised here about 
food. I would say that there is sufficient food in Russia, provided 
there could be distribution. In the northern Caucasus there are 
tremendous supplies of wheat. They have not touched the crops for 
two or three vears' back. They have the crops stored there. 


Senator Xelsox. They have poor transportation facilities? 

Mr. Leonard. Very poor. During the summer they can transport 
by the river. One railroad was absolutely cut off and the other 
railroad was cut off a good part of the time ; and it is only a single- 
track road, anyway. 

Senator Xelson. Is that railroad from Baku cut off ? 

Mr. Leonard. When I was there it was cut off by the hill tribes. 

Senator Xelson. That is in the oil fields on the southwest side of 
the Citspian Sea? 

jMr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Xelson. I believe vou said that the Bolsheviki had control 
of Astrakhan? 

Mr. Leonard. They had when I was there. I see by the papers 
that the British are supposed to have entered Astrakhan. 

Senator Xelson. Ancl a British fleet is outside of Odessa, in the 
Black Sea ? 

Mr. Leonard. So the papers say. 

Senator Xelson. That is the principal town in southern Russia, is 
it not? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Xelson. It is their greatest wheat market? 

JNIr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Xelson. Eight face to face with what they call the Black 
Belt in Russia? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Xelson. And the country immediately around Odessa is 
not under the control of the Bolsheviki? 

]Mr. Leonard. Xo, sir. 

Senator Xelson. How is it down in the Crimea ? 

Mr. Leonard. When I was in Russia nobody kiiew what was hap- 
pening down there. They had different governments down there. 

Senator Xelson. The Bolsheviki did not have control of tliem? 

Mr. Leonard. That was a part of Ukraine, so the Bolsheviki were 
not in control there at that time. 

Senator Xelson. The country around the north side of the ."^ea of 
Azov, that is, where the Don enters into it 

My. Leonard. That is in the hands of the Don Cossacks. 

Senator Xelsox. And the Bolsheviki have no control there? 

Mr. Leonard. Xo: they were driven back by the Don Cossacks and 
by the Germans. 

Senator Xelson. The Don Cossacks — that is, the older element- 
are not with the Bolsheviki? 

Mr. Leonard. Their loyalty is wavering because they have not 
any money or supplies. 

Senator Xelson. But if thej^ had monej' or supplies, they would 
be all right? 

Jlr. Leonard. T'nless they are all tired. There is that feeling, and 
there was that split between the Don Cossacks and the younger Cos- 
sacki, who had been to the front and came back strongly tainted with 
Bolshevism. For a time they were widely split, and then they came 
together. The younger Cossacks wanted their own land. 

Senator X^'elson. Do you not have an idea, Mr. Leonard, that the 
outcome will be this, that the Russian peasants and the Cossacks and 


the remnants of the old Eussian Army will by-and-by unite and be 
able to stamp out the Bolsheviki ? 

Mr. Leonard. Provided they can unite. That has yet to be 
proved. That has been the trouble over there. That has been the 
reason the Bolshevik party has been able to hold its position, he- 
cause not of strength of its own but because of the weakness of its 

Senator Nelsox. Do you remember the name of that Eussian ad- 
miral who has assumed control of the Siberian Eailroad? 

Mr. Leonard. Admiral Kolchak. 

Senator Nelson. He is anti-Bolshevik? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir; very much so. 

Senator Nelson. And he seems to have done pretty well lately in 
the neighborhood of Omsk? 

Mr. Leonard. You get more information about that than I do, be- 
cause when I was in Eussia we got absolutely nothing over there, as 
to anybody. 

Senator Nelson. But you have kept track of the papers since you 
have come here? 

Mr. Leonard. I gather from the newspapers that he has been a 

Senator Nelson. Naturally, the tendency of the Cossacks would 
be toward the conservative side, as toward the Eussian side — anti- 
Bolshevik — would it not ? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. The feeling of the Cossacks was that they 
would defend their own territory, but they were opposed to invading 
Bolshevik Evissia in order to overthrow the Bolshevik government. 

Senator Nelson. But they would never submit to the Bolshevik 
government ? 

Mr. Leonard. Some of them have done so. 

Senator Nelson. They would not allow their lands to be taken 
away from them? 

Mr. Leonard. Some of them have done so. The trouble in the 
whole situation was that they would not unite. They would fight 
among themselves until the Bolshevik party came in, and then when 
they were powerless and their arms had been taken away they would 
begin to think about getting together; and eventually they did, but 
at tremendous cost. 

Senator Nelson. Do you not apprehend that ultimately there will 
be dissension among the Bolshevik leaders, and they will break up 
into sections? 

Mr. Leonard. They probably will. 

Senator Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Leonard. That is very probable, except for this, that they 
are pretty keen men, and they know that their only safety lies in 
sticking by each other; that the minute the}' start fighting among 
themselves, the whole thing falls. 

Senator Nelson. Are there many of those Bolshevik leaders that 
have lived here in this country? 

Mr. Leonard. I do not know. In the provinces where I was most 
of the time there were very few. My friends who have been in Petro- 
grad and Moscow say that there are a great number of them there. 


The foreign minister of the Petrograd government is n man who has 
been in America. 

Senator Xelson. AAliat is his name? 

jNIr. Leonard. Zorin. 

Senator Xelson. What is his real name '. 

Mr. Lec)Nakd. I do not know. 

Senator Xelson. Is lie a (xerman or a Hebrew? 

Mr. Leonakd. Xo; he is a Kussian, so far as I could say. 

Senator Xelson. He is a real Russian!' 

Mr. Leonard. He is neither a German nor a Hebrew. 

Senator SaisRLiNG. What is the thought, among those opposed to 
the federal movement, in regard to allied intervention, and the use 
of a sufficient military force ''. 

Mr. Leonard. At first they said " All we need is a nucleus." They 
said, " Wliy, with a regiment of American, or British, or French 
soldiers we could take Moscow. AVhy not send us just a nucleus?'' 
Thej could take the town, but they could not hold it, of course. 
They now no longer asked for such help, but the people I knew 
wanted the allies to come in and save them. For instance, the Finns 
"were asking for help. But the people I met throughout Eussia, as 
recently stated, had been through the four years of war and suffer- 
ing, and were apathetic, and they were expecting the allies to come 
in and save them. 

Senator Sterling. With a small allied force they could at one time 
have taken ]\Ioscow and prevented the establishment of the Bolshevik 
government there? 

Mr. Leonard. I do not know about that. With all these counter- 
revolutionary plots that I saw it was easy at any time to take a city. 
But what is the use of it ? You can not hold it. There is one com- 
munity there, and all around you are the enemyl You have no way 
of getting ammunition, and that is the whole trouble. But as to put- 
ting a nucleus of a military force there, it has been tried in three 
places and has not been a success anywhere. They gave them 40,000 
to 60,000 C'zecho-Slovaks, troops than whom there are no better fight- 
ers in the world, and the army did not materialize. The Czecho- 
slovaks for several months fought against overw'helming numbers 
and finally, because of luck of support, had to Avithdraw. 

They tried the same thing down in Baku. They asked the aid of 
the British to come over fi-oni Ensili, which is about 18 hours by boat, 
and they asked them to send up a small group of British, with British 
officers and some armored cars, and some guns and ammunition. The 
British responded. They sent up about 50 officers, if I remember cor- 
rectly, and several hundred men. and I think vrere to have about 2,000 
men and some armored cais in Baku. They could not hold the town. 
The people did not rally around them. At the same time that the 
jieople were asking aid of the British they were making Turkish flags 
as well as British flags in their homes, so that they would be ready 
to hang up t1ie right flag, whichever side won. There came up a small 
force, and they fought for about two weeks and then had to go back. 

The conditions were not very favorable for trying out anything 
at Archangel, because there were not many troops there, and it seems 
that the allies had to do most of the fighting there. 

Senator Nelson. Where is that? 


Mr. Leonaed. Archangel. So that at three different, places where 
it has been tried — two places Avhere it has .been tried under good con- 
ditions and one place where conditions were not so good — the at- 
tempts have failed. 

Senator Nelson. So that more than a mere nucleus of an army 
would be required to maintain order and keep the Bolsheviki in 
check ? 

Mr. Leoxakd. Yes, sir. 

Senator Xelsojj. "With the port of Archangel and that jjost on the 
Murman coast, on the Kola Peninsula, and with all the ports on the 
Black Sea under the control of the allies, and also the ports along tlie 
Baltic under the control of the British and French fleets, those Bol- 
sheviki are cut off from the sea in Petrograd, are they not? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Xelson. And Avill not that ultimately lead to their coming 
down from the high tree ? 

Mr. Leonaed. It may lead to it ultimately. But on the other hand, 
Avith a population 85 per cent of whom are peasants who have not 
any very great demands, they can exist on what they have and what 
they can raise. 

Senator Xelson. Xo; but those industrial workers have got to get 
raw materials. 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. To carry on their manufacturing ; and if they do 
not get to work and earn something, where will they be ? 

Mr. Leonard. They will print more money. 

Senator Nelson. The last that they got printed was at Leipzig, I 
believe ? 

JNIr. Leonaed. They may have gotten some there, but now they 
print it in every town. They have commandeered practically all of 
the lithographing establishments, and are printing the money. 

Senator Wolcott. Do you know a man by the name of Harold 

Mr. Leonard. No, sir ; I do not. 

Senator Wolcott. Are you in position to say what acreage was 
planted in spring grain and in spi'ing wheat in 1918, as compared with 
ordinary years? 

Mr. Leonaed. The men of whom I asked that question down in the 
northern Caucasus, which is a very rich countrj^, said that it was 
about 75 pel' cent they thought. The big estates have been taken and 
divided up. On that stretch southwest of Tsaritzin there has been 
very little j^lanted because of the civil war — fighting all the time. 
Some Avas planted, but there Avas no har^-est, as there was fighting 
all the time. In Tsaritzin, they sent out the women into the fields. 
They gathered all the women and sent them out to do Avhat harvest- 
ing they could behind the armies. I should say that there is no ques- 
tion of shortage — of dire shortage — of grain in Eussia, provided they 
can get it to Moscoav and Petrograd ; provided they haA-e the trans- 
portation necessary, or can stop the fighting to let the trains go by. 

I Avas talking with a man Avho had been detailed from a Petrograd 
factory to get some wheat to Petrograd last spring. At that time 
the railroad was not cut ; but his preparations for g;etting that wheat 
consisted of a special train, carrying armed men Avith machine guns. 


They had all the cars and orders to get the grain, but they had to 
have that protection in order to get the grain through to protect it 
from the other Bolsheviki. 

Senator Wolcott. Here is a statement which I will read from a 

Senator Steklixg. From what are you going to read ? 

Senator Wolcott. This is from an article written by Harold Kel- 
lock in the Good Housekeeping Magazine of February of this year, 
entitled "Aunt Enuny wants to know who is a Bolsheviki, and why." 
I read as follows : 

But in spite of tliese terrible tilings the spring planting was done, and a 
bigger acreage was sown than at any time since the war. The peasants were 
working for themselves. 

Xow, he must have referred to the spring of 1918. "What have 
you to say as to the accuracy of that statement? 

Mr. Leonard. I would say, from my knowledge, that it is in- 
accurate. There are three things opposed to it. In the first place, 
there has been a lot of civil war — civil fighting. The men were 
under arms and could not work. In other places where it had been 
planted the harvest could not be reaped because of the fighting. 

Around Samara, which is a fertile place, they could not plant 
because of lack of seed. The seed was gathered up from old estates 
and distributed, but because of the famine the peasants took the seed 
grain and ate it. The fact is that the peasant is a hard-headed fel- 
low. He is not sure who is going to reap the grain that he plants. 
Under those conditions he does not see any good in jDutting his money 
into the grain and the seed and his time into the cultivation of it. 

Still another thing- is that the peasants have more paper money 
than they want. They have literally thousands of rubles. Ever 
since the war started, since the prohibition of vodka, the peasant 
has been putting money into the savings banks and buying things 
for his house and buying phonographs. Even in 1916 this was true 
out in Siberia, that a peasant who had 20 acres, and licfore that had 
planted and cultivated the whole 20 acres, was able to make a living 
and had been making a lot more money than he did before would 
say, '' AAliat is the use of planting 20 acres? I can live just as well 
if I plant only 10 acres." So that he has been planting 10 acres and 
letting- the other 10 acres lie. Xow, the same thing holds much more 
when his crop is taken from him at a price which he considers unfair, 
and when at the same time with the money which he is given in 
return he can not buy anything that he wants. He is paid for his 
crop in paper money. He does not know who is going to harvest that 
crop, anyway; so he is going to plant just enough to keeji himself. 

Senator Wolcott. You spoke of one district, I think you said, it 
was down in the Caucasus 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Wolcott (continuing). Where there are abundant quan- 
tities of grain now, if they could just transport it? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Wolcott. In the spring of 1918 was that district under 
Bolshevik control I . 

Mr. Leonard. The district was. The river was in the control, about 
May, of the Czechs. The central part of the Volga Eiver was in their 


control. Both the mouth and the source of the Volga are held in the 
control of the Bolsheviki, but the center was under the control of the 
Czechs, and they could not get anything past. There was a railroad 
running from there straight up to Moscow, which ran through the 
Ukraine, but that was impossible to be used. There is one other 
road that zigzags up 

Senator Wolcoit. I am not concerned so much about the trans- 
portation problem. I am trying to test the accuracy of the statement 
of this article that the author puts in this Good Housekeeping Maga- 
zine. That is what I am concerned about. 

Mr. Leonaed. Yes. 

Senator Wolcott. You said that the statement I read was inaccu- 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Wolcott. Confining the statement to that portion of 
Kussia that the Bolsheviki control, would you say that it was just 
mildly inaccurate or that it was grossly inaccurate? 

Mr. Leonard. I would say that it was mildly inaccurate. 

Senator Wolcott. It is not a gross misstatement? 

Mr. Leonard. No ; mv estimate would be 75 per cent. He says more 
than 100 per cent. 

Senator Wolcoti\ No ; he does not say that. 

Mr. Leonard. He says more than ever was planted before. 

Senator Wolcott. At any time since the war. 

Mr. Leonard. My statement is that 75 per cent has been planted. 
He says over 100 per cent, whereas I have said 75 per cent. 

Senator Overman. Have you noticed since you have been home any 
propaganda of this Bolshevik business going on in this country ? 

Mr. Leonard. A week ago Sunday I went up on the north side of 
Minneapolis, Avhere they advertised a play in Russian by the Russian 
Slavic Educational Society — under the auspices of that society. It 
was a little one-act play put on by amateurs, which was a tirade 
against capitalism and the injustice of capitalism; and after that a 
man who had been a delegate to the so-^'iet congress in New York 
came out and delivered a speech in favor of Bolshevism, and 

Senator Nelson. Was that in Russian? 

Mr. Leonard. In Russian — and he rather sneeringly spoke of the 
United States and its President; but it was an out-and-out Bolshevik 
speech, for he said that the Russians under the Bolsheviki were 
living far better than they ever had before, and he held up the 
Bolshevik government as tlie ideal governmert. 

Senator Nelson. What is his name? 

Mr. Leonard. Gregorin. 

Maj. HxTMES. Is that his first name? 

Mr. Leonard. No, that is his last name. I think his first name 
was Alex. The thing that impressed me most was that this audience 
was fairlv well dressed. 

Senator Hardwick. How was he received ? 

Mr. Leonard. He received an ovation. The whole audience stood 
in honor of the fallen heroes, Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxem- 


Senator Wolcott. In this article that I read from a moment ago. 
I find two pai-agraphs which are calculated to leave the impression 
on the mind that the chief leaders in this Bolshevik movement are ani- 
mated entirely by a praiseworthy sentiment of love for the nation 
and desire to educate the people, and that they have no selfish pur- 
poses at all to serve. Xow. I want to read you these two para- 
graphs and see if your observations over there were such as to lead 
you to agree with the impression that these two paragraphs make 
upon the mind. [Eeading :] 

Some reniiirkiible personalities have lipcn included nmoiig these cninmissars. 
They work for workmen's salaries, 600 i-ubles (aliont ^90) a month, with an 
extra allowance of 100 ruliles for each dependent. Thus Lenine, wliose wife is 
employed in the department of educatiim. Rets 600 rubles, and Trotsky, who 
has a wife and tlnve children, prets 000 i-ubles. Both Lenine and Tchieherin, 
the Commissar for Foreif;"n Affairs, come of old well-to-do Russian families. 
Trotsky is the son of a prosperous .Jewish merchant. In Peti-o.srad Trotsky 
and his family lived in a little garret room in Smolny Institute, the soviet 

Tchieherin serveil as a. diplomat under the Czar before he became a revolu- 
tionary Socialist. While commissar of foreign affairs in Petrograd, he lived 
in a shabby little lodging liouse in the working qimrter. and members of the 
American Red Cross mission who had occasion to call upon him at his office 
would find him transacting affairs of state clad in a soiled sweater and baggj- 
old trousers. 

Xow, that conveys to my mind the impression that these men 
were poor men. and, so to speak, hugged their poverty, notwithstand- 
ing the,y were in places of power. 

]Mr. Leonard. It is both true and untrue. They are very demo- 
cratic and do not care hoAv they dress, and they do not care in what 
kind of places they work. But Lenine in Moscow has good quar- 
ters. The Bolsheviki have taken over the best hotel in town nnd get 
it rent free. Trotsky lives in the next best hotel. They all have 
Peerless automobiles, those Avho have not Packards. 

Senator "Wolcott. They are not living in garrets, then? 

IMr. Li:nxAKD. When working they can not keep a room in order: 
so that this room, after two weeks under Bolshevik rule, would' look 
like a room in a svreat shop: and in the next room, if there was a 
pre&s of work, Lenine and Trotsky Avould live, night after night. 
So that is true. But they live pretty well, aside from that. As to 
what he says about their being idealists, and all of that. I think most 
people in Eussia agree that Lenine is actuated entirely by ideal mo- 
tives. You can not agree with them; but some of the leaders- 
most of the leaders — are, the people say. But most of their workers, 
most of their associates, are not idealists. This statement was made 
to me by a man who had been in Eussia, and a man who was sup- 
posed to know. He says that To per cent of the leaders are honest. 
They are fanatics, and you can not agree with what they are doing: 
but 75 per cent of the leaders are honest. But 7.") per cent of the men 
are dishonest. 

Senator Wolcott. Are you in a position to entertain and to express 
a reliable opinion, to make a reliable statement, as to whether this 
assertion that they are working and getting only 600 rubles or 900 
rubles a month is true. Is that all they are given? 

]Mr. Leonaed. That is true, officially. It has since been raised 
because of the high cost of living. Lenine is now getting 1.200 


rubles. That Avas raisecl by act of law. That is Avhat they are 
making officially. What some of them get in other ways is' hun- 
dreds of thousands. Others do not take a cent in that wav. 

Senator Wolcott. It is well known that they are getting a lot on 
the side? 

Mr. Leonard. Some of then^ are. Others are not. This man who 
was in jail with me, Makrofsky, was getting his 1,000 rubles a 
month, and that was all, and there was absolutely no graft ; w'hereas 
an old Jewish fish merchant who was doA\-n iii Xavorossisk made 
himself minister of finance, and it was not many weeks before he 
sent his Avife out of the country with millions. 

Senator Wolcott. He was not an idealist? 

]Mr. Leoxaed. He was not an idealist. 

Senator Wolcott. He was not restricted to his 1,000 rubles a 
month ? 

Mr. Leonard. Xo. 

Senator Wolcott. Here is this statement [reading] : 

For the first time a real school system has been formed, and everj' child in 
Soviet Russia goes to school. 

Mr. Leoxaed. That is the best department they have. 

Senator Wolcott. The schools are running, are they? 

Mr. Leonard. They are, in a differeiit fashion. Everything is 
State. They do not allow the private schools or private gymnasia 
to function any more. They are trying to put on great reforms in 
feeding the children in the schools, and in playgrounds, and so forth. 
On the other hand, they put into the faculties, of their schools jani- 
tors and washv'omen, and let them have a vote in determining the 
curricula of the institutions. They have clone away with the require- 
ments for admission to the universities, because they say that vi^orks 
only to the good of the capitalist class. Only those who come from 
the capitalist class can comply with the requirements; so they say, 
■■ We must admit anybody who comes to the university, equalty." 

They have a big program and are doing things. / 

Senator Wolcott. I Avas just going to ask, are they doing things? 

Mr. Leonard. In several places they are. 

Senator Wolcott. In other words, they are teaching the three Ks, 
anrl their educational program seems to support their theory, very 

Mr." Leonard. Yes: but if I may be permitted to say this here, the 
thing that this man said in his speech in Minneapolis, this Russian, 
was that people accused the Russians of being uneducated. " Tkit," 
he said, '" I call that man educated who has class consciousness." 

Senator Nej^son. Was that at north Minneapolis? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Was it on the east or the west side? 

Mr. Leonard. It Avas on the Avest side. 

Senator Nelson. Were there many there? 

Mr. Leonard. About 300. 

Senator Nelson. What AAas the character of the people Avho Avere 
there? Were they Russians? 

Mr. Leonard. They are all Russians. The Avhole thing Avas in the 
lano'uage. And that is one thing they are trying to do in this 
school, nahielA-. to inculcate class consciousness. 


Senator Overman. Now, carrying out the idea of this revolution, 
3'ou have told us about one meeting; do you know of any other 
propaganda in this country ? 

Mr. Leonard. No; I know of 

Senator Overjian. In magazines and papers? 

Mr. Leonard. None ; except that the New Eepublic print, it seems 
to me, is as one-sided as the stuff of the so-called tools of capitalism 

Senator Overman. This article from which Senator Wolcott has 
read here, does not that sound a little bit like it might be 

Mr. Leonard. It seems to me too optimistic. The trouble is that 
a good many of these writers go to Petrograd and Moscow and meet 
the most intelligent Bolshevik leaders, who make themselves very 
nice to them, ancl they can make a very good impression, because they 
are educated. They talk about this great ideal, and nobody can op- 
pose them. Then those people come home and say that it is a 
fine program. I know one magazine writer that came over there 
and was personally conducted through some of the prisons, and came 
out in an article saying that the prisons were better than they had 
been, and were not bad. Well, I was never personally conducted 
around, but the only good things that I saw were what was left over 
from the old regime, in the prisons. 

A.nd this same writer met Al. Peters, " one of the nicest men she 
ever met." He was assigned as interpreter for the Bolsheviki. He 
was a man who was shooting people without trial all the time. 

Senator Nelson. He was the lord high executioner? 

Mr. Leonard. He was the man who told the Norwegian attache 
that he was going to shoot us. He said that we were all counter- 
revolutionists. He said that without looking at our papers. When 
we got back these papers had not been touched. 

Senator Nelson. He AViis the kind of man that Byron speaks of 
in his poem " The Coreair," of whom he says : 

He was tlie mildest-mannered man that ever scuttled ship or cut a throat. 


Senator OvER:\tAN. Their government looks prettj' good on paper, 
but their actions do not correspond with their theory. It was testi- 
fied here this morning that these fellows feel that they have a right 
to do as they please and take what they please, and do as they-please 
generally. Do you believe that? 

Mr. Leonard. Do I believe in that? 

Senator Overjian. Do you believe that that is so ? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes; that is their program. 

Senator Nelson. Did you come across Albert Rhys Williams over 
there ? 

Mr. Leonard. No, sir. 

Senator Nelson. You never met him? 

Mr. Leonard. No, sir ; I knew- that he was there ; but, as I say, I 
was in the provinces most of the time. 

Senator Nelson. Did you know anything of his activities? 

jMr. Leonard. Nothing; no, sir. 

Senator Nelson. You lost a good deal. 

Mr. Leonard. I guess I did. 


Senator Wolcott. Do you know anything about their program 
looking forward to socialization of women? 

Mr. Leonard. I was in Samara at the time that came out in the 
papers, and I have in my possession, some place, their placards deny- 
ing that. They say that is not true. They say that was put up 
by the counter-revolutionary element in order to discredit them, and 
that it was done by a group of anarchists who have since been 
arrested by the Bolsheviki. 

Senator Wolcott. Do you know Avhether that placard was put up 
in their buildings ; or have you knowledge of that ? 

Mr. Leonard. I have no knowledge on that subject. It was not 
put up in other places where I had been. 

Senator Wolcott. Was that the only thing you saw over tliere that 
indicated, or that gave any justification for the idea, that tlie so- 
called program for the socialization of women was in their minds? 
Was that the only piece of evidence you saw ? 

Mr. Leonard. That was the only piece of evidence I saw. They 
are aiming toward free love. They are doing away with the marriage 
ceremony, and they have, of course, adopted a civil ceremony; and 
in some places they have it for a term of years. 

Senator WoLcott. I want your opinion on that, because this writer 
winds up with an article and says that after all the test of it will 
be this, " How will it ailect the Ijabies of young married folks, and 
folks who do not get along very well? " You say this is a part of 
the doctrine of these leaders, that they want to reform the marriage 
relation and make terms of years for the married state, and inaugu- 
rate free love? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes ; that is in their program. 

Senator Overman. How did you find their morals there, among 
the men and women ? 

Mr. Leonard. They have a different moral standard from what 
we have in America. 

Senator Overjian. Are they bad? 

Mr. Leonard. They have more of the oriental attitude. 

Senator Xelson. That man, Maxim Gorky, I believe his name is, 
whom they have taken into the fold, is about as immoral as they can 
make them. 

Mr. Leonard. There was great rejoicing when he came back to 
the fold. 

Senator Xelson. He is bad enough to leaven the whole Bolshevik 

Mr. Leonard. I do not think they need much leavening. 

Senator Overman. But they rejoiced when he returned? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. He was over here in New York for a while. 

Senator Wolcott. Who is his assistant? 

Mr. Leonard. —■ 

Senator Wolcott. Commissar of education? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. For a time he withdrew from them and was 
bitterly opposed to them, and scattered editorials against them, and 
then he came back. 

Senator Nelson. My recollection is that he was over here in New 
York a while, and that he left the country in disgrace, because they 
did not approve of his having a bereft wife with him. 


Senator Overtax. Do you know anything about their taking over 
a lot of young girls in a seminary and putting the Bolshevik soldiers 
in with them ; 

Mr. Leonard. I never knew of that. 

Senator Overman. Is there anything else, ^lajor? 

ilr. Leonard. I will say that the program and the spirit of the 
Bolshevik party i.b directly opposed to religion and to what we know 
as the home. 

Senator "Wolcott. "What is their argument for declaiming against 
the home? 

Mr. Leonard. They say the home does not give the children a fair 
chance. They have not had a happy home experience, and those 
who have lived in the poorest quarters say it does not give every- 
body a fair chance; that everybody ought to start e(jnal, and the 
children ought to be taken and put in government institutions and 
given the same education. They say this has grown up from capi- 
talism : that true love does not enter into marriage ; that now it is a 
sj'stem of barter for social position and for wealth, and all of that, so 
they are going to have love, and provide for the children in govern- 
ment institutions. 

Senator Wolcott. That is to say, the children will not grow up in 
home surroundings * 

Mr. Leonard. No. 

Senator AVoLcorr. If they cari-y out their program, then, the future 
men and women will have no recollection of home life or of the home 
fireside, with their parents there. 

Mr. Leonard. Xo; the_y are opposed to that. 

Maj. Humes. The theoi'y is that the children are to be taken care 
of by the State. 

]\Ir. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Xklson. They are to be nationalized? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Maj. HriiEs. Yes; nationalized in that way. 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Xelson. And they do not believe in marriage, because it 
is a part of the creed of the capitalist class, is not that it? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Overman. Are they in favor of divorce? 

jMr. Leonard. It is very easy to divorce. 

Senator Overman. They do not have to go to Reno? They have 
no Eeno? 

Mr. Leonard. Xo. 

Senator Xelson. You do not have to go into court to get a divorce. 
The man just makes a declaration or writing to the woman and says, 
"' I divorce you," and that is all there is to it. 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

vSenator Overman. Has the woman the same right to say that she 
divorces the man? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator Overman. So the women have got equal rights over there? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Sterling. Do you think, Mr. Leonard, that these prin- 
ciples appeal to the ordinary Russian peasant very much, or is this 
the doctrine of the leaders who are pre:iching it? 


Mr. Leonard. I do not think that it appeals to the Eussian peas- 
ant ; but the unrest has come from the peasants who have been abroad 
in the industrial cities in Eussia, where they have had poor surround- 
ings and have been ill paid, and where "the propaganda has lieen 
going on among them for years, and they have been taught that they 
are the degraded class, the exploited class, all of them. So there is 
where the ti^ouble is coming from, and from the industrial workmen, 
rather than from the peasants. The peasant had one need. The 
peasant really needed land, and wanted it, and when he got land he 
was satisfied. 

Senator Xelsox. They have one advantage now, that they do not 
have to go to Nevada or any of these western cities to get a divorce. 
They can get it at home. 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 

Senator Overman. What about the churches? Do they attend 
their churches? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes ; the peasants still attend the churches. But the 
church, of course, has been disestablished, and the Bolsheviki are 
carrying on an endless propaganda against the priesthood, against 
the clergy, and they are playing up everything they can against the 
clergy, and they publish tliat in the papers. 

Senator Overiman. Can you give any reason for that? 

Mr. Leonard. To ' discredit the church because the church has 
been a department of the state. It has been a very conservative in- 
fluence and has not given the spiritual leadership to the people that 
the people needed. They call that party opposed to the church the 
Black Hundred. 

Senator Wolcott. I supjDOse they recognize the psychological fact 
that if thej' can destroy the faith of any people they get the people 
into a condition where the}^ can overthrow anything they want to 
overthrow ? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes; and that is just it. The peasant did not know 
what he Avas fighting for .in this war. He Avas fighting for one 
reason, because the Czar told him his duty called him ; and the Czar 
and the church were very closely united, and when the Czar was over- 
thrown most of their faith fell aAvay. If now the Bolsheviki can 
discredit the church, the poor peasant is absolutely helpless. He has 
nothing to cling to. 

Sena^tor Wolcott. He is driftwood, so to speak? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir. 

Senator "Wolcoit. He must move the Avaj' his leaders Avant to move 

Mr. Leonard. Absolutely. 

Senator Nelson. The Eussian Church Avas the backbone of the old 
Government, and Avas the one connecting link that kept the peasants 
attached to the GoA-ernment, Avas it not, to a large extent? 

Mr. Leonard. Yes, sir ; to a very great extent. 

Senator Nelson. Has the church lost the influence that it had 
in the past ? 

Mr. Leonard. It has lost its influence among the industrial classes. 

Senator Nelson. But among the peasants? 

Mr. Leonard. The peasants still go to church. Where their priest 
has been bad, they have gotten a new priest there, but they have not 

85723—19 15 


turned agiiinst the church, and even as hxte as August there was a 
decree gotten out i:)i-ohibiting the hanging of icons in any public 
building or any building belonging to the state. Before the war 
with Germany, in every building there was a little icon hanging up 
in the corner. Down in the department of the Bolshevik Cossacks 
they still had all their icons hanging up, because they said they were 
called for. The soldier commissar tried to make them put them out, 
and they said they could not do it, for if the Cossacks believed that 
they were anti-Christian they would not have their support at all. 

Senator Xelso>'. In the great chaos that prevailed after the death 
of the imbecile son of Ivan the Terrible there was an interregnum 
of 29 years in Eussia, and it was through the church that they 
finally gathered themselves together and elected INIichael Romanoff 
as the Czar, supplanting the old line of rulers, and it was through 
the church that they succeeded in rallying the new government 
together. Xow, do you not believe that in the pi'esent emergency the 
church will be a great help 

Mr. Leonard. I have faith to belie ve- 

Senator Xelson (continuing). In the rallying and gathering to- 
gether of tlie Eussian people against this Bolshevik system? 

Mr. Leonard. If the church can help itself and produce a leader 
who can unite Eussia. 

Senator Xelson. You recollect that in the French Eevolution they 
attempted to destroy all religion, and the church altogether, but they 
failed in it ; and they will fail here in making war on the Eussian 
Church. Do you not think they will ? 

Mr. Leonard. That is my opinion. 

Senator Nelson. The peasants and the church and the Cossacks 
and the conservative element will get together, and inside of six 
months they will eliminate that Bolsheviki crowd? 

Mr. Leonard. Once the}' can all get together. That is the question. 

Senator Overman. ]\Ir. Leonard, hoAv many of this middle class— 
the bourgeoisie, as you call them — have fled Eu.ssia on account of this 
terrorism ? 

■]\Ir. Leonard. I could not estimate it, but a gi'eat number. These 
Scandinavian countries are filled with them. They have not fled 
Russia, but fled Bolshe-^ik Eussia. Kiev was crowded with them, 
and Eostov. and the territory of the Don Cossacks; and then, to a 
somewhat smaller extent, the northern Caucasus, after the anti- 
Bolshevik forces cleared out of the place. 

Senator Oversfan. When you left there what was the difference in 
the population of Moscow from what it was when you first went 
there ? 

Mr. Leonard. I do not know about ]Moscow. I was brought up 
under guard. 

Senator Overman. How about Petrograd? 

Mr. Leonard. Petrograd has a population of about half a million 

Senator Overman. How much had it in normal times I 

Mr. Leonard. Away over a million. 

Senator Overman. It has been stated here that it was nearly 

Mr. Leonard. Yes. 


Senator Nelson. In normal times it had about 2,000,000? 

Mr. Leoxaed. Yes ; the population was told me bv several men. 

Senator Nelson. At Moscow they had about 500,000 or 600,000 in 
normal times? 

Mr. Leonard. I do not know. I should say the population was 
lario'er than that. 

Senator Steeling. What has become of some of the revolutionary 
leaders there — the leaders in the Duma at the time of the breaking 
out of the revolution — like Miliukoff ? 

Mr. Leonard. Miliukoff was down in the Ukraine, down in Kiev. 
One was down with the Don Cossacks, with Gen. Krostoff. I under- 
stand they have scattered around. Another remained in tlie north- 
ern Caucasus. 

Senator Overman. What became of these great generals? 

Mr. Leonard. Brussiloff was wounded, while lying in bed, by street 
fighting. Alexieff died last August, and Demetrius 

Senator Overman. What became of Brussiloff? , 

Mr. Leonard. He was wounded, and I have heard the rumor that 
he has since been killed. 

Senator Overman. What became of Korniloff? 

Mr. Leonard. He was killed. 

Senator Overman. Where is Kerensky? 

Mr. Leonard. He is over in England some place, is he not? 

Senator Overman. How about Nicholas — what became of him? 

Mr. Leonard. He was down in the Crimea when the Ukraine was 
taken by a force of Germans and Austrians. I think he is still in 
the Crimea — still in Kiev. The Germans said they were going to take 
him a prisoner of war, but he Avas in the Crimea at that time. Since 
that I have heard nothing. 

Senator Nelson. Wliat became of Nicholas? 

Mr. Leonard. The grand duke? He is the man I Avas just speak- 
ing of. 

Senator Overman. He was one of the greatest generals the war 
has produced, in my opinion. 

Senator Nelson. Yes; he was a great general. 

Senator Oatseman. What has become of these first revolutionary 

Mr. Leonard. They have gone down to these other regions which I 
have named, where the class is bourgeois. Some have gone out 
into the Scandinavian coimtries, but very few. There are none of 
them in power. Many of them are in Siberia. 

Senator Overman. The banks have all been taken over, have they 

Mr. Leonard. The banks have all been nationalized, and all the 
private banks have been reopened as branches of the national bank. 
When I left all bank deposits had been arrested : and then for a time 
you could get out 100 rubles a month on check, which was later 
raised to about a thousand rubles a month by check, and then the 
people objected to that. Of course there were no deposits under such 
conditions, and then they put in a condition that of any money you 
deposited after a certain date you could draw as much as you 
wanted. Then people deposited money, but when they tried to draw 
it out the banks said they did not have any money, which was the 



Senator Overman. I suppose everj'body that had money on de- 
posit took it out ? 

Mr. Leoicakd. Most of them could not get it. The turnover came 
too quick. 

Senator Xelsox. Tliey commandeered all the money? 

iMr. Leoxaed. Yes, sir. 

Senator Overman. Did you hear any talk there about doing away 
Avith all money and not having any money at all? 

Sir. Lkoxard. Xo; but they might as atcU do something like tliat, 
because the present money does not amount to anything. In each 
little district there are a dozen making counterfeit money. Some of it 
is made in Austria, some is made in Germany, and a great deal is 
made in Eussia itself. 

Senator Xelson. No specie circulates there? 

Mr. Leoxard. Xo, sir. 

ilaj. Ht::mes. Gentlemen, I have here for the record — I do not know 
whether you want it all read or not — an excerpt from the official 
Bolshevik newspaper detailing their state budget for the second half 
of the year 1918, showing that the total amount of expenditures of 
the republic for 1918 is estimated at 48.000,000.000 rubles, or about 
$23,000,000,000. Do you care to have it all read? 

Senator Overman. No; just put it in the record. 

(The matter referred to is as follows:) 


The work in connection with the drawing up and examinntion of the budget 
of the Republic for the second half of 1938 and the general balancing of same 
has been completed. 

The total amount of State expenditures for the euri-ent ha!f-vear is estimated 
at 29,000,000.(100 (17,000,000,000, or 70 per cent above the previous lialf year). 
The total amount of expenditudrcs of the Republic for 1918 is estimjitetl at 
40,000,000,000 rubles. 

The first place, in proportion to the amount of expenditures, is occupied b.v 
the military rommissariat, the total amount of the expenditures of which 
!s set at 9,500,000,000 (7,700,000,000 ordinary expenditures and 1,700,- 
000,000 e>:tra(jrdinary). Comparing this with the total for the 0rst half-year 
(5,800,000.000). the expenditures of the commissariat increased by 3,700,000,000, 
that is 63 per cent. 

The second iilaee is held by the expenditures in connection with the organiza- 
tion of economic and trading conditions of the State and the exploitation of 
the State enterprises. The expenditures are distributed among the depart- 
ments as follows : To the commissariat of ways of communication and the 
chief management of waterways is apportioned 4.2 billion rubles ; to the com- 
mittee of the State constructions — 1 billion ; to the Supreme Council of State 
Economics — 1.6 billions ; and 800,000,000 for operating expenses and for the. 
cover of excess expenditures in connection with the nationalization of enter- 
prises. The total amount of expenditures of this character entered in the 
budget is estimated at approximately 8,000,000,000 (27 per cent of the total 
amount of expenditures). 

The following place in the budget is occupied by the expenditures for edu- 
cational purposes. In comparison with the first half-year the apportionment 
for the commissariat of national education is 5 times greater and is estimated 
at 2.4 billions (against 0.5 billion for the first half-year.) In general the total 
amount of expenditures for educational purposes reaches 12.5 per cent of the 
total budget. 

The fourth place in the budget (10 per cent of the budget) Is occupied by 
expenditures which are created by the extraordinary economic conditions of 
the nation, i. e., expenditures foi' organization of food supply. For this pur- 
pose, according to the estimate of the commissariat of food supply, the latter 


is apportioned for the current half year 3.1 billions — that is, two and one-half 
times move than in the first half year. 

Especially noteAvorthy, in comparison with the budgets of previous years, 
are the separate estimates for health conservation, social insurance, regulation 
of labor and insi'iranc« of same. Are insurance, and for work in <M)nnection 
with different nationalities. The total expenditures, according to these esti- 
mates, equal 1,000,000,000 (3.5 per cent), having increased five times in com- 
parison with the amount of the first half year. 

Other departments in proportion to their expenditures are as follow.s : The 
Coirmissariat of Finance, 1.2 billions; the Commissariat of Interior, 618,000,000; 
the Commissariat of Justice, 236,000,000; State Control, 64,000,000; the Cen- 
tral Shitistical Department, 48,000,000; the Commissariat of the Property of 
the Kepublic, 40,000,000 ; the all-Russian central executive committee of Soviets, 
32,000,000; and, final].>% the last place is occupied by the Commissariat of For- Relations, with an apportionment of 5,000,000 roubles. 

AVith all its advantages the budget has vital defects, namely, its deficit ; the 
total of State revenues for the second half year is estimated at about 12.7 
billion rubles. Consequently the difference between the expenditures and the 
revenue is above 16.000,000.000. Takins into consideration the fact that out of 
the 12.7 billion rubles of the State revenue, 10,000,000,000 rubles are derived 
from special taxes, that the ordinary revenue of 2.7 billions Is only approxi- 
mately estimated, and that according to the first half year the income does 
not come up to expectations entertained when compiling the budget of reve- 
nues, the deficit of the budget appears to be still of a most serious character. 


(The witness was sworn by the chairman.) 

Senator Overman. Where are you from? 

Mr. Storey. Urbana, 111. 

Senator Overman. How long have you been back from Russia? 

Mr. Storet. I got back in AugTist. 

Senator Overman. How long were you in Russia? 

Mr. Storet. About a year and four months. 

Senator Overman. What position did you hold over there ? 

Mr. Storey. I went over as the representative of the American 
Young Men's Christian Association. I was in European Russia for 
about eight months and in Siberia for the balance of the time, in 
charge of the work there. 

Senator Overman. Go on and state in your own way the conditions 
over there. 

Mr. Storey. The impression made upon me when I went into 
Russia was cumulative, to the effect that we were entering a country 
which had been very seriously worn out by the war. The condi- 
tions in Siberia were not so bad. 

Senator Nelson. Did you enter from the Siberian end ? 

Mr. S'torey. I entered from Vladivostok. 

Maj. Humes. Where were you with reference to the revolution? 
^Ya.s it before the Bolshevik revolution? 

Mr. Storey. It was after the March revolution, yes; but as you 
got further into Russia it became more and mere apparent tliat you 
were in a country that had been at war and the resources of which 
had been seriously drained. 

Entering Moscow early in November, I was there daring the strug- 
gle between the cadets and the supporters of the Kerensky regime 
generally against the Bolshevist movement. The fighting there 
lasted for about a week. It wavered back and forth. Troops which 
were bronp-ht in from the outside to help support the government 


were in almost every case turned to the support of the Bolslievist 
group, and finally, about a week after the fightinp; started, and after 
considerable damage was done and perhaps 2,000 lives had been lost, 
the Bolsheviki were able to take command of the city. 

Senator Steeling. What influences were brought to bear on those 
troops to win them over to the support of the Bolshevik movements 

Mr. Storet. My judgment there is that they probably had been won 
over before they were brought into reach of the city. Certainly the 
morale of the entire Eussian Army had been thoroughly rottecl out 
long before any American visitors reached Russia. Mj own judg- 
ment is that the damage had already been done before the first revolu- 
tion took place, and that at no time, probably, after the fall of 191(1 
was there any expectation that the old army could be rehabilitated 
and made into an effective fighting force for any of the causes or 
appeals which could then be made to them. Certainly at no time 
after the Your.o,' Men's Christian Association became active in the 
field Mas there any such opportunity. 

Senator SteeluvG. That disaffection among the troops at that 
early tirhe was clue to Bolshevik propaganda? 

Mr. Stoeey. No; it was not, altogether. It was due to the circum- 
stances of their life. They were poorly armed, poorly equipped, and 
they did not know why they were fighting or what they were fighting; 
for, particularly after they had lost confidence in their leaders, as 
the.y did. The stories of corruption of the old regime during the war 
almost paralleled anything that I have met with since. The fall of 
Riga, I have heard it said many times, Avas the result of a dicker for 
millions of rubles' worth of supplies. 

Senator Steeling. The old regime having fallen and the Czar hav- 
ing been deposed, did not the troops have faith in Kerensky? 

Mr. Storey. No; I think not. At one time it seemed as though 
he might rally them. No part of Russia wanted to fight after the 
revolution. A certain part of it felt under obligation to do so, but I 
have not encountered any enthusiasm in any part of Russia for con- 
tinuing war. 

Senator Steelixg. Did you hear anything of the failure of Ker- 
ensky in the matter of discipline? Did he not relax the army dis- 
cipline to such an extent that it aided this Bolshevik sentiment? 

Mr. Stoeey. I have heard two sides to that. One was that the pro- 
visional cabinet was responsible for that famous edict, No. 1, which 
did relax the discipline, and the other was that it was a spurious 
document that had been sent out and which they did not have the 
courage to combat quickly enough. 

Senator Steeling. The soldiers got to understand that they did not 
have to salute their superior officers? 

Mr. Stoeet. Certainly; that was true. 

Senator Steeling. Anct claimed that they stood on the same foot- 
iiif exactly as an officer ? 

Mr. Storey. Yes, sir. 

Senator Steeling. And were entitled to the same privileges and 
the same accommodations and everything? 

Mr. Storey. They did not go to that extent all at once, but that 
was a gradual development as they felt their power. The tendency, 
as they became familiar with their officers, was to become more so. 


Senator Overman. It has been said here that the Bolsheviki had 
great antipathy to the Yoimg Men's Christian Association. AVhy 
was that? 

Mr. Storey. Their attitude toward the Young Men's Christian 
Association, I should say, was twofold. I ought to say that up to 
the time the Young Men's Christian Association definitely allied it- 
self with the Czechs, it Avas tolerated in liussia and was permitted 
to do considerable work, and was giA en some facilities for its work ; 
but there came a time when, owing to the fact that it was working 
also with the Czechs who were fighting the Bolsheviki, they de- 
manded that it make a choice. As a matter of fact, I think that 
choice never actuallj- had to be made, because the American Govern- 
ment ordered its subjects out of Russia; but certainly the association 
was on the eve of having to make such a choice. The two reasons 
are, in the main, these, that owing to their past knowledge and con- 
ception of Christianity as exhibited in the Eussian Church, an 
instrument of the old regime, they were anti-Christian. To them 
that was what Christianity represented. The second reason was that 
they were suspicious that the American Young Men's Christian Asso- 
ciation "was in Russia for the purpose of assisting to keep Russia in 
the war, and was an instrument of the American Government and the 
capitalistic grou^js who supported the association in helping to re- 
store the moi'ale of the Russian Army, and the soldiers did not want 
that, nor did, of course, the Bolsheviki care for it; and I think it 
would be truth to say that the utterances of some of the association 
leaders as to the reasons for sending men to Russia and for sending 
men to make the effort there were that it was in order to hold the 
Russian Army on that front. Whether those utterances ever reached 
Russia or not I do not know. Certainlj' we had that to combat 

Senator Overman. When was it that you left Russia ? 

Mr. Stoeet. I left there the last of November. 

Senator Overman. After the signing of the armistice? 

Mr. STOiiET. Yes; after the signing of the armistice. I was in 
Siberia the latter part of the time I was there. 

Senator Overman. Can you go on and give us your judgment of 
the condition of things over there, the terrorism, and so on ? 

Mr. Storey. In the main, I think I could summarize the situation, 
as I looked at it, substantially as follows. May I preface that by 
saying that my interest was rather that of a student of the Govern- 
ment, because that has been my teaching field, and I was interested 
in it from the standpoint of politics and political science as mudfi 
as any other. During the time that I was in Russia I spent some 
time in Moscow, some time with the troops, and some time in Petro- 
grad. I was in Finland during the revolution in Finland and dur- 
ino- the period of the German occupation there. I was back in Russia 
and in Petrograd some time after the allied embassies left it, and in 
Moscow at the time of the peace conference, and have been in 
Siberia with the Czechs during the greater portion of their stay there, 
and was there prior to their arrival a. short time. 

In my dealings with the Bolshevik leaders I have generally had a 
courteous and, I should say on the whole, a frank reception and 
treatment. There was that satisfaction in dealing with them, in the 


main. If you were at the source of authority, they did not mince 
words about what they would do or what they would not do. One 
of them told me frankly that they were tolerating our activities 
until they would be able to take over that kind of work. They did 
not propose to tolerate us anj- longer. One of them said frankly 
that they were anti-Christian, and said why, pointing to the past 
history of the Eussian Church as an illustration. 

I think this is a reaction, from talking with them and reading their 
pamphlets and their papers, and hearing them speak. They aspire, 
undoubtedly, to a world-wide rule of the proletariat. They do not 
stop at means which it is necessary to employ in order to achieve those 
ends, but on the other hand, there is this to be said, in part, for that. 
They have lived under a regime which knew no exceptions to the 
processes by which it attained its purposes, either, and I am disposed 
to think that a great many of the excesses and the outrages which un- 
doubtedly took place were the result of nervousness on the part of un- 
trained and ill-disciplined soldiers, or of armed groups, from an army 
many units of which were disbanded with their arms. ^lany of these 
soldiers wandered about over the country for weeks. They did not 
know where they were and did not know how to get to their homes. 
It "was also true that a great many of the men who took up with the 
Bolshevik movement were poor adventurers, unscrupulous, and went 
in on it because that was the way the tide was running. 

Senator Steeling. Did not that class of men have a good deal of 
influence among the poorer classes ? 

Mr. Storey. Undoubtedly. There were some very clever men 
among that group. A great many of the old secret police, I have 
heard, were actually in this movement, men of training and men of 
influence, although I know that a great many of the men who are in 
the movement are idealists of the most sincere type. 

Senator OvEpaiAx. Did you know Trotsky? 

Mr. Storey. No; I did not. I have heard him speak. I do not 
know him personally, however. 

Senator Overman. What was the character of his speech? What 
did he preach ? 

Mr. Storey. Well, he was making an address to a company of 
about 400 Lettish soldiers who were quartered in a prince's palace or 
clubroom in Petrograd, and the speech was largely inspirational. 

Senator Overman . Is he a fine talker? 

Mr. Storey. Yes; he is a rather striking man to see, and certainly 
a very imj^ressive speaker. I, of course, had the extreme disad- 
vantage, which a great many of us had, of having to hear him 
through an interpreter, and that is not always an accurate and satis- 
factor}^ method of getting the substance of what is said. 

Senator Steeling. In Avith those leaders, Mr. Storey, and 
with the more intelligent of them, did they seem to have the idea 
that they could form a. permanent society and government on the 
class principle, in which the proletariat should rule alone, without 
reference to what thej' termed the bourgeoisie, the tradesmen or 
middle-class people? 

]Mr. Storey. Their conception, of course, of social organization 
was radically socialistic, and while I got the impression from them 
that for the present their attitude toward these groups was uncorri- 


promising, yet in theory they did recognize differences in ability 
between men. They would not under normal circumstances, I think, 
have objected to a teacher soTiet. for example; in fact, they had one 
in Vladivostok when I reached there, and it sent its delegates to the 
assembly of the city just as did the ditch diggers and the factory 
workers, and other groups of workers. I do not have personal knowl- 
edge of the facts, but I understand that there has since been made 
a classification of workers which recognizes that there are some 
people Avho must do inside work, so lo speak, cluur work — that 
is, work of a sedentary character. They recognize, in other words, 
brain work, although it is not permitted to claim thereby a larger 
proportion of the total production of society. Does that answer your 
question ? I think there is no question that they had that idea. 

Senator SteeliiSig. The three classes which the Soviet constitution 
recognizes, as I understand it, are the laborers, the peasants, and the 

Mr. Storey. Those are all member's 

Senator Steelixg. And they further declare in that constitiltion 
that no one belonging to the bourgeois class, the traders, or anyone 
making a profit on any in^•estnlent or receiving an income from in- 
vestments, shall participate in an election, or be elected to any 
position or office. 

Mr. Stoket. Substantially, I think that is their attitude to-day. 

Senator Sterling. They clo not say that their government is a 

Mr. Stoeet. Oh, no. I would say that it was quite a shock to me 
that I did not meet in Russia anyone, high or low, who had been in 
the United States, Bolshevik or non-Bolshevik, who cared to see 
American civilization duplicated in their own countiw. There was 
a very unfavorable impression as to our Government on the part of 
Russians that I met with. 

Senator Sterling. They really do not believe in representative 
government ; is not that true ? 

Mr. Stoeey. Their objection was not so much to our representative 
system as to our industrial system. 

Senator Sterling. Well, if carried out into government, politically, 
they did not believe in a government that would represent other than 
these three classes ? 

Mr. Stoeey. Their expectation is that they will soon reduce 
all to those three. They are, for example, achieving that purpose. 
Undoubtedly certain sections of the middle classes are having to sell 
themselves to the Soviets. Men with brains and wits are hiring out in 
order to live. I saw officers sweeping the streets. I have seen refined 
women selling newspapers. Their quarrel is not with the ability, but 
with the utilization of that, as they feel it does deprive others of 

Senator Oveeman. They have no respect for the educated lady of 
property ? 

Mr. Stoeey. She is forced into this, not by physical violence, as I 
know, but by necessity. If the funds of a doctor's household or a 
lawyer's household run out, they have to get out and make their 

Senator Oveeman. They have to do manual Avork? 


Mr. Storey. Yes. 

Senator Sterling. Well, if they desire to or find it necessary to 
utilize those who are educated and who are intelligent, do they recog- 
nize any proportionate reward for services of that kind i 

Mr. Storey. They would claim, I think, that the reward >houkl be 
substantially equal. 

Senator Wolcott. Let me understand that. May I ask a question? 
I can understand things in concrete terms better than in any other 
way. Let me see if I understand that proposition. Is it this, that 
some lazy fellow who is just driven to make a .slight contribution in 
the way of work, who will not improve himself in anywise, who does 
not care whether he lives in a pig pen or a comfortable home, but yet 
does a little work. gets as much for it as a hard-working, eonseientitius, 
frugal individual ( 

Mr. Storey. Well, in practice that is the way it would work out. 
In theory, they do not recognize the human element in it. 

Senator Wolcott. They go on the theory that everybody does his 
best and everything should be equal, overlooking the fact that some 
who are forced will not do their best, but will do as little as they can. 

Mr. Storey. I have heard it said that it was not necessary for any 
man to work until his back ached; that enough could be produced 
without that. I have heard that remark in Russia. 

Senator Overtax. I want to ask you a question that I have asked 
others. To what extent have vou noticed anything of a Bolshevik 
movement in this country? Have you observed anything going on 
in this country as propaganda ? 

Mr. Storey. I have not taken particular notice of it since I re- 
turned, because I have been here on a rather highly specialized mis- 
sion, and have concentrated upon that. I have noticed in the circn- 
lars and other articles a keen and active desire to know about it. 
Invariably, wherever I go, I am questioned about it. As for evidences 
of organized activity, I simjily have not encountered it. if it exists, 
probably because I have not been circulating. 

Senator Sterling. Have you seen any of the publications made by 
the I. "W. W.. or under the auspices of the I. W. W., in this country, 
and do you know from them how they regard Bolshevism ? 

^Ir. ST()Rf:Y. Xo : I have not. I met a former I. W. W. — I beheve 
in Siberia — who said he had been in the lumber camps of the West. 
He was apparently not as extreme as some of the gentlemen who 
are in authority over him. But my impression about the relation 
between the I. W. W.'s and t-he Bolsheviki from the other side ^vas 
this : The Bolsheviki were appealing to all discontented elements in 
other countries, irrespective of who they were. Beyond that I woidd 
not be able to make any direct connection between them. 

Senator Over^ian. They have the same flag? 

Mr. Storey. They recognize in them a protesting element — some- 
thing in common. 

Maj. HtJ3iES. ISIr. Storey, did you see any of the terrorism in 
Russia for the purpose of perpetuating control, at any of the places 
where you were ? 

Mr. Storey. I saw two sides of it. It was equally evident. I think, 
in Finland, where the reds had control, and on the other side of the 
line where the whites had control. I can not sav that I have a 


feeling that any one group of the Russian population is moi'e fero- 
cious in its attitude toward the other than another group is. 

Maj. Humes. In other words, a state of civil war existed? 

Mr. Stoeet. Yes. 

Maj. HuMKS. Everyone is armed, and they are fighting ad libitum. 

Mr. Storey. Russia demobilized 7,000,000 men within a short 
period of time, and those men took thair arms with them in a great 
many cases, thousands, tens of thousands of them, and how much 
of the terrorism that exists is due to the want of a strong central 
authority, and how much of it is due to deliberate planning, I can 
not say ; I do not know. 

Senator Overman. We want to hold an executive session for an 
hour. We will excuse you. 

(Thereupon, at 4.55 o'clock p. m., the subcommittee went into 
executive [secret] session.) 

executive session. 

The following testimony was taken by the subcommittee in execu- 
tive session, and the name of the witnes.s is not disclosed because of 
the fact that the lives of his relatives in Russia might be endangered 
thereby : 


(The Avitness was sworn by the chairman.) 

Maj. Humes. Mr. , suppose you go aliead and state the con- 
ditions in Russia as you found them, and especially conditions under 
the soviet government. 

Mr. . I have been in Russia close on to 15 years. I was 

located there with a factory, where we had about 2,500 workmen. 
Our factory is running to-day, and even last year, by our last jJ'ear's 
production we filled all our orders. But nobody can explain — I could 
not myself — just exactl_y how that was done or why it was. We 
seemed to have unusual control over the men there, and because of 
the fact that we were making machinery which was necessary for the 
country the workmen stood by us and we ran through. 

I have heard and read the statement that the present government in 
Russia is a Avorkmen's government and all that sort of thing. In my 
estimation that is absolutely false. I have been with the workmen. 
That is all I have done; I have been with the workmen and peasants. 
I never met Prof. Dennis there, or anj^ other of these gentlemen 
here, because I never had time. I was always with the workmen. 
The workingmen in Russia, in the factories, are not Bolsheviki, al- 
though they do not dare to say they are something else. 

Senator Steeling. Do you mean to put it so broad as that? 

Mr. . I do not mean to say that there are no workmen 

who are Bolsheviki. I am taking the workmen as a whole. It is 
the worst element out of each factory, the Avorst element out of the 
country, that has come to the top, and they are supporting the gov- 
ernment. They are supporting this government, being paid, of coui'se, 
large sums, and being given the privilege to loot or anything that 
they wish. It would not do to question a Red Guard. If he said 
something — told you to do something — you would not dare to ques- 
tion it. If you did that it would l)e as much as your life was worth. 


And now, as I say, the government over there is made up of the 
loafers of the industrial and the peasant vrorld, and all the outsiders 
have come running in from other countries. If you go into Moscow 
to do any business with the Bolshevik governmtnt and you come 
upon any of the people higher up in the government, j^ou never 
meet anybodj^ that was born and brought up in Eussia up to the 
date of the revolution. You' meet a man that was born there, prob- 
ably, and went out and came in from the outside after the revolution 
was on. Those people are supposed to be worldng at salaries that 
are often to-day, I believe, below what the workingman was getting, 
below what it would take a man to live on, a decent living wage 
that he was supposed to be getting. In fact, they are getting much 
more money on the side and lots of them are making fortunes. 

In regard to the industries there, when the revolution started, tlie 
Bolshevik revolution around the 1st of November, 1917, the worlmien 
all went with the Bolsheviki. They were all Bolslieviki then, or 
nearly all, because the Bolsheviki told them '' Everji:hing is yours. 
Just take it. You have been opj^ressed.'' They sang such songs to 
those men that it certainly did turn their heads. 

Senator Sterling. But since that time? 

Mr. . Since that time things have changed. Three or four 

or five months after the revolution took place the workmen began 
to open up tlieir eyes, and saw that things were jiot as they thought 
they were. Thej^ are afraid to say so. You will very seldom get a 
workman to say tliat he is not a Bolshevik, but he Avill tell you in 
secret that he is not a Bolslievik. " But wliat can I do? " he will say. 
"I do not dare to say anyihing. I can not do anytliing." They are 
all terrorized, just as the peasants are. 

Maj. Humes. What are the means used to terrorize them? 

Mr. . Shooting them. 

Maj. Humes. Are shootings frequent? 

Mr. . Yes. 

Slaj. Humes. Tell us any incidents of that sort. 

Mr. . I can tell lots of incidents of jDeople disappearing 

by being shot. You know they are shot, because of the number of 
persong disappearing. In Russia they have no place to put them in 
jails. Tliey are just sliot, that is all. 

Maj. Humes. "Was there an eifort made to seize vour factory? 

Mr. . Yes. 

Maj. Hu:mes. ^'\'hat was the manner in which they undertook to 
seize it? What was tlie method used? 

Mr. . There was a decree put out that all factories were na- 
tionalized ; that the factories must be under the control of the work- 
men's committees, etc. We had a worl^men's committee in our 
f actor3% but our worlnnen's committee said to us, " We do not want 
to control this factory. We are perfectly satisfied as it is." Now. 
tliat is about the only factory in Russia where they have acted in tliat 
way. Why it is I can not tell you. It is possible that it was because 
of this. I would aslv, '" How is it that the workmen do not take our 
factory? Wliat is the difference between the other factories and our 
own case ? '' Tlicy would say, " In the other factories the owners do 
not work. They jnst come around occasionally. But here it is differ- 
ent. You are on the job before I am."' They would say to me, "We 
find the superintendents on the job before we are. You leave after 


US." In that way we had their confidence and we were able to carry 
the. thing through. Xow, it wa,s not true in other factories in Russia 
that the managers were ahvays on the job. They were sometimes 
never onthe job. It is true that they were not as strict as we were 
about being around. Some of them would come around for an hour 
and look around and go away. So they took those factories, and ours 
they did not take. 

Senator Overmax. Where is your factory? 

Mr. . In European Eussia. 

Mr. Dennis. What happened to the factory? 

Mr. . I was at the factory in September. It shut 

down — absolutely shut down. 

Senator Steeling. Those were not the factories, were they, where 
the committee visited the manager and told him that they had come 
to take over the factory, that they were the owners of it now, and 
the manager just said, "All right, gentlemen; I must pay out 30,000 
rubles next Saturday. Here are the pajjers, etc.; take them"? And 
thev replied to him, saying, "That is your job." 

Mr. . Yes. 

Senator Sterling. And he told them in reply that if they wei-e 
going to take the factory they must take the responsibility. 

Mr. . Yes. 

Senator Sterling. And that changed the color of things. 

Mr. . That is true in many, many cases. 

Let me tell you what I saw at one factory. The factory was shut 
down. They had a lot of good men that had worked for years, and 
I tried to get some of them. I was sitting with the manager talking 
as one of the men came in and left a note on his table. He said, 
" Just a minute." In a few minutes the same man came back and 
said, " They will not wait. They Avant you right away." He said, 
■' You see I am busy. What can I do? " " It is the committee." " I 
can not do anything : it is the workmen's committee and I can not do 
anything with them." I said, "What is up now? " He said, "I do 
not know. Let them come in." So I said good-by and went away. 
He told me afterwards, " They came in and ordered me out of my 
house, took mj household furniture and everything, and I am out in 
the street." He was cleaning up papers and things. That is what 
happens to 90 per cent of the factories. 

Maj. Humes. How long did they operate that factory? 

Mr. . They never operated it. 

Maj. Hu3iES. Just closed it down? 

Mr. . Just closed it down. 

Senator Oa'erman. What became of the operatives, the workmen? 
Did they go into the army? 

Mr. — . The workmen just scattered, looking for food. 

Senator Overman. Looting, I suppose. 

Mr. . Yes. 

Well I will say, in regard to why our factory was not nationalized, 
that the workmen, Avould not allow the government to nationalize 
it sayino", " If 3^011 nationalize this factory you will close it up the 
same as the others, and we want ' our ' factory to work." 

Senator Sterling. Because of the goods produced? 

Mr, . Possibly. And we had kept telling the workmen right 

alono-, "Do not jump at these things. Keep back, and let the other 

238 BOLSHEVIK propaga>:da. 

fe]lo\\-s try out their experiments, and if it is good perhaps we wil] 
do it." So when they saw what the other factories did, that they 
Avere all shut up in a week or two, our workmen thought that they 
had better not do this. The government sent down to a committee 
to say they would shoot our workmen's committee if they did not 
take over our factory, and oui' workmen's committee came to us and 
said, " "What can we do '. They are going to nationalize the factory 
and shut us doAvn." '" Well," we said. '" hold on, and let us stand 
together and we can probably do something."' We fought it out with 
the government and the workmen said that they would not work 
for the government, and that if they touched any of us they would 
go out on strilve and woukl not work. They said that the gov- 
ernment could never turn out a macliine. So, in that way that affair 
blew over. AYc went into that matter pretty well with our work- 
men's committee and found out what the cause of this was. and 
what started it. It had gone ^long 8 or 10 months without talk of 
nationalizing our factory, they had kind of gone around us. but 
suddenly it came uf). After we went into it we found it was about 
the same as in other case-., somebody looking for the job of manag- 
ing the factory. When they find a factory they will go to the 
Bolsheviki and say, '" Here is a job. Give me this f jictory and I will 
run it." 

Senator Overman. Does he run it or not? 

Mr. . Whether it ^-uns or not, he gets his pay ; and if it does 

not run, if they do not manufacture anything, the government gives 
him money to pay the men Avith. I know an instance of a factory 
a few miles fi'om ours where the gOA'ernment spent 60,000,000 rubles 
to run the factorv for three months, and in that time they produced 
goods Avorth 400,000 rubles. Xoav. if it took 60,000,000 rubles to pro- 
duce goods Avorth 400,000 rubles, that explains the Avay factories are 
run under Bolsheviks. 

Senator Overman. What sort of a factory Avas it I 

Mr. . A locomotive Avorks. 

Senator Sterling. If that is a fair sample of the Avay in Avhich 
the goA ernment runs them, nationalizing them is not an entire suc- 

Mr. . Yes: they have failed to keep the workmen satisfied 

and they have killed the hen that laid the golden egg. In order to 
keep the Avorkmen quiet tliey pay them, and the workmen drink tea 
and read newspapers and smoke cigarettes in the shops instead of 

Senator Sterling. What about the value of that money? 

]Mr. . It is the only means of purchasing they have got — that 


Senator Sterling. It is paper money representing rubles? 

]Mr. . Yes, and Avith that they buy AA'hat they can. But they 

can not buy much. 

Senator Sterling. Has not that money been depreciating all the 
time ? 

^Ir. . Certainly: you can go and buy something to-day that 

would cost 30 rubles and to-morrow it Avould co-t 80. 

Senator Sterling. Do you knoAv Avhat the extent of the deprecia- 
tion is in the Eussian ruble ? 


Mr. -. I do not know. Let lis take it this way. I used to buy 

a suit of clothes for 60 or 70 rubles. Now, I doubt if you could get 
one for 2,000 rubles. 

Mr. Dennis. And you would hare to hunt for it to buy it at that. 

Senator Steeling."^ Two thousand rubles for that which thereto- 
fore cost 60 or 70 rubles ? 

Mr. . Yes ; almost forty times. 

Senator Overjeax. When did you leave Russia ? 

Mr._ . I crossed the frontier on the 7th of October. 

Maj. HiTMES. What experience did you have with fines — as to 
being fined '. 

Mr. . The g'overnment tried to fine us in every way, shape, 

and manner — that is, to levy taxes. We refused to pay. The govern- 
ment used to get at the workmen's committee and ask, " What kind 
of a revolutionary shop are you running? " We told the committee, 
"Do not be hard on us or we will get out." In most cases they did 
just the opposite ; but they tried to put taxes on us in every way. 

They were afraid to use force on us, and our committee backed us 
lip by refusing to do what they wanted it to do ; and then we had 300 
armed men at the factory. We had 300 men fully armed and trained, 
so that if anything happened they would start a little row. It is 
pretty close to the city, and they would not want anything started 

It went along for a long time, and I left Eussia, and it was not paid. 
None of the taxes were paid. One tax was 900,000 rubles. In one of 
the reports that has been made since I came back one of the men 
writes that they are being pushed pretty hard to pay. 

Senator Steeling. The taxes were imposed by the Bolshevik gov- 
ernment ? 

Mr. . Yes. 

Senator Overiman. Nine hundred thousand rubles ? 

Mr. . Altogether, about four and a half million rubles; 

that is, in ordinary tax. If they think a man has anything at all, 
they will tax him for all he has got. 

Senator Sterling. Were you taxed pretty high under the old 
regime ? 

Mr. . Xothing like that. If we paid a tax of .50,000 rubles, 

we thought that was pretty big. The figures now run into millions. 
Now, if you pay this tax to-day, in two weeks maybe they will come 
around to collect the same tax again. We pay that into the local 
soviet, but we do not know Avhere it goes to. AVe have not any idea. 

Before I came over from Eussia I tried to get out by way of 
Siberia to the Czecho-Slovak front, and I was in Nijni Novgorod, 
where Prof. Dennis was. I even called to see him, but he was gone. 
I had about a month going from door to door with peasants, go- 
ing right through the country, just knocking on the door and asking 
them to let me in at night. I spoke Eussian well, and I used to have 
some pretty good talks with the peasants, and I tried to get their 
idea of the Bolsheviki situation. The peasants in Eussia are abso- 
lutely opposed to the Bolsheviki. Before they would let me into the 
house they would ask. "Are you a Bolshevik?" And when I told 
them I was not a Bolshevik but that I was an American, then they 
would open everything and give me anything that I wanted, when 
they knew that 1 was an American. But they Avould not let me in 


until they knew that I was not a BoLhovik. They treated me very 

Now, as to elections in Eussia. I will tell you of an election that 
I saw in this town. I talked with a man that participated in it. At 
one place they had a soviet which was elected just at the beginning 
of the Bolshevik revolution, and it ran along for a whole year. Thev 
were in jDower, but the Czecho-Slovaks were coming up and the peo- 
ple, the peasants all around, would say. "' When are they coming? 
Why do they not come ''. ^Vhy do the allies not come I The allies 
are right close up." They used to point to some place where you 
could say that the allies were. I do not know how they used" to 
find it out, but it passed from mouth to mouth. In the city which 
is the capital of the state of Xovgorod, where there was a soviet, 
they heard that the soviet in this town of Xijni Xovgorod was not 
as Bolshevik as it should be, and the ]:)eople around there were pretty 
anxious that the Czecho-Slovaks shoulcl come in; so one day they 
sent their men down there, three delegates, to meet and talk with 
them, and the soldiers rounded up as many of the members of the 
soviet as they could and shot some of them, but some of them got 

Senator Sterling. Just for the reason that they were not Bol- 
shevik, they were shot? 

Mr. . That is all. Then they called a meeting of all the 

peasants who were elected to represent the diiferent villages around— 
this was a county' seat; that is what it Avas. 

Senator Steeling. A county soviet? 

Mr. . They called them in to hold another election and 

one of the men told me this story. Here are the very words that they 
used at this election. They called these peasants in and one of these 
men from the capital said to them, "' We have got to elect a new soviet. 
This soviet is going to be Bolshevik. If you elect any man to this 
soviet that is not a Bolshevik we will shoot him. Any man who is 
here that is not a Bolshevik can get out." 

Well, they pretty nearly all went out. A few stayed around. 1 
do not know whether they were Bolshevik or what they were. They 
had some elections, but they did not elect enough men. Whether 
they could not find enough candidates or whether there were not 
enough If^ft in the paity I don't know. So one of them just went 
around the village asking who were Bolshevik, and they went over 
the village and picked out men for that soviet. I looked into the 
character of one man protty well and I found that he was a drunk- 
ard, had never owned, you might say. the shirt on his back; just a 
thug. He was one of the representatives. He was called in there 
and put in, and told " You are elected." That is the way they car- 
ried on the election there, and I think you will find that that story is 
typical of how they elect their Soviets all over Eussia. 

Senator Sterling. How are those members of the soviet appor- 
tioned among the population ; what is the ratio ? 

Mr. . TJiat I have forgotten. I think it is 1 to every ^.I.OOO 

workmen and 1 to every 42.">,000 peasants. There has been a com- 
plaint about it on the part of the peasants. 

(Thereupon, at .5.30 o'clock p. m., the subcommittee adjourned 
until to-morrow. Friday, February 14, 1910. at 2.30 o'clock p. m.) 


FRIDAY, rEBRTTAKY 14, 1919. 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee of the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington, D. G. 
The subcommittee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 2.30 o'clock 
p. m., in room 226, Senate Office Building, Senator Lee S. Overman 

Present: Senators Overman (chairman), King, Wolcott, Nelson, 
and Sterling. 

Senator Overman. The committee will come to order. Maj. 
Humes, will you please call the next witness? 
Maj. Humes. I will call Madame Breshkovskaya. 


(The witness was sworn by the chairman.) 

Maj. Humes. When did you leave Eussia? 

Mrs. Breshkovskaya. I left Russia two months ago. 

Maj. Humes. When you left Eussia what was the condition of the 
schools in Eussia ? Were they in operation ? 

Mrs. Breshkovskaya. We had no schools, we had no teachers, we 
had no pencils, no inks. Even when I was in Moscow, for months 
we could not get ink. When you did get it, it was very bad. 

Maj. Humes. Do you know whether the schools are in operation 
in any part of Eussia? 

Mrs. Breshkovskaya. There were schools last year, but now they 
are empty. The teachers were thrown out by the Bolsheviki, and 
many had nothing to do, because they had no furniture, no materials 
to teach the children. There were also no books. I was asked by 
my teachers to come to America and to pray, and pray very deeply, 
to bring some millions of books back to our peasant children, for we 
had no books. 

Maj. Humes. When you loft Eussia, were any of the factories in 
Russia running? 

Mrs. Breshkovskaya. Perhaps you have read in your papers and 
perhaps you have learned from your own people in the Eed Cross 
and the Young Men's Christian Association in Eussia that there is 
no clothing, no food, and no goods. Even our cooperations have noth- 
ing to sell to the peasants, for we have no industry now at all. The 
factories are destroyed, and there are no importations, for we have 
no transportation ; no railroads for transportation. 

Eussia gives the privilege to every American to come there, and 
it is our custom and habit to give preference especially to the Ameri- 
85723—19 16 241 


can people. For many years we were accustomed to treat the Ameri- 
can people as our friends. Up until this time the Russian people 
were fond of the American people, and they were not afraid of their, 

Industry is quite destroyed, and we have no furniture for the use 
of our schools. We have no machines ; we have no tools, no scissors, 
no knives, or any of such things. We have here many merchants who 
came to beg something for Russia, some goods ; but nothing is running 
to transport them. 

Senator O^^erman. Where is your home, madam ? 

Mrs. Beeshkovskata. My home, sir, is Russia. 

Senator Overman. What part of Russia? 

Mrs. Breshkovskaya. All over. I have no home of my own; no 
house, no home. 

Senator Nelson. What part of Russia were you born in ? 

Mrs. Beeshkovskata. You know, perhaps, that half of my life I 
spent in prison and in Siberia. 

Senator Overman. How long were you in prison ? 

Mrs. Beeshkovskata. Thirty-two years. 

Senator Overman. Thirty-two years in prison ? 

Mrs. Breshkovskata. Yes; in prison, in exile, and at hard work, 
altogether, in the hands of our despotism, for 32 years ; that is all. 

Senator Overman. What is your age now ? 

Mrs. Beeshkovskata. Seventy-five. 

Senator Wolcott. For what were you in prison ? 

Mrs. Breshkovskaya. For socialist propaganda among my people. 
We have had a dynasty of moiiarchs, who were terrible despots, in 

Perhaps you have all heard that 15 years ago I was in America, 
and I told all that to your citizens. 

Senator Overman. How does the condition of the Russian people 
to-day compare with the condition when you first came over here? 

Mrs. Beeshkovskata. We Russian socialists and revolutionists 
were so happy to see Russia free two years ago, and we hoped when 
we got quite free to get excellent laws for her freedom all over 
Russia, under the government of Kerensky. We got political free- 
dom and personal and social freedom, and we hoped to begin to 
build the Russian State on a new form. We could do it, for the 
government was in the hands of the people, and all the peasants 
and all the workmen and all the soldiers were together and accepted 
those laws. We hoped to get land for all, and the Kerensky govern- 
ment wrote many times in the papers and announced that the people 
ATOukl get the land, but that we should wait until there could be a 
national assembly which would confirm all these new laws. So I 
say that for six months the Russian people were free, and had in their 
hands every possibility to have order and to have freedom, and to 
have land. 

Senator Overman. Have you freedom there now? 

Mrs. Breshkovkaya. Perhaps you know, sir, that many years 
ago the German Government sent her spies over to Russia and pi'e- 
pared this war ; and not only the Germans, but many Russians who 
were abroad. When the revolution Avas on and everybody was free, 
and Russia was about to have a constituent assembly, out of Germany 


came Lenine and Trotsky with their group, and all these traitors of 
Russia came to begin their propaganda. Perhaps you will say it was 
the fault of our provisional government not to take them and put 
them into prison. Perhaps you will say it ; but the government was so 
liberal and hoped to see our people so happy with new possibilities, 
that it would not make any arrests. It was too liberal. And, as vou 
will remember, it was a time of war, and Russia was weary of this 
war, and there were 20,000,000 Russians, grown up boys and men, who 
were sent to the front, and for three years Russia was forced to work 
only for these 20,000,000, making nothing for herself. The people 
were tired and weary, and our soldiers, when they got the propaganda 
from Germany and from the Bolsheviki who came into Russia, were 
very glad to hear it. They believed that the German population were 
brothers of our Russian soldiers, that the German soldiers and the 
Russian soldiers were brothers, so they had no reason for continuing 
the war. 

Then Lenine and Trotsky, with the aid of German money, over- 
flowed Russia with their propaganda. 

We also have now many, many millions of paper money printed 
by Lenine and Trotsky, and it is a great misfortune for Russia. All 
the people who served our tyrants in Russia, the old bureaucratic 
class, the gendarmes, all those of the old regime, became Bolsheviki, 
and they made a large company who would overthrow the regime of 
Kerensky in Russia. 

After October of 1917, when we saw that the Kerensky govern- 
ment was overthrown, with all faithful servants of our people we 
immediately addressed our hopes and our prayers to our so-called 
allies. I myself, 14 months ago, wrote a letter to the ambassador ot 
America, Mr. Francis, exposing to him all that was done; that we 
had no national assembly in which people could express their views ; 
that it was overthrown by the Bolsheviki, and instead we came under 
two gendarmes, Lenine and Trotsky. Our people, believing perhaps 
at first that they would do some good, even listened to them. Lenine 
said himself, " Nothing will be of us. There will be another czar 
after the Bolshe^'iki. But a legend will remain in Russia after us." 

But now, these days, all say Russia is in fault. I wrote to your 
embassy in Russia that if you would be so good as to give us some 
support (from 50,000 good soldiers of your armies) the Bolsheviki 
would be overthrown. Yet I got no answer. 

Meanwhile in Siberia, and over all Russia, the criminals were set 
at liberty, and after the Brest-Litovsk peace we got in Moscow two 
mighty rulers, Lenine, and Gen. Mirbach from Prussia. He was 
there, and he was all over Russia. He asked to get all the Germa.i 
and Magyar prisoners to be gathered and armed, to malce new troop.i 
against Russia. He asked, too, to disarm at once the Czecho-Slovaks, 
who forced their way to Vladivostok to get to France. Lenine obeyed 
these orders and sent troops to do it. The Czecho-Slovaks had no 
more desire to remain in Russia. They wished to go to France. Rus- 
sia, after the Brest-Litovsk peace, could not use their forces, so that 
they tried to get to Vladivostok, and their little army of 80.000 troops 
were dispersed over the Volga and awav about Siberia. Mirbach 
understood that this was so much good for those soldiers to j::3i "> 
France and come back against Germany, so he gave the order to^ 


disarm them. The first troops, who were nearest to ^Moscow, were 
disarmed. Yet they left some arms with them. Then IMirbach 
ordered to disarm tliem all — every Czecho-Slovak soldier. 

Then came some Eed Guards from the part of the Bolsheviki out 
of Moscow, with some oificers, and they asked the Czecho-Slovaks to 
be disarmed. The Czecho-Slovaks understood that if disarmed they 
would be as prisoners and left in Siberia, and that Mirbach would 
make of them all he wished ; so they decided not to go to Siberia and 
not to he disarmed, but to turn toward the west, and they began to 
fight — these gallant soldiers. 

First, they took the town of Nicolaievsk, and then Omsk and then 

All the time Lenine and Trotsk}' and all the so-called Bolsheviki 
were entertained and given support from Germany by the German 
Kaiser and liis Government. I do not know if the German people 
were in this complot. Certainly German soldiers, many of them, 
were, for they would make show of their brotherhood to our soldiers. 

After disorder grew, after all our factories and mills were de- 
stroj'ed in Moscow and Petrograd, all our depots and supplies which 
had been provided by our zemst^'o, by Kerensky's government, all that 
was given to the Germans. The Bolsheviki could not oppose in any 
wav. They were quite dependent on the German Government and 
Mil-bach and the other German generals, for we had no army, and he 
would have the support of the German Government. 

Senator Steeling. Were German soldiers helping the Bolsheviki 
against the Czecho-Slovaks ? 

Mrs. Beeshkovskata. Help themi Against the Czecho-Slovaks? 
Certainly, and the Czecho-Slovaks combated vtry well with the Ger- 
man people and the Magyars. They hated them, yes. Now they are 
entirely for themselves, and as they have their own republic, they 
would go back. Now Russia will be left quite alone. Yes ; if we had 
our own forces ; the Russian forces against the Bolsheviki. We had no 
organization to fight with them. The Bolsheviki grew and grew in 
forces. Idle men, who did not have any work, for all the factories 
were shut, nolens volens became Bolsheviki, too, because there was 
nothing to eat. The industries were all gone. The factories were 
shut, and there was no material to work on and no desire to work on 
the part of the workers. They said all the bourgeois had to be over- 
thrown, and the workmen would work alone to make our industries. 
Not so many, but a few, of the Bolsheviki gave the example of giving 
the factories into the hands of the workmen. In one or two months it 
all was destroyed. Nobody worked, and they could not continue be- 
cause they were inexperienced in these matters. 

Our peasants alone are working in the villages. There is not any 
industry since then. For instance, take the coal mines; it is so easy 
to use them. But they could not use them. You must feel, yourself, 
the need of the Russian people. 

We ask you for everything. We ask you to give us paper, to give 
us scissors, to give us matches, to give us clothes, to give us leather to 
make boots. We ask everything; not because we are so poor, but all 
our riches are under the ground. Russia is destroyed in industry and 
husbandry. There is no industry at all. What'we need is to" have 
handicrafts in Russia, to have schools, and to spin and weave, and to 


make boots; because we are naked. I am ashamed to expii^ss myself 
that we are like mendicants now; that ^^'e must ask everything,' ever 
things like this [indicating a penholder], but it is so. Vou'know 
when you send your Eed Cross you send your medicines and (•vi>r\ 
sort of necessity. If you came without your own medicines and othei 
things, without your clothing, you would do nothing, because there if 
nothing to work with. ' 

Also I assert that the Bolsheviki destroyed Enssia and divided h 
and corrupted the people of Russia. They turned loose on the peo- 
ple all the criminals that were out and in the prisons. They are mm 
with the Bolsheviki. They have ne\-er a yoA ic-< com|:0£;:;;l ^,J all h ,.:. ji 
people. They are the refuse of our people in Euasia. 

And now you ask, how does the people support such conditions '( 
Dear me, our people supported for 300 years our desj^otism, and 
when 15 years ago 1 was here in America I was asked '' If youi 
despotism is so bad, why do you people stand it? " Our peoi^le arc 
illiterate. Our people never had access to the government ; never hac 
sense to deal with the political questions; ncA-er were pei'mitted tc 
read papers where was stated the truth. Our people are like children 
There is a person here who has spent three years in Russia, ami he 
■says to me, " Oh, yes ; to understand the psychology of your people 
one must understand the psycholog}' of children." They are good- 
hearted and openhearted, and they ha^■e confidence in everv'.ue 
especially in those who after so many hundreds of cycles of repres- 
sion and poverty and suffering will promise them to ha^o peace, as 
did the Bolsheviki ; to have bread, to have schools, to have everything 
They did believe it. Now. they do not believe anyone. But thcic i; 
nothing now to have. And after that, I do not hope that any of oui 
allies will be so generous — I will say so bold — as to give us armed 
help. I do not hope. 

I see everybody" is so much involved with their own affairs and in- 
terests, that Russia is left alone. Yet the Russian people woidd be 
raised up by those who would give them help, Avho would give them 
tokens of their friendship not only with words and not only with 
promises, but with real help ; to secure our railroads, for instance; tc 
have for us school books ; to have for us merchandise and several sorts 
of machines; for our peasants began to be accustomed t" have 
machines out of Germany and out of America. Now, we have none 
at all. All that wc had before is used up, now. For five years we 
have not been working for ourselves; for five years, three years with 
Germany and noAv two years in civil war. Lenine and Trotsky prom- 
ised to make peace and to have peace in Russia, a'^d after their peace 
with the Germans in Brest-Litovsk they said. " We will rec-.niSLruct 
Russia "; and when German troops came into west Russia, and made 
every sort of disorder, then Trotsky exclaimed, " We shall have a 
crusade against Germany: " yet in tw,o weeks Lenir.c made a decla- 
ration, " We are not so "foolish as to begin again to make vrar with 
somebody, for certainly otherwise our efforts to deepen and dcoi)en 
the revolution would fail," and instead of beginning to make war 
with the German people, they began to make civil war in Russia ; 
and instead of having one front, between Russia and Germany, we 
have now, I will not say five, but I will say hundreds of fronts all 
over Russia, for everywhere we have gangs and bands. Now. the 


people, being starving, being naked, they will go and serve Trotsky 
or any leader or any general, who will make them brigands. Here 
they turn around, and Avith Germans, and others, prisoners of Russia, 
all Eussia is robbed, and all Russia has nothing now, and all Russia 
will fight, perhaps, for many years among themselves, before they 
get out of this boiling pot, and will find out an issue for themselves. 

1 will not say anybody is in fault, no; but we are left alone, and 
we do not now hope to get any support from any side. It will be 
very hard for us to fight in our own countiy for five, six, I do not 
know how many years, before we begin to be reasonable and strong- 
minded, and understand our own interests. 

Yes, the people is depressed, morally and spiritually depressed ; and 
it is not so fresh, you know, not at all. Depressed, the people is. And 
now bolshevism will not be finished in Russia so soon, for we see now 
that it spreads more and more around Russia. When I was talking 
to one member of our elected government. Gen. Boldoreff, he said, 
" See. in some years we are going to give help and restore order in 
Europe." Certainly, Russia shall help herself, and have rest and 
order, and then it is quite sure that this venom of Bolshevism will die 
out. You in America, you mix together Bolshevism and socialism. I 
have been a socialist for 50 years, and 1 wished to get my people free, 
and have all political rights in Russia;' and when two years ago we 
got them, then I would say to myself, '" Now we will construct, and 
not destroj\ We will construct; we Avill raise our people and build 
and construct and create, to make a beautiful place out of Russia." 
And the Bolsheviki are now saying, " We must destroy, and destroy, 
and destroy." 

I have a letter from one of m}'' young partners who brought his 
wife from Petrograd to ^Vladivostok. Everywhere where the Bolshe- 
viki are, there are no intelligent people; there is no intelligence; all 
killed or hidden, for they destroyed not only our factories and our 
mills, and not only our schools, but they destroyed, they killed, all the 
intelligent people, the best professors, the best professional men, the 
best men we had in Russia, hundreds of them; and I myself was 
hidden for two months in Petrograd, and for six months in Moscow 
before I left it. Thousands of old socialists, revolutionists, are killed 
by the Bolsheviki as being reactionary and counter-revolutionists. 

Senator Overman. Why did you hide^ 

jMrs. Breshkovskava. Oh. dear me ! I was illegal in Eussia. I 
have friends who hid me. I expected to live in Russia, in this part 
where there are not Bolsheviki, and to work with my iDeasants. Our 
peasants aie everywhere; and evcrj' peasant is so tired of tlie Bol- 
shevism that he only says. "' If only some good people would come and 
rescue us ! " Very oiten I have said, " For shame ! You ask help of 
them, and you ask the American people. Why do you not help your- 
selves? " " Oh, we are so tired; and we are disarmed." You see, the 
(yerman Government was so clever, had so much foresight ; and all 
our soldiers who were discharged were disarmed before this coup 

Senator Sterling. So that the peasants had no arms '. 

Mrs. Beeshkovskaya. \o ?rnis, no powder. They were without 
anv arri-s. And the Bolsheviki have all things. 


I will finish my speech by repeating what I have said, if you 
Americans could help us and aid us to have in Eussia a national con- 
stituent assembly, it would appease all the people. When it is said 
that you Americans do not know how you can act, it is not essential, to 
my mind. You could act ; and in Eussia you can not understand how 
it is. It is quite simple. We are an original people, perhaps; 
but we need what all other people need. We need order ; we need to 
work ; we need political freedom ; we need all that is due to every free 
nationality; a quite democratic government; not, as they claim, any 
Lenine and Trotslcy, but a government elected by the people. 

We must have good transportation. We have now none. Also, we 
must have schools. 

Maj. Httmes. Which government treated the i^eople of Eussia the 
best, the old regime government or the Trotsky-Lenine government ? 

Mrs. Bkeshkovskaya. Ah, perhaps many people are now, espe- 
cially among the peasants, calling for the Czar again. They were 
denied paper and newspapers and education, but they could work; 
and that is now impossible. Everywhere we have fighting fronts, and 
everywhere the people are persecuted, and everywhere we have Sov- 
iets, and the Soviets are composed of people sent out from Petrograd 
and Moscow, that rule the district. Certainly the mindful would 
never have a tsar again; never, never! Even the most of the 
people never would have him again ; and we will fight until we have 
a democratic government. But when we compare this view with the 
conditions under Lenine and Trotslcy, if it would endure twenty 
years, for instance, Eussia would be dead. The people would be kept 

Senator Nelson. Do you believe that Lenine and Trotslcy were the 
tools of Germany ? 

Mrs. Beeshkovskaya. I do not believe it ; I am sure of it, sir. 

Senator Nelson. Do you believe that they received German money ? 

Mrs. Beeshkovskaya. Yes. They also make this paper money and 
flood Eussia with it. Every pood of our rye bread now costs 500 or 
600 rubles. 

Senator Nelson. Do you believe that the bolshevik government of 
Lenine and Trotsky is a tyranny and a danger and a menace to 
Eussia ? 

Mrs. Beeshkovskaya. It is. But more than a danger, it is destroy- 
ing Eussia. It is on the verge of being quite destroyed. 

Senator Nelson. Do you believe that this government will be de- 
tructive of the liberties of the Eussian people ? _ 

Mrs. Beeshkovskaya. Alrea,dy we have no liberty in Eyssia. No 
newspapers except the bolshevik newspapers are permitted, sir, and 
therefore you read only bolshevik newspapers. There are no universi- 
ties no colleges, and no schools. All of them are shut. Certainly 
Eussia will struggle and will shed her own blood for many, many 
years to become free. We have no freedom in Eussia. 

Senator Nelson. Is this government by Lenine and Trotsky worse 
for the Eussian people than even the bad government of the Czar ? 

Mrs. Beeshkovskaya. What a question do you ask, sir ! I, for in- 
stance would suffer for twenty years not to have a czar; but simple 
people' who work for their bread would certainly prefer a czar to 


Trotsky and Lenine. I can not believe that 180,000,000 people 
\TOuld have to suffer and struggle without any peace. It is impossible. 
It will be finislied. And if Eussia will have a czar, if Eussia will 
have dictators, if Eussia will have bolsheviki, it will be the fault of 
our allies, because they do not help us. 

Senator Nelson. What is the feeling of the Eussian peasants to- 
wards the bolshe^•ik government? How do vou stand with reference 
to it? 

^Irs. Beeshkovskaxa. They are all against the bolsheviki. When 
the bolsheviki come to the village and ask for bread and grain and po- 
tatoes and meat, they fight with them. They fight with sticks against 
them. They will not be robbed. They have been robbed by German 
troops and robbed by the bolshevik troops, and robbed by Magyar 
troops. The bolsheviki consider the peasants bourgeois if they have a 
cow, some grain, and some potatoes. Only proletariat, only those who 
have nothing at all, can go about Eussia and rob everyone. We have 
no banks, we ha^-e no stores or shops, we have no ships, we have 
nothing now, and we have thousands and thousands of people without 
work, who join the troops and go all over Eussia. 

Senator Steeling. I would like to ask what you think of the 
withdrawal of the allied forces from Eussia — the French, British, 
and American troops, that were there? 

Mrs. Beeshko^'skaya. You ask only about the American troops? 

Senator Steeling. All allied troops. 

Mrs. Beeshkovsivata. I shall be frank and say that the French 
and British troops, especially the British troops in Omsk, were in 
fault for the last coup d'etat. Certainly if thej^ had not had those 
troops they would not have made us appoint dictators instead of 
electing people. 

Senator Steeling. I do not quite understand. 

Mrs. Beeshkovskata. The French and British troops in Omsk are 
responsible for the coup d'etat which put a dictator in in place of an 
elected assembly, and of course we are not in favor of such kind of 

Senator Steeling. But aside from that, do you think the presence 
of allied troops, American, French, and British, aside from the cir- 
cumstance that you name, would be helpful to Eussia ? 

Mrs. Beeshkovskaya. If they should fight with us against the 
bolsheviki they would aid us, but when they leave the bolsheviki 
to do what they wish to do, it will not help us. Eussia has no arms, 
no munitions, nothing, and the allied forces are coo few; 1,000 
British, 2,000 French, and 1,000 Italians. Already our neighbors, 
the Japanese, are sending in their troops, and instead of having in 
Eussia the American intervention, American aid, we will have the 
intervention of Japanese troops, with very selfish intentions. And 
perhaps some dictator will be able to use them to give the whole of 
Siberia to the Japanese people and to keep Eussia for some years 
more in civil war. I assure you, sir, there will be a time when the 
Japanese and German people will have an alliance; and certainly 
the first who will suffer will be Eussia. You will not help us unless 
you keep out such invaders as the Japanese, and help us to get rid 
of the criminals such as the Bolsheviki. Of that I am sure. 


Senator Sterling. Do you think a sufficient allied force in Russis 
would help to restore the constituent assembly to power and giv( 
you a democratic government? 

Mrs. Beeshkoyskata. Not only a lai-ge force of troops would help 
but if committees would come to Russia and ask to have an assembl] 
formed in Russia, it would help. If you had come to our help i 
year ago, perhaps 20,000 of your troops would have been sufficient 
Now it will take 50,000; not less and perhaps more. Fifty thousanc 
armed troops that would fight would help us to reestablish the con 
stituent assembly. 

Senator Sterling. Do you think, Madame, that an army of 15,00( 
or 20,000 allied troops would have prevented the establishment of i 
Bolshevik government in Moscow? 

Mi's. Breshkoyskaya. I am sure of it. Even yesterday a Czecho 
Slovak said to me that if they were not supported they could not hole 
out; they could not fight alone. The Russian people have no arm 
and the BolsheYiki would be sure to get through into IJkrainia, anc 
with the aid of the German troops they would go straight througl 
the country. When you ask how many troops would be needed, r 
depends. If you put a million troops in a place and they did noth 
ing, they would not be as good as 50,000 troops who could fight. I 
you get 50,000 troops that will fight, that will be enough. 

Senator Steeling. Do you think such troops would be welcome( 
by all but the Bolsheviki? 

Mrs. Breshkovskay'a. Certainly, if they asked for them a year age 
They are crying, " Sa^•e us. Come and defeat the Bolsheviki, for w 
can not exist. There is no work in Russia." 

Senator Steeling. Suppose this BolshcY-ik rule goes on, and as ; 
result of Bolshevik rule there is disorder nnd chaos in Russia, will i 
not lead eventually to the domination of Russia by Germany ? 

Mrs. Beeshkovskay'a. Certainly. 

Senator Steeling. You think it would? 

Mrs. Beeshkovskaya. If Bolshevik rule ctmtinues, Japan and G;er 
many will cut Russia into pieces. That is quite plain, for havini 
no forces to fight against them, and always occupied with her in 
terior disorders, certainly those two neighbors will come in and mak 
of Russia their own colonies. The Japanese have already begun t' 
make them. They already have bought houses and materials an( 
goods in the east of Siberia, and have openly confessed that it is t 
their interest to have Siberia in their hands, to keep for themselves 
and they say, " We can not permit anyone, including the America] 
people, to ask us to take a subordinate position." 

Senator Steeling. Is there any possibility of America helping in 
dustrially as long as the Bolsheviki rule? 

Mrs. Beeshkovskaya. While the Bolsheviki rule ? Would you as. 
us to sit at the table with criminals and deal with them? If all Rus 
sia is "destroyed, and all the people shot or hung, it means nothiuj 
to them. All they want is to sit and rule, after they have corruptei 
our people, corrupted our soldiers, and corrupted our sailors am 
corrupted our workers. Only peasants they could not corrupt, be 
cause in every village there are only a very few Bolsheviki. 

Senator Steeling. And on that question you feel that you can no 
treat or deal with the Bolsheviki? 


Mrs. Breshkovskata. Certainly not; not when they deceive every- 
body and destroy e\ eryone, especially honest people. Honest and in- 
telligent people are destroyed in Russia. I say to you that for the 
head of Kerensky they promised 100,000 rubles — only to have his 

Senator Sterling. Madam, have you read the appeal of the Eus- 
sian Economic League to the people of America in regard to the 
withdrawal of American forces from Russia ? 

Mrs. Breshkovskata. No, I have not. 

Senator Sterling. It is an appeal by five or six whose names I do 
not now recall. 

jNIrs. Breshkovskata. I do not remember. I read, sir, two months 
ago that your good President wanted to give from your American 
bank $5,000,000 to aid commerce between America and Russia and 
Russian corporations and people. That is very well. But I ask you 
what will be the use of this proposition if we have already Ameri- 
can goods in Vladivostok, many millions of tons, and we can not 
move them, and speculators get hold of them and hold them for 
high prioi'S, and thej' can not move them because there are no rail- 
ways^ Sugar costs 20 rubles in Kharbin, and they sell it for 800 
rubles in Omsk. It is impossible to get goods from that place. We 
have no sugar. To'day- some lady asked me Avhy we had no sugar. 
A short time ago we had no grain, and we had no oil — no kerosene 
;;il. We have no bread. There is some bread in the villages, but in 
Moscow tliere is not. Neither is there any in Petrogracl. They have 
no grain. \\\ of our provinces are depending one upon another, and 
will have to do so until we have railroads and communication on the 
rivers. Until then we Avill always be depending upon one another. 
All improvements in husbandry and in agriculture have been stopped, 
and any improvements in industry have been stopped. We have none 

Bolshevists got their principles mainly from the socialists, and 
misused them. Instead of creating in Russia they began to destroy 
and overthrow what was done until now. 

I am surprised that you, who are so clever and so mighty, you do 
not go and see yourselves what has happened to Russia. But do not 
see only the Bolsheviki, in some towns, but go thi-ough all towns and 
ask our people and our workmen what is their idea. Russia is 12,000 
miles long and 6,000 miles broad, and it can not be known by any 
except those that spend all their lives, as to what is there, what 
is their people, and what is their country, and what are their suffer- 
ings, and what are their needs. For 2.5 years I had to learn and for 
50 years to struggle against every evil and every misfortune which 
our people suffered. 

Senator Sterling. To what extent, madam, are there soviet gov- 
ernments in Siberia? 

Mrs. Breshkovskata. There are none. Perhaps somewhere there 
^re, but I do not know of any in Siberia. 

Senator Sterling. In European Russia are there any soviet gov- 
ernments that are not controlled by the Bolshevik element ? 

Mrs. Breshkovskata. Every soviet government now springs up 
controlled by brigands, like bubbles out of the water. 


Senator Steeling. They do not have to be residents of the town o 
•district in order to beccane members of the soviet? 

Mrs. Breshkovskaya. Now, they come with guns and take posses 
sion of the Soviets. If the Eussian people could have been organizec 
they -^^ould have overthrown the Bolsheviki and the Soviets long age 
But there has been a collapse of forces, a collapse of spirit, and w 
can not accuse our people. They have suffered all through the cen 
turies, as serfs under a despotic government, and now in this terribl they ha-^-e suffered much. Many mothers had six boys at th 
front. They are quite ignorant of their country. The people in th 
provinces have no conception of what is going on around them 
Every peasant knows only his village, his district, and nothing more 
Yet we will work, and we will learn, and some day we will be 
strong, religious people. We are religious. 

Maj. Humes. Is there a greater amount of crops planted unde 
Bolshevik rule than under the old regime ? 

Mrs. BRESHKovsiiAYA. Planting is diminishing. The landlords ar 
not so bold to risk, and the peasants are not so sure the land will b 
for them, and thei-efore they will not even attempt to cultivate mud 
land, and without horses they can not, so the planting diminishe 
and diminishes. "We have not exported any grain for five years. Al 
was left in Russia. Nevertheless they are quite near starvation 
What does it mean? It means that for instance in many province 
the peasants are hiding their grain. They will not sell it into th 
towns. They are always saying, " Give us goods. Give us machinery 
wares and goods, sugar and tea, all Y>e need, and we will sell you ou 
grain. Otherwise, you give us some paper money, and what shall w 
do with it? Nothing at all." And they think, too, that they must sel 
at the price fixed by the Bolsheviki where there are Bolsheviki. am 
this price is not high ; but when they 'want to get anything in town— 
to buy anything else — thej^ must pay for a pound of sugar 40 rubles 
Therefore they will not sell their grain to the Bolsheviki, an( 
brigands are going over Russia and robbing them, so that they ari 
hiding their grain in the ground — making great holes in the grounc 
nnd putting the grain in — and much of the grain is x'otting. All ove: 
Russia it is destroy, and destroy. There is no order, no industry 
and no work. 

Senator Steelinc. Do you have any idea, madam, how man; 
people have been killed by the Bolsheviki? Has there been an}' esti 
mate made? 

Mrs. Breshkovskata. It is said that the war against the German 
took only half of those who are killed now. Twice as much as w( 
Irad in casualties during the war have been killed by the Bolsheviki 
It is not imaginable to you. They shoot, for instance, thousands anc 
thousands of them at once. Ever}' man and every woman who ii 
against them, as they believe, is shot cr hanged. 

Senator Over^iax. How many people have fled the territory oi 
account of this terrorism ? 

Mrs. Bkeshkovskava. All the provinces are overflowed with refu 
'"■ees. There are refugees in every town now, and we have committeei 
for refuo'ees. They come out of the towns quite naiked. They comi 
in durina"the night, women with children, and old women, and man] 


of tliem come from the towns quite naked. And of sickness, there is 
ty]^hiis everywhere. 

Senator Wolcott. Do you know of any agents who are spreading 
the Bolshevik propaganda in this country? 

Mrs. Beeshkovskaya. I have lieard of them. I have heard that 
you have 3.000,000 Eussian Bolshevik refugees. Perhaps it is not 
quite ^o much. But I am sure that all the Bolsheviki, all these 
criminals who are making propaganda in Russia, will make the same 
propaganda everywhere. They will not work, but they always have 
means to put out this propaganda. Here in America your democ- 
racy could be so well organized against Bolshevism. I am sure there 
is liberty of association here, of assembly, of unions, and so we 
socialists hoped to have such an organization in Eussia during the 
first three or four months after the revolution; but until now man- 
kind has many bad instincts, it is true; and when one comes to the 
poor people and demonstrates his worst side of nature, certainly they 
will find things pretty bad. And so it was in Russia. But I am 
glad to say that all the Russian people are not corrupted. Yet it is 
quite enough to have some 100,000 of such corrupted people, to In-ing 
misfortune over the whole country. It is quite enough. We have no 
navy, we have no factories, we have no guns, we have no transporta- 
tion. All of those which we had the Bolshe-\-iki have sold to the 
German people. ^A'hen I spent six months in hiding in Moscow, every 
day there was a train going to Orsba, a town down near Germany. 
Every day they sent down cars loaded with goods from Moscow to 
Germany. Every day goods were carried out. So that our national 
riches, our best art productions, and all of that, has gone to Germanv. 
All of that they sent to Germany and nothing was left for the people. 
Ask anybody if the organization of the Bolsheviki is for the welfare 
of our people, and nobody will answer you that it is. We have no 
schools, no colleges, no universities. You will read in the papers that 
everybody is working and learning. But the fact is that there are 
no factories, no mills, nor anything. 


(The witness was sworn by the chairman.) 

Maj. Htjmes. Mr. Smith, where do you live? 

Mr. Smith. Brooklyn, N. Y., at present- 
Ma]'. Humes. What is your business? What are you connected 
with ? 

Mr. Smith. The National City Bank. 

Maj. Hr^iEs. Were you connected with the National City Bank 
in Petrograd? 

Mr. Smith. I was. 

Maj. Htjmes. When did you leave Petrograd? 

Mr. Smith. September 2. 

Senator Wolcott. What A^ear? 

Mr. Smith. 1918. 

Maj. Humes. In September, 1918? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 

Senator Ovehmax. Did you come away with this American colony? 

Mr. Smith. Yes, I came out with Mr. Lee's party. 


Senator Ovehjiax. Why did you leave there? 

Mr. Smith. Why, tlie American consul, Mr. Poole, had received 
word from the Government to get all the Americans out, and we 
look the opportunity to get out. Conditions were certainly get- 
ting worse and there was no good in our remaining. 

Maj. 'Humes. Mr. Smith, will you just describe in your own 
way the condition of affairs as you found them in such parts of 
Eussia as you visited, commencing with the November revolution 
and the events leading up to that revolution, through to the time you 

Mr. Smith. I came in there in June, 1917, in the early part of 
June, and was present at the time the Bolsheviki in July first tried 
to take power and were put down by Kerensky, who brought up 
forces from the front. I was there during the summer, and at the 
time when the Bolsheviki wore finally successful, when Kerensky 
was forced to flee. They had the provisional government in the 
Winter Palace — that is, the ministers — and the final taking of the 
Winter Palace took place in the early morning, and the following 
morning we saw prisoners being led out by these sailors from 
Kronstaclt, after the Bolsheviki were in full control of the city. 

Maj. Humes. What were they leading the prisoners out for? 

Mr. Smith. "\'\1ien they had gathered them in the palace, they 
brought the ministers over to the fortress of Sts. Peter ancl Paul, 
The Bolsheviki had really obtained control then. They had this big 
program — land, peace, and bread for everybody — and they brought 
over all the troops in Petrograd, the soldiers that were stationed 
there, to help them. Of course it was really started by the workmen 
of the factories, and they had managed to convert the soldiers gar- 
risoned in Petrograd to their ideals, with this platform. 

Maj. Humes. Now, what was that platform? 

Mr. SstiTH. Land, peace, and bread. Peace with German}', land 
for everybody — the peasants — and bread. I do not think that any oi 
this has really been successful. It is quite evident. 

Senator Overman. Did they get bread and peace? 

Mr. Smith. They haven't much bread. They give bread to those 
that work. Those that were against them they did not permit to 
have bread. 

Senator OvEiorAX. Did they divide up the land among the people? 

Mr. Smith. They did not exactly divide it, or at least there was nc 
special plan of division. They simply took it. If a man next dooi 
had any more land than they had, they would simply take it. There 
was constant strife, as far as I could determine. And as soon as one 
got a little more land than his neighbors, he was declared to be bour- 

Senator Wolcott. It went up and down all the time? 

Mr. Smith. Yes; constantly. 

Senator Wolcott. If a man got up, the penalty was that he had to 
go down again? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 

The food conditions were getting terrible in Petrograd. especially 
in February, 1918. In addition to that, the Germans were within 
50 miles of the city. No one could tell whether they could get up 
there or not. Contradictory reports were printed in the newspapers. 


In fact the Bolsheviki themselves did not know. They were com- 
ing so near that people were getting out of town. A German 
commission took real control of the city. The troops, of course, 
neA'er entered, as is well known. At the time Mr. Treadwell, Mr. 
Brown, ]\Ir. Stephens, ]Mr. Welsh, and seveial others, the last Ameri- 
cans in Petrograd, it was said, evacuated on March 19, ]\Ir. Treadwell 
Went to the bureau where they are supposed to get passports 

Senator Wolcott. That was when ? 

Mr. Smith. March 19. 1918. He was unable to make himself 
understood in English or Eussian. The clerk spoke only German. 
They got on the train, and in the station the train was held there for 
some time. The usual thing is for the commissar of railroads to 
come through and collect the passports. The commissar came 
through and he looked into the apartment in which these men were, 
and he said in broken English, " Well, boys, are you going to take a 
little trip ? " This man was named Shatoff. He was known by ilr. 
Brown. He was a Jew from the East Side of New York. 

Senator Nelson. What was his other name ? 

Mr. Smith. That is the only name I know. 

Senator Nelson. What was his official position ? 

Mr. Smith. The commissar of the Nicolai Kailroad — ^the chief 

Senator Nelsox. He was a Hebrew from the East Side of New 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. 

Senator Wolcott. As the commissar of that railroad, what were 
his duties? Was he what we call a superintendent of the railroad? 

Mr. Smith. No; he was supposedly the Government control officer 
appointed for the railroad. He had no knowledge of the technique 
of the railroad, or anything of that sort. It was up to him to con- 
trol more or less the operation of the railroad. 

Senator Wolcott. Was it a large railroad system, or just a little 
short line? 

Mr. Smith. It is the line between Moscow and Petrograd. 

Senator Wolcott. A very important line, is it? 

Mv. Smith. It is the best operated line in the country at this 
present time. 

Senator Steelixg. What had this man's business been in New 

Mr. Smith. I do not know what he did. We did not get any per- 
sonal history from him. Mr. Brown can tell you if you get in 
touch with him. 

Senator Nelson. Could he talk English? 

Mr. Smith. Perfectly. 

Senator Overman. Continue with what you were about to say when 
you were interrupted. 

Mr. Smith. He collected the passports, and went through the train, 
and later came back and said, " Well, boys, I am afraid you will have to 
stay in Berlin to-night ; you can not go over to Brooklyn to-night.'' I 
said, " What is the matter " ? He said, " There are only about five or 
six passports of the people on the train that are in order." That was 
his announcement at that time. We were moved partly out in tiie 
yard, and held up for a long time, but finally tlie train did actually 


go through. That was a little incident that I wanted to bring in. 
I have noticed several inquiries here before as to whether Jews are in 
control of the Government, or in the government. That is the only 
incident I directly know of. 

Senator Overman. Did you see any other East-side men over there? 

Mr. Smith. I saw no other men from New York, or from America, 
myself. I have heard many stories, but I do not remember them. I 
have heard plenty of stories, and I have seen plenty of Jews in tli£ 
government. The man that arrested us on December 26, 1917, the 
man in command of the party, was a red-headed Jew, a Russian Jew. 

Maj. Humes. You say arrested. Do you mean at the time they 
undertook to take over, or did take over, the National City Bank ? 

Mr. Smith. Yes ; when they took over all the banks. 

Senator Nelson. Did they take over your bank? 

Mr. Smith. They did not take it over in the way they did the 
others. On the morning when they were to take over all the banks, 
they sent a squad of soldiers down, and the chap in command who 
entered the bank said we were all arrested, that the bank was arrested 
and belonged to the people. The manager and the assistants con- 
ducted negotiations witli this man who was sent down there, and got 
him so confused that he did not know just what his orders were, and 
we telephoned quite a lot. Finally we succeeded in getting him tO' 
take the manager and the secretary to the State bank of Russia to 
see the chief commissar of finances, and the man in charge up there 
took them under arrest. They went up to the State bank. 

Senator Oveeman. Did this fellow speak English? 

Mr. Smith. No : not this one that came in. He was quite Russian.. 
They went up to the State bank and wished to enter the offices of the 
chief commissar up there. There was a big line of people waiting,. 
and they started to go in ahead of the line, and the people all ex- 
claimed, " No; go down at the end of line." They said, " We are ar- 
rested." They said, " That does not make anj^ difference ; go down 
to the end of the line." 

They finally saw this chief commissar, and after consideiable nego- 
tiations, we arranged that they should not put a commissar, that is a 
special commissar, in charge of our bank ; that we would be permitted 
to go on revising our boeks and getting them in order, and taking 
care of our clients, under certain provisions. 

After five days they withdrew the guards. Our only commissar 
was the chief commissar of the State bank at Petrograd. Of course, 
he was not in the bank, nor did he directly control us. We agreed to 
abide by their decrees, that is, in the matter of paying out certain 
sums of money. It was not only our own best policy, but it fitted 
Fery well, under the circumstances, to agree to do that. 

Senator Overman. How much did they let you pay? 
Mr. Smith. They allowed us to pay 150 rubles a week to Russians 
and foreigners, with the exception of Americans. Tliere was no 
special exemption, but we were allowed to pay 500 rubles a day. 
Senator Overman. How much did they tax you? 
Mr. Smith. They did not tax us anything. 
Senator Steeling. That meant to pay out on deposits ? 
Mr. Smith. Yes; the depositors could draw that quantity of 
money each day; and as I said, they withdrew the soldiers, and we 
were never bothered with them again in the bank. 


Senator Sterlixg. AVhat reason was given for restricting the pay- 
ments out on deposits? 

Mr. Sjiith. Lack of currency ; and at the same time, they had not 
settled on the policy as to just what they were going to do. They 
wanted to see that nobody drew out a large amount of money and 
used it for counter-revolutionary purposes to hurt the government, 
which ^^■as a very good reason. The currency stringency had existed 
for a long time before that. 

Maj. HuiiES. Did you have any way to pay out money except by 
currency ? 

My. Sjiith. We could issue a check on the State Bank, and then 
it was up to the depositor to receive that check and try to get tlie 

Maj. Humes. Was there any specie passing current at that time? 

]Mr. Smith. Nothing at all. 

Maj. Humes. Was it ever possible for anybody to get specie instead 
of paper money? 

Mr. S:mith. The current rate, when I first came to Russia, was 
10 rubles for 1 gold ruble. Of course, there were no gold rubles, but 
5 or 10 rubles in gold amounted to 50 or 100 rubles in paper. 

Senator Sterling. Is that true now ? 

Mr. Smith. With gold? 

Senator Sterling. Yes. 

]Mr. S^MiTH. Yes, sir. 

Senator Sterling. There is a very great scarcity ? 

Mr. SiiiTH. \^erv great : yes, indeed. I did not see any gold in 
Russia in a great many days. 

Another vei'v interesting thing was what they called the revision 
of the safes and safe deposit vaults. The way they acted is rather 
amusing. The Bolsheviks declared that all the property which was 
in the vaults of the banks — that is, the safe-deposit vaults — should be 
confiscated; that is, all the jDroperty, such as gold and silver, and 
things of value of that sort. 

Maj. Humes. Securities? 

Mr. Smith. Securities were exempt. Only gold and silver; and. 
of course, coins. It was necessary, however, for everybody to ap- 
pear there, who had a safe, and open it in^heir presence, and they 
would examine everything in it, and take away what they felt they 
were going to confiscate, giving a statenient showing that they had 
taken it, but no promise to pay or return it. It was a rather 
touching sight. Fortunately we had no gold or anything of value 
in these safes. We had securities, that was all, and they could not 
confiscate them. 

Senator Nelson. Did they levy any tribute in any form on your 

Mr. Smith. Never. 

Senator Overman. On the other banks, did they? 

Mr. Smith. They did not levy any tribute on the other banks. 
They nationalized them. 

Senator Nelson. That is, they took possession of them and ran 
them themselves? 

Mr. Smith. Yes, they ran them to a certain extent. 


Maj. Humes. Did they subsequently take possession of your bank? 

Mr. Smith. No, they did not take possession of it. They told us to 
evacuate our bank. We were in Vologda at that time. We were 
forced to evacuate from Petrograd and go to Vologda. 

Maj.. Humes. Did you take the bank with you? 

Mr. Smith. We took the bank to Vologda. 

Maj. Humes. Was the bank afterwards taken over, too — the Peo- 
ple's Bank? 

Mr. Smith. Never. 

Maj. Humes. What is the state of the bank now? 

Mr. Smith. It is just closed. 

Senator Nelson. You took it over to Vologda? 

Mr. Smith. We moved out to Vologda, because of the food crisis 
and the imminence of a German invasion. We really never believed 
the Germans were coming into Petrograd, because we could not see 
how they would dare do it. Further than that, they did not have the 
force to run the city; it was too enormous a task, and it would be 
• no advantage to them to have the city, except for political purposes 
for their own people, to say that they had captured Petrograd. 

Maj. Humes. What was the extent of your deposits when you 
closed the bank, approximately? 

Mr. Smith. The deposits would amount to, including valuables — 
you mean securities and so on ? 

Maj. Humes. Yes. 

Mr. Smith. About 300,000,000 rubles. 

Senator Overmax. Was there a reign of terrorism while you were 

Mr. Smith. The onl}^ teiTorism 1 could testify to was the searches. 
Everybody was in constant fear of search. 

Maj. Humes. They were in fear of search. Were they actually 
searched ? 

Mr. Smith. Yes; plentj' of them. I was awakened one morning 
about 4 o'clock by a loud pounding on the door, and, of course, 
the rumor had gone around that they were going to make searches; 
that was in Vologda in July, 1918. 

Senator Nelson. After you moved your bank there? 

Mr. Smith. Yes ; this was where I was living. I heard this pound- 
ing on the door, and went over to the curtain and looked out to. see 
what it was, and I saw another Jew with three soldiers — armed sol- 
diers — pounding on the door of the upper part of the house. There 
is a stairway leading to the second story, something like a Washing- 
ton flat. Finally they were admitted, and we heard all kinds of 
rumblings and poundings upstairs. In the course of an hour or two 
they went away. The3' had taken aAvay all supplies of provisions. 
They did not search the lower part of the house. In the lower 
part lived the president of the local soviet of the Bolsheviki. That 
was probably the reason. But similar searches went on that night. 
I know of 20 actual searches. There may have been a great deal more 
that same night. They went across the street and searched, and took 
60,000 rubles away from a man, and all his silverware. 

Senator Sterling. Were the searches that were made searches for 
money and valuables? 
85723—19 17 


Mr. Sjiith. Principally for food, but they took anything they 
could find. It was the commission against counter-revolution, specu- 
lation, sabotage, etcetera, etcetera. 

Senator Xelson. Did they take possession of buildings? 

Mr. Smith. Yes : they requisitioned buildings wherever necessary. 

Senator Xelson. And they requisitioned private houses? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And turned the people out? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. xVnd put their own people in? 

Mr. Smith. Yes; that brings out a very interesting fact in rela- 
tion to the schools in Russia. Of course, it was in the summer time 
then, and the schools were not running, and there was no real neces- 
sity for keeping those buildings empty. They turned most of them 
in Vologda into barracks for the soldiers, and I heard that they had 
not decided whether they were going to open those schools or not in 
the fall. We left on the 5th of August, and we do not know what 
happened later, but everybody seemed to believe that the schools 
were really at an end. 

Maj. Humes. You went from Vologda to Moscow? 

Mr. Sjiitii. From Vologda to Moscow. "We arrived there at mid- 
night. Vologda was the first city we had been in where there had 
been seeming peace, where we did not hear constant shooting of 
machine guns every night. There would be an occasional shot doTvn 
near the station where a lot of hooligans, as they called them, con- 

Senator Nelson. That is on a branch of the Siberian Eailroad, is 
it not? 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. When we got to Moscow the first exclama- 
tion we made was, " We are back home again." There was constant 
shooting of machine guns, and everything. 

We stayed in the Moscow station for several days. We had heard 
that the English and French had all been arrested, but the Americans 
had not been touched ; but it was rumored that they might be, and we 
felt we would be on the safe side if we did not go into the city, so we 
arranged to get a cottage about 30 miles outside of Moscow, where all 
the boys went — the boys on the staff. There were some 20 people 
in the party at that time, who lived in this empty cottage. We had 
no beds or furniture of any sort, but slept on the boards. 

Senator Steeling. Speaking of the schools, if I may call your at- 
tention to them again, are you acquainted with the conduct of the 
schools prior to the time they were closed there ? 

Mr. Smith. Not very familiarly; no. 

Senator Steeling. What kind of schools were they that were 
closed, common schools, graded schools, or higher educational schools. 

Mr. Smith. The schools in Vologda which were occupied by the 
soldiery were of all sorts. There were children's schools for children 
of 8, 10, and 12 years of age, and then there were schools for young 
men and women, more or less equivalent to our high schools. But 
it is not significant that the schools were closed, because it was in 
the summer time, in vacation time, and in Vologda the conditions 
were not as bad as they were in Petrograd or Moscow, by any means- 


Many of the old local authorities seemed to be holding high positions 

Senator Nelson. But the significant thing was that tliey were oc- 
cupied by the soldiers? 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir; but that can be very avcU explained by the 
IlecessitJ^ They had soldiers stationed there, and these buildings 
were empty, and not being used for many months. What I wish to 
point out is that it was the general opinion in the city, of the people 
I talked with, that the schools would not be reopened. The school- 
teachers who taught in these schools were tryinf>- to &v.A out whr''hor 
they would be opened, and whether they would bo able to secure their 
positions back again, and they never met with any actual assurance. 

Senator Steeling. Wei'e these Russian schools, so far as you know, 
open to all classes? 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. 

Senator Sterling. There was no discrimination? 

Mr. Smith. There was no discrimination after the revolution. 

Senator Steeling. Do you Iniow as to whether prior to the revolu- 
tion there was discrimination or not? 

Mr. Smith. I do not know definitely, but I understand there was 
discrimination against certain classes. 

Maj. Humes. What did you find in Moscow with reference to a^iy 
terrorism or machine-grm firing? 

Mr. Smith. The machine-gun firing and the rifle shooting that you 
heard there at that time, in August, 1918, you could not trace to am^ 
definite contest bet^.veen different parties. It was more or less out- 
breaks in one quarter or another, private quarrels, the result possibly 
of forced searches where people resisted. There was no orcler, and 
no real police which was effective. Thej' had police to a certain 
extent, thej? had militia, but you could not call it an orderly city such 
as we have here. 

That brings up another interesting thing, if you would like to 
hear about it. A man whom I knew quite well in Petrograd was 
forced, in order to earn money to get food, to join the Bolshevik 
searching parties, and in that way he made his living. These parties 
were promised three-quarters of the sjooils when they would make 
searches for provisions, valuables, or whatever had been declared 
matter for confiscation by the government. These parties would re- 
ceive three quarters of the spoils. The other quarter supposedly went 
to the city; I do not know Avhere it went. At any rate, this chap was 
in one of these parties, and was able to make a livelihood, and I guess 
made some money out of it. When we came back to Petrograd this 
last time, we inquired for him and found that he had ))ee!i killed. 
We wanted to know how it happened — why he had been killed. He 
was out searching one night and they met another searching party in 
the same house, and they came to blows, and he was killed. 

Maj. Humes. How much loot does a man have to acquire before he 
becomes part of the bourgeois ? 

Mr. Smith. I do not know. The only time that I had special ref- 
erence to that was in the case of the peasants. We were brought in 
touch with that when we were in this place outside of Moscow. 
There was a peasant there who in former days just had his little 
cottage and a small piece of land, and he had grown rich and sue- 


cessful, and the other peasants were very jealous of him, and thej 
insisted that he was a bourgeois. That is a Russian expression. 

Maj. Httjies. You sa.j_ he had become rich. What was he worth? 
What do you mean by rich, as riches go in Russia at this time ? 

Mr. Smith. Well, it is very hard to tell. You can not get statistics 
of any sort in Russia. The man may have had 50,000 rubles right 
in his baclv yard under the earth ; but he had food, that was the main 
thing, and he was able to buy shoes and clothing. That indicated to 
his neighbors that he was wealthy. 

Maj. HuJiEs. Then a man who had plenty to eat, plenty of food 
and clothing, was looked upon as wealthy, and he was in the bour- 
geois class that was to be discriminated against ? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 

Senator Wolcott. The possession of what we call necessaries here 
was an evidence to them of riches ? 

]Mr. S^riTH. Yes. indeed; inasmuch as a pair of shoes cost 400 
rubles, or $200 under the old exchange value. 

Senator Wolcott. Was that price a post-revolutionary price? 

Mr. Smith. It is the price that was current when I left Russia, 
400 rubles in Moscow for a pair of shoes. 

Senator Wolcott. Was that after there had been a great flood of 
this printing-press money? 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. It was due to the flood of money, and at 
the same time it was the constant shortage of shoes. There were no 
shoes coming in. The people who had a few stocks were selling out 
at enormous prices ; but they were constantly getting down to the zero 
IDoint where there is nothing left. 

I have heard in these questionings before us some question of the 
crop conditions. I know from talking to peasants and people in 
Vologda that they did not plan to plant any more in their own 
acreage than was sufficient for themselves, because they knew it «'(iuld 
be confiscated. 

Senator Nelson. Is that a good farming country around Vologda? 

!Mr. Smith. It is a dairy country — and vegetables. 

Senator Nelson. Is it a prairie country or timber country? 

^Ir. Smith. A timber country. There are a great many places 
that are quite open and taken care of under cultivation. That Avas 
especially true in sections where the Bolsheviki were not in complete 
control. When we went to Moscow, and came again from ^loscow 
to Petrograd — when we went from Moscow over to Vologda and then 
back again to Petrograd — I noticed that the lands all along the rail- 
road were under cultivation, and wheat and rye flourishing, big 
crops, and I was very much surprised imtil I questioned some Rus- 
sians about it, and I was told that these were all Bolshevik farms. 
They were close to the railroad, which, of course, was under the 
control of the Bolshevik military ofEcers in the different villages 
along the way. and they saw that the land' was tilled and the crops 
raised. I suppose there was some understanding with the farmers 
whereby they would pay for any surplus, or see that they should be 
properly paid. 

]Maj. Humes. They made a point of cultivating the land along the 
line of the railroad ? 


Mr. Smith. That is all I could see, of course, and I wondered why- 
it should be under cultivation, knowing the peasants were disinclined 
to raise crops. Of course, that is a very high section of the country,, 
and is not a wheat country, and that does not indicate the conditions 
in the rest of Russia. 

Maj. Humes. Have you any idea how much gold and silver and 
currency was confiscated from the banks or from individuals? 

Mr. Smith. No figures were published. I can tell you only from 

Maj. Humes. Well, in banking circles, among the people that had 
some idea as to how much money there was — how much currency 
there was for business — can you give us some estimate of probably 
how much there was? 

Mr. Smith. There was a train which took these valuables to the 
State Bank of Petrograd, that is the head office of the State Bank 
of all Russia — a train took the valuables, including gold, silver, 'and 
securities, to Nijni Novgorod — and it was said that this train carried 
74,000,000,000 rubles' worth of treasure. A great deal of that, of 
course, was stocks and bonds, and I can not tell the proportion of 
gold or silver or valuable coins of any sort in what was on the train, 
nor can I tell 

Senator Nelson. Do you know the condition about that time of the 
Russian State Bank, how much gold reserves it had, and how much 
paper currency it had outstanding? 

Mr. Smith. I can not remember. I had the figures in Russia. 

Senator Nelson. Well, approximately. 

Mr. Smith. I could not tell you. 

Senator Nelson. My recollection is that they were supposed to 
have had the equivalent of $400,000,000 in gold, and I have no idea 
how much paper currency. But Avhatever they had was taken away 
to Nijni Novgorod ? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. That was the time they expected the Germans 
in Petrograd. 

Senator Nelson. Do you know what became of it after it got to 
Nijni Novgorod? 

Mr. Smith. No, I do not. 

Senator Nelson. Did they take everything from the bank? 

Mr. Smith. They did not take everything ; that is, it has not' been 
proven that they took everything. 

Senator Nelson. But they took the gold? 

Mr. Smith. That is what I understand. There may be some left 
still in the bank. They may not have been able to get everything 
on the train. 

Senator Nelson. Were you in the country when the treaty of 
Brest-Litovsk was entered into? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Is it not your understanding that the Germans 
got a good deal of gold at that time? 

Mr. Smith. It was a part of the treaty that they should receive a 
certain indemnity. 

Senator Nelson. Yes; $200,000,000 of gold, it seems to me. 

Mr. Smith. Something like that. It is my understanding that a 
great'deal of that was sent over to Germany." 


Senator Nelson. I remember it because under the terms of the 
armistice that treaty of Brest-Litovsk was canceled, and they were 
ordered to return that gold. Do you recall that? 

Mr. Smith. Yes, that is true. 

Senator Nelson. Did you ever come across either Lenine or 
Trotsky or any of their followers? 

Mr. Smith. Well, I came into frequent contact with their fol- 
lowers, but I never came in contact with Lenine or Trotsky. 

Senator Nelson. Did you ever see men there who had been over 
here in America? 

jNIr. Smith. That was the only instance, that I have cited. 

Senator Nelson. Who were connected with their government — 
government officials? 

Mr. Smith. You mean American Government officials? 

Senator Nelson. No, officials of this Bolshevik government? Did 
you see such men who had been over here ? 

Mr. Smith. That is the only case that I know of, the one that I 
mentioned of Mr. Shatoff. 

Senator Nelson. That railroad commissar? 

Mr; Smith. I did not see that, but I have it from the testimony 
of men upon whom I can rely. 

Senator Nelson. And he was from the East Side of New York? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. You graduate pretty good commissars there, do 
you not? 

Mr. Smith. I know that on the day that I went to Russia, in May, 
there were 300 Russians, some of them going back to their country. 

Senator Nelson. From this country? 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir; some of them Jews, but most of them real 

Senator Steeling. That was in May, 1917? 

Mr. S.^riTH. May. 1917 ; yes, sir. There was a very interesting and 
nmusir.g incident that took place. One of these fellows was parading 
up around the first-elass cabins, on the promenade deck, and he wiis 
politely requested by one of the junior officers to go on his own deck 
in his own class. He said, "No, 1 am a free man. Russia is free, 
and I can go anywhere on this ship." 

Senator Sitieling. Did any of those men going back to Russia in- 
dicate an intention to take part in a counter-revolution, or a Bolshevik 
revolution, against the revolution of March, 1917? 

Jlr. Sjiith. I did not come in contact with any of them. They 
were in the steerage class, and they were talking mostly in Russian 
or some foreign language that at that time I did not understand. 

Senator Nelson. Did you come across Kerensky? 

Mr. S311TH. I have seen him, but I never talked with him. 

Senator Nelson. Were you in any other place in Russia other than 
those places you have mentioned? 

Mr. Smith. Only three places. 

Senator Nelson. Petrograd, Vologda, and Moscow? 

Mr. Smith. Petrograd, Vologda, and Moscow; yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. Novgorod? 

Mr. S:mith. Never. 


Senator Sterling. Where were you at the time the Duma was in 
session, at the time the revolution broke out? 

Mr. Smith. Petrograd. 

Senator Sterling. When the Tsar was deposed? 

Mr. Smith. When the Tsar was deposed ? 

Senator Steeling. Yes. 

Mr. Smith. I was m America. 

Senator Sterling. You were in America then ? 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. I thought you meant the dissolving of the 
Duma by the Bolsheviki. 

Senator Steeling. No. 

Senator Nelson. The Duma was extinguished by the Kerensky 

Mr. Smith. No. 

Senator Nelson. Yes, it was frozen out by that government. 

Mr. Smith. That is news to me. 

Senator Overman. Were any of the better class of people, the 
bourgeois, holding any offices? 

Mr. Smith. I do not know of any in the government proper. I 
know that a great many of the factory owners and the former direc- 
tors of the banks were working with the Bolsheviki, but I do not 
know of any in the government. 

Senator Overman. Was that for their protection, do you think ? 

Mr. Smith. For protection, and from a desire to save their own 
properties ; to do what they could by their presence to guide the oper- 
ation of the factory, for example, properly. 

Senator Overman. They pretended sympathy with the Bolshevik 

Mr. Smith. I do not know how strongly they professed themselves 
in favor of the Bolsheviki movement. I think it was more or less a 
compromise on the part of both. The Bolsheviki wanted somebody 
there who understood the business, and on the man's part, he wanted 
to look after his interests as well as he could. He could not get out 
of the countrj^, and his family would starve to death if he refused, 
so the best thing for him to do was to stay in the concern and 
operate it. 

Senator Overman. Did many of them get out? 

Mr. Smith. A great many of them did. Thirty-six thousand Rus- 
sians were supposed to be in Sweden. 

Senator Nelson. When you left, had things gotten settled in Fin- 

Mr. Smith. In Finland everything seemed to be quite orderly. It 
wa,s a complete contrast to Russia. 

Senator Nelson. Had the Germans left Finland at that time? 

Mr. Smith. No, they had not. We saw Germans marching; and 
in every important station — Viborg, for example — we saw German 
officers sitting in the waiting rooms. 

Senator Nelson. Did you have much difficulty getting out of 
Russia ? 

Mr. Sbiith. No difficulty. We had difficulty getting across Russia. 

Senator Nelson. That is what I meant. 

Mi . Smith. Yes. I did not know what you meant. 

Senator Nelson. That is, across the border into Finland. 


Mr. SiriTH. Yes, sir. 

Senator Ovehmax. Did }^ou have to bribe the officers to get through? 

Mr. Smith. We paid them — I do not knoAA- the exact figures. Mr. 
Huntington, I think, can tell you. We paid the commandant some 
nionejr to carry the luggage about 100 feet across the border. Dr. 
Huntington can confirm the exact amoimt. 

Senator Xelson. Did you have to pay anything for moving the 
train ? 

Mr. Smith. Yes ; we had to pay the cost of that. 

Senator Nelsox. I mean, did they stop at stations and want extra 
pay from you? 

Mr. Smith. No; not that I know of. If anything like that was 
done it was not known generally among the occupants of the train. 

Senator Steelixg. When you had to pay the cost of the train, that 
was something beyond the usual fare, was it not? 

Mr. Smith. I do not know how it worked out, but I do not think 
we were cheated in any way on that. We got a special train and 
pretty quick service all the way through. They put a dining car on 
the train, and were very attentive. This was for the American con- 
suls, the American colonj' and the Italian mission. 

Senator Wolcott. Were you acquainted with anyone in Russia 
who seemed to be very intimate with the Bolsheviki leaders, and who 
is now in this country again enlightening the people here about Rus- 
sian conditions? 

Mr. Smith. Xo; I am not. 

Senator Nelson. What did you do with the assets of your bank 
=^n you left? Did you leave them in Russia, or take them along? 

ivlr. Smith. In Russia. 

Senator Nelson. You left them there? 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. -Whom did you leave them in charge of? 

Mr. Smith. May I decline to answer that question publicly? 

Senator Nelson. Yes; I have no objection. 

Senator Oveejiax. Were there many people on the streets during 
the time you were there, walking up and down the streets? 

*>r. Smith. In the early days there were. The last time that I 
was m Petrograd, the streets were quite empty. 

Senator O^eejniax . Were there any ladies on the streets ? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 

Senator Oveejian. What was the Bolsheviki treatment of the 
ladies ? 

Mr. Smith. I have never seen any cases of brutality or persecution, 
but the conditions were such that many women of the better class 
were forced to dig potatoes in the field and sell newspapere on the 
streets, and do really demeaning work for a woman. 

Senator Oveeman. In order to get something to live on? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 


(The witness was sworn by the chairman.) 

Senator Oveeman. Where are you from, Mr. Welsh ? 

Mr. Welsh. New York City, I should say now. 


Senator Overman. How long have you been in this country ? 

Mr. Welsh. Twenty-seven years. 

Senator Overman. "When did you leave Eussia? 

Mr. Welsh. I left Russia at the same time as Mr. Smith, the 1st 
of September last. 

Senator Overman. How long were you in Russia ? 

Mr. Welsh. Just lacking a month of 2 years. 

Senator Overman. What was your office over there? 

Mr. Welsh. I was in the National City Bank. 

Maj. Humes. In what capacity? 

Mr. Welsh. As a junior officer; subaccountant. 

Maj. Humes. Mr. Welsh, will you just state in your own way your 
observation of conditions from the time you reached Russia, during 
the revolution, and the conditions as they existed in Russia during 
that time, to the time of your departure? 

Mr. Welsh. We arrived in Russia in October, 1916, which was 
several months before the March revolution, the first revolution. 
After we had been thei-e some time, a month or so, and learned a 
little Russian, you could hear an undertone of protest against the 
Czar, and especially against Razputin and the Czarina. The revolu- 
tion was looked for at the end of the war, when the soldiers returned, 
but came, though not as a surprise, yet earlier than people had ex- 

The first days of the Russian revolution were perfectly wonderful. 
Madame Breshkovskaya yesterday spoke of the wonderful spirit of 
everyone at that time. I can confirm that ; that the people,' from the 
aristocracy right straight through to the soldiers on the streets, 
showed a wonderful feeling of brotherhood which, of course, was 
expected to be capitalized for the welfare of Russia, but which seems 
to have been perverted by the Bolsheviks. 

Senator Nelson., Were you there when Razputin was killed? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. One question that has been asked and wliich I 
noted was this : What class of people came to Russia from America 
after the first revolution? I met most of the people that came into 
the bank, and met a great many of the Russians wlio came from New 
York to Russia, and in almost every instance they had been in this 
country from 9 to 10 years, from the time of the first Russian revolu- 
tion in 1905 until this second revolution. This was not an unusual 
statement by many of them, and it was given by one in particular. 
When I asked him why he came back, he said, " Because I have come 
back to a free country." He asked me, " Do you think America is a 
free country?" I said, "I know it is." "Well," he said, "do you 
know you can not say anything you want or do anything there you 
want to?" I said, " No, not in time of war." 

(At 4.55 o'clock p. m., the subcommittee adjourned, to meet to- 
morrow, Saturday, February 15, 1919, at 10.30 o'clock a. m.) 



United States Senate, 


Washington, D. C. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10.30 o'clock 
a. m., in room 226, Senate Office Building, Senator Lee S. Overman 

Present: Senators Overman (chairman), King, Wolcott, Nelson, 
and Sterling. 

Senator Overman. The committee will come to order. 


Maj. HrMES. Mr. Welsh, -wiil you take up 3'our statement where 
you left off last night and tell us the concutions as you saw them 
and found them? 

Mr. Welsh. I think I was relating about the influx of the Eussians 
from America just after the revolution, and of the fact that as they 
came into the bank to bring in their American dollars for exchange, 
and to make change, it was not unusual at all to have them interro- 
gate you and &a.y, " What kind of a country do you think you have 
got over there in America? I suppose you think you have got 
freedom. Do you suppose that a person can. like they can in Russia, 
go out and say anything that he wants to with perfect freedom of 
speech?" I said, "No, the United States is at war, and every loyal 
American ought to keep his mouth shut." Many showed very strong 
antagonism to the United States. I made it a point to ask as many as 
possible how long they had been there. Most of them had come into 
the United States in 1905 and had remained in the United States 
fl or 10 years. In almost every case none of them had applied for 
or taken out any citizenship papers, and they came back there con- 
demning the United States. 

Senator Nelson. And they were leaving the United States and 
coming back to Russia because there was no libertv in the United 
States ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. Because there was no liberty in the United 

Senator Nelson. They were coming back to Russian freedom? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes, they were coming back to Russian freedom. Of 
K'Ourse, Russian freedom to them is freedom, because they are now on 
top. Many of them are Bolshevik leaders, like Shatoff. who has been 

.■spoken of. 
^ 267 


Senator Xelson. But freedom to them meant the right to exploit 
everytliing and everybody else but themselves. 

Mr. Welsh. Yes, sir. 

Senator Oveejiax. To take what they wanted, do what they 
pleased, and shoot down whomsoever they pleased, if necessary. 

Mr. Welsh. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelsok. Were they well supplied with money? 

Mr. Welsh. No, not necessarily. They were well clothed, as com- 
pared with the Russians, because a laboring man in this countiy 
would be a bourgeois in Russia. 

Senator Wolcott. You say a laboring man in this country would 
be a bourgeois over there? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes, according to Russian standards. 

Senator Wolcott. What makes him a bourgeois? Suppose he is 
not a house owner, but he does own household property, has got a 
piano and has a home and comfortable bedding, beds, bureaus and 
such things — a home nicely furnished — would that constitute him a 
bourgeois in Russia ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Wolcott. Even though he does not own his own home I 

Mr. Welsh. Not only that, but if a man is well dressed and wear> 
a white collar. 

Senator Wolcott. He is a bourgeois ? 

Mr. Welsh. To the average hooligan, as they call the Bolshevik 
supporters, who are the fough necks there, every man that wears a 
white collar, or a woman that wears a hat, is a bourgeois. 

Senator Nelson. The Russian worlanan wears a blouse, does he 

Mr. Welsh. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelsox. With a kind of belt around it? 

Senator Oveemax. A woman who wears a hat is in the bourgeois 
class ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. It was not uncommon at all to hear conversa- 
tions in the street cars of the peasant women, or working women, 
addressing women who had on hats, saying, " You people who 
wear hats, you think so-and-so," and then going on in a tirade against 
them ; but the distinction was, " You women who wear hats." 

Senator Wolcott. What I am trying to get at is this. When Ave 
speak of the bourgeoisie, many people have the idea that they are the 
class referred to in this country as the well to do, the people who have 
laid up some substance, saved a little something, and have got a little, 
bit invested, but that is not the case, from what you say now. It 
simply means a person who is enabled to live in comfortable, decent 
surroundings, without necessarily owning any property other than 
household goods, comfortable household equipment and so on. Now. 
that is the bourgeois, is it, that kind of person? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes, sir. 

Senator Wolcott. In other words, the typical laboring man would 
be a bourgeois in Russia ? 

Mr. Welsh. The laboring man in this country, as he lives, with 
what he owns and the conditions of his life, that condition of life put 
into Russia would make him a bourgeois? 


'Senator Wolcott. And would mark him as a person to inctir the 
enmity of this ruling crowd there? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes, of the Bolsheviks. 

Senator Wolcott. And they would take away what he had ^ 

Mr. Welsh. They might take it away. But what surprises me is 
this. There are a great many supposed Bolsheviks in this country, 
who, if they were to step on Russian soil, would be immediately 
taken as bourgeoisie, and before they had been there very long would 
be considered counter revolutionists? 

Senator Wolcott. They would soon find themselves in the class 
marked for starvation? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes ; they would be in that class. 

Senator Nelson. Did these Americans that came over to Russia — 
I mean these East Side fellows that came over, that you have de- 
scribed — actively enter the ranks of the Bolshevik crowd ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And become officials among them? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. There were some — not many, but there were 
some — real Russians ; and what I mean by real Russians is Russian- 
born, and not Russian Jews. 

Senator Nelson. You mean Slavs? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes ; people who had been really political exiles, who 
came over in the hope, as Madam Breshkovskaya expressed it yester- 
day, that they now had realized their revolution. Those people are 
now in Russia, and if they have not starved, they are starving, be- 
cause they can not work with the Bolsheviks, and with the Bolsheviks 
there is no compromise ; j^ou are either with them or against them. 

Senator Nelson. There wei'e a few there that were real Russians, 
you say. What were the balance? Were they Russian Hebrews? 

Mr. Welsh. There were many, yes. 

Senator Nelson. Did the Hebrew element predominate among 

Mr. Welsh. I can not say it predominated, but it was very notice- 

Senator Nelson. They joined the Bolsheviki, did they not? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. They were not like the others that jon have de- 
scribed, that were disappointed? 

Mr. Welsh. No. It might be Avell to explain a little the general 
fact that most of the Bolshevik leaders are Jews, in order to avoid 
misunderstanding. In Russia it is well known that three-fourths of 
the Bolshevik leaders are Jewish. This fact does not prove, how- 
ever, that the Bolsheviks are pro-Jewish or that the Jews are pro- 
Bolshevik in Russia. In many cases it happens that decidedly the 
opposite is the case. The Bolsheviks claim to be first and last inter- 
nationalists and anticapitalistic. I know of several cases in which 
Avell-to-do Jews have been persecuted in quite the same way as the 
other Russian bourgeois. A Jewish factor}^ owner, whom I knew 
very well, was hounded for months by the Bolsheviks and spent most 
of his time away from his own home in the houses of his friends. 
He had iinallj' succeeded, however, in buying off the Bolsheviks. He 
recited to me the instance of a friend of his, a Jew, who was arrested 
by the Bolsheviks and held for 100,000 rubles. His wife, on the ad- 


vice of friends, protested that ^he could not pay that much. They 
told her to get Avhat she could, and she returned with 50,000 rubles. 
They then said that she had gotten that so easily she could go and 
get some more. She returned the second time with 10,000 rubles, 
which she paid over. She was then told if she wanted her husband 
she could have his body. 

Bolshevism can not be explained along racial line,-> alone. The 
Bolsheviks are made up of the very worst elements of many races. It 
is important, however, that Jews in this country should not favor 
Bolshevism because of any liberties or privileges .which they may 
think are being accorded to the Jews in Russia by the Bolsheviks. 
They should study the facts carefully and not be prejudiced by any 
racial feeling, or they are sure to bring the odium of Bolshevism 
unjustly to the door of the Jew. The best Jews in this country 
would do well to brand the Jewish Bolsheviks in Russia as anti- 
Jews, which they really are, for they bring nothing but discredit 
to the Jewish race. 

Senator Ovterjian. It was testified yesterday that they had search- 
ing parties that went into people's houses at all times of the day and 
all times of the night, and took food and everything they found. 
Were these people that went over from this country who were there, 
this crowd you described, in the searching parties, in order to maraud, 
raid, steal, and kill ? 

Mr. Welsh. No, the searching is done by the soldiers and people 
lower down. Tlieso people who come over from the United States, 
being intelligent, educated peojole, became naturally the leaders. 
As an instance of wlio might make up these searching parties, take 
this case: The sweetheart of our maid -nas the son of a Bolshevik 
commissar, though he himself was not a Bolshevik, and we had con- 
versations many times in our house. He had been working for the 
Trayolgolnik Rubber Company, there, which was shut down because 
they expected the Germans to come in. That is the largest rubber 
company, perhaps, in the world. There was no work. Although 
his father was a Bolshevik, he was not a Bolshevik, yet he joined in 
with these searching parties; for, as he said to nic, "If I do not do 
it, somebody else will, and I have to live." 

I have with me some coins that he sold to me that were taken in 
these searches. Some of his y^oung Red Guard friends who used to 
come to the house and have tea with my^self and the others would 
say, " Of course, we are working for the Bolsheviks, because we have 
got to live." But I remember in the month of June last, when every- 
one was anticipating the overthrow of the Bolsheviks, these same two 
were saying that the}'', too, expected their overthrow, and I asked, 
"Then what?" "Then we will have a constitutional government, 
perhaps the cadets, or social revolutionists, and we will work for 

I spoke on a Tuesday night in ]\Iay vrith this particular young boy, 
the sweetheart of the maid. On Thursdav morning at 5 o'clock I was 
awakened by soldiers coming into my bedroom and asking for my 
passport. They were polite and said. " Do you know Victor Stron- 
berg? " I said, " Yes." They said, "Who 'is he? " I said, "He is 
engaged to our maid." They said. " Have you seen him lately? " I 
said, " I saw him two or three nights ago." " Did you see him last 


night ? " I said, " No." " Did you see him the night before ? " " No." 
'■ That is all." They went out. 

I put on a bathrobe and went out into the kitchen, where woldiers 
were stationed. In the dining room they had my maid and another 
young Russian who had also been a soldier, but was not a Bolshevik. 
They were cross-examining them. I asked the Bolshevik commissar 
what it was all about. He said, " These things we do not talk about 
in public." 

They took the maid and the soldier off at 7 o'clock in the morning. 
They were held under arrest until 7 o'clock at night. They were 
brought before the commissar and the commissar said to the maid, 
"Do you know Victor Stronberg? " The maid answered, "Yes; I 
was engaged to marry him." The commissar said, " I simplj' want to 
tell you that he was shot last night." There was no reason given, 
and, as far as I know, even though the father of the boy was a Bol- 
shevik commissar, they had not been able to ascertain why he was 
shot. There were conjectures, but they did not give reasons. They 
did not need to. 

Senator Steeling. Have you reason to suppose that there were 
many such executions as that, summary executions without trial or 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. I want to put in here one statement. A person 
that comes out of Eussia and who has been out of Eussia one month 
is not in a position to state what is the condition in Eussia at the 
present time. You can tell what the trend of events has been. But 
for people who have come out of Eussia a year ago to stand wp and 
talk as authorities on Eussia is ridiculous. 

People might ask me if I personally knew of British or Americans 
who were persecuted while I was there. I left on the 1st of Sep- 
tember. My answer would be, no. The British were not allowed to 
leave; that is, the young British of military age were not allowed 
out of Russia. However, a young Englishman who was connected 
with our bank succeeded in escaping from Eussia one month later. 
TVe came out the week when the terrorism began, when Lenine was 
shot at and Uritsky was killed in Petrograd, and the next week 
came out the statement, " For every Bolshevik, 1,000 bourgeoisie."' 

Senator Sterling. What did that mean ? 

Mr. Welsh. That meant that they would stand up against the wall 
1,000 bourgeoisie for every Bolshevik that was shot. We, of course — ■ 
many of us that were leaving there — ^^said, " Why did the\' not get 
Lenine? We were sorry they missed him." The Englishman who 
came out a month later said, " I know you said that when yon came 
out, but we who remained were down on our Imees every night pray- 
ing God that they would not get him. knowing that if they did, they 
would go through with their threat and stand us up against the wall ; " 
and he stated that for 10 nights straight— every night for 10 nights 
straight — in Moscow they shot 150 boui'geoisie ; arrested them at 4 or 
5 o'clock in the morning and shot them before daybreak. He was a 
man that had won the Georgian Cross — the Russian Georgian Cross. 

Senator Sterling. What is that cross awarded for ? 

Mr. Welsh. For bravery at the front. He had been Avith one of 
the correspondents at the Galician front during the great advance 
and durino- the retreat. He liad been in Russia during all the revolu- 


tions, and, as he told me aftenviirds, "As you know, we got so that 
we did not mind the promiscuous shooting you heard every night 
going on, because tliey were holdups, usually, and soldiers shooting 
guns off in the air, but the thing that tsot on your nerves was this, 
that in the daytime you would see a group of 30 or 40 well-dressed 
people surrounded by Keel Guards walking through the streets, and 
then at 12 or 1 o'clock you heard the shots going " putt, putt, putt," 
knowing that for each shot some one was being stood up against the 
wall, without any question." He said that was the thing that un- 
nerved 3'ou. They not only stood them up against the wall, lint pub- 
lished their names in the papers: and if such papers could be gotten 
out of Russia you could get the names of the leading people who 
were shot. 

Xot only that, but they published the names of others that they 
held as hostages, saying these, too, would be shot if any more attempts 
were made on the lives of Bolshevik commissars. 

I have gotten away from your question, but I wanted to make the 
point that I could not say from what I had gone through personally 
that the Americans or foreigners were persecuted, because the Ameri- 
cans were fairly well treated: but this Englishman who came out 
one month later described a condition that was completely changed. 
He himself for five nights did not sleep in his own house, but had to 
sleep from place to place. At one time he heard a searching party 
come into the courtyard demanding to know were there any bourgeoi- 
sie there. He was on the top floor with a Swedish fi-iend of his, a 
young journalist and very poor, and the Russian doorkeeper down 
below said, " Xo, there is only one family of poor foreigners upstairs, 
who have nothing, so there is no need to look for them." But for five 
nights he himself did not sleep in his own house. 

Senator Nelson. Did you notice any activity of the Germans in 
connection with the Bolshevik forces? 

Mr. Welsh. As related yesterday, when we came to evacuate from 
Petrograd and applied for our permits, Consul Treadwell, who had 
come back to see the last of us Americans out — there were five or six 
of us, the manager of our bank and his English secretary, the Ameri- 
can correspondent, Graham Taylor, and myself — Consul Treadwell, 
who had come back from Vologda on what was then a perilous trip, 
to get us out, said that when he applied for the permit to get' out of 
Petrograd, they spoke only Gerjnan at the commission. 

Senator Xelson. "Were there German officers there — military offi- 
cers ? 

Mr. Welsh. There was a German commission from Germany in 
Petrograd at the time. The German war prisoners were at perfect 
liberty; and the thing that aroused your enmity was to see them 
walking about the streets in groups. And not only that, but the Ger- 
mans had sent in and reclothed them with the parade uniform that 
had been discarded by the old German army, and they would appear 
on the streets with 'fine scarlet red coats, with white braid, and blue 
coats, with yellow braid, parading up and down the streets of 

Senator Nelson. With the old German military uniform? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And they were unmolested? 


Mr. Welsh. Unmolested, speaking German on the streets of 

Senator Nelson. There seemed, then, according to that, to be an 
affiliation or sympathy between these German soldiers and the Bol- 
sheviki ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes, at that time. As I say, the embassies had evac- 
uated in February, and our bank and a nvimber of the other in- 
terests evacuated on the 9th of March, Mr. Treadwell engineering 
all of this, taking care of all of it ; and then he returned and came 
back with us, the few that I have spoken of that were left. 

We were in daily communication as to the progress of the Germans. 
As you know, they took Riga, and came on and took Eeval, and came 
on and took Narva, and came on and took Luga, and they were 
within four hours of Petrograd, and might have walked in at any 
time. There was no defense whatever. We, of course, were anx- 
ious to stay to the very last minute, but we did not wish to be caught. 
We were told by the neutral embassies that if we did not leave on 
the next day, which was the 20th of March, we would be caught by 
the Germans, so naturally we went out on the night of the 19th of 

Mr. Smith yesterday recited the incident of our train being stopped 
after we were three-quarters of an hour out of Petrograd, and Bill 
Shatoff, the commissar, putting his head through the door, saying, 
"Well, boys, you are taking a litle trip?" And we answered in 
American slang, " Yes, Bill, we are going down the line." " Well," 
he said, " I've got to look you over." So we gave him our passports, 
and he came back in about half an hour and said, " I am sorry, 
boys, but you have got to sleep on the Island to-night. You can't get 
over to Brooklyn; the subway ain't running." We asked, " What is 
the big idea ? " " Well," he said, " you can't run the Siberian express 
through to Vladivostok for four or five people, can you? Besides 
yourselves, there are only five or six people that have got passports 
to go on." " Well, what's to be done? " He said, " I don't see any- 
thing to do but to go back to Petrograd." 

That was most promising for us, just pulling out, and knowing 
that the German Government was already in Petrograd, and German- 
speaking people in charge of the department where we got our per- 
mits to leave Petrograd, to be told that there was nothing to do but 
to go back again. Brown knew Shatoff because he had seen him and 
been with him a little there in Petrograd, so he took it upon himself 
to take Bill Shatoff aside and see what could be done, and he said he 
would see what he could do. Shatoff came back in half an hour or so, 
makino- it about an hour that we were held up, and said, " Well, boys, 
it is all fixed up. You may run along now. Give my regards to 
Broadway." He was then the head commissar of the Nicolai Kail- 
road which is the chief railroad between Moscow and Petrograd, 
and also the Siberian line. 

Senator Nelson. He wanted to be seen, did he not ? 

Mr. Welsh. Well, he didn't mind a little side play. I think it 
can be verified — I do not know for sure, but he is something like 
the chief of police, or the chief of the military forces in Petrograd 
at the present time. 
85723—19 18 


Senator Steeling. Do you Icnow what his business had been before 
going to Eussia ? 

Mr. Welsh. I do not, but it could be verified easily enough. 

Senator Nelson. Did he live in America '? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes; otherwise he would not have known Brooklvn 
and the island so Avell. 

Senator Nelson. He had graduated on the East Side ? 

Mr. Welsh. Perhaps you might put it that way. 

Senator Nelson. You have a Bolshevik school there, have ym 

Mr. Welsh. Well, I have been in Eussia for two years, and I cuii 
hardly speak for what is happening here now. 

There is one point I would like to make, too, that a great many real 
Eussians came back at the time of the revolution. A train was sent 
out specially to release Babushka and bring her to Petrograd, and 
it was a wonderful feeling that all the Eussians showed. I have a 
friend — a friend because she came to work in our bank — the wife of 
a Eussian secretary to a neutral country, who returned after the 
revolution. She had been always a revolutionist. Her father had 
been worth millions at one time. She had been worth several millions 
in her own name. 

Maj. Humes. You are speaking of rubles, now? 

Mr. Welsh. Y^es, rubles; which before the war were worth .50 
cents to our dollar here. Her father during the war lost his money. 
She lost hers trying to help him. She came back, and there being 
no livelihood, the Bolsheviks having confiscated all the sernuitii't 
and tied up all the deposits in the banks, she went to work in one of 
the banks. I got to know her very well, a very refined woman, from 
a family that has been 300 years in the imperial court. She had been 
in the Eussian court since her debut ; had been in the neutral court. 
She was a very refined woman. 

Some of us went back and forth from Petrograd to Vologda try- 
ing to attend to our interests. There were only just a few of us 
Americans who did that, and going back and forth we used to bring 
food. She wrote me in Vologda that she had gone to the doctor, 
who had ordered her to have an operation for appendicitis, but, going 
home, she had found her maid sick with influenza. She said, "I 
am nursing her night and day." I returned on the seventh day of the 
maid's illness to Petrograd. This woman, who had been ordered by 
the doctors to have an operation for appendicitis, was waiting on 
her maid night and day, attending to her. It only goes to show the 
fine feeling that is shown by many of the aristocracy and well to do 
and educated people for their servants. 

The maid died after 12 daj^s, and the woman was practically a 
wreck. She had not been able to have her operation, and her condi- 
tion was such that she could not have stood one. We had been able 
to bring some food from Vologda, and she used to laugh and say, 
" The doctor has told me that I should have white bread, that I 
should have butter, that I should have chicken broth." She said, 
" Just imagine it ! " There was absolutely nothing of that kind 
in Petrograd. We brought in some white flour and we brought in 
some fresh eggs, and we brought in some butter. I succeeded in 
getting a little from the American Eed Cross for her. The Bed 


Cross supplies were jnst then running out. She regained, not her 
health, but some strength, and was able to get up and go around, [(nd 
she went back to the bank, working. 

When we came out on the special train from Moscow on the 26th 
of August to Petrograd, we were in Petrograd five days, held up by 
the Bolsheviks ; but on the 1st of September we left. 
' Senator Sterling. The first of this last September? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. I got to see this woman again, and to ask her 
what she was doing. The Bolsheviks were giving people in the 
fourth class nothing to eat at all. Further than that, they had insti- 
tuted a house-to-house inspection where they reported if people were 
caught buying outside the regular system of cards. If they did that 
they were reported as engaged in speculation ; and people buying even 
at exorbitant prices were subject to charges of speculation for buying 
food, if on the card system they were not entitled to it, the Bolshe- 
vik's theory being, " Let them get out and work." This woman, who, 
as I say, was highly refined, had been in the imperial court for years, 
in answer to my question as to what she was doing, said, " For the 
past week I have been digging potatoes, up to my knees in mud, for 
a pound of bread and 8 rubles a day." You can know what 8 rubles 
means when I tell you that butter was 30 rubles a pound, sugar was 
30 rubles a pound and bread was 1'2 rubles a pound; and yet this 
woman was digging potatoes for a pound of bread and 8 rubles a 

Senator Steeling. What kind of bread was it? 

Mr. Welsh. It was a black bread, which at one time almost ruined 
our stomachs, but it was the only thing you could get. If you can 
imagine a bread made out of the scrapings of the bottom of a bran 
bin, you have a description of the bread. 

This woman told me she had contemplated committing suicide, and 
would have done so except for her son; and while she was nursing 
her maid she had said, " Out of my personal acquaintances in the 
court, 23 women have committed suicide since the revolution because 
of the conditions." She added, " Now, imagine what that would 
mean to you if you could pick out 23 women acquaintances that you 
knew of that had committed suicide." 

Maj. Htjmes. This compensation of 8 rubles a daj' and a pound 
of bread, that was paid by the Bolshevik government, was it not? 

'Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Maj. Humes. They were paying that? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Maj. Humes. That was their wage scale ? 

Mr. Welsh. That was their means of getting the bourgeoisie into 
the working classes. 

Maj. Humes. Yes. 

Mr. Welsh. It is all very well for a Russian peasant woman, who 
is as strong as a man, and mucli stronger than the average American, 
I dare say. She can go out and dig potatoes and eat black bread, and 
things of that kind. But for a highly cultured woman of that class 
of people, to demand that she and that class of people go out and 
do the same thing is brutal. 

Senator Wolcott. You used the expression awhile ago that they 
had to get out and work. I want to Icnow what that expression 
means when it is used by a typical Bolshevik. 


Mr. Welsh. Digging potatoes. First or second class work. That 
is,»manual labor. You can get the most on your bread card for that 
kind of labor. 

Senator Wolcott. Do they consider, for instance, clerical work as 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. that is second class. 

Senator Wolcott. That is not favored, then? 

Mr. Welsh. It is favored, but a person who does that does not 
need as much sustenance as the laboring man. 

Senator Wolcott. How do they regard practicing medicine? Is 
that regarded as work? 

Mr. Welsh. That is in the third class, as far as I remember ; and 
the lawyers are also in the third class, or in the fourth class. 

Senator Wolcott. What is a school-teacher ; we will say, a college 

Mr. Welsh. I think Madam Breshkovskaya made the point yes- 
terday that there are not any universities or schools going except 
those run by the Bolsheviks, and that means this, that in all the 
universities and all the schools that were going, the Bolsheviks turned 
out the teachers, or they were stopped because of the influenza, or be- 
cause of lack of funds and things of that kind. Then the Bolsheviki 
tried to reorganize these with their teachers, but a great many- 
teachers throughout Eussia are not in a position to teach. 

Senator Wolcott. Well, do you know how the Bolsheviks regard 
the profession of teaching? 

Mr. Welsh. Those who are teaching for them as Bolsheviks, of 
course, receive their bread allowance, and so forth. 

Senator Wolcott. No, but I mean the people who teach the young; 
not those who teach them to read and write, but those who go into the 
little branches of education a little bit higher — mathematics? 

Mr. Welsh. The people who have been teaching the young and 
doing that, who could not find it compatible to become Bolshevik, 
of course they have, no occupation, and enter into the class — well, 
it is open to them to fall into either of the other two classes. They 
can go out and work by the day, and many of them do. I know per- 
sonally of some who have taken up shoemaking, the sewing of shoes, 
the making of shoes by hand — anything to earn a living. But their 
old teaching professions, from the old schools, have been done away 
with. My Russian teacher, who had taught in one of the universi- 
ties — girls' universities — and two or three other places, was turned 
out in every case. She had always been a social revolutionist. The 
last I heard of her, her brother had come in to visit from Viborg. 
She had met him, but his passport had to be turned in when coming 
into Petrograd. They were plarming to go to their family in Kiev. 
The brother went, a week later, to get his passport, and he never I'e- 
turned. She spent a week or ten days going through all the prisons 
in Petrograd, and finally located him. She went to Uritsky, the chief 
commissar, to find out why he was arrested, and what prospect there 
was of his being released. He said, " Your brother was in Finland 
with the White Guard, and is a White Guard." She said, " You have 
.no proof of it." "Well, he is an officer, and he was there, and," he 
added, "if we did to him like the White Guard did to the Red Guard, 
you could have his body by now, and I do not see any reason why we 
f-hould not do it vet." 


We had brought some flour from Vologda for her, and as urgent as 
the need of flour was, she never came for a week to get it, because of 
her efforts in trying to get some relief to her brother, and she told 
me they had to resort to all the old methods that you may have 
heard of, of the Russian exile, baking a loaf of bread and putting 
into the middle of it a note, and all such subterfuges, to get com- 
munication with her brother. That is one case that I know of. 

Senator Wolcott. Do you know whether her brother was shot or 

_ Mr. Welsh. I never got to see the teacher again, but the possibili- 
ties are that he was, because they were shooting prisoners because 
they could not feed them. 

One month later, after we came out, one of the employees of our 
bank, who was a Serb, who came out later because he could not come 
out with us, told me that his landlord was arrested. That was at 
night, because they always come in the early morning and the night. 
The landlady went to the Bolsheviks the next morning to see if she 
could do anything for her husband, bring him some food, or any- 
thing, and they said, " What do you think we are running, a hotel ? 
If you want his body, you may have it." 

Senator Nelson. Did you see any looting or taking possession of 
houses and buildings? 

Mr. Welsh. I heard of any amount of it. 

Senator Nelson. Can you describe some of it? 

Mr. Welsh. I did not see it personally, although this happened to 
be one of the members of the British Embassy. He was going through 
what they call Narodny Dom Park — that is, the People's House 
Park — with another friend. He was held up. It was in the late 
afternoon. His fur coat and valuables were taken away, and while 
he stood there, people passing by within 20 feet did not dare to 
give any assistance. They hurried along so that they would not be 

If this is the time, I would like to give a description of what hap- 
pened to the Eussian banks ; but in answer to this other question, let 
me say this: Almost all banking in Eussia is done in cash. If it 
was a large sum, if the people had the necessary permit for you to 
give them a large sum of money, which took three or four days to 
get, you would give them a check on the State Bank, and they would 
go to the State Bank, and after getting a permit to stand in line 
they would go the next day and stand in line, and if successful would 
get their cash the next day. The operation would take about four 
days. Inside of the State Bank there were spotters. 

Senator Nelson. Spotters? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes, spotters for hooligans or highwaymen outside, 
who would pass the word along, saying, " Such and such people are 
coming out with 100,000 or 200,000 rubles in cash." Then as they 
would go along the street with the cash, an automobile would drive 
up to the curb, men would jump out and hold them up, take the cash, 
and drive off with it. It was a constant danger in sending out bank 
messengers and if a man stayed out over two or three hours, it was 
the thought that possibly he was held up. 

In May there were two instances where bank messengers, or fac- 
tory messengers, I forget which, that is messengers sent out by large 


factories to get cash to pay the workmen, were held up, or rather, 
shot. The automobile drove up to the curb and the men jumped out 
and shot the bank messenger and then took the money off the body, 
in broad daylight. 

Senator Overman. How did they treat the women? Wliat were 
their morals? 

Mr. Welsh. AVell, I can not say personally, because I do not know. 
I should think that Dr. Simons, or somebody who was more or less 
interested in the social conditions,' in that way, would be a better 
authority. I was interested more in what happened to the banks. 

Maj. Humes. Tell about the Russian banks. 

Senator Nelson. Eussia has only one central bank, has it not? 

Mr. Welsh. When, now or 

Senator Nelson. No, they did have? 

Mr. Welsh. No, Russia had as many as 35 banks. They have 
but one, now. 

Senator Nelson. They had 35 banks in Russia? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Government banks? 

Mr. Welsh. No. 

Senator Nelson. That is what I mean; how many government 
banks did they have ? 

Mr. Welsh. They had one State bank. 

Senator Nelson. That is what I mean; one government bank. 

Mr. Welsh. Yes; but besides that, they had 30 or 35 very large 

Senator Nelson. But they were private banks? 

Mr. Welsh. They were private banks. 

Senator Nelson. They were not state banks? 

Mr. Welsh. Not state banks. 

Senator Nelson. The government had only one, the Imperial Bank 
there at Petrograd ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes, sir. Some of these banks were larger than any 
we have in the United States. 

Senator Nelson. The gold reserve was kept in this state bank, 
as you call it ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. For the whole country? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Do you remember what that was before the revo- 
lution ? 

Mr. Welsh. I am not sure. It could be verified. There are statis- 
tics in this country on that. I think it was 1,000,000,000 rubles gold. 

Senator Nelson. Yes; about $500,000,000 in our money? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes ; $500,000,000. 

Senator Nelson. What was their paper circulation at that time— 
I mean, before the revolution? 

Mr. Welsh. Before the revolution ? It is better to go to the actual 
statistics on that, which may be had in this country. 

Senator Overman. I would like to know the amount of paper 
issued now. 

Mr. Welsh. Well, it is reported that the budget for the Bolsheviks 
for the year was something like 70,000,000,000 rubles, which must be 


Senator NELso^f. What became of that gold reserve in the State 

Mr. Welsh. You may have read in the papers that as a part of 
the Brest-Litovsk treaty a payment in gold was made to Germany. 

Senator Nelson. About $200,000,000? 

Mr. Welsh. $200,000,000? 

Senator Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Welsh. And the actual gold v^as transferred to Berlin. 

Senator Nelson. And what became of the balance? Did the 
Bolsheviki take it ? 

Mr. Welsh. Well, you say the Bolsheviki. The Bolsheviki have 
taken over the State Bank and all the private banks. 

Senator Nelson. Yes; so that they took it over — the whole thing? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nei^on. Are they running the State Bank now ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Through their officials ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Have they taken it out of the hands of the old 
officials ? 

Mr. Welsh. Oh, yes, sir; the Bolsheviks came into power on the 
7th of November, our style — ^the 25th of October, Russian style. 

Senator Wolcott. Do you know who the head man is, on top, of 
all these banks, the way they are now ? 

Mr. Welsh. He chan'ges. I do not know who he is now. 

Senator Wolcott. Have you known any of them? 

Mr. Welsh. Not personally. 

Senator Wolcott. But do you know about him? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Wolcott. Was he a banking man? 

Mr. Welsh. No ; I think he was a lawyer. 

Senator Wolcott. A lawyer? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Wolcott. He became the head of all these banks? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes; I think it would make it clearer just to sketch 
what happened to the Eussian banks, and then you can question me. 

Senator Nelson. Yes ; that is what I would like to know. 

Mr. Welsh. When the Bolsheviki came into power they siezed the 
State Bank on the 25th of October, Russian style (the 7th of Novem- 
ber) . The other banks went on a strike, so to speak, and would not 
have anything to do with the State Bank. They were at a disadvan- 
tage, however, because their cash reserves were in the State Bank, 
and under the uncertainty people would not deposit money — cash. 
Therefore the banks soon ran out of actual cash. They were forced, 
from circumstances, to come to some kind of an understanding with 
the Bolsheviks, which they tried to do. It was unsatisfactory, both 
to the bank people and to the Bolsheviks, and the Bolsheviks cut the 
Gordian knot by seizing all of the banks on the 14th of December, 
Russian style, the 27th of November, our style. On that morning a 
group of soldiers entered each one of the banks and seized it in the 
name of the People's Bank. They seized the books. All the Russian 
clerks went on a strike. Those clerks remained on a strike for six 


Senator Nelson. In those banks? 

Mr. Welsh. In those banks. Now, if you will kindly keep these 
facts in mind, you can get a picture of the chaos and try to apply it to 
the United States. You can see what happened. These clerks re- 
mained on strike for six months. The Bolsheviks, wholly un- 
daunted, put in their own men to run the banks. The banks re- 
mained closed three or four weeks, and after that the Bolsheviks 
announced that they would open four branches of the People's Bank, 
Into those four branches they threw 

Senator Nelson. Where were those places? 

Mr. Welsh. They picked out four of the largest old banks, and 
called them the domiciles of the first, second, third, and fourth 
branches of the People's Bank. 

Senator Nelson. At what points were those located ? 

Mr. Welsh. I am speaking only of Petrograd. 

Senator Nelson. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Welsh. This was only in Petrograd, because the head offices 
were in Petrograd. 

Senator Wolcott. Just a moment. The 35 banks j'ou spoke of a 
moment ago were all in Petrograd ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes; the bank system of Russia is these 35 banks, 
having offices, branches, all through Russia. Their head offices are 
in Petrograd, and it is not like it is here, where we have thousands 
of State and national banks. There were 35, very large banks, with 
branches all through Russia, so that the seizure of those banks meant 
the seizure of the banking system of Russia. 

Into each of those four or five former banks were put branches of 
the People's Bank. Now, you can get the picture by imagining that 
if the Guarantee Trust Co. was picked as one of the branches, the 
books from the First National Bank and the National City Bank, 
and, perhaps, from the Chatham Bank and three or four others 
would be taken to those premises and put into that bank. Everyone 
had to go to the one bank for money. 

Senator Nelson. That is, the 35 banks were consolidated into four? 

Mr. Welsh. Into four. Many of the books were lost. Many of 
them were retained by the old employees, hidden by them. The 
Bolsheviks could not get them. Many of them were lost in trans- 
porting them, because the soldiers knew absolutely nothing of the 
value of those books. In fact, in the former Siberian Bank they were 
unable to find one of the current account books for six months. 

Senator Nelson. In the Siberian Bank? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. It was literal chaos. You could not get any- 
thing done, and every bank transaction that was done, in order to get 
it through you had to send some one personally . I have gone many, 
many times to the Russian banks to see a transaction put through, 
and it would take perhaps three weeks, following it up continuously, 
to get a transaction effected which in this country is done through the 
clearing house within one or two hours on the same day. 

Senator Nelson. How did the public get along under those condi- 
tions? How did they manage to get money out of the banks? 

Mr. Welsh. They did not get it out of the banks. They made a 
ruling that the workingman being unable to live on 600 rubles a 
month, no one was allowed to draw more than 600 rubles a month 


from their current account. That meant that people ran out of cash. 
They had to sell their valuables and what they could, or go out and 
dig potatoes, as I have said, in order to gain a livelihood. In Petro- 
grad when we left, all over on the central streets there were, by tens 
and twenties, commission shops where you could buy some of the 
finest old antiques, gold and silver and everything you could think of, 
at ridiculous prices, sold by bourgeois who were selling them for 
money in order to get food. 

Senator Nelson. There was a perfect chaos then prevailing in the 
bank business ? 

Mr. Welsh. Perfect chaos ; and the same thing took place in the 
factories, in industry. 

Senator Nelson. Did these leaders abstract any of the funds of 
the bank ? Did they help themselves to the funds of the bank ? 

Mr. Welsh. I can not answer that authoritatively, but I can cite 
one or two cases which may throw light on it.. No one was allowed 
to withdraw money, as I said, over the amount of 600 rubles a month, 
except factories for the purpose of buying materials or paying the 
workmen, and then only when the committee of the workmen in 
charge of the factory gave their O. K. These committees in the 
beginning oftentimes would come to the employer and say, " Our 
salaries are such and such, and we need so much;" and there was sev- 
eral hundred per cent increase in salaries. They would say, " You 
draw a check on your account for it and we will get the money." 
A manufacturer might protest and say, " We have no funds in the 
bank." " That does not make any difference. You draw a check 
and we will get the money." Many, many accounts have been 
debited with checks, in which there were not sufficient funds to pay, 
up, I should say, into the millions. How the bank officials, the Bol- 
shevik bank officials, are ever to make the adjustment, a banker can 
not imagine. 

Senator Nelson. And you can not tell, with regard to these men 
who profess to draw money out for manufacturing purposes, whether 
they apply it to that or not ? 

Mr. Welsh. No. The situation became such that if a manufac- 
turer protested they simply came in to him with guns and said, 
" Either you do as we say, or get out." 

Senator Nei^on. Did the workmen take possession of the fac- 
tories ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And they appointed committees to run them? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Did they succeed in operating them ? 

Mr. Welsh. They succeeded for perhaps a month or two, until 
materials ran out and until funds ran out, and they could not realize 
on anything. 

Senator Nelson. What did they do then ? 

Mr. Welsh. Then they quit. 

Senator Nelson. And what became of the workmen ? 

Mr. Welsh. They went back to the villages. 

Senator Nelson. Oh; in the country? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. In Petrograd at the time of the revolution there 
were upward of 3,000,000 people. In Petrograd at the present time, 


or, when we came outj it was stated that there were not over 500,000 
or 600,000. The workmen have gone back into the country. 

Senator Nelson. Among the peasants? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. The bourgeoisie have tried to find refuge where 
they could, and what few people there are left now are starving to 
death. There can be no doubt about it. 

Senator Nelson. Do you not think those workmen, after they get 
back among the peasants, after they have failed in their efforts to 
run the factories, will see a new light? 

Mr. "Welsh. I think most of them have. 

Senator Nelson. And they will be cured? 

Mr. Welsh. Most of them are cured. As Babushka pointed out 
yesterday, there is very little Bolshevism in the country among the 
peasants. There is Bolshevism, if you want to call it such, in so far 
as the Bolsheviks promised the land to the peasants ; but that was a 
promise which all friends of Russia made to the peasants. When the 
peasants, then, were allowed to take the land, they had no further 
interest in Bolshevism, and they are anti-Bolshevik. 

Senator Nelson. Are you familiar with the land system of Russia? 

Mr. Welsh. Well, somewhat ; but I am not 

Senator Nelson. As I understand it, and I want to see if I am cor- 
rect, after the serfs were emancipated, the lands were assigned to 
the village communities — what they call mirs over there — and were 
not in absolute, individual ownership, but were assigned to the com- 
munities, and then these village communities, through their authority, 
allocated lands to the peasants, either from year to year or for a 
period; is that correct? 

Mr. Welsh. That is correct; yes. 

Senator Nelson. Then there grew up a number of peasants who 
would buy out their land allotments ? 

Mr. Welsh. Buy them out; yes. They now would be landowners 
and bourgeoisie. 

Senator Nelson. Yes. They would be capitalists. 

Mr. Welsh. Yes ; they are capitalists ; and yet born peasants ; per- 
haps their gi-andf athers were serfs. They themselves peasants, and 
the backbone of Russia, as our American farmers are the backbone of 

Senator Nelson. This land confiscation^ mainly, whatever there is 
done so far, is to confiscate the estates of the big land owners ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Down in the black belt, in the Ukraine and that 
country, there are large landed estates in private ownerships, or were 
before the revolution ; is not that the case ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And it is probably those lands they are confiscat- 
ing and attempting to apportion among the peasants ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes ; but there is no system. The peasants living upon 
a great estate would take it upon themselves to take the estate, and 
the way they would take it would be that instead of saving the cattle 
and swine, and things of value, they would come in and bum the 
houses, and destroy the cattle, chickens, etc., because they have no 
conception of preservation. 


Senator Nelson. The peasant farmers over there do not, like our 
farmers, live each on his own individual piece of land, but they live 
in villages, do they not? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And then they go out from these villages each 
day and cultivate their patches of land ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And they for many years under the Czar's gov- 
ernment have had a sort of local government in those villages, and 
have elected their oAvn communal councils, have they not? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. So that they had a sort of local government, 
under the old system? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Now, this new system of the Bolsheviki is to 
establish what they call Soviets in all these villages, is it not ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And also in the cities ; and have these Soviets elect 
delegates to the general soviet at Petrograd, is not that it? 

Mr. Welsh. That in theory is it. 

Senator Nelson. I mean that is their theory. 

Mr. Welsh. It is not the way it practically works out, because it 
works out practically that Moscow sends out from Moscow representa- 
tives who call themselves and make themselves the Soviets in the towns 
and the villages. 

Maj. Htjmes. Senator Nelson, I have the land regulations, if you 
woxild like to have them read at this point. 

Senator Nelson. You have the present regulations? 

Maj. Humes. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. But not the old regulations? 

Maj. Humes. No, but I have the Lenine order. 

Senator Nelson. You might put that in the record, if you have it. 

Maj. Humes. I was going to put it in the record, but I thought 
perhaps you would like to read it. 

Senator Nelson. I know something about their present land regu- 
lations. I was referring to the old system.. 

Senator 0^'EEMAN. Is there anything else from this witness ? 

Maj. Humes. Did you know Mr. Treadwell? 

Mr. Welsh. I got to know him very well and to think very highly 
of him. 

Maj. Humes. What position did he occupy? 

Mr. Welsh. He was the American consul in Petrograd at the time 
of the evacuation of the allies from Russia. 

Maj. Humes. Was he arrested by the Bolsheviki? 

Mr. Welsh. He was not arrested at that time, but under orders 
from the consul general at Moscow, he was sent into Tashkend, Turke- 
stan, where he took over not only the American interests but the allied 
and British interests, and he was arrested there and held by the 

Senator Nelson. That is down below the Caspian Sea ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes ; and as far as I know now, he is still held by the 

Senator Overman. You say Treadwell is held by the Bolsheviks? 


Mr. Welsh. Yes; our American counsel at Petrograd is held in 
Tashkend by the Bolsheviks. 

Senator NELSOisr. Did you become acquainted with Albert Rhys 
Williams over there? 

Mr. Welsh. No ; personally, I did not. 

Senator Nelson. Do you know anything of his activities there ? 

Mr. Welsh. Personally, I do not. In fact, he was a stranger to me 
until I heard of him over here. 

Senator Nelson. He did not do any business with your bank? 

Mr. Welsh. Not that I know of. 

Senator Nelson. Or with any of these Kussian banks ? 

Mr. Welsh. He may have with the Russian banks. 

Senator Overman. Where did the Eed Cross keep their money ( 

Mr. Welsh. Largely in our bank, I believe. 

Senator Overman. Who managed the Eed Cross funds over there? 

Mr. Welsh. Well, while Col. Thompson was there it was handled 
under him as chairman, and under whoever was the authorized rep- 
resentative of the Ked Cross. 

Senator Sterling. Were you there at the breaking out of the revo- 
lution in March, 1917? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes, sir; I went to Petrograd four or five months 
before that, and remained almost two years during this whole 

Senator Overman. Was Col. Thompson over there? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes ; he was in Russia. 

Senator Overman. Did he affiliate with the Bolshevik people? 

Mr. Welsh. Well, it is a question just what you mean by affiliat- 
ing. Of course, we all had to work with the Bolsheviks because there 
was no other government. 

Senator Overman. I got a letter this morning — I do not know 
whether there is any truth in it or not — stating that he had con- 
tributed funds to the Bolshevik Government. Do you know any- 
thing about that? 

Mr. Welsh. Personally, I do not; but it can be verified from 
other sources — ^that is, verified whether it is true or not. 

Senator Overman. I am getting letters from all sorts of people, 
and I do not know whether they are true or not. 

Senator Wolcott. It can be verified from M'hat sort of other 
sources — individuals, or through banking records? 

Mr. Welsh. Not through bank records, I do not think. 

Senator Nelson. Was he not carrying on propaganda there to 
have himself appointed minister from this country to the Bolshevik 
Government ? 

Senator Overjman. That is Robins you are thinking of. 

Mr. Welsh. I do not think Col. Thompson did. I might say 
here that when the Bolsheviks came in they came in with their prin- 
ciples and promises which, on the face of them, as Breshkovskaya 
said, were taken over from the socialists and people who agreed with 
the latter, and many of us felt a certain sympathy, you might say, 
with the Bolsheviks and what they were trying to do ; but afterwards, 
when the best Bolsheviks found that it was incompatible for them 
to stay in with the other robbers and people who were at the head 
of it, who had begun to pervert all the principles and things they 


were standing for, everyone was out of sympathy with them, and 
■jnany of the Americans, who may have been in Russia at tiie time 
when Bolshevism was in good favor, may have carried away that 
impression and still hold it, but it is an erroneous impression which 
would have been corrected if they had stayed in Russia and seen ho^ 
the Bolsheviks perverted these same principles down through the 
months that followed. 

Senator Steeling. You say you were there at the time of the revo- 
lution, when the Tsar was deposed ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes, sir. 

Senator Sterling. The Duma was in session then, was it not ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes, sir. 

Senator Sterling. I would like to have your opinion in regard to 
that. Was there confidence expressed in the Duma and the leaders 
of the Duma at that time, as to the kind of government they might 
work out. 

Mr. Welsh. There was a wonderful confidence. The spirit of the 
Russian Revolution was perfectly wonderful. It was like a great 
moment in the life of a nation. And that is the hopeful thing about 
Russia, because the Russian people showed at that time what was in 
them. They may have gone back, they may be depressed now, and the 
people are suffering with melancholia, but that is the great sustain- 
ing hope that people like Breshkovskaya have; and the hope for 
Russia is, without question, that Russia is going to right herself. 

Senator Steeling. Was there faith in such leaders as the president 
of the Duma, and Miliukov, and others of that class? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes, at that time; and later with Kerensky and the 
others. I have heard Breshkovskaya state that they became en- 
tangled in their legalisms, as to whether or not a thing was legal 
and they lost sight of the fact that the thing to do was to put 
things into action. So the people became impatient with them, and 
when the Bolsheviks said they could do what the Kerensky govern- 
ment and the others could not do, the Bolsheviks succeeded in getting 
into power. 

Senator Steeling. When Kerensky came in power there was gen- 
eral confidence in him? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes, there was remarkable confidence. He was the 
man of the hour at that time. 

Senator Steeling. What was the reason for his failure? 

Mr. Welsh. I think Breshkovska^^a stated here that he was lost m 
the intricacies of his legal mind. He would debate as to whether a 
thing was legal to be done, when the thing to do was to decide 
whether it was to be done or not immediately. He hesitated. 

Senator Oveeman. I was impressed with what you said as to the 
state of mind there now being one of melancholia. 

Mr. Welsh. As I said a few minutes ago — going back to that — from 
the time we evacuated on March 19th, up until June 24th, I made 
four trips to Petrograd, and then again was in Petrograd during the 
week from the 26th of August to the 1st of September. Going out 
from where we werft in Vologda, where there was a little food, a little 
refreshment, and life seemed a little brighter, to come back into 
Petroo-rad was terribly depressing. All your friends that were left 
there "^all the people that you knew, were suffering from melancholia, 


and you just could not help but feel terribly depressed at the hope- 
lessness of the whole situation ; and then people would turn and ask, 
'• What is America going to do?" And we, as Americans, would try 
to encourage them, and would say that America was going to come to 
their help, and we believed it would. 

Senator Sterling. In what way did you think that America would 
come to their help? 

Mr. Welsh. Every foreigner in Russia at that time looked on the 
Archangel expedition as a real movement for intervention. We 
were at Vologda at the time. There were no Bolshevik troops there 
except 300 Lettish troops, and the commandant of the Lettish troops 
said himself that they would not fight if the allies came, because they 
were there for police duty. In fact, a Lett who was not a soldier, 
but had married and was a very respectable man, told us that he 
could get these same Letts to take a boat, arm it, and escort us to the 
allied lines. 

Senator What would be the result if intervention took 
place? Would these peasants that are sad and depressed, together 
with the bourgeoisie who are starving, appreciate America's com- 
ing in there, and rally to the cause? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes, absolutely. They looked forward to it, and we 
looked forward to it when we were in Vologda. We expected each 
week that the allies were coming down. They had the whole rail- 
road, and they might have come on a train right straight down to 
Vologda, without any interference at all. We expected it. And the 
Bolsheviki in Moscow expected it, and arrested the British and 
French embassy officials as hostages. They did not come. Many 
of the people who were interested in throwing the Bolsheviks out 
showed this, and became marked by the Bolsheviks, and later had to 
paj' the penalty with their lives. They expected the allies to come 
in and give them relief. They tried to do what they could, and 
when the allied help failed them, thej' were taken by the Bolsheviki 
and executed. 

Senator Steeling. How much allied help do you think would have 
been required for the Czecho-Slovaks and the loyal Russian Army, 
such as there was of it, to have saved Moscow ? 

ilr. Welsh. At that time, when the allies took Archangel, 20,000 
troops, we all believed — although we were not military authorities- 
might have taken Moscow and Petrograd and established order out 
of chaos. 

Senator Steeling. Did not the Czecho-Slovaks take several towns 
there. Samara among them, against greatly superior forces of Bol- 
sheviki ? 

]Mr. Welsh. Against tremendously superior forces. They took 
Samara ; they took Kazan ; they took Perm ; they took most of those 

Senator Sterling. Ufa is one. 

Mr. Welsh. Yes ; Ufa — without any resistance whatever. In fact, 
while we were in Moscow, Kazan was taken by the Czecho-Slovaks, 
and the report of the Bolshevik commandant was, " We have evacu- 
ated from Kazan without the loss of a single man;" and he was 
awarded a medal for bravery for having a hole put through his hat. 


Senator Nelson. And those forces that you refer to there coming 
up from Samara, working northward, were expecting to get help 
from the allies ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And because they were disappointed in that, they 
met with reverses. If we had had a small force then, and met them 
there at Vologda, and furnished them ammunition, and cooperated, 
they would have gotten the upper hand then, would they not, as what 
ihej needed was ammunition and arms? 

Mr. Welsh. That Avas the belief of those who were there. They 
were moving on, seeking to take Perm, and they were going on to 
Viatka, which they could have taken. We looked for them to come in 
on the Siberian line through Viatka and make a junction with the 
forces from Archangel and Vologda, thus making a front and clean- 
ing up the situation. 

Senator Nelson. There were two forces, one coming in from the 
Siberian line, and the other coming in from the south. 

Mr. Welsh. From the north. 

Senator Nelson. And then our forces from the north? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. And both of those two other forces were expect- 
ing to get help from our forces coming down from Archangel ? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. Expecting more ammunition and supplies than 
anything else, and they did not get it? 

Mr. Welsh. Not only that, but 

Senator Nelson. That Archangel move was as fatal a move as the 
move of the allies at the Dardanelles. If they had had a force of 
50,000 men there, or 25,000 men, with ample supplies of ammunition 
and everything else, the Bolshevik government would have been at 
an end ? 

Mr. Welsh. That was our belief. It was our belief that the 
forces they had there were sufficient if they had moved, if they had 
come down. As Breshkovskaya pointed out yesterday, a million 
troops that stand still are no good to Eussia, but 60,000 that will 
fight and move are a help. 

Senator Sterling. What would be your opinion as to the effe;:t 
of a reasonably large allied force in Eussia to-day, as a stabilizing, 
conserving force that would prevent the disorders and excesses of 
the Bolsheviki, and enable them to work out a stable government ? 

Mr. Welsh. I tried to make the point that it is hard for anyone 
who has come out of Eussia a month previously to speak with author- 
ity on it. We can speak of conditions when we were there, but you 
must consider this, that when at that time we felt that that force of 
20 000 could have taken it, we knew the sentiment of the Eussian peo- 
ple. Since then the Eussian people have had to submit to the disap- 
pointment of their hopes that food would be brought to them and 
that the allies would come and take the Bolsheviki off their neck. 
That hope has been deferred, and what it has turned into I can not 
say. Whether it has turned into distrust sufficient to make allied 
intervention a failure now I can not say. 

Senator Overman. Mr. Welsh, the Eussian people in all their wars 
have been brave fighters and good soldiers. Why, in your opinion. 


does not some leader rise up and organize these soldiers and over- 
throw these Bolshevild among themselves? 

Mr. Welsh. I think Breshkovskaya tried to make that plain yes- 
terday. The people have been systematically starved by the Bol- 
sheviki for eight months — the leaders and the people. They have 
searched on the streets and in the houses for arms of every kind 
for the last six months. There are no arms except in the hands of 
the BolsheviM ; there is no food except in the hands of the Bolshe- 
viki. Those leaders whom you might have looked to at that time 
that I spoke of, when we were expecting the allies to come in, those 
leaders came forward, but were seized by the Bolsheviki and executed. 
After such drastic measures when people who had the courage came 
forward on the strength of the hope of belief in the allies, when that 
hope was not realized, how can you expect the people to rise up? 

The other point is that the peasants, who are the great body and 
mass of the Russian people, are self-sufficient unto themselves. They 
are back in the villages, where there are no Bolsheviki. If the Bolshe- 
viki come out they fight them with pitchforks or anything they can 
get. I, personally, with two other companions, was almost mobbed 
in a little village 5 miles from Vologda, because they thought we 
were Bolsheviki. We had come out to see an historic monastery 
there, and were going through the place. Just before us had been 
some Russians who may have been Bolsheviki. At any rate they 
were exceedingly impudent to the monks. They left, but we re- 
mained in the monastery. Some people came up to us and asked what 
we were doing. AVe said, " Xothing, just looking around." They 
said, " 'V^1lo are you? " We said, "Americans; allies." They said, 
" That is very well. Make yourselves at home." 

That was a group of 15 people. We went farther on, and later 
the group grew to 50 people. These were not satisfied, and while 
some of them were demanding that we should get out, others who had 
been there earlier spoke to us and tried to apologize, saying, " Some 
Bolsheviki haA'e been here trj'ing to requisition the food of the mon- 
astery, and our peasants are afraid that you are Bolsheviks. There- 
fore it is best that you should leave." " Well," we said, "if that is the 
case, we will leave," and we started to go ; but by this time there was 
a very large crowd, of 150 women and men. Luckily for us, there 
were no large sticks or stones; but we, not being Russian but being 
Americans, tried to take it humorously and if possible make the best 
of it, whereas an ordinary Russian might have lost his temper and 
fought back, and would have been mobbed by them as Bolsheviks. 
This was 5 miles out of Vologda. That is convincing to me of the 
peasants' attitude toward the Bolsheviks. 

Senator Overman. If some leader should rise up and lead these 
peasants against these Bolsheviki, they would have no munitions, no 

Mr. Welsh. What would they lead them with? With pitchforks 
and clubs, with the Red Guards having machine guns and all modern 
equipment? They have the complete equipment of the Russian 
Army ; that is, all that was not given to the Germans. 

Senator Steeling. Would not allied intervention in sufficient 
force be reassuring to those peasants, and would they not, although 
at present not armed, give their moral support to such intervention? 


Mr. Welsh. I think a Russian can answer that question better, 
but Breshkovskaya answered that question yesterday by saying yes. 
For myself, I feel that the great need of Russia at the present time 
is food. If the allies could go in with food and provisions and with 
enough armed force to see that that food was not given to the 
Bolsheviki and did not fall into the hands of the Bolsheviki, but 
was given to everyone alike, and if they wanted to give to the 
Bolsheviks, well and good — ^because you can not tell whether a man 
is a Bolshevik or not by what he says to-day, and I can cite an 
example of that — but to go on, you can not expect people to make 
an orderly government when they are starving to death. But give 
them food, give them clothing, and help them to a self-respecting 
position, and they will work themselves out. But if this thing is 
allowed to run on, the intelligent and educated people are going to 
be systematically starved out and the restoration of Russia is going 
to take years and years instead of a few years. 

Senator Overman. There has been a great starvation of those 
people, has there not? 

Mr. Welsh. Breshkovskaya stated yesterday, in answer to one of 
your questions, as to how many the Bolsheviki had killed, and said 
that the casualties of the war with Germany were only one-half of 
what the Bolsheviki had killed. The word " killed " in that sense, I 
believe, should be interpreted to mean not only killed by guns, but 
by actual starvation. 

Senator Overman. You think, if this thing goes on, that thousands 
of people will be starved to death? 

Mr. Welsh. Thousands have starved to death. There is abso- 
lutely no question but that in the city of Moscow to-day there is 
absolute starvation. We had been on what you might call starva- 
tion rations for eight months, with no sugar, no butter, no white 

Senator Overman. No meat? 

Mr. Welsh. Horse meat; and when it is asked if horse meat is 
appetizing, it is appetizing, but when you go down the street and 
see three or four horses that have dropped dead yesterday, and come 
back to-morrow and find one of them half cut away, and go back 
the next day and find the same horse still lying there, cut still fur- 
ther away — and I have seen one horse lying for five days, to my 
actual knowledge, in one place, and being continually cut up — you 
do not enjoy horse meat under those conditions. 

Senator Overman. I should think that would produce disease 
among them. 

Mr. Welsh. If you ask a person coming out of Russia at the 
present time, " Have you the flu? " he will say, " Oh, yes." The flu 
is not anything to them. Over here it is terrible ; but in comparison 
to what life means in Russia the flu is a minor thing. 

Senator Overman. What will be the result, then, if this state of 
affairs goes on for another year? 

Mr. Welsh. There is positive starvation in Petrograd and Mos- 
cow and, as Breshkovskaya pointed out yesterday, the north of 
Russia is not self supporting. It gets additional food from Siberia 
and the south. What grain they had coming on was reaped in 
August. We left there in September, one month later, and there 
85723—19 19 


was already a shortage. If there was a shortage after one month, 
how could that crop last through September, October, November, 
December, January, and right straight through until spring? And it 
will be spring before they can get any edibles at all — any potatoes, 
any grain, or anything of that kind. It should be perfectly plain 
that under such conditions there can be nothing but starvation. 

In the winter of 1917 the American Eed Cross kept thousands of 
children from starving to death by the very well-organized and 
worked-out distribution of milk — condensed milk. Their supplies ran 
out in May, 1918. Since then there has been absolutely nothing of that 
kind to be given to the children and babies of Petrograd and Moscow. 
There is only one answer, and that is starvation. The mother of my 
assistant in the bank, as far back as March, 1918, was making bread, 
for which they paid 20 cents a pound, out of meal from which they 
make linseed oil that is used to feed to cattle. She was malring bread 
out of that meal to feed the family. That was as far back as jMarch, 
1918, almost a year ago. People in this country have absolutely no 
conception of it. For instance, Breshkovskaya j'esterday was as- 
tounded at the ignorance of the American people. We always feel, 
'■ Why ask these questions? Do you not know these things? "" It is 
terrible that people in this country can not picture or realize what is 
happening in Eussia at the present time. 

Senator Nelson. The food-producing and grain-producing por- 
tions of Eussia are all south and east of these centers of the revolution. 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelsox. That is, around Petrograd and around Moscow 
and around Vologda, and all those places there in the northern part 
of Eussia, they do not produce enough for their own support. 

Mr. Welsh. They do not produce enough for their own support. 

Senator Nelson. The food must come either from the Ukraine 
country or from Siberia. 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. But do you not think that if they had transporta- 
tion facilities and could distribute what there is in Siberia and south 
Eussia, they could supply themselves? 

Mr. Welsh. They could ; but the key to the situation is this, that in 
the sections where there is food the peasants will not sell it for the 
money they have in Eussia. which deteriorates from month to month. 
They say, " Give us shoes, give us implements, give us anything, and 
we will give you our grain." So that no one can go in there and take 
it. The Bolsheviks can not take it away from them and neither can 
anyone else. Unless you can send from this country supplies of other 
kinds to be exchanged for their food, they will not release it. 

Senator Nelson. The starvation you speak of is not confined to the 
peasantry in the country? They have enough food to live on? It 
must be confined to the people in these large cities ? 

]Mr. Welsh. It is confined to the people in the large cities ; and yet 
there is a very stringent shortage among the peasants. We asked our 
maid in Vologda, atIio was quitting then, in August, to go back to the 
harvest, how much land they had. She said, " I do not Imow." " Well, 
how much crops do you raise ?" She said, being exceedingly ignorant. 
" I do not loiow how many bushels, etc. I know it is not sufficient for 
our family." That was the way she measured it. 


Senator Nelson. Their lack of desire to laise more food is due to 
their, fear that it will be captured by the Bolshe^iki? Is there not 
something in that ? 

Mr. Welsh. There is something- in that; but she stated that for 
many years past the land they had in their family was not sufficient 
to support the family. She was working in Vologda and earning 
money to support herself, and sending money to the family. 

Senator Steeling. What do you say as to'the condition" involved in 
Senator Nelson's question, namely, that the peasants are not pro- 
ducing sufficient grain because of their fear that it will be taken by 
the Bolsheviki ? 

Mr. Welsh. I think that is true; and Breshkovskaya yesterday 
stated it as a fact, and she ought to Ifnow. 

Maj . Httmes. Mr. Welsh, are you familiar with the method of elect- 
ing these Soviets and the way they conduct their elections ? Have you 
any instances that you can relate ? 

Mr. Welsh. I do not think anj^one can be familiar with that, be- 
cause there are no elections. 

Maj. Humes. Give us a sample of one method, if you know of such. 

Mr. Welsh. Well, in Vologda, where we came in closer contact 
with it, the soviet authorities there were outsiders, and not Vologda 
people. They had come from the outside. Vologda had been a very 
progressive city, and therefore the change through Bolshevism was 
very slight. That is, they retained the city organization of the dis- 
tribution of food, etc., and the Bolshevik president of the soviet was 
a fairly moderate, liberal .man, so they got along very well until in 
July the Moscow government sent up a commission from Moscow 
which threw out what had been the bolshevik soviet, and took entire 
charge of the situation, and organized a committee of five in whom 
full legislative and military powers over the city of Vologda were 

Maj. Humes. Were these five people residents of Vologda, or out- 
siders ? 

Mr. Welsh. They had come from Moscow. One of them was our 
friend Eadek, who was with Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg in 

Senator Nelson. Who recently has been arrested in Germany? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes. He. I believe, is an Austrian. 

Maj. HtiMES. How did they run the city, and what was the reason 
they found it necessary to depose the original soviet? 

Mr. Welsh. All the reasons I do not know, though one reason that 
was given was the presence of the allied troops in Archangel, and 
they came under that pretext. 

Maj. Humes. How did the new soviet conduct the affairs of the 
city, as compared to the way they were being conducted by the 

original soviet? 

Mr. Welsh. They simply issued mandatory decrees. The other 
soviet which was made up of liberal socialists and liberal Bolsheviks, 
had tried to conduct a semblance of an elective government, which 
was true in the beginning of the Bolshevik government throughout 
Russia but as in Vologda — and Vologda is only illustrative of what 
has happened all over — the Bolsheviki, to preserve themselves, found 
it necessary to send in a dictatorship and take over the government. 


And when some people talk about the Bolsheviki, telling us about a 
constitutional government, what is said may have been true when the 
Bolsheviki first came in, but what you want to know is the state of 
conditions at the present time, and in Vologda at the present time 
the government is in the hands of a commission of five. 

Senator Nelson. This Vologda commission was sent from Moscow? 

Mr. Welsh. Yes, with Eadek at the head of them. They issued 
mandatory decrees of an}' nature that they felt necessary. 

Then, too, it is a well known fact that the Bolsheviks dispersed the 
National Constituent Assembly which met shortly after they came 
into power, for the reason that it did not have a Bolshevik majority. 

Senator Nelson. And took possession of whatever property they 
wanted, buildings, houses, furniture, money, and I suppose every- 

Mr. Welsh. Yes, and at that time they started in and arrested some 
hundred or so of the leading people of Vologda and held them sev- 
eral weeks. Twenty of them they took as hostages to Moscow, and 
I do not doubt at all but that those twenty have been killed. 

Senator Nelsox. How big a place is Vologda ? 

Mr. Welsh. It was 40,000 ; but Vologda is characteristic of where 
the peasants have grown up, and the leading people were only one 
generation removed from the peasants themselves; and yet those 
same people fled from this commission when it entered the town, and 
had to hide themselves wherever they could. 

Senator Nelson. So that the people of that town, the rank and file 
and the masses of the people, were not in sympathy with that com- 
mittee of five that was sent there?- 

Mr. Welsh. Not only that, but, as I stated, the Lettish troops who 
were there, supporting them at the time, would not have resisted the 
allies had they come down. That is the statement of their com- 
mandant, who had offered, through their friend, to help us get to the 
allied lines, if necessary. 

One of the reasons for the strength of the Bolsheviki at the present 
time — the strengthening of the Bolshekivi at the present time — in my 
opinion, is this : They were on their last legs when the allies came in, 
or were coming in. Lenine was for coming to an understanding with 
the allies. Trotsky said " No, we must arm the German and Austrian 
prisoners, and institute a period of terrorism and go to the front and 
beat back the Czecho-Slavs, and win out that way," because in those 
months it looked as if Germany was winning. So they armed the 
German prisoners and the Austrian prisoners — ^the Austrians not so 
much, because they were more in sympathy with the Russian people— 
and sent them out against the Czecho-Slavs, and that was successful. 

In the revolt at Yaroslav, that took place, I think it was, in July, 
the White Guard held it for three weeks against the Eed Guard, 
without any possibility or outlook of the Red Guard winning out 
until they took the German officers and German prisoners from 
around Moscow and sent them up there ; and as we passed through 
Yaroslav three or four weeks later, the whole north of the town 
looked like a picture of northern Belgium, completely wiped out, 
trees standing there without a leaf, and with houses burned and razed 
to the ground, in the section where the White Guards had been. 


Maj. Humes. Do you know anything about financial support for 
the Bolsheviki coming from any source other than the confiscated 
funds in Russia ? 

Mr. Welsh. I do not know of any from the outside, if that is what 
you mean. 

Maj. Humes. I tliought possibly you might have some knowledge 
of that. 

Mr. Welsh. I do not know of any, but they have done such things 
as the following: At the time we were leaving Moscow they had 
requisitioned all the goods, all the clothing in the dry goods stores, 
and an order was issued that they should requisition all furs — that 
is, furs in stores and storage. It was contemplated that there would 
be a requisition of all fur coats and a redistribution from the 
bourgeoisie to those who needed them, and a week or so later when 
we came out and were held up in Petrograd, I had an oportunity to 
talk with the manager of the English magazine there, and he had 
received his orders that his store had been requisitioned, and an in- 
ventory taken of his entire stock, and the whole thing was under the 
control of the Bolsheviki,, to be sold at their price, and he was to get 
a selling commission. 

Maj. Humes. He was to get a commission? In other words, re- 
quisitioning is confiscation. 

Mr. Welsh. They confiscated goods for which perhaps he would 
have paid 100 per cent, and sold them and gave him 15 per cent as a 


(The witness was sworn by the chairman.) 

Maj. Humes. Where do you reside? 

Mr. Simmons. Hagerstown, Md. 

Maj. Humes. You are connected with the Department of Com- 
merce, are you not? 

Mr. Simmons. Yes, sir; trade commissioner. 

Maj. Humes. Have you been in Russia during the last few years? 

Mr. Simmons. Eighteen months. I just returned 10 days ago. 

Maj. Humes. During what period of time were you in Russia last? 

Mr. Simmons. From July, 1917, up to November, 1918. I came 
out in April to Stockholm through Finland to write reports and 
establish contact by wire with the Department of Commerce in Amer- 
ica, and then went back to Russia. 

Maj. Humes. Will you state to the committee in your own way the 
conditions, as you observed them and found them in Russia during 
that period of time, with reference to the manner in which the 
Bolsheviki Government is controlling things, and the actual condi- 
tions that exist as to their policy in Russia and the economical and 
manufacturing conditions there? 

Mr. Simmons. My work, generally, was study of the lumbering 
industry and the exploitable forests of Russia, in connection with the 
rebuilding of the devastated portions of Europe. It was quite neces- 
sary the lumbermen of this country thought, as well as the Depart- 
ment of Commerce, that we should know where the vast amount of 
the supplies that would be required for that work was to come from. 


If America has to supply all or a great part, it. will draw enomiouslv 
on our forestal resources. If America only had to contribute a 
nominal portion of the demand, it was necessary to know how much 
so that we could make our aiTangements to meet the obligation. For 
the investigation a commission of four men was appointed. Two 
went to countries that would consume the lumber in reconstruction, 
France, Belgium, Italj', and Greece. The other two went to produc- 
ing centers, one to Scandinavia, Norway and Sweden, and one— 
myself — to Russia. 

I entered at AHadivostok on the 1st of July, 1917, and for six or 
seven months worked through Siberia, touching the important centers 
of lumber production and investigating areas where there was a pos- 
sibility of ]Drofitable exploitation of the forests. 

Senator Xelsox. In that connection, before you proceed further 
Avill you indicate where in Siberia you found the lumber areas? 

Mr. Simmons. Where I found the best forests? 

Senator Xelsox. Yes. 

Mr. SiMMOXs. The best forests, in terms of merchantable stands, I 
found in eastern Siberia, the basin of the Amur. This basin, you will 
recall, also embraces northern Manchuria, vast areas of which also 
possess excellent and valuable stands. 

Senator Nelsox. How about on the Usuri? 

Mr. SiMMoxs. That is a part of the Amur. Here the woodlands 
are valuable. 

Senator Xelsox. And along the Sungari Eiver? 

Mr. SiMMOxs. The Sungari runs through northern Manchuria. As 
I told you, the forests are very excellent. 

Senator Xelsox. Is there much timber in the valleys of those 
streams ? 

Mr. SiMMoxs. Yes; and very excellent timber in many places; the 
best that is to be found in the whole of Siberia. The next area going 
west is southeast of Lake Baikal. 

Senator Xelsox. The valley of the Shilka River? 

Mr. Simmons. In the valley of Shilka River the stands are medi- 
ocre. Here exist, as is characteristic of much of Siberia, vast areas 
of swamps. Out of these swamps rise ridges, and on these grow ex- 
cellent timber. Between these ridges the extent of these swamps is 
so great that generally the valley does not afford excellent opportuni- 
ties for exploitation. 

Senator Nelson. Going west, what other points did you strike 
wliere there is good timber ? 

Mr. SiMMOxs. Regions of small valleys the rivers of which eitlier 
have their source or empty into Lake Baikal, especially south and 
southeast of Lake Baikal. 

Senator Xelsox. Then farther west ? 

Mr. SiMMOxs. Farther west, we come next to the valley of the 
Yenisei, where stand the best and most extensive areas of timber 
that are to be found in the whole of central Siberia. 

Senator Xelsox. Is that pine timber? 

Mr. SiiiMONS. Yes, sir ; first pine ; two kinds of pine ; one we call 
Pinus sylvatica, or Scots pine, and the other Pinus cembra, or Kehdr 
pine. The latter is similar to white pine of •ur Lake States — Min- 
nesota, Michigan, and "Wisconsin. This wood is similar in texture 


and grain to white pine, although slightly darker in color. The spe- 
cies perhaps the most predominant is spruce, Picea abovata. Larch 
and fir are other soft woods commonly met with. Birch and alder are 
the most frequent of the hardwoods; neither met with in stands of 
value for lumber production. 

Senator Nelson. Is the spruce the same kind that we have in 
America ? 

Mr. Simmons. The Siberian spruces are, comparing the mechanical 
and physical properties of the woods, not the sam;e species ag 
grown in this country, not as valuable as the Sitka spruce of 
Washington or the spruce of the Appalachian Mountains, usually 
called West Virginia spruce. 

Senator Nelson. How does it compare with the Scandinavian 

Mr. Simmons. The predominent species is the same. 

Senator Nelson. Where did you next strike the belt of timber? 

Mr. Simmons. In western Siberia. Here the situation is ex- 
tremely interesting in that there is an insufficient lumber supply to 
meet the market demand. The reason is that the rivers gravitate to 
the Arctic, and the forest stands are north of the populated centers. 
According to their system of lumbering it is unprofitable to raft 
timber upstream. The market supply comes from the Altai Moun- 
tains down the Irtysh River. By the rotation system of cutting 
timber, conducted according to forestry principles, and therefore 
much ahead of America, not a large enough supply is available from 
areas close to transportation to meet the demands of 8,000,000 people. 

Senator Nelson. Is there not a lot of timber in the valley of 
the Ob? 

Mr. Simmons. There is. There is a lot in the valley of the Ob and 
its chief tributaries. 

But remember that in this region the land area is exceedingly 
vast. The timber stand is not merchantable over all of this vast 
expanse nor over three-fourths of it. The conditions here are similar 
to those that I have told you exist in the valley of the Shilka, ridges 
rising out of swamps like islands, distinctly separated, upon which 
grow stands that are merchantable. 

Senator Nelson. In going across the Ural Mountains, do you strike 
any timber there ; for instance, in the valley of the Kama ? 

Mv. Simmons. Yes ; excellent timber in many localities. 

Senator Nelson. Is it pine timber? 

Mr. Simmons. High grade pine, spruce, larch, and birch. Birch, 
generally, is not merchantable; trees do not grow to proportions 
large enough for saw logs. 

Senator Nelson. Did you examine the territory north of the 
Siberian Eailroad between Perm and Petrograd ? 

Mr. Simmons. Yes. 

Senator Nelson. That country bordering on what I call the Arctic 

region? . » -r. • , 

Mr. Simmons. Yes, sir. In that section of Russia the country 
drains to a considerable extent toward the Caspian Sea, this is the 
upper part of the Volga Basin. The major portion gravitates to- 
ward the Arctic, comprising the valleys of the North Dvina River, 


the Onega, Mezen, Pochora, and Kola Rivers. The divide is in the 
southern part of the country you speak of, Senator Nelson. 

Senator Nelson. Is there not timber around the White Sea, in 
the Archangel region? 

Mr. Simmons. Yes, most excellent ; not in close proximity to Arch- 

Senator Nelson. South of it? 

Mr. Simmons. South from about two to eight hundred miles is 
the region where the best merchantable stands abound. 

Senator Nelson. Is there a large quantity of timber there? 

Mr. Simmons. The separated areas are often very large. Over 60 
per cent of the timber resources of European Russia are in this 

Senator Nelson. That is a region of swamps and timber? 

Mr. Simmons. That is a region of swamps and timber. 

Senator Nelson. Not very well settled, is it? 

Mr. Simmons. Very sparsely. 

Senator Nelson. Not much of a farming country ? 

Mr. SiMaioNS. The only farming is for individual family needs. 
The chief occupation is lumbering. The people live in villages. 

Senator Nelson. That is north of the Siberian Railroad ? 

Mr. Simmons. That is north of the Siberian Railroad; in that 
section you referred to. 

Senator Nelson. Were you up on that new line that they have 
built from St. Petersburg north to the Kola Peninsula ? 

Mr. Simmons. Yes, Senator ; or rather I should say, I was down it. 

Senator Nelson. Well, down it? 

Mr. Simmons. I came from Murmansk down, investigating the 
character of forests and locating, of course, the best timbeiiands 
available in that region of Russia. 

Senator Nelson. Is not that good timber? 

Mr. Simmons. It does not bear comparison to the timberland 
tributary to Archangel. 

Senator Nelson. Taking the extent of the country, there are large 
forests around Lake Onega? 

Mr. SiMjioNS. There are forests not immediately around, but on 
rivers and streams directly flowing into the lake. 

Senator Nelson. And on the other side of Lake Ladoga is the 
situation, generally, similar? 

Mr. Simmons. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. I have understood that was a good timber 
country ? 

Mr. Simmons. It is. Relatively, however, it does not measure up 
to regions around Perm and toward Archangel. 

Senator Nelson. Now, you go on with your story. I was trying 
to get at the timber. _ 

Mr. Simmons. You know the geography wonderfully well. 

Well, as you see, my work in Russia was to investigate lumbering 
and forests. Naturally, this brought me largely in touch with 
peasant villages, and into contact often with the laborers and in 
the woods and at the sawmills. The sawmill industry is the second 
largest manufacturing industry of Russia. 


Senator Nelson. Have they up-to-date sawmills there that com- 
pare with our up-to-date mills in this country ? 

Mr. Simmons. The system of manufacturing is entirely different. 
They use gang frame sawmills. I doubt if you have seen them in 
this country. By one operation the log is sawed into boards, planks, 
or timbers. The band saw on the carriage system used in America, 
taking the log back and forward against the saw, is rarely seen in 
Eussia. The machinery of some of the Russian sawmills is up-to- 
date; in others it is quite primitive. 

In the rural parts I was thrown particularly with peasants and 
laborers working in the woods. When I came into the large civic cen- 
ters, seats of governments, of provinces, I was largely connected with 
officials of the local forestry bureaus, while in big cities and port 
cities I had contact with the exporters and jobbers of lumber and 
lumber associations. 

When I arrived in Siberia the revolution had taken place. Kei'en- 
sky was then in the saddle. The economic conditions in eastern Si- 
beria were very good, compared to what I found them in European 
Russia. Of course, they were not up to normal, because of the 
world's war. People generally were all longing for peace ; and they 
were looking forward with great expectation, as soon as the war was 
over, to the reestablishment of greater economic activity and ex- 
tension of industry, which they anticipated would be very marked. 

I met the Bolsheviki in Irkutsk. 

Senator Nelson. Do you mean by that the Kerensky officials? 

Mr. Simmons. No ; the Bolsheviki. 

Senator Nelson. Or the Lenine people ? 

Mr. Simmons. Yes; the followers of Lenine. 

Senator Nelson. Of Lenine and Trotzliy? 

Mr. Simmons. Yes, sir. 

Senator Nelson. That is a good plan. Call one the Kerensky and 
the other the Bolsheviki. 

Mr. Simmons. Very well, sir. 

Senator Nelson. That is a good distinction. 

Mr. Simmons. When I got there, the Bolshevik revolution had 
started, and I could see the difference at once. I saw the banks and 
stores were being closed, lumber mills not running, business gen- 
erally at a standstill. 

I then became interested, as I saw the revolution directly affected 
my investigation. It started the thought, " Is this revolution going 
to disrupt the lumber industry, and is Russia, the greatest producer 
of export material in the world, going to step out from furnishing 

its normal supply ? " 

I therefore began to regard political movements more closely, i 
soon learned that the Bolsheviks were striving to establish " au- 
trocracy of the proletariat," according to Lenine's pet theory. The 
Russian proletariat represents 95 to 97 per cent of the population, 
whereas the bourgeoisie classes, containing the royalty, the intel- 
ligentsia (influential because of high learning) , and the capitalists, 
rM)resent only from 3 to 5 per cent. You can see that if an au- 
tocracv of the proletariat could be established it would in a large 
measure be quite representative of the Russian Nation. But the 
proletariat is composed of various classes and elements. The peas- 


aiitry is the largest. Jobbers, clerical forces, rank and file of mam- 
professions — clergy, dentists, etc. — students, small manufacturers, 
seamen, soldiers, industrial workers, fishermen, trappers, among all 
of these there Avere demoralized elements. It was these, led by agita- 
tors, that held the reins of government in Irkutsk. 

Senator Wolcott. That is, the demoralized element? 

Mr. SiMJiONS. The demoralized element ; those who heretofore had 
not been thrifty and saving; largely indigent and careless. 

Senator Xelsox. Living by their wits? 

Mr. SiMMOXs. Perhaps so, sir. They did not, in my opinion, repre- 
sent the substantial laboring forces of Siberia. 

So I proceeded westward and arrived next at Krasnoiarsk. Here 
I saw part of a battle between Cossacks and Bolsheviki soldiers. 

Senator Xelsox. Where is that I 

Mr. Siji:moxs. Krasnoiarsk. I confirmed my view that the rank- 
and-file Bolsheviki were the least desirable element as to morality 
and substantial citizenship. In carrying on my investigation I had 
to get in touch with the best of these men, those important among 
employees of the government, who directed and assisted administra- 
tion of forestry organizations in different governments. In my inter- 
views it was evident they were not men of sufficient intelligence to 
qualify for the work in hand, and with little conception of forestry 

Proceeding westward, I came to the cities of Tomsk and Omsk 
and Novo Nikolaievsk. Here was observed the same trend toward 
industrial and economic disintegration as in Irkutsk, which I just 
described, by the closed shops, factories not operating, general busi- 
ness stagnation, all resulting in honest toilers being thrown out of 

I began to speculate that if this state of affairs existed in Siberia, 
it would also be found in Russia. In Perm, Vologda, and Petrograd 
the same conditions were evident, but apparently not so well de- 

Along the trans-Siberian line, proceeding slowly, I had a chance of 
reading the literature that the Bolsheviki were distributing in con- 
nection with their active propaganda ; also the decrets, proclamations, 
apd the public formal announcements of all kinds of the local and 
national authorities. Many of these sounded plausible, aimed to be 
constructive, ostensibly, and in their idealism and promises were 
golden. I could see how people would be attracted, and for the first 
8 to 10 weeks understood their sanguine hopes. But after this time 
disintegration was rapid and I saw the awful results. The modus 
operandi was not in line with theories. They talked ideals but did 
not act ideals. . Practices showed there was decided immorality ; de- 
cidedly, the game was not being played squarely, the people being 
deceived by the leaders. I suspected it from the very beginning from 
what I saw in Siberia. If you will let me, I will read to you a sig- 
nificant admission in that connection. 

This statement was written to me, at my request, by an American 
that it could be given to the American consul general. It reads as 
follows : '■ Bonch Bruevitch, the executor of the acts of all the people's 
commissars, not a strong man, but a close friend of Lenine s, who, 
working in the same office, is able to influence Lenine strongly. A 


power in the government as long as Lenine lives. He states that the 
Bolsheviki have not worked out a code of morals yet, and until they 
do, the end justifies the means. Any lies or dictatorial methods are 
worth using as long as they are in the interests of the working 
classes. A close friend of his says he has no compunctions, lying 
whenever there is an advantabe to be gained from it for the Soviets." 
The movement is immoral, absolutely. 

When the revolution began, those in power were face to face with 
three great problems, as I saw it. They were confronted with the 
question, " What are you going to do with the army and with the 
war ? " The Eussians were then still in the war. " What kind of 
government are you going to form ? " " What are you going to do 
with the land question, and will you stop economic disintegration? " 
You recall what they did with regard to the war. That disgraceful, 
humiliating treaty of peace of Brest- Litovsk is the answer. 

Senator Nelson. They laid down and quit. 

Mr.' Simmons. They laid down and quit ; but in doing that the 
Bolsheviki gained the favor of 10,000,000 soldiers, who wanted peace. 
They wanted' peace because the conditions under which they were 
fighting were unbearable. 

What were they going to do in the formation of a government? 
It was a long debate, face to face with the question, Should they 
make this a political revolution and establish a government as a 
political and social basis together, or should it be solely a social 
revolution, to work out their great aims in life and Lenine's dream, 
" the dictatorship of the proletariat " ? They decided on the last 
course, relegating the political revolution to the background. The